I searched and saw there was no topic on this game yet. With this many BG fans out here and people in general looking for good games to play, I think a lot of people could be interested in this game.
Basically Bioware themselves call this the spiritual successor to the BG series. This means you will have a party of 5 including yourself. You will have full control over the four other party members (comparable to BG and not like for instance Mass Effect). Instead of typing out everything however I think it is easier and more fun to throw some links in.
Another interview at 1UP with one entire new screenshot! That's right, one whole new screenshot!: + Show Spoiler +
http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3172010
I haven't been this excited by a game since pretty much forever (yes I am more excited by this than Starcraft 2, sue me). This game has been in development for a long time, I believe they announced this over five years ago. I'm getting the collector's edition as soon as it releases. Anyone else here looking forward to this game as much as I am?
I am not that hyped about it, but mostly because I haven't really put myself into it. I will definatly get it when it comes out though.
I really should read more about it though! Bioware RPG's are soo often win. The only thing I fear I might miss is long detailed descriptions of items/spells/ect. Don't see that as much in newer RPG's sadly.
(for the record, I'm more hyped about SC2 than this, don't sue me)
Yeh, been following this game for a while now, really excited. A decent rpg with dialogue. ( fuck off fallout 3, you travesty ) Hope they don't decide to dumb the game down because it's being ported to consoles though. Well known fact that console gamers are idiots =)
Omg hadn't even heard of this, seems absolutly great. I almost swooned at the "Origins symbolizes Biowares return to its roots" part lol. Only thing that makes me suspicious is that fact that all dialogue uses voice recordings. That didn't work out so well for fallout 3 now did it :/
If is as good than BG i would gadly buy this game. But i highly doubt ... Fuck you casual gamers... You ruined the industry. Now games are designed for < 15 years old people or mentally challenged.
On December 19 2008 21:58 Boblion wrote: If is as good than BG i would gadly buy this game. But i highly doubt ... Fuck you casual gamers... You ruined the industry. Now games are designed for < 15 years old people or mentally challenged.
Unfortunately, the casual gamer market is >>>> than the hardcore market. (eg. "mommy, I waaaant it, wah") And we all know that money makes the industry go round.
Kinda interesting actually. Game companies made the "good" games in days past because the audience back then was almost solely the hardcore. As games become more and more mainstream, I doubt we'll be reliving the glory days of game development. Of course, once in a while, both a casual and hardcore appealing game comes out (if that's possible...)
Also it's four party memebers including you (quote from FAQ below); you can, of course, control all four and zoom out into the isometric view which is FUCKING AWESOME.
5.01: How many party members can I have? (Back to Top) The player can have up to four active party members, including the main hero. The number of followers depends on the player’s choices throughout the game.
On December 19 2008 20:06 Phearlock wrote: I really should read more about it though! Bioware RPG's are soo often win.
Bioware RPGs haven't been "win" since Baldur's Gate II.
On December 19 2008 23:34 Fwmeh wrote: I really want to hope, but I feel that the age of good cRPGs is over. Obsidian broke my heart T_T
How?
Mask of the Betrayer is probably the closest thing to a good classic CRPG in the last 5 years from a mainstream developer. It's well written, and actually has player choices which have some consequence on how events play out (which is more than can be said of KotoR or the other Neverwinter Nights stuff). At the very least, Obsidian deserves more credit than Bioware or Bethesda for trying to please the fans of older CRPGs (trying, and maybe failing, but trying nonetheless).
I agree with everyone else about how CRPGs coming into the mainstream are becoming less and less amazing.
Really unfortunate that BioWare have sold themselves into EA slavery... which means that this very likely great game will be defiled by the brain-damaged DRM schemes that EA likes so much.
I still want to give Mass Effect a try, but I am really torn. On one hand, I like to buy games that deserve that to express my support for the developers, so I wouldn't like to pirate it, but on the other hand, I am not going to let this SecuROM bullshit to fuck with my PC.
Ugh...after reading this I'm really concerned. It seems like they're just recycling NPCs from Baldur's Gate and KotoR. From what I could read:
Loghain is a war hero and the leader of the armies of Fereldan. He's a very complex character with deep convictions. How you choose to interact with him will be up to you, but I will say that you'll have to make some pretty important decisions involving Loghain that could create a turning point in the story. The writers will kill me if I say any more than that.
Carth?
Sten is a warrior of the Qunari race and has been trained as a soldier since birth (the Qunari are always at war). He's a very stoic and disciplined man with a strong code of honor, so how he treats others depends on whether or not they have his respect, which he doesn't give easily.
Canderous?
Morrigan can indeed be a powerful ally, and I think players will find her shape-shifting abilities a powerful asset in combat. She's power-hungry and selfish, so having her in your party with other members who have more-benevolent agendas and moral codes can result in some "tense" party dynamics. You don't have to have Morrigan in your party, but she does add an awesome dynamic to the player and party relationships.
Viconia?
Some have also told me that the other NPCs mentioned have similarities to several previous Bioware NPCs, like Jaheira, Aerie, Imoen, and Jan. I can see the connection, but it isn't as blatant as these 3 (maybe because I didn't consider Imoen's commentary that amusing).
I was pretty disappointed when they said 4 players only, battles are less epic with smaller party members, not to mention less party interaction/side stories. It's one of the reason why I disliked NWN and its subsequent sequels. Not having a good isometric camera view also sucked. Also the voice acting crap in modern CRPGS suck, Fallout3 is a good example of how the same voice actors were used for numerous characters. Having text instead helps more with immersion.
Anyway rants aside, I know we can never go back to the old days and use those methods in modern games. I heard Atari might start making a BG III, maybe it will be great. It better be or they will have hell to pay with the hardcore BG fans.
For the spiritual successor to those old isometric CRPGs with heavy party interaction, look forward to this game, " The Broken Hourglass," in development by the creators of various popular mods for the BG series.
Oo At first I thought this was going to be about the Taek-Bang Era
But more or less this:
On December 19 2008 20:21 Nebula wrote: Yeh, been following this game for a while now, really excited. A decent rpg with dialogue. ( fuck off fallout 3, you travesty ) Hope they don't decide to dumb the game down because it's being ported to consoles though. Well known fact that console gamers are idiots =)
The reason BG2 was so good was not graphics, but everything else. Story, music, gameplay (you can customize race, class, spells) and the choices you made did make things matter. I just hope newer gaming industries realize that good graphics does not make a good game.
Mother fuckin' bump for the game of the year, Listen up bitches there's plenty to fear, A mystical land that is chock full o' dragons, Large bearded men straight gulping from flagons, Get it on the PC for the user-made content, Fuck man just buy it you don't need my consent, Pre-order from Amazon to save yourself ten bucks, But then you're in trouble if it actually sucks, Minimal chance of that happening, though, Bioware's the champs comin' with the sick flow, They're the best developer in the world, you see, Even you Blizzard nut-huggers have got to agree.
I can't wait to get my hands on this. Not sure my pc can handle it, but if not i'm buying some new stuff for it^^ I've deliberately avoided reading too much about it other than bioware and baldurs spiritual successor. That was plenty to sell me tbh. Hope it lives up to the hype.
