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Show nested quote +On May 09 2014 13:33 DefMatrixUltra wrote:
Short Range Missiles
Change the Guided Missile Precision skill, as well as all associated implants and rigs to affect all subcap missiles
Straight from the horse's mouth.An awful lot of coincidences are happening pertaining to this issue.
He claimed in the recent thread that after he made the latest update to that post, they decided to revert the change. Need to test it.
Edit: Sorry, wasn't him who said it:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4564823#post4564823
"GMP has affected citadel missiles for ages, ever since it was applied to unguided missiles too. If you look carefully you can find a thread quote from Fozzie saying specifically that it wouldn't apply to citadel missiles, but this was omitted in the subsequent patch notes. I always wondered if it was accidental. P"
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So here's the current situation.
-Indications that GMP does NOT apply to Citadel Missiles
1. It doesn't apply to them in the UI (according to some guy, be nice if there was confirmation of this).
2. It doesn't according to pyfa (i.e. the link between the skill and the ammo in the EVE database doesn't show up) [1].
3. The original formulation of the missile changes did not apply GMP to capital missiles.
-Indications that GMP DOES apply to Citadel Missiles
1. EFT says it does [2].
2. Raivi says it does.
3. Some guy on the forums says it does.
4. The actual patch notes do not mention explicitly that capital missiles were exempt from the GMP change (different from number 3 above) so it's apparently supposed to be this way.
[1] It could very well be that the developer uses a different technique now to construct the database - I wouldn't know as I haven't kept a close watch on development since I stopped playing.
[2] I have demonstrated (multiple times) in the past that EFT has had (at least some, unknown how many) rules hard-coded by the developer in direct contrast to the way the actual EVE client works, so my trust in EFT has been pretty damned low since.
Seems (to me) that the simple explanation for these disagreements is that the link in the database between the skill and the capital ammo was overlooked in the past. It honestly could be either way.
Until someone can do some experiments with damage outputs, I guess it depends on who you trust. Unless Raivi insists that those damage outputs are in error due to a UI bug.
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Ive asked kadesh to look into it, he says he will do it later today
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United States7481 Posts
I am testing it tonight as well, if kadesh doesn't get to it first.
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On May 09 2014 23:48 unsniped wrote:
Is minnie still at t4?
barely
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They've been sitting right on the edge the whole time. No reason to donate more LP until they flip more systems.
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On Guided Missile Projection affecting Citadel Torps:
[18:57:53] Lord's Servant > it does
[18:58:04] Lord's Servant > so sayeth the Lord
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http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/reminder-alliance-tournament-xii-commentators-wanted/
Reminder: Alliance Tournament XII Commentators Wanted
The call for player commentators for Alliance Tournament XII is still going strong! If you are interested in joining the Tournament Team in Iceland as a player commentator, read the below information and contact us before the 19th of May, 2014!
As a commentator you'll be on the set discussing the tournament, tactics, teams and talking with developers about EVE live on air. You'll also take shifts in the commentary booth providing live commentary on the matches themselves. You need to know your PvP and you need to know how to keep on talking!
Alliance Tournament XII will take place over four consecutive weekends starting on Saturday, August 16th and ending with the grand finale on Sunday, September 7th. Flights (from all Icelandair destinations) and accommodations are supplied by us. All you need is a little spending money.
So you're interested? The next step is to check this short list and make sure you match what we're looking for!
Can you come out and play? Selected players will need to hold a valid passport (we will require scans to confirm this at a later stage) and be available to fly to Iceland on Wednesday, August 27th and return home on Monday, September 8th.
A sense of humor is a must: commentators will need to be sharp-witted, knowledgeable, presentable and comfortable with talking on camera and into a microphone. To increase your chances of getting through, we highly recommend submitting any pre-made or purpose filmed video you have of yourself (link to a YouTube clip!) as part of your application.
You need to know your PvP: We don't despise industrialists, mission-runners and miners but as this is a PvP tournament and you need to be well versed.
You must be 21+ in order to apply.
If you are interested in taking part, please email us at evetv@ccpgames.com by 23:59 UTC (Eve Time) on Sunday May 18th, 2014 with the following information. Those lucky enough to be selected for the second round of eliminations must be available to attend voice chat interviews on Saturday, May 24th, 2014. The chosen commentators will be announced by June 11th, 2014.
Character and real name.
Date of birth.
Nationality and current country of residence.
