EPTDragon Age - Page 14
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Nebula
England780 Posts
On November 12 2009 07:06 Boblion wrote: I guess that won't be enough to beat the first level. I'll install tactics tonight or tomoz and i'll give it a whirl, but honestly i'm not really expecting it to be all that hard, just time consuming. Maybe i'll set up a stream ! | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On November 12 2009 07:12 TheYango wrote: Boblion, have you had a chance to play the game yet? Any impressions? You jumped in for the BG2 discussion, but I'm interested in what you have to say about the game. Nah but i'm following some topics about this game on different forums ( thanks for your great insight btw ) and it seems to be decent. I might get the game when it will be a bit cheaper and when i will have some time to play a lot because when i play an Rpg i need to do long sessions ( Maybe in January after my finals ). Also it seems that the game is out of stock in France and i don't want to dl it ( Never been a big fan of steam or torrents ). | ||
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gameguard
Korea (South)2132 Posts
I think I quit after I went to that added area in tactics mod. I cant recall exactly what the story was for taht but that place was just ridiculous lol. But I mean without tactics mod, I cant see how the gaem could be hard. You still have all those insane spells to abuse for the tough fights, while the enemy does not take full advantage of it. Dragon age is really only hard at the beginning. At least on normal. My rogue main was just pathetic in the beginning and Alister couldnt tank for shit. He would get shot by like 5 archers in the back then debuffed with shatter shot cripple shot sunder armor and drop in like 2 seconds. Morrigan had no crowd control for me exept cone of cold. Once you get better crowd control and tanking, the enemies really cant keep up. | ||
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TarsTarkas
United States169 Posts
On November 12 2009 07:11 StorkHwaiting wrote: I think it's way better the way BG2 was. I don't know about you guys, but RPG to me used to mean role-playing game. What part of a role-play has characters die and then just get up again? That's not realistic at all. BG2 was way more fluffy. Orcs/goblins are supposed to be cannon fodder. They're not supposed to be hard. Beholders are like wtf stuff of nightmares level monsters and so they could kill you with a deathray from their eyes. The fun of roleplaying used to be getting into it and feeling like the fantasy world was real. Not asking yourself "hmm, are the fights challenging and meaningful to me on a consistent basis?" If you want that, then go play streetfighter. That's what a fighting game is. Your characters shouldn't be "respawning" or anything lame like that in an RPG, unless you have a cleric or paladin that's strong enough to call upon their god to bring the dead back to life. And that was usually the point of always wasting a party slot with a crappy cleric. They were a necessity. Nowadays, with all these youngins raised on Diablo and WoW, the RPG genre has turned into some odd kind of level up + get phat loot experience rather than any actual RPG. Sers, getting tired of this idea that RPG means leveling up + keeping your gear. That was a side product of roleplaying as an actual character in a consistent world, not the focus like it is now. On some level you are right about the negatives of dead people simply getting up. However, I think that one of my people dying forcing a reload breaks my immersion way, way more than the idea that my guy was just wounded and now that the battle is over we can take the time to heal him. There are some games that do this better than others - for example, in NWN 2, after a battle all of your dead characters glow and sparkle and then get up. WTF is that? I have not played Dragon Age yet, but I'm positive it does this mechanic more tastefully. I think the more important aspects of an RPG are the immersion in the world (this is why Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines is one of my favorite games ever) achieved, the story, and your character's effect on it. If Bioware did these things well, I won't really have a problem with any of their mechanics. Now if only I was confident my computer could run this game... | ||
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
On November 12 2009 07:43 TarsTarkas wrote: Now if only I was confident my computer could run this game... I was really really worried about this myself, but my computer has surprised me. I'm able to run the game quite fluently on lowest graphics, and it still looks just as pretty as it does on my boyfriend's 360. Anyway, I'm really enjoying this game. I've got my gripes with it of course, but overall it's a lot of fun. Maybe I'm just a sucker for fantasy world fluff, but the game has a great story/atmosphere. Yes the story is a bit generic, but this is an RPG. WILLFUL suspension of disbelief people! Spoilers below: + Show Spoiler + The story is a bit predictable in some aspects, and surprising at others. When I first met that Loghaine fellow I instantly thought "Ok this guy is a bad guy in disguise." As soon as they explained their plan for the battle at Ostragar or whatnot, I thought "Oh he is soooooo going to pull the shit from Braveheart and retreat at the signal..." And then other times the characters are a little more inventive than I thought. Allistair's back story is pretty entertaining, and he's