/prepared to be disappointed ( BG2 scenario already disappointed me a bit back then even if it is one of my favourite games because gameplay with mods is just awesome. )
Maybe i'm just too old for what video games have become
edit: jesus those trailers with crap-metal are so lame
On October 27 2009 02:29 Boblion wrote: /prepared to be disappointed ( BG2 scenario already disappointed me a bit back then even if it is one of my favourite games because gameplay with mods is just awesome. )
Maybe i'm just too old for what video games have become
edit: jesus those trailers with crap-metal are so lame
Same here.
Regardless of how good the game ends up being, the development of this game has been enshrouded in so much money-grubbing and PR bullshit that it's absurd. Advertising the game's sex scenes as part of the trailers is just awful. Way to cater to the lowest common denominator.
There's an expansion that comes out the day of release? Why couldn't they just have included it in the game instead of making you pay another x dollars for it?
The expansion comes free with any new copy of the game. L2Research what you criticize or your bound to look like a whiner.
It has received nothing but exemplary reviews, looks amazing from the trailers, and features a GORGEOUS orchestral/symphonic score. The metal music was something new, and was a placeholder until they had the score written. Looks like Bioware has done an outstanding job and I look forward to the game.
On October 27 2009 05:09 mrtspence wrote: The expansion comes free with any new copy of the game. L2Research what you criticize or your bound to look like a whiner.
Wrong. The Warden's Keep content is only free for the Digital Collector's Version. Boxed Collector's versions and regular versions have to shell out $7 for it.
"L2Research what you defend or your bound to look like a fanboy."
Yeah, I know someone's going to give me the spiel about it only being $7 dollars and there being nothing wrong with developers wanting to make money and whatnot. Still, it's the idea of it. There was a time when people included stuff like that in games because it just made the game cooler, not because they could make an extra $7 off each customer and whatnot. If it was done by release, it went into the game, plain and simple. There was no "oh, we have enough in the game already, lets charge them for anything else on top of that."
On October 27 2009 05:31 TheYango wrote: Yeah, I know someone's going to give me the spiel about it only being $7 dollars and there being nothing wrong with developers wanting to make money and whatnot. Still, it's the idea of it. There was a time when people included stuff like that in games because it just made the game cooler, not because they could make an extra $7 off each customer and whatnot. If it was done by release, it went into the game, plain and simple. There was no "oh, we have enough in the game already, lets charge them for anything else on top of that."
You're damn right someone's going to. You and Boblion are a couple negative nancies. Vote with your wallets. The advertising campaign for Knights of the Old Republic, if you'll recall, portrayed the game as some sort of lightsaber-wielding action adventure, basically every ten-year-old's fantasy. Every men's body wash or fragrance or spray uses sex to sell its product. What does that tell you? It must work. You advertise to the lowest common denominator because those are the people who are swayed by advertising. We're smarter than that. We do research before we part with our hard-earned money.
And what does your research tell you? It tells me that the game is very likely to appeal to me. Experience tells me that, too. I've enjoyed Bioware's past titles. The game features a nice, long campaign and ships with a toolset, which means plenty of user-created content. Even if I "only" get 20 hours out of it -- that's to say, I don't finish it -- is that worth $47? To me, absolutely. Maybe it's not to you. If that's the case, don't buy it. The same goes for the DLC. Capitalism is a wonderful thing. If people object to the DLC and don't purchase it, EA and Bioware will adapt to produce content that people will purchase. If they can't do that in an economically feasible way, they won't offer it at all.
The same thing is going on with Modern Warfare 2. So many PC gamers are indignant over the $60 price tag and lack of dedicated servers. But you know what? I'll bet that the PC version of Modern Warfare 2 sells better than the original. If it doesn't, you can be damn sure that Activision and Infinity Ward will investigate the reasons why and adapt those concerns into requirements for Modern Warfare 3. Capitalism and, indeed, greed give us so many wonderful things that griping about a couple niggling annoyances that you're in no way obligated to indulge makes you sound incredibly whiny and petty, like the guy who bitches about a delicious restaurant not offering free refills on soft drinks. If it bothers you that much, go somewhere else. Gaming is a lucrative industry. There's always something else to play.
The concept of DLC is fine as long as it provides enough content to justify the cost. The problem is that Bioware seems to be missing the point of DLC. Extra content is supposed to prolong the life of a game after it has been released. Releasing it alongside the main game does not help do that and only comes off as cheap way of making extra cash.
I personally am looking forward to this title. I enjoyed Mass Effect a great deal and this seems like a fantasy equivalent. I also like the fact that the elves are put into a less stereotypical role. Having said that, though, I must admit that I never got to play some of the older legendary CRPG`s. I was considering it, however.
As for the metal music, I dislike the song they used (although the part that they use at the end of each trailer actually comes off rather well). That said, I do not mind if game developers use unorthodox music in a game. Sudden Strike, for example, was by itself a unimpressive WW2 strategy game, but the partially electronic (yes, electronic) soundtrack they used was suprisingly good.
On October 27 2009 07:30 DJEtterStyle wrote:Capitalism is a wonderful thing.
I do not want to derail the topic. All I will do in response to this is quote Nightfreeze`s comment about EVE Online:
Beneath its gilded beauty, though, there lies a poorly designed game which rewards the greedy and violent, and punishes the hardworking and honest; and if you think about it, that's a good representation of capitalism.
On October 27 2009 07:30 DJEtterStyle wrote: You're damn right someone's going to. You and Boblion are a couple negative nancies. Vote with your wallets. The advertising campaign for Knights of the Old Republic, if you'll recall, portrayed the game as some sort of lightsaber-wielding action adventure, basically every ten-year-old's fantasy. Every men's body wash or fragrance or spray uses sex to sell its product. What does that tell you? It must work. You advertise to the lowest common denominator because those are the people who are swayed by advertising. We're smarter than that. We do research before we part with our hard-earned money.
The game being advertised to the lowest common denominator implies to some degree that it is also being designed for the lowest common denominator. This is why it concerns me. It doesn't mean I'll definitely dislike the game, but it makes me a bit cautious about dropping 50 dollars for it.
On October 27 2009 07:30 DJEtterStyle wrote: And what does your research tell you? It tells me that the game is very likely to appeal to me. Experience tells me that, too. I've enjoyed Bioware's past titles.
Incidentally, those very two things are what turn me off to Dragon Age. Nevertheless, to each his own.
On October 27 2009 07:30 DJEtterStyle wrote: Capitalism is a wonderful thing.
That depends entirely on who you're saying its a wonderful thing for. Tom Phoenix hit the nail on the head.
On October 27 2009 07:30 DJEtterStyle wrote: Capitalism is a wonderful thing.
That depends entirely on who you're saying its a wonderful thing for. Tom Phoenix hit the nail on the head.
This is where your arguments both fall totally flat. People who gripe about capitalism are the ones who never stop to consider all the things it does for us. That computer you're typing away on right now? How fast and inexpensive would it be if, instead of awful, money-grubbing companies designing it and competing for your dollars, we all paid a yearly computer tax and were issued standardized machines from the government, who designed all components and owned the means of production? We'd be lucky to be using fish bowl CRT monitors with Pentium IIs. Would you prefer government-run cafeterias or the plethora of delicious, inexpensive food options we have today? How about a government-made car? It'd make a Kia Rio look luxurious -- and it'd cost three times as much. When businesses compete, you win. It's always been true.
