EPTTL Mafia V: The Town Strikes Back - Page 20
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Malongo
Chile3472 Posts
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ketomai
United States2789 Posts
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ketomai
United States2789 Posts
On December 30 2008 07:17 malongo wrote: RoL: You are not playing for the town anyways, nevake and incognito are right you are the village idiot. I was thinking that maybe your right, but then i asked myself: hey if i was jack, would i do a rolecheck first day and roleclaim dt, and then roleclaim jack? HELL NO. I ask the town to lynch RoL. If he turns blue with checker ability (jack, dt) i ask the town to follow with ace and me. Im expandable, and we dont need this guy doing fake claims all game. Let him get his ms paint picture. Malongo, I never said he was the village idiot =P. In fact I think it's highly unlikely because he can be much more blunt if he wanted instant win or to help the town if he was the village idiot. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On December 30 2008 07:17 malongo wrote: RoL: You are not playing for the town anyways, nevake and incognito are right you are the village idiot. I was thinking that maybe your right, but then i asked myself: hey if i was jack, would i do a rolecheck first day and roleclaim dt, and then roleclaim jack? HELL NO. I ask the town to lynch RoL. If he turns blue with checker ability (jack, dt) i ask the town to follow with ace and me. Im expandable, and we dont need this guy doing fake claims all game. Let him get his ms paint picture. Ignore this completely. This was ace's strat in mafia 3 that got folca(a dt) to get raped. Killing the potential blue first, to then guarentee the red kill is retarded as much now as it was then. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
When did nevake ever say I was the Village Idiot? and malongo, you aren't thinking even close to clear. That doesn't make sense at all. I justified all my reasons for my DT role claim, and my Jack role claim. And why would we lynch me, then you and ace? Wasting 3 town kills which are already in short supply? We have to be precise with our kills. We can't sparingly throw away 3 kills pointlessly -_-; what kind of logic is that? | ||
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Malongo
Chile3472 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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Ver
United States2186 Posts
I'm going to sidestep the Ace/Rebirth dilemna and wait and see how Ace (and the mafia) respond. It appears some already have. On to more important things (long term plans): Yes, our goal should be to have a town network with a head spokesperson. However, it must be more than that. This is because of the Silencer. If only the Rockstar is the spokesperson, here's what will happen starting day 2: Firstly, medics can prevent conversion. Secondly, martyrs can block the bomber. Those are two HUGE things that will let us carry a win. From the mafia standpoint, a bomber is a very risky proposition. This is because if a) the bomber itself is a key member you don't want to lose them and b) the bomber loses a mafia member and sets the mafia behind a lot more than you would like. Last game I didn't want to use the bomber and advised against it at almost all times. The martyr makes the bomber seem like crap and we can use that heavily to our advantage to install a second head if the village idiot is dumb and doesn't cooperate. With the inclusion of the mafia doctor we need to be operating more behind the scenes because the mafia cannot know who we know is mafia until it's too late. However, I still ask (and will expand later) that people BE ACTIVE and get out in the open. Even though we aren't lynching on day 1 clues, still work on those clues. There will be a lot to sort through but we shall still have a good situation anyway with lots of information. We need that second head no matter what before day 2. Again I ask for the Rockstar to PM me and for the Village Idiot to come out and make the deal (pm preferably in the open if you want). I don't have enough time now to post a full strategy so I'll finish it later in about 2-3 hrs after I consult with my associates. | ||
mikeymoo
Canada7170 Posts
On December 30 2008 07:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Ignore this completely. This was ace's strat in mafia 3 that got folca(a dt) to get raped. Killing the potential blue first, to then guarentee the red kill is retarded as much now as it was then. Agreed. | ||
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Malongo
Chile3472 Posts
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Mynock
4492 Posts