actually got a lot of personality and such. I'm really going to have to go back and play through this game a 2nd time once I've beaten it, and play a completely different character. Right now I'm playing the game as I would myself, trying to keep everyone happy and liking me, while still taking what I want when people aren't looking. I wonder how much the game will change if I make a character who just goes around being as much of a dick as possible and pissing EVERYONE off, lol. That all aside, the level scaling bugs me a lot. Morrigan just asked me to kill Flemeth for her, and I'm only level 10 or so. I almost had it on my first try, and obviously just need to go back to camp and switch out fora different party. When she turned into a dragon I was very much expecting to get horribly rolled and have to come back later when I actually stood a chance against her. Instead it seems that even getting ambushed by a pack of wolves later in the game is still exactly as deadly as it was early on. Quite annoying. | ||
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ejac
United States1195 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + So after I got all the races to help me and went to go see the earl of redcliffe, he called the landsmeet. I just expected there to be a series of missions/quests between that and the end of the game making the whole story a little of a let down. There were a couple of missions in denerim, the landsmeet, and the last battle, but I expected more. Maybe my expectations were too high, but those are my thoughts. I don't know, but I expect the overall story may have been cut short with the focus on additional origin stories. It seems to me that there was much more story in mass effect, or most other bioware games. | ||
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BrTarolg
United Kingdom3574 Posts
When i betrayed my friend at the start (as a magi) i mean, could i have not told the big head magi guy about it or what? I mean, can i just be super mean to all the characters and not have a worry? | ||
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_PulSe_
United States541 Posts
On November 12 2009 08:46 BrTarolg wrote: Does the choices i make when talking to people have much difference? Also is there different plot for different races and stuff? When i betrayed my friend at the start (as a magi) i mean, could i have not told the big head magi guy about it or what? I mean, can i just be super mean to all the characters and not have a worry? You will most definitely have consequences for your actions. Some are worse than others. And yes it matters what you say to people. Im most scenarios you will not get a reward unless you blatantly ask for one. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 12 2009 08:46 BrTarolg wrote: Does the choices i make when talking to people have much difference? Also is there different plot for different races and stuff? When i betrayed my friend at the start (as a magi) i mean, could i have not told the big head magi guy about it or what? I mean, can i just be super mean to all the characters and not have a worry? It doesn't appear to make a difference for the mage's origin. I'm told that that it matters in some of the other origins. But lets face it. It's Bioware. Fake choices are par for the course. Real C&C has always been fairly thin. You should have known that before you bought the game. | ||
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EchOne
United States2906 Posts
And Haemonculus, if you're a complete dick, you might end up killing or exiling the majority of your party members. Fun times. | ||
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gameguard
Korea (South)2132 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10823 Posts
I killed 2 NPC's i could also have in my group. I helped a dragon cult instead of the normal religion and got a new subclass. I sacrificed a Woman instead of searching another way and took a gift from a demon instead of killing it and got a new subclass for it.... And many others which might have consequences or might not. I pretty soon restarted the game on Nightmare because the normal fights were just no challenge... That, sadly, didn't change a bit. Btw: Normal fights, as in BG2 are a cakewalk, IF you have 1 Mage with decent set skills and gave your Tank/Alistair some dexterity/con and use his passive modes right.... I just send him upfront into enemy hordes (party on hold), then close up with my party and lay some waste with my HC (Cone of Cold, Firecone, Stonefist, Earthquake...) and use CC/Single Target dmg with Morrigan and Leliana if needed (Leliana is fail, could also just not use that Partyslot... Will drop her for Sten). The only hard fights are the ones that you get in by surprise (and the enemies come from different directions) or are actually bigger than they should be because you were somehow attacking 2 groups at once (and these groups come from different angles). I like the *get up* thing after combat... Seriously in BG2 you just revived the guys that died after the fight, it took time and added nothing. I never reloaded just because someone died. Maybe in the very beginning it should be handled different, dying was only meaningful in BG2 if it was permanent or if you had no cleric on an appropriate level and had to move to a temple... After that it was just *work*. Btw: I I finished BG2/Tob with Ascension - Draconis was tough.... Tactics and that stuff, while beatable, are just ridiculous... Like some of the fights you get from some NPC's you install... It becomes more of a memory contest than anything else. Btw2: The allseing eye/beholder Quest in BG2 wasn't hard because of the real beholders... The small Gaunths were the bastards that made it so damn hard whiteout buffs against "holding" (or something like that, it has been a while). I went in there for my first Quest with 3 Chars (HC iirc = Fighter -> Cleric, Tashia and Fade) and you get groups of 5 Gaunths which normal attacks "hold" you... VERY FUNNY... But all hail to the Skull Trap. | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