Tell us about yourself, both in game and out. Remember what you're applying for and sell yourself to that effect.
Confirm you are available between the 27th of August to 8th of September to fly to Iceland. If you need to book time off work / school please don't do it until we accept you; but please check that it is possible, if there is any doubt here please let us know.
Remember your applying to be on TV! Include any multimedia you think shows you off, all of the people chosen for the last Tournament had sent in video clips/links to YouTube! Applications close on May 18th, so get mailing!
A final note: The Tournament from the perspective of a commentator is an amazing experience. You get to take part in a unique production, fly to Iceland, get a tour around the CCP office and chat to developers like almost no other players will ever get the chance to. But with great power comes great responsibility; planning and promotional shows take place during the weeks up to the final show and you may not be asked to fly to Iceland if you fail to take part or become unavailable during this time!
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Lalalaland34495 Posts
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kwark has to do commentary
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I wasn't aware CCP was still hiring.
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On May 10 2014 06:23 DefMatrixUltra wrote:
I wasn't aware CCP was still hiring.
It appears to be a good career decision, if you work at CCP you get automatic job security with Riot.
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United States43210 Posts
I'd love to do it but the dates conflict with my honeymoon.
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
You need to know your PvP
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I am applying. Will post hilarious entry videos for you all to laugh at. I figure that my deep, and sonorous voice will carry me into a promising role as a very serious space ship commentator.
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United States7481 Posts
On May 09 2014 17:10 DefMatrixUltra wrote:
So here's the current situation.
-Indications that GMP does NOT apply to Citadel Missiles
1. It doesn't apply to them in the UI (according to some guy, be nice if there was confirmation of this).
2. It doesn't according to pyfa (i.e. the link between the skill and the ammo in the EVE database doesn't show up) [1].
3. The original formulation of the missile changes did not apply GMP to capital missiles.
-Indications that GMP DOES apply to Citadel Missiles
1. EFT says it does [2].
2. Raivi says it does.
3. Some guy on the forums says it does.
4. The actual patch notes do not mention explicitly that capital missiles were exempt from the GMP change (different from number 3 above) so it's apparently supposed to be this way.
[1] It could very well be that the developer uses a different technique now to construct the database - I wouldn't know as I haven't kept a close watch on development since I stopped playing.
[2] I have demonstrated (multiple times) in the past that EFT has had (at least some, unknown how many) rules hard-coded by the developer in direct contrast to the way the actual EVE client works, so my trust in EFT has been pretty damned low since.
Seems (to me) that the simple explanation for these disagreements is that the link in the database between the skill and the capital ammo was overlooked in the past. It honestly could be either way.
Until someone can do some experiments with damage outputs, I guess it depends on who you trust. Unless Raivi insists that those damage outputs are in error due to a UI bug.
Tested this today. Setup was:
Phoenix, all4 missile supports+dread4. 3 CN BCS, t1 launchers, t1 scourge torps, unsieged
shooting: Dominix, no sig modifications except for prototype 100mn mwd, t2 dcu only shield mod
Yielding the following numbers:
Raw Volley Damage: 12468
Explosion Velocity: 28
Explosion Radius: 1600
Sig Radius: 2790
Velocity: 790 (didn't bother getting to max speed)
Kinetic Shield Resist: 47.5%
plug that into the missile damage formula and you get expected damage, 404. if GMP doesn't apply to capital torps, that would be eR 2000, expected damage 324.
I took 404 damage, so the tl;dr of it all is that yes, in fact, GMP affects citadel torps. (and secondarily, pyfa does not directly take eve engine info, at least not up-to-date info).
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On May 10 2014 11:42 Antoine wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2014 17:10 DefMatrixUltra wrote:
So here's the current situation.
-Indications that GMP does NOT apply to Citadel Missiles
1. It doesn't apply to them in the UI (according to some guy, be nice if there was confirmation of this).
2. It doesn't according to pyfa (i.e. the link between the skill and the ammo in the EVE database doesn't show up) [1].
3. The original formulation of the missile changes did not apply GMP to capital missiles.
-Indications that GMP DOES apply to Citadel Missiles
1. EFT says it does [2].
2. Raivi says it does.
3. Some guy on the forums says it does.
4. The actual patch notes do not mention explicitly that capital missiles were exempt from the GMP change (different from number 3 above) so it's apparently supposed to be this way.