Yes, capitalism encourages some unpleasant competitive practices, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised to see you focusing on the negative. If you want to walk around the world with blinders on, that's your business. Just don't be surprised when, from time to time, someone issues you a reality check, which I'm sure you'll roundly ignore.
On October 27 2009 07:30 DJEtterStyle wrote: Capitalism is a wonderful thing.
That depends entirely on who you're saying its a wonderful thing for. Tom Phoenix hit the nail on the head.
This is where your arguments both fall totally flat. People who gripe about capitalism are the ones who never stop to consider all the things it does for us. That computer you're typing away on right now? How fast and inexpensive would it be if, instead of awful, money-grubbing companies designing it and competing for your dollars, we all paid a yearly computer tax and were issued standardized machines from the government, who designed all components and owned the means of production? We'd be lucky to be using fish bowl CRT monitors with Pentium IIs. Would you prefer government-run cafeterias or the plethora of delicious, inexpensive food options we have today? How about a government-made car? It'd make a Kia Rio look luxurious -- and it'd cost three times as much. When businesses compete, you win. It's always been true.
Yes, capitalism encourages some unpleasant competitive practices, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised to see you focusing on the negative. If you want to walk around the world with blinders on, that's your business. Just don't be surprised when, from time to time, someone issues you a reality check, which I'm sure you'll roundly ignore.
I don't really see how there is competition nowadays. There are only a couple of developers in the industry and they are all huge. Basicly the video game market is looking like an oligopoly ( =/=! competition ). I think your post was quite funny because in the 90's there were actually lot of different and small developers and tons of small studios. That was real competition. For sure most of the games produced were bad but there were also a couple of gems and each niches of gamers could find its own masterpiece and cult games. Nowadays the old fans of Black Isle don't have too much choices... it is sad when you have to play mods only ( or almost ) just because you can't find some good recent games :/ ( thank you casualisation )
Maybe this game will be good but so far the trailers look terrible. Why the fuck are they saying that it is the "new BG" ? It looks like a gore version of Dungeon Siege >.<
On October 27 2009 08:35 DJEtterStyle wrote: This is where your arguments both fall totally flat. People who gripe about capitalism are the ones who never stop to consider all the things it does for us. That computer you're typing away on right now? How fast and inexpensive would it be if, instead of awful, money-grubbing companies designing it and competing for your dollars, we all paid a yearly computer tax and were issued standardized machines from the government, who designed all components and owned the means of production? We'd be lucky to be using fish bowl CRT monitors with Pentium IIs. Would you prefer government-run cafeterias or the plethora of delicious, inexpensive food options we have today? How about a government-made car? It'd make a Kia Rio look luxurious -- and it'd cost three times as much. When businesses compete, you win. It's always been true.
Yes, capitalism encourages some unpleasant competitive practices, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised to see you focusing on the negative. If you want to walk around the world with blinders on, that's your business. Just don't be surprised when, from time to time, someone issues you a reality check, which I'm sure you'll roundly ignore.
First of all, your point of view is entirely that of average, lowest common denominator consumer, that shares the average preferences. Does capitalism benefit the majority? Yes. I never implied that it didn't. But to imply that it benefits everyone is flat out dreaming. The majority promoting computers hurt the people who preferred typewriters. The majority promoting cars inevitably hurt the people who preferred horse-drawn carriages. Not everyone benefits from capitalism, and that should be obvious.
Secondly, you're fallaciously creating a socialist/communist system as the only reasonable alternative to a capitalist system. No one in this thread even implied that extreme, and there's a whole spectrum of economic systems between complete free-market capitalism (which doesn't characterize the video games market, or any market in the United States for that matter, anyway), and communism. Not to mention there are other factors that lead to entirely different means of distribution.
I also never said that there is a better alternative to capitalism in the video games market. I'm just pointing out that there are people who are left unsatisfied by it, and to say they shouldn't be unsatisfied is silly. People have different preferences. Saying that they'd all be better off following the preferences of the majority is stupid.
Capitalism is such that those with less common preferences have less options available to them. Less options means that those people will be less happy. What's more, preferences are subjective: you can't say that the guy complaining about soft drink refills in a fancy restaurant has the "wrong" preferences. They're opinions; your's just happen to be more in line with the status quo. That guy being unhappy doesn't mean the system is dysfunctional, but it also doesn't mean his opinion is invalidated. If I don't think Dragon Age is worth the money when I've seen my share of it, I won't buy it. You're correct about that. That doesn't mean I have to like the fact that it doesn't fit my preferences.
Strictly speaking, in a capitalist society, it is in my interest to express my preferences in a public venue, and to try and sway people toward my preferences. The former makes my preferences known to the outside world, and the latter potentially increases the fraction of consumers that match my preferences, thus increasing the potential number of suppliers that would cater to those preferences.
This is sort of getting to a massive derail so if you think this discussion is worth continuing, we probably ought to do it via PM.
On October 27 2009 07:30 DJEtterStyle wrote: Capitalism is a wonderful thing.
That depends entirely on who you're saying its a wonderful thing for. Tom Phoenix hit the nail on the head.
This is where your arguments both fall totally flat. People who gripe about capitalism are the ones who never stop to consider all the things it does for us. That computer you're typing away on right now? How fast and inexpensive would it be if, instead of awful, money-grubbing companies designing it and competing for your dollars, we all paid a yearly computer tax and were issued standardized machines from the government, who designed all components and owned the means of production? We'd be lucky to be using fish bowl CRT monitors with Pentium IIs. Would you prefer government-run cafeterias or the plethora of delicious, inexpensive food options we have today? How about a government-made car? It'd make a Kia Rio look luxurious -- and it'd cost three times as much. When businesses compete, you win. It's always been true.
Yes, capitalism encourages some unpleasant competitive practices, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised to see you focusing on the negative. If you want to walk around the world with blinders on, that's your business. Just don't be surprised when, from time to time, someone issues you a reality check, which I'm sure you'll roundly ignore.
Isn't one of the supposed virtues of capitalism the consumer's right to complain and take their dollars somewhere else, thus forcing the market to respond and improve? There is obviously a good bit of dissatisfaction among gamers here that the gaming industry is a shell of its former self (I'm one of these people). A smart capitalist would realize this and try to find a business model that meets these consumers' needs. Right now, there are not enough companies in the gaming industry doing that. A demand with inadequate supply. Sounds to me like capitalism operating under maximum efficiency.
Instead of ranting about what the industry would be like without capitalism (the definition of which you are making hyperbolic) you should use your love of capitalism to propose a business model that would satisfy them. Otherwise, you have no business touting the glories of said capitalist system, as you are not addressing their criticism of it correctly. Rather, you are almost verging on fanboy territory with your angry defense of an obviously underperforming mechanism. And that is most definitely un-capitalist.