On December 30 2008 07:18 nevake wrote: No it's not, because the bodyguards protect the rockstar from conversion. Also, converting you, regardless if you're the centerpiece or not, is a huge benefit to the mafia (because you're a jack). So yes, you are at huge risk of being converted. With the rockstar running things, he doesn't need medics on him. I still believe that revealing yourself was a detriment to the town. You're right, the medics will have to babysit you now, but we still can't use you as a staple figurehead because we have to think about what happens in the future. This. Also a few points to make (god, do things start off speedy right at the beginning of all games). There are so many possibilities this game that I'm not even sure I can think of them all. But I'll try to address some that have not yet been addressed. What if RoL is actually the Godfather? If he claims Jack to the checks now, there isn't really a way to oust him out anymore. And here I'd like to address an other, yet again reoccurring issue: TOWN INACTIVITY! Why the hell hasn't the Rock Star role-claimed yet? We absolutely need that role-claim ASAP, else how are we to organize ourselves? By the word of RoL? There are a lot of problems with that here. First one is of course deception, as he can be some sort of Mafia role, because clearly, we're all thinking in past games' terms ATM, assuming no Mafia would do that, because it's not beneficial. Well, it might be beneficial if RoL is the Mole or the Godfather (or maybe even a different possibility, that I can't think of yet), because he can fake his role. What if it was a daring move by Mafia, assuming Town inactivity, since the RS never claimed yet, either. Neither did Ace respond yet. I dunno if this is still a bad time to host a game of Mafia, but it seemed to me at the beginning that things would go differently this time, I'd hate to be disappointed again. OK, back to the possibilities: Yes, RoL could also be the village idiot. But I doubt he is, since there are better tactics for the idiot to win. Which reminds me: Village Idiot, speak up too, please! The best tactic for you is what Ver described above. Cooperate with the Town, and get your MS Paint. Also, there is the very valid possibility of RoL telling the truth and being an actual Jack. In that case, we will most certainly lose a Jack early on, and get virtually no Town organization (as the bulk of it HAS to flow through the Rock Star who is completely immune to conversions or the bomber while he has his bgs). The problem with the Jack is that he can either be converted or bombed taking valuable medic lives with him. We know that Ace is definitely not a Godfather, because he'd have flipped something else than red, so the Godfather and the power of conversion is out there, and we have to deal with it. Honestly, the possibilities in this game are just mind-boggling, I said this already, but I repeat: I'm sure we're not thinking all the possibilities through. This whole case with the role-claiming is somewhat too early and unfortunate and again forces the Town to act very rapidly. I don't know if we absolutely have to lynch someone tonight, but before that, let's analyze EVERY possible permutation there is. There is even a possibility that the real Jack checked RoL who was the Trigger happy guy, and now RoL is claiming Jack to provoke Mafia hits and set them a trap...  And what would that bring them? Well, if Mafia doesn't hit RoL first night, then Ace is probably innocent, if they do, they die, and we know Ace is Mafia too.Or am I thinking about this waaay too much? :/ | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On December 30 2008 07:43 Mynock wrote: There is even a possibility that the real Jack checked RoL who was the Trigger happy guy, and now RoL is claiming Jack to provoke Mafia hits and set them a trap... And what would that bring them? Well, if Mafia doesn't hit RoL first night, then Ace is probably innocent, if they do, they die, and we know Ace is Mafia too.Or am I thinking about this waaay too much? :/ Wouldnt a jack die if he checked RoL and he was trigger happy? or did i misread the role. | ||
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Tensai176
Canada2061 Posts
Also you guys are missing a good clue in Caller's hit. A Mafia "rose from the ground" which is a good piece of imagery to me. | ||
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LucasWoJ
United States936 Posts
On December 30 2008 07:46 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Also guys, the whole "lets have a huge townie alliance" really really really early on is not safe. The mole does not know who he is(unless mafia informed him). This means if we get a huge group too quickly, the mole can give away a shite load more people. If we operate with 1-3 smaller groups, and just speak through 1-2 figureheads(rockstar preferably) the mole cannot do as much damage. And even worse is the Godfather's ability to convert anyone who is not being protected by a medic. If there are more than a small handful of people in this circle (and there already are), one of them is bound to be converted. All his information will be immensely helpful to the mafia. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