But when you take it for what it is it's not terrible. Sure it's a hilarious hodge podge of ideas stolen directly from popular fantasy, it follows the same progression of every bioware RPG since 2002 (something happens -> go to 4 places -> conclusion) graphically it's not particularly good looking. The gameplay and AI are both decidedly average. But the CRPG genre is so bad now the only games it competes with are those half finished german CRPGS that keep getting released and Bethesda games which are universally bad. It's better than those. I can see why it was dangerously close to being cancelled, and as an attempt to create their own fantasy world and lore, I think it's a failure, since all they've done is poach ideas from books etc without even trying to change them in the slightest. AS far as characters dying, most people would just quick save constantly anyway and reload if something happens, the penalty is so small for death you typically don't bother doing that if someone goes down in this. The last time I actually let a character permanently die was my first playthrough of BG1 | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10823 Posts
The Fade/Daemonic possesion screams Warhammer. The darkspawn seem very tolkien Ork. The setting is pretty standart fantasy but rather low on magic and a little more dark then your avg. fantasy setting. And I'm sure there are myriads of other sings inspired by something I don't know. But it mixes well and the world in itself is very fleshed out and intresting. At the same time it's completly ok to just slap your D&DX icon on a product and just copy & paste the entire history... That does not make much sense to me. It is the spirital succesor to Baldurs Gate 2 because it's totally unlike Gothic, Morrowind, Oblivion (which are crap, all of them . ) and a whole lot better than NWN 1+2. What else would you compare it to? Maybe it's not as good as BG2, but it for sure is better than everything since BG2. Btw: TOB was lacking and was bad compared to BG2. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 12 2009 22:04 Velr wrote: I really don't get all the complaints about the world. I'm actually more disappointed that they ripped plot elements from their previous games than ripping lore elements from throughout the genre. Lore is always somewhat generic, that's not a problem. The problem is when you're recycling plot and characters, and Dragon Age does just that. On November 12 2009 22:04 Velr wrote: At the same time it's completly ok to just slap your D&DX icon on a product and just copy & paste the entire history... That does not make much sense to me. Yes, because the lore is not the problem. The plot and characters are. Setting your game in the Forgotten Realms says nothing about how original or generic your characters and plot are. On November 12 2009 22:04 Velr wrote: It is the spirital succesor to Baldurs Gate 2 because it's totally unlike Gothic, Morrowind, Oblivion (which are crap, all of them . ) and a whole lot better than NWN 1+2. What else would you compare it to? Maybe it's not as good as BG2, but it for sure is better than everything since BG2. Uh, disagree. Gothic is one of the few successful implementations of actual non-linear design in RPGs. NWN2's original campaign is mediocre, but Mask of the Betrayer is arguably the best-written RPG since Planescape: Torment. The thing is, they didn't need to *hype* it as the spiritual successor if it wasn't going to live up to the hype. Just call it a new IP and leave it at that ("Bioware's new RPG" carries enough weight as is). All the "old-school" hype about Dragon Age amounted to nothing. As the comparisons to older RPGs have shown, there is nothing "old-school" about Dragon Age's design. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10823 Posts
Your right on the linearity stuff tho, that was pretty sweet. I heard about NWN2's addon, but i never played it because i never saw it on the shelf, to bad. Btw: NWN1's first addon also was much better than the original iirc... Why don't they do it properly from the get go?... Thing is, at first NWN1 was marketed as the spiritual follower of BG2, it wasn't... Not in the least. NWN2 was closer but still far, far away.... And NWN2's engine was HORRIBLE, Dragon Age 2 runs better on my computer than NWN2, which has probelms if i scroll fast in the city (zoomed out).. I run DA2 on max. I enjoyed NWN2, it was not staggering but finally there was something that at least a little bit felt like BG2 - Dragon Age is way closer to that. What Dragon Age lacks a bit, from what ive seen, is the *exploring* of BG2... BG2 had damn many buildings you could just enter... Some had nothing in them... Some had enemys... Some had damn hard enemies... Some had decent loot whiteout a fight at all. Thats the only thing i feel is really lacking, if a house is not needed for a quest, you can't get in. Character recycling? Who exactly? I haven't truly recognised any till now (played BG2, Tob, PS:T, Kotor 