I don't mean to offend anybody but seriously, anybody who doesn't think Dragonage will be a great game is a fool.. . It's an rpg developed by Bioware and they have proven time and time again that all their games become blockbusters similiar to blizzard games. If anything you can trust them even more because they only make rpgs and you pretty much know what you get compared to blizzards wider range of genres.
Of course it will ultimately come down to taste HOW much you will like the game, but as long as you like rpgs there is absolutley no question that you WILL get your moneys worth out of this game.
On October 28 2009 03:13 Substandard wrote: I don't mean to offend anybody but seriously, anybody who doesn't think Dragonage will be a great game is a fool.. . It's an rpg developed by Bioware and they have proven time and time again that all their games become blockbusters similiar to blizzard games. If anything you can trust them even more because they only make rpgs and you pretty much know what you get compared to blizzards wider range of genres.
Of course it will ultimately come down to taste HOW much you will like the game, but as long as you like rpgs there is absolutley no question that you WILL get your moneys worth out of this game.
On October 28 2009 03:13 Substandard wrote: I don't mean to offend anybody but seriously, anybody who doesn't think Dragonage will be a great game is a fool.. . It's an rpg developed by Bioware and they have proven time and time again that all their games become blockbusters similiar to blizzard games. If anything you can trust them even more because they only make rpgs and you pretty much know what you get compared to blizzards wider range of genres.
So my preferences make me a fool?
So I didn't think KotOR, NWN, and Mass Effect were as big as they were made out to be. There are plenty of people who thought Diablo 2, Warcraft 3, and WoW were no good. Blockbusters don't imply they'll meet everyone's criteria for a good game. There's absolutely no linkage there.
So I didn't think KotOR, NWN, and Mass Effect were as big as they were made out to be. There are plenty of people who thought Diablo 2, Warcraft 3, and WoW were no good. Blockbusters don't imply they'll meet everyone's criteria for a good game. There's absolutely no linkage there.
No they don't. As you say everybody has their own taste and might enjoy a game to a different degree.
Still you need to be able to look at a game objectivley. Personally I didn't like WoW that much, it's just not my type of game. Even so imho it's undeniably a great game in it's genre, as are Diablo 2 and Warcraft 3. Same with Dragonage, it's not really a very innovative game, you pretty much know what to expect gameplaywise. There simply is no other RPG with such a deep storytelling and character development. If you end up not liking it i'd go as far as to say you just don't like this kind of game.
About Mass Effect and Kotor; you really didn't get your moneys worth out of those games? I'm not saying that there aren't things that Bioware could have done better (because there are imho quite a lot), but still both games were great and easily worth their price.
Bioware was an amazing company from 1998-2001. After that they slowly made worse and worse products. While KOTOR, Mass Effect, Jade Empire and NWN1+2 were okay games, they aren't even comparable to the Baldur's Gate series. While I look forward to this release, I also frown upon the fact that there are no good games being made anymore. The best RPG made in the past few years - The Witcher - wasn't even developed by Bioware.
Also, from the looks of it, the system requirements seem to be quite high. I honestly wonder whether my 3700+ AMD processor can run this well...
On October 28 2009 04:28 Shauni wrote: Bioware was an amazing company from 1998-2001. After that they slowly made worse and worse products. While KOTOR, Mass Effect, Jade Empire and NWN1+2 were okay games, they aren't even comparable to the Baldur's Gate series. While I look forward to this release, I also frown upon the fact that there are no good games being made anymore. The best RPG made in the past few years - The Witcher - wasn't even developed by Bioware.
Also, from the looks of it, the system requirements seem to be quite high. I honestly wonder whether my 3700+ AMD processor can run this well...
I agree wholeheartedley that the baldurs gate series is the best rpg series ever by far. No other game ever gave me that many hours of entertainment. But times have changed and graphics standards have risen and it simply is no longer possible to put that much content into a single game ( BG was a heavily text based game with graphics that were simple even at the time of it's release). While personally I would make sommersaults of joy if a BG sequel with the same old graphics engine were to be announced, I also recognize that such a game unfortunatley would only be doomed to failure. The new generation of gamers just wouldn't even give a game like that a chance to prove itself. I know from experience, i've tried to get a lot of friends of mine into the BG series but almost all of em, even some rabid rpg fans, just scoffed at the graphics and after a few hours of halfwilled effort put the game off.
On October 28 2009 03:58 Substandard wrote: Still you need to be able to look at a game objectivley. Personally I didn't like WoW that much, it's just not my type of game. Even so imho it's undeniably a great game in it's genre, as are Diablo 2 and Warcraft 3. Same with Dragonage, it's not really a very innovative game, you pretty much know what to expect gameplaywise. There simply is no other RPG with such a deep storytelling and character development. If you end up not liking it i'd go as far as to say you just don't like this kind of game.
You can't say that it's storytelling and character development is deep without having played the game. For one, it's got an almost unmatchable bar to meet in Planescape: Torment. Granted, I don't need a Planescape Torment level game to be happy, but the point is you can't make objective qualifications without objective data on the game (e.g. real play experience). Which leaves subjective analyses of Bioware's development history, and of whatever PR they've spewed out.
On October 28 2009 03:58 Substandard wrote: About Mass Effect and Kotor; you really didn't get your moneys worth out of those games? I'm not saying that there aren't things that Bioware could have done better (because there are imho quite a lot), but still both games were great and easily worth their price.
I never said they weren't worth their price. But people always make those games out like they're groundbreaking titles in the RPG genre, and that they're genre-defining hits, when KotOR is really just Baldur's Gate in space.
There's a lot of ground to be covered between a game being good, and a game being great. A good game is worth your money--a great game does more than that. It delivers the sense that the developer has something invested in the product more than just their next paycheck; that they care about the integrity of what they've developed and are willing to sacrifice some personal profit to deliver a greater experience. Bioware games post-BG have never delivered that feeling to me, and the PR surrounding Dragon Age does a good job of making it sound like it won't deliver.
On October 28 2009 04:41 Substandard wrote: While personally I would make sommersaults of joy if a BG sequel with the same old graphics engine were to be announced, I also recognize that such a game unfortunatley would only be doomed to failure.
The fact that Bioware no longer makes games I like doesn't suddenly make their games I don't like worth the price of admission. For one, there are plenty of old games that I have yet to finish that are perfectly satisfying (still crawling my way through Wizardry 8 when I have the time), and some good indie gems show up all the time. Even the mainstream surprises sometimes (while the NWN2 engine was trash, the game itself was solid, and the first expansion was VERY well written). Risen is even looking like it's worth a shot, from the little play I've tried of it so far.
To be clear, I haven't said that I dislike Dragon Age, or that I won't give it a try. All I've stated is: 1) Bioware's track record is a lot less stellar than people make it out to be. 2) The development of Dragon Age has been smeared with bad PR--sex cutscenes, staged battle scenes, huge promises, and very little of substance about the game. I'd much rather have had some design docs about the actual rule system underlying the game, or some substantial discussion about the consequences of the decisions you make in the game rather than some over-the-top CGI. Of course, i admit that the latter is much more exciting, but still, some substantive PR is nice. 3) I do have a right to express pessimistic opinions about the game, since, IMO, I've followed a rational train of thought to arrive at them.