[1] It could very well be that the developer uses a different technique now to construct the database - I wouldn't know as I haven't kept a close watch on development since I stopped playing.
[2] I have demonstrated (multiple times) in the past that EFT has had (at least some, unknown how many) rules hard-coded by the developer in direct contrast to the way the actual EVE client works, so my trust in EFT has been pretty damned low since.
Seems (to me) that the simple explanation for these disagreements is that the link in the database between the skill and the capital ammo was overlooked in the past. It honestly could be either way.
Until someone can do some experiments with damage outputs, I guess it depends on who you trust. Unless Raivi insists that those damage outputs are in error due to a UI bug. Tested this today. Setup was: Phoenix, all4 missile supports+dread4. 3 CN BCS, t1 launchers, t1 scourge torps, unsieged shooting: Dominix, no sig modifications except for prototype 100mn mwd, t2 dcu only shield mod Yielding the following numbers: Raw Volley Damage: 12468 Explosion Velocity: 28 Explosion Radius: 1600 Sig Radius: 2790 Velocity: 790 (didn't bother getting to max speed) Kinetic Shield Resist: 47.5% plug that into the missile damage formula and you get expected damage, 404. if GMP doesn't apply to capital torps, that would be eR 2000, expected damage 324. I took 404 damage, so the tl;dr of it all is that yes, in fact, GMP affects citadel torps. (and secondarily, pyfa does not directly take eve engine info, at least not up-to-date info).
+ Show Spoiler [A small aside] +
Did GMP's effect show up in the interface? I wonder if that has something to do with pyfa not building the database correctly.
In that case, the situation is very different.
+ Show Spoiler [New lvl 5 Stats] +
Citadel Torpedo
Er = 2250m
Ev = 52.5m/s
Citadel Cruise Missile
Er = 1496m
Ev = 60m/s
Same target considerations as before: towers at 6000m signature, a Nyx at 8000m, a Dreadnought at 2000m.
Towers are the same because their signature is larger than either of explosion radii, and they can't move. The 20% and 25% ROF buffs mean big dps increases against towers.
Supercarriers have the same situation too. Their sigs are so large that they will not be the limiting factors in damage. If the supercap is moving at ~80m/s they'll be taking full damage from both platforms still (mainly due to the signature difference of 8000 vs. ~2000 and ~1500). So they're not losing anything against supercaps, and they're gaining ROF as well. This is, again, an overall big damage buff to these ships.
Now to carriers and dreads, which sit at ~2000m signature with links (slightly smaller with Ragnarok ofc, but I think that's a bit overzealous). If the target sits still, we have the following situation:
2000/2250 = .88 or 88% damage for torps
2000/1496 > 1 so 100% damage for cruise missiles
Citadel torps are thus limited so that they can never deal more than 88% damage to these targets (it's worth noting that you can overcome this with imp crash [don't even need strong] and probably should in most cases - the one bad drawback is the shield boost penalty). With the ROF increase, the damage output will be 1/(.75)*88% = 117% using the "old" torps as a basis of comparison. You can see with GMP in the mix, this becomes an increase in DPS rather than a decrease.
What about these targets on the move? Targets this size can slowboat about ~80m/s.
52.5/80 * 2000/2250 = .58 or 58% damage from torps
[60/80 * 2000/1496]^.8823 > 1 so 100% damage from cruise missiles
Cruise missiles are doing full damage and getting their ROF bonus to dreads and carriers (and really fat battleships and other similar targets). Torps are a little different. Using the "old" torps as a basis, the new ones will (with their ROF buff) be doing 1/.75*58 = 77% EFT DPS. Let's work out what the "old" torps were doing.
30/80 * 2000/1500 = .5 or 50% damage from "old" torps
So even in this niche case where you have a carrier or dread not triaged/sieged, the "new" torps are outperforming the "old" ones by a lot in terms of DPS.
Yes, technically, the dreads are sig-tanking your missiles (they're not taking full damage), but you're doing more DPS to them. Having that cleared up, I don't see what the big fuss is over this issue anymore. The one complaint you can level at this update is that the Phoenix is getting a huge nerf against subcaps. I'm no dread user myself, but I don't imagine that being a deal breaker.
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Enjoy your extra plex Kwark 
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United States43210 Posts
Thank you. I'm taking over a corner of Stain if you're interested. Corp is called Heavy Elements. No inc. Apply and you'll get accepted.
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EPT