I do not want people gathering through me, now that I understand the god damn BGs right, the RockStar if proven legit is ideal for that, he cannot be converted. and yes, the permutations for this are incredible, there are so many possibilities to use, and roles to play in so many different ways. I wanted to counter several things today, If the mafia risked me being the GF and then role claiming, then the mafia would be in a hole. The GF role claiming and role faking skills would work for a day or two, to confuse the town. But chances are we would figure it out by day 3, before conversion becomes possible. Which means the mafia loses an ENORMOUS asset in that. Its a foolish risk, so the chance of me being GF is extremely low. The rockstar inactivity is also bothering me as well, I don't know what to make of it. | ||
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Mynock
4492 Posts
On December 30 2008 07:48 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Wouldnt a jack die if he checked RoL and he was trigger happy? or did i misread the role. Doesn't apply to role-checks. So if you just imagine this kind of scenario, we could have Ace as confirmed green, the Village Idiot and the RS all together, so that they just couldn't all be silenced at once. Btw, I don't like Ver's plan of PM-ing him the RS role. The obvious flaw here, is that the RS would have to be a good player capable of analyzing behaviour, in order to correctly evaluate Ver's alignment. However we all know that Ver is good at that, but what about the RS... He could be anyone, maybe someone who virtually joined TL last week. I believe building our circle around BOTH the Idiot and the RS in the open is a better option. | ||
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Infundibulum
United States2552 Posts
BTW Tensai176 i agree with the "rose out of the ground" line. It caught my eye for sure as I read through the post. Maybe someone that can burrow, like a zerg? Or perhaps he had melded with the ground somehow like a shapeshifter and then rose out in the house. | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7465 Posts
On December 30 2008 07:43 Mynock wrote: There is even a possibility that the real Jack checked RoL who was the Trigger happy guy, and now RoL is claiming Jack to provoke Mafia hits and set them a trap... And what would that bring them? Well, if Mafia doesn't hit RoL first night, then Ace is probably innocent, if they do, they die, and we know Ace is Mafia too.Or am I thinking about this waaay too much? :/ I think the first part of your post is bloody brilliant. I completely overlooked that ROL could be a mousepeice for a jack/dt. I think ROL will die unless the MEDICS (HI GUYS PAY ATTENTION) are smart enough to protect him and that doesn't directly incriminate ace, since ROL has made himself a very early target. Ver, if you are mafia again pm me so I can /suicide okay? (He's just that good.) | ||
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Incognito
United States2071 Posts
On December 30 2008 07:46 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Also guys, the whole "lets have a huge townie alliance" really really really early on is not safe. The mole does not know who he is(unless mafia informed him). This means if we get a huge group too quickly, the mole can give away a shite load more people. If we operate with 1-3 smaller groups, and just speak through 1-2 figureheads(rockstar preferably) the mole cannot do as much damage. Exactly. Which is why a couple pages back I suggested we package our information and distribute it into 3-4 parts. That way nobody gets all the information EXCEPT MAYBE the Rockstar, who can't be converted. I don't know but its only been about 4 hours since the day post? Maybe people are on the other side of the world. Give it time. How much time? Well...CALLER has to tell us that, since ATM we don't know when day 1 ends. GF could role claim since if checked he is seen as ANY ROLE HE WANTS. And if he acts on information he knows, it could be very accurate and misleading. I am inclined to think that RoL is not lying. So we need to test that fact before we do anything else. Regardless whether or not Ace is mafia, by finding out RoL's real ID we can start organizing. If we do nothing we'll lose. But like I said, we can't have one central organization. We have to make sort of like a bureaucracy. | ||
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