On October 28 2009 06:09 eMbrace wrote: It's hard to be optimistic anymore about Bioware products after Mass Effect.
And honestly, The Witcher 2 is going to wipe the floor with this.
The Witcher was one of the worst rpgs I ever played. WTF was that, such an utter crap. No graphical optimization, slow slow slow repetitive repetitive repetitive pace of play, story with absolutely no depth - a recipe for disaster.
As long as Bioware doesn't go overboard with the new game+ crap like they did in mass effect, I'll be glad to play dragon age.
I will buy the game, and hopefully not be disappointed, but am prepared to be.
Bioware has made wonderful games and has made average games, their name does not guarantee i will be impressed, but it is something i trust far more than most. The marketing direction of the game may be simply an attempt to attract a different market, but the game it's self might cater to the BG genre gamer, or it may be an foreshadowing of a failure.
And this will tide me over till the release of cod modern warfare 2, which in turn will tide over me till SC:2 ( wishful thinking, i know.)
Never cared too much for this game(probably due to the crappy advertising) until recently when I did some research of my own, and I'm really looking forward to it now. Its not to often that I'm interested in a western style rpg. I did enjoy kotor and mass effect, hopefully Dragon Age will be as good.
Eh maybe it is the spiritual successor of Baldur's Gate .... Dark Alliance
o,o
On October 28 2009 03:13 Substandard wrote: It's an rpg developed by Bioware and they have proven time and time again that all their games become blockbusters similiar to blizzard games.
Black Isle =/= Bioware. Also there are many shitty blockbusters.
I'm so excited about this game. Finally, a LONG, tactical, story-driven RPG that doesn't suck!
Edit: And to the person who said Witcher 2 > DA:O, we have no reason to think this is the case. We have seen significant videos and reviews on DA:O and it's all but guaranteed to be a great game.
Witcher was a fun game but in no way ground-breaking or special.
I agree with the poster about Alpha Protocal. That game looks good.
If Dragon Age can be 70% of what Planescape and BG2 were, it will be the greatest game i've played in years.
On October 28 2009 07:26 On_Slaught wrote: I'm so excited about this game. Finally, a LONG, tactical, story-driven RPG that doesn't suck!
See, THIS gives Bioware WAY too much credit. Even people I know who thought KotOR was phenomenal agreed that the combat was fairly bland, particularly after you become a Jedi.
On October 28 2009 07:26 On_Slaught wrote: Edit: And to the person who said Witcher 2 > DA:O, we have no reason to think this is the case. We have seen significant videos and reviews on DA:O and it's all but guaranteed to be a great game.
The thing is, we haven't. We've seen a handful of dialogues that don't look in any way revolutionary, some combat videos that tell nothing about how the system actually works, and a lot of cutscenes. The number of videos we've seen that actually deliver substantive information about the game, and not just "ooh look at this, this is cool" are fairly small. Ditto on reviews, especially given how slanted some reviews end up being.
Hmmm. I loved BG2 back in the day, but I have to agree that the way the game was marketed was a big turnoff for me. I probably won't be coming out of single player game retirement to play this at least until it's much cheaper.
On October 28 2009 07:26 On_Slaught wrote: This. Game. Cannot. Come. Out. Fast. Enough.
I'm so excited about this game. Finally, a LONG, tactical, story-driven RPG that doesn't suck!
Edit: And to the person who said Witcher 2 > DA:O, we have no reason to think this is the case. We have seen significant videos and reviews on DA:O and it's all but guaranteed to be a great game.
Witcher was a fun game but in no way ground-breaking or special.
I agree with the poster about Alpha Protocal. That game looks good.
If Dragon Age can be 70% of what Planescape and BG2 were, it will be the greatest game i've played in years.
My reasons to think that Witcher 2 will be better is merely an opinion.
Bioware doesn't get a lot of heavy competition any more...
I mean the other big name WRPG franchises today are what? Fable, Fallout, Mass Effect?Not too hard to top those IMO.
So you can imagine my surprise when I picked up the Witcher, and even though it wasn't an insanely complex game by any means, and had its share of technical issues -- I don't think I've felt that engrossed in a RPG in lonnnngg time.
BG2 is by far the game I completed the most times. I did it in every possible way. I'm also a hardcore BG1, IWD1 & IWD2. With that been said, BioWare claiming Dragon Age is the new BG means something really big to me.
I expect to play this game endlessly until 2012, which is when SC2 will finally be released.
Lets face it, the main draw for the baldur's gate series wasn't the combat, it was the story, characters and exploration. Even if dragon age's combat system isn't that engaging I'll be more than satisfied if it pulls off the other elements of a great rpg well. The same can be said of fallout 3, crap combat, but the rest of the game was gold. That said I've already pre-ordered my copy of dragon age, can't wait!
and lol @ the witcher being a good game. Holly crap, what a piece of trash it was. Reminded me of pokemon except with boobs, have to collect them all... nude cards??
On October 28 2009 09:14 EAGER-beaver wrote: Lets face it, the main draw for the baldur's gate series wasn't the combat, it was the story, characters and exploration. Even if dragon age's combat system isn't that engaging I'll be more than satisfied if it pulls off the other elements of a great rpg well. The same can be said of fallout 3, crap combat, but the rest of the game was gold. That said I've already pre-ordered my copy of dragon age, can't wait!
and lol @ the witcher being a good game. Holly crap, what a piece of trash it was. Reminded me of pokemon except with boobs, have to collect them all... nude cards??
Yes, that was clearly the main draw of the game and the reason it was popular.
there was nothing wrong with witcher :/ much better than your average shit game, not an epic success best game ever like bg2 is, but still a decent game. Mass effect was also decent, had many flaws but many really good parts too!. If this game is as good as either the witcher or mass effect ill certainly play it.
On October 28 2009 09:14 EAGER-beaver wrote: Lets face it, the main draw for the baldur's gate series wasn't the combat, it was the story, characters and exploration.
I agree for BG1, however combat is really important in BG2 and probably the most interesting thing in the game ( with mods ) if you have already completed the game once and experienced the banters. That's why it has a great replayability compared to BG1.
On October 28 2009 09:14 EAGER-beaver wrote: and lol @ the witcher being a good game. Holly crap, what a piece of trash it was. Reminded me of pokemon except with boobs, have to collect them all... nude cards??
It at least tried to do things that most other RPGs these days haven't tried. It offered real choices that actually affect the world you're in (almost of the choices in other modern RPG games either don't matter--e.g. it just gives you a different cutscene or some different dialogue text--or ultimately lead you to the same choice--e.g. swap an NPC that appears in 2-3 scenes, and further on the choice is irrelevant). Most people miss that from having only played the game once, but the choices you make at certain points in the game actually do alter the events notably.
On October 28 2009 09:14 EAGER-beaver wrote: and lol @ the witcher being a good game. Holly crap, what a piece of trash it was. Reminded me of pokemon except with boobs, have to collect them all... nude cards??
It at least tried to do things that most other RPGs these days haven't tried. It offered real choices that actually affect the world you're in (almost of the choices in other modern RPG games either don't matter--e.g. it just gives you a different cutscene or some different dialogue text--or ultimately lead you to the same choice--e.g. swap an NPC that appears in 2-3 scenes, and further on the choice is irrelevant). Most people miss that from having only played the game once, but the choices you make at certain points in the game actually do alter the events notably.