1+2, NWN2..). Mainplot: Didn't make it far, restarded after finishing the first Major quest and wiating for the weekend for some serious play  . | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 13 2009 00:07 Velr wrote: Thing is, at first NWN1 was marketed as the spiritual follower of BG2, it wasn't... Not in the least. NWN2 was closer but still far, far away.... And NWN2's engine was HORRIBLE, Dragon Age 2 runs better on my computer than NWN2, which has probelms if i scroll fast in the city (zoomed out).. I run DA2 on max. I enjoyed NWN2, it was not staggering but finally there was something that at least a little bit felt like BG2 - Dragon Age is way closer to that. NWN2 was done by Obsidian, and it's pretty clear that they have a very different design philosophy in their games from Bioware (compare KotOR 1 and 2). NWN2 wasn't meant to succeed BG2, and it does well for what it is. The reason the engine was crap was because they tried to shove a bunch of modern effects into the NWN1 engine, which it clearly wasn't designed for. On November 13 2009 00:07 Velr wrote: Character recycling? Who exactly? I haven't truly recognised any till now (played BG2, Tob, PS:T, Kotor 1+2, NWN2..). I'll admit that this isn't as bad in Dragon Age as in Bioware's other titles. Still, there are some pretty obvious holdovers. Alistair is still your white-knighting first companion (in the vein of Carth and Kaiden--Anomen does the white-knighting, but isn't one of your first companions), it just feels more natural because he's actually a white knight, and doesn't sound like some silly high-schooler when he's romancing a female PC. Shale is HK-47. There shouldn't need to be much explaining to do once you get him. Morrigan feels a lot like Viconia, particularly once you start to work your way into the relationship stuff: + Show Spoiler + She even does the same "we shouldn't do this/I'm not worth your time" talk that Viconia does toward the end of her romance dialogues. A lot of what Loghain does as the plot advances is also reminiscent of Sarevok. There's more, but those 4 are what came to me off the top of my head. On November 13 2009 00:07 Velr wrote: Mainplot: Didn't make it far, restarded after finishing the first Major quest and wiating for the weekend for some serious play .It's not just the main quest. The real story-taking is apparent when the main quest from one of their other games is a side-quest here. If you've done Ostagar, then it should be pretty apparent that it's basically the Endar Spire all over again, with elements of the initial Sarevok encounter in BG1. And if you've reached the world map, you should know full well why I keep calling the main quest "collecting pieces of the Star Map". I don't understand why Bioware constantly sticks to the "go-to-4-places-and-fetch-4-things" structure of main quests. They did it in KotOR, they did it multiple times in NWN. And they do it again in Dragon Age. Would it hurt to vary the plot structure a bit in different games? | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10823 Posts
I don't know about the Dwarfs/Elves yet but the other two places are just like: You enter, shit hits the fan, you solve. That’s a little *simple* (I so knew what would happen in the Magetower right as I saw that you can/have to go back there...). What would have been better - you NEED an army so you have to visit the places anyway.: Redcliff-Castle -> Leave it as it is. Temple -> fully optional (and harder!) but you get hints that you might be able to save the Lord. Mage Tower -> Find first Enchanter in "the Fade" and the main quest would have been completed. Freeing or plundering the whole tower? Optional (and harder!). Btw: Is there something in the Basement? Didn't try/check that. Iirc the Magetower was pretty small anyway compared to Redcliff/Temple (with all the travelling to Denerim, Village and stuff... The temple itself felt a little to big for me) A little more freedom just would give the game a better feel there are also to many meaningless fights (the full magetower from entry to the top has maybe 2 enemy groups that are a little challenging - if you just charge them, I hope this is better on nightmare).... So this enemies explode after you kill them? Make it hurt, or leave it. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 13 2009 00:58 Velr wrote: Mage Tower -> Find first Enchanter in "the Fade" and the main quest would have been completed. Freeing or plundering the whole tower? Optional (and harder!). Btw: Is there something in the Basement? Didn't try/check that. The basement is related to a sidequest. You don't enter, but the door is relevant. On November 13 2009 00:58 Velr wrote: A little more freedom just would give the game a better feel there are also to many meaningless fights (the full magetower from entry to the top has maybe 2 enemy groups that are a little challenging - if you just charge them, I hope this is better on nightmare).... So this enemies explode after you kill them? Make it hurt, or leave it. + Show Spoiler + I think the Circle Tower was intentionally combat-light given the adventures in the Fade. IMO if they wanted to make the Tower more interesting, they should have expanded on the puzzles in the Fade. I was especially disappointed at the point where you rescue your party members. All you get is a meaningless dialogue and an easy fight? IMO they could have really done some expanding on convincing your party members that they're in an illusion and that they should leave. | ||
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