I liked the Witcher's dialogue system because there was no cookie-cutter good-or-evil decision to make. the lines were very grey and made for truly interesting and realistic social situations.
i liked that more than the typical
"oh please help me! they robbed me!!"
A.) Sure I'll help, to the rescueeeee B.) I don't want to get involved C.) Sure I'll help you....NOT!! *kill NPC*
and that's precisely what I saw in some Dragon Age footage where there is a prisoner and you can kill him for no goddamn reason just to be morally backwards.
I'm so excited about this game. Finally, a LONG, tactical, story-driven RPG that doesn't suck!
If Dragon Age can be 70% of what Planescape and BG2 were, it will be the greatest game i've played in years.
Yeah I agree, though bg2 felt like a little bit too much combat at times. I'll mainly be judging this game on narrative delivery and story first, gameplay second.
On October 27 2009 02:29 Boblion wrote: /prepared to be disappointed ( BG2 scenario already disappointed me a bit back then even if it is one of my favourite games because gameplay with mods is just awesome. )
Maybe i'm just too old for what video games have become
edit: jesus those trailers with crap-metal are so lame
Same here.
Regardless of how good the game ends up being, the development of this game has been enshrouded in so much money-grubbing and PR bullshit that it's absurd. Advertising the game's sex scenes as part of the trailers is just awful. Way to cater to the lowest common denominator.
There's an expansion that comes out the day of release? Why couldn't they just have included it in the game instead of making you pay another x dollars for it?
Second lowest common denominator. Sex scenes are at least above casual gamers.
On October 28 2009 03:13 Substandard wrote: I don't mean to offend anybody but seriously, anybody who doesn't think Dragonage will be a great game is a fool.. . It's an rpg developed by Bioware and they have proven time and time again that all their games become blockbusters similiar to blizzard games. If anything you can trust them even more because they only make rpgs and you pretty much know what you get compared to blizzards wider range of genres.
Of course it will ultimately come down to taste HOW much you will like the game, but as long as you like rpgs there is absolutley no question that you WILL get your moneys worth out of this game.
They haven't made a great one since BG2. Mass Effect is essentially an FPS with story and Jade Empire was a shallow action game. Both of those games were completely overrated by people because they have great graphics. Sorry, but both games sucked for me. I'm not a fan of FPS at all and that's not how real RPGs should be.
On October 28 2009 10:19 eMbrace wrote: I liked the Witcher's dialogue system because there was no cookie-cutter good-or-evil decision to make. the lines were very grey and made for truly interesting and realistic social situations.
Many of the conversations could be done in any order you wanted so the emotions in characters' responses was often inconsistent or lifeless. One conversation branch might piss an NPC off, but then he's back to being your best friend when you ask him about something else. That really annoyed me, plus the protagonist was incredibly dull himself (I didn't get very far into the game before quitting).
On October 28 2009 10:19 eMbrace wrote: I liked the Witcher's dialogue system because there was no cookie-cutter good-or-evil decision to make. the lines were very grey and made for truly interesting and realistic social situations.
Many of the conversations could be done in any order you wanted so the emotions in characters' responses was often inconsistent or lifeless. One conversation branch might piss an NPC off, but then he's back to being your best friend when you ask him about something else. That really annoyed me, plus the protagonist was incredibly dull himself (I didn't get very far into the game before quitting).
i really can't relate to what you are talking about 0_o
Just checked out the trailers and all talk bout this game, shit looks badass. Im really sad however considering my laptop is a piece of a shit and i wont be able to play it
On October 29 2009 14:53 Tenryu wrote: Just checked out the trailers and all talk bout this game, shit looks badass. Im really sad however considering my laptop is a piece of a shit and i wont be able to play it
it is also being released on the ps3 and 360 i believe
I hope the class advancement/branching system works out well. I've always been a big fan of rpgs with class systems where you get to change and specialize after a certain point. There's a few reviews for the game out now which are all universally positive.
I'm a big fan of RPGs where I spend hours figuring out how I want to allocate my party's classes/talents/skills/abilities/whatchamacallits. The review I read seems positive but Bioware has disappointed me lately.
Damnit I have a huge exam I'm going to be studying for all weekend on the week this game comes out. Fuuucckkk it looks awesome though, I'm really glad they ditched the dnd ruleset. I just finished watching all the cinematics on their website, it looks like they're putting a lot of effort into story-telling and developing the characters, I think this will be a very good game. That's the main reason I couldn't enjoy Oblivion for very long, it was cool they built the world so fully and beautifully and the gameplay was passable, but the characters and inhabitants of the world were just so lifeless and un-compelling.
We thought you'd like to know that we shipped your items, and that this completes your order.
The following items have been shipped to you by Amazon.com:
Dragon Age: Origins (Windows Vista / XP)
via USPS (estimated delivery date: November 9, 2009).
Ouch, I've always hated USPS with a passion. I avoid buying from anywhere that doesn't offer ups/fedex.
It's the price (or lack thereof) that you pay for Super Saver Shipping and no sales tax. Amazon usually overestimates. I expect to have it in time for the weekend.
We thought you'd like to know that we shipped your items, and that this completes your order.
The following items have been shipped to you by Amazon.com:
Dragon Age: Origins (Windows Vista / XP)
via USPS (estimated delivery date: November 9, 2009).
Ouch, I've always hated USPS with a passion. I avoid buying from anywhere that doesn't offer ups/fedex.
i have always gotten my games within 3 days of being shipped when choosing the free option with USPS.
amazon is amazing. you save like 7-8 bucks by not going to gamestop, and you don't have to listen to a bunch of employees trying to make you buy things used.
We thought you'd like to know that we shipped your items, and that this completes your order.
The following items have been shipped to you by Amazon.com:
Dragon Age: Origins (Windows Vista / XP)
via USPS (estimated delivery date: November 9, 2009).
Ouch, I've always hated USPS with a passion. I avoid buying from anywhere that doesn't offer ups/fedex.
i have always gotten my games within 3 days of being shipped when choosing the free option with USPS.
amazon is amazing. you save like 7-8 bucks by not going to gamestop, and you don't have to listen to a bunch of employees trying to make you buy things used.
It might be due to not having a mailbox or just local driver/shipping center is dumb but they've lost a few packages and just in general been a pain so I stopped using them.Never had a problem with ups/fedex. The local ups guy always hides packages on my porch out of sight from the outside so I like using them for shipping =)
If anyone's interested my steam pre-load just finished, 10,755.2 MB downloaded(if steams bandwidth monitor is correct) and 15.2 GB unpacked in my steam folder.
We thought you'd like to know that we shipped your items, and that this completes your order.
The following items have been shipped to you by Amazon.com:
Dragon Age: Origins (Windows Vista / XP)
via USPS (estimated delivery date: November 9, 2009).
Ouch, I've always hated USPS with a passion. I avoid buying from anywhere that doesn't offer ups/fedex.
i have always gotten my games within 3 days of being shipped when choosing the free option with USPS.
amazon is amazing. you save like 7-8 bucks by not going to gamestop, and you don't have to listen to a bunch of employees trying to make you buy things used.
It might be due to not having a mailbox or just local driver/shipping center is dumb but they've lost a few packages and just in general been a pain so I stopped using them.Never had a problem with ups/fedex. The local ups guy always hides packages on my porch out of sight from the outside so I like using them for shipping =)
If anyone's interested my steam pre-load just finished, 10,755.2 MB downloaded(if steams bandwidth monitor is correct) and 15.2 GB unpacked in my steam folder.
Oh, I totally understand. When I lived up in Alaska, shipping was key in my buying decisions. I'd never fault anyone for buying from Steam, either -- good service. Plus, you'll have it on release day, unlike me!
They made a flash game promo version of this, and I played through that. You can get achievements which will give you items in the real game if you play that.
[backstabbing with A BATTLE AXE? shit's hilarious]
Human male noble for sure. Just from watching the videos of the city elf, I can tell the dialogue and voice acting are going to be top notch. I think I'll really enjoy this game. Too bad I have exxaaammmmmmmssss fucasdflkjasdfufk
I still cannot decide between City Elf Warrior, Dwarf Noble Rogue and Human Mage. All of them seem so compelling. I know that I can just play all of them, but the first experience counts the most since that is when the main storyline is completely unknown to you.
First impressions are that the graphics are not bad at all as some people have said, the combat seems a little simplistic(im not sure how much of it i havent been shown yet, it reminds me of an upgraded baldurs gate), but the voice-acting and the initial surrounding characters of the human noble are actually slightly intruiging, as expected of a BioWare game. wish i could play some more but a lil busy
The game is awesome. The story is BRUTAL as a male dwarf commoner (rogue) lol. I don't want to spoil but this is not some happy fairy tale land haha. I'll update again a little later XD!
On November 04 2009 06:33 DJEtterStyle wrote: So who's already playing it? What are your first impressions? I need something to hold me over until my package arrives!
Just got back from playing/watching a friend play, and I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised. It's certainly no Baldur's Gate 3, but I'm pleased to say that it exceeded all my expectations for the game.
Character Development: Seem to be a good deal of options, but I haven't seen enough to say anything that those of you that toyed around with the character creator wouldn't already know. Origin stories based on your class/race selection actually play out somewhat interestingly. I don't expect them to have a major impact on things to come, but I will be very impressed if they do.
Atmosphere: The world feels nice. Not revolutionary--the Tolkien/Martin/Salvatore/etc. influences on the world are painfully obvious, but it's a solid, self-consistent fantasy world as far as I can tell. The graphics aren't Crysis, but the art direction is alright, and gives a solid feel to the game.
Dialogue/C&C: It's very Biowarish here. Certainly there are "fake" choices that have no real consequence on what happens, but it's also expecting far too much to expect choices of that magnitude within the early parts of the game. The dialogue certainly seems reasonably well-written, though, but again, I'll have to see how Gaider's writing style pans out across the different characters. The acid test will of course be the character romances--that's always been Gaider's weak point.
Combat: Combat...is a mixed bag. From seeing my friend who's farther along, there are certainly combats that take a bit of thought to get through, but there's also a fair bit of filler (hopefully there's less as the game progresses, as most of my impressions come from the origin I played). It does seem a bit schizophrenic, as I couldn't decide wither combat felt better from an overhead view or from over-the-shoulder, though I expect it feels natural once you choose one and get used to it. The interface is functional and definitely gets things done, though that part also isn't anything special.
All in all, a good experience. It doesn't surpass any of the gold standards of the genre, but it certainly surpassed my own expectations for it. I'll either pick up a copy in the next few days, or wait until another version comes around holiday-time that's bundled with a couple of the DLCs.
On November 04 2009 06:33 DJEtterStyle wrote: So who's already playing it? What are your first impressions? I need something to hold me over until my package arrives!
I just finished playing it for a few hours... haha wow that's the first time in like a year I've actually sat down and played a single player video game for that long. Anyway, it's really good, the game does feel suspiciously like nwn2 meets wow. The graphics are amazing even on my crappy 3 year old machine. My only real complaint is with the combat, which feels really simplistic and dry, but maybe that's because I'm playing a rogue and I'm still only level 6, there's still of a lot of new abilities to come along. It's definitely a lot more like neverwinter nights than baldur's gate, but that's ok. I'd say it's an improvement over nwn2 rather than a "spiritual successor" to baldur's gate. They gotta just make baldurs gate 3 for that I think. Definitely the best single player rpg I've played since baldur's gate 2. The story is definitely better than most rpgs, but still a little cliche. I did human noble and it was pretty good, the city elf one was ripped straight out of braveheart lolol.
On November 04 2009 13:48 AzureEye wrote: hey guys, do you think my crappy old computer can run this game?
Pentium 4 2.6 2 GB ddr ram Geforce 6600 128 mb video I forget the rest of the details but I'm assuming its a no right?
Probably on the lowest settings. I have a pentium D dual core 2.66ghz, nvidia 7950 and 2gb ddr and outdoor areas are really bad frames on low-medium settings at 1024 resolution. Indoor is pretty smooth.
On November 04 2009 13:48 AzureEye wrote: hey guys, do you think my crappy old computer can run this game?
Pentium 4 2.6 2 GB ddr ram Geforce 6600 128 mb video I forget the rest of the details but I'm assuming its a no right?
A dev mentioned in the the forums that only 3 ghz+ single core cpus would give acceptable frame rates, so I doubt it would work well for you.
Games great I'm having a blast =) Characters are great, dialog, and voice acting is exceptionally well done. graphics are definitely a weak point, but not bad enough to be distracting, the detail in the world is really good though. Combat and UI are definitely a step up from BG/kotor I like being able to switch from third person/ overhead views.
Haven't enjoyed an RPG this much in a long time, thought about it all day at work lol.
To those of you who have been playing the game, what do you think of it overall? Is it awesome and worth buying? Is it decent and worth perhaps acquiring through other means?
The storytelling is pretty good. I'm about two hours or so into it so far, and I've not wanted to kill voiceactors or script writers for horrible lines yet.
The combat system's pretty generic so far. Feels a lot like NWN2 with the individual micromanagement of characters and top-down semi-turnbased gameplay, but with slightly more abilities to spam. This'll evolve with my character once I get into the game a bit more I'm sure, since it has a skillpick-based ability list that you pick from when you level up. There's also a "technique"-system which controls AI much like the Gambit-system in FFXII, but I haven't really put myself into how that works yet. I imagine it'll help out quite a lot with managing my sidekicks.
The graphics aren't all that good close in, with low-detail characters and rather odd physical proportions. Things look pretty good when zoomed out to "tactical mode", but the game loses a lot of intimacy and immersion with the camera that distant, something which, for me at least, ruins some of the experience.
That being said, the combat is perfectly competent and doesn't really annoy me, and any graphic whines I might have is forgotten once I scroll out and get on with the game. It's not groundbreaking in any way, but I'm sure it'll keep me entertained for a couple playthroughs.
The game is very fun to play. Great story and characters so far.
As far as combat goes, the only "dynamic" class really is the mage. I agree that Rogue and Warrior are pretty generic, but with the wide array of spells, the mage has a lot of room for fun and dynamic approaches to each fight.
Contrary to what other people have said, I'm actually a bit turned off by the story. I find I have a hard time caring about the fate of Ferelden, and the LotR/ASoIaF-ness is really getting to me (they could have made the Grey Wardens a bit less Night Watch-y, and "Ser Jory"? Really?). I like that they ditched having a good/evil system, largely because Bioware was never really good at implementing it in a way that mattered anyway. Dialogue still feels a bit railroady and Biowarish, but I'm glad to say that fake choices are not nearly as bad as they were in Mass Effect (where in some cases, even the same lines of dialogue would be said if you picked a choice with an entirely opposed tone).
Combat is definitely the main draw of the game for me. In comparison to the Infinity Engine: it does some things better, and some things worse. The fact that it isn't running a turn-based ruleset makes the combat feel a bit MMO-ish, but it's definitely better than the 5-second delay in Infinity Engine games between telling someone to cast a spell and it actually happening because the game is trying to conform to turns. I still have issues with the top-down/over-the-shoulder views, in particular, when I can't scroll far enough in top-down view to target a ranged attacker, and have to scroll back down to over-the-shoulder view to target them (IMO they should have just allowed free-scrolling in top-down view, but with fog of war).
It is true that mages generally feel more interesting than rogues/warriors, but that doesn't bother me so much, probably because I'm used to it from D&D.
Oh, and the party banter is very good.
To those playing mages: anyone else find the Mind Blast/Telekinetic Weapons line of spells to be really good? Every spell in the line feels like its either flat out amazing, or has a lot of versatility.
On November 06 2009 05:52 Haemonculus wrote: To those of you who have been playing the game, what do you think of it overall? Is it awesome and worth buying? Is it decent and worth perhaps acquiring through other means?
How's the feel so far? Thanks!!
i wanted to hate it, what with me being an rpg elitist, but damn it's one fun game. the beggining is slow and forgetable but the more you play the better it gets (and you have A LOT to play). the difficulty is perfect, im playing on hard and its hard enough to keep you on your toes and actually happy when you beat a hard encounter, but not too hard to kill your enthusiasm for the game.
edit: as some people said, characters and story can be uninteresting and forgettable, but not nearly enough to turn you off.
I felt that the telekinetic line was terrific. I actually invested in it under the impression that entities could act while in Force Field (so I could cast from within it). Not the case (probably would've been broken) but still great crowd control.
I also felt that the AoE DoT spells in the Primal block really paled in comparison to the higher level Entropy block spells like Mass Paralysis and Waking Nightmares. Overall I felt that the mage was most effective in a support (buff, debuff, crowd control) role.
What are peoples' specific gripes with the graphics? I don't have any in particular. plated.rawr mentions low detail and odd proportions but I can't relate. Is there a similar RPG that's superior in this department?
Nevermind, I felt that some spell effects were underwhelming. I mean come on, a KotOR mod I played had a better Chain Lightning than this game. Dragon Age's incarnation is more of a mini ping pong Ball Lightning.
However I still don't understand how the character models are poor.
Sounds pretty awesome so far! Sadly, looking at the system reqs, my computer will probably struggle to run it, so I may get stuck playing on the 360.
Has anyone played it on the xbox yet? Are the controls/interface still usable? Is this going to be like going from SystemShock2 to Bioshock where it's been dumbed down like mad so it can be played on a console?
Combat is fine. It was never meant to have dynamic combat that most gamers just expect to have now. Has no one played Baldur's Gate? I've yet to see anyone say something to it so I'm just going to assume no lol. Baldur's Gate is like one of the few real RPGs that was made, if u were a fan of that game then you might have more respect for Dragon Age.
Story wise meh. I find myself having no attachment to anyone or anything. Though there are very few games that truly give a player that feeling, so it's not a huge issue. Though I keep Morrigan and Allistar in the party :D.
Nightmare is the best difficulty! You cannot run into anything at all without being prepared. You need to know your companions, know their roles and skills. I find myself doing 80% of the work while using tactics simply to upkeep a vital support skill or cast heals just incase I don't get to it in time.
I hate the look of the game ha, it's still a terribly bad looking game. After playing it though you sort of just accept it and adapt to it all. Blood is very annoying. You poke something with a stick and your party gets covered in a lot of blood :-/.
On November 06 2009 08:57 TheYango wrote:To those playing mages: anyone else find the Mind Blast/Telekinetic Weapons line of spells to be really good? Every spell in the line feels like its either flat out amazing, or has a lot of versatility.
I looove Spirit tree. Everything in that tree is really good. It's IMO the most effective tree due to the energy management. You can turn everyone into bombs, spam ur basic skill and cast a support to allies with no fear of running out of energy any time soon. Plus I still get a good laugh when you turn the hardest enemy of the group into a bomb and he blows everyone in his group up :D.
So what class is currently the most interesting?I'm on the fence as to whether or not to buy the game, but I did download the character editor, and would love to play around. Are the elves or dwarves so disadvantaged? Do the mages have a clear edge over rogues/warriors? What does the warrior gain vs rogues in return for the lack of stealth? etc etc.
do i suck or is this game hard. Im going to the tower and the mage keeps dying so I am controlling him, but now my main character rogue is being useless. zzz
Im only about 5-6 hours into the game and it is absolutely captivating so far. The system of a party of 4 although diff from bg, is still more than enough players to do well in situations. You can also pick up some random npcs in larger fights if need be so no harm done.
I opted for human warrior, and the entry story wasnt bad but not great. I am spending far more time talking to every single person in every spot, as well as doing every side quest I can find. I am figuring it will make my life easier in the long run.
Im about 20 hours into this game so far and i must say tat people hating on it are hating on it or reasons that most games have faults with. Not wanting to care about the people? Thats your fault imo. Why did i want to care about princess peach in the original marios? Why care about anyone in any game for that matter if you don't want to. anyways on to gameplay-
On November 06 2009 10:22 gameguard wrote: do i suck or is this game hard. Im going to the tower and the mage keeps dying so I am controlling him, but now my main character rogue is being useless. zzz
Yes i believe you suck at this game. That is not a bad thing. To people who are not familiar with buldur's gate type play or with AD&D type styles you will have a hard time playing this game. If you want to go through not having to micro manage every character pretty much every 2 seconds to make sure they operate efficiently (which is of course not a bad thing, just a different aproach) then easy mode will be where its at for you. If you want to play in real time and just take the game and its story along for the ride then you will have a good time in easy.
If you want to play the game and make sure your classes fullfill their roles then you have to play on hard at the least. Normal makes some fights too easy and you don't always feel like you need to use your skills right. Its a good game and mages are OP with the skill books.
All classes are fun to play and customize and you really only get enough levels to play one style through the game. so you will have to play multiple times if you want to create a two hander guy vs Sword n Shield Warrior.
On to the Quests. I personally like it. I wanted to do the quests and i had a good time. There is enough variety in the quests and it makes it so the game isn't always about finding the next fight and just having banter in between. You can go a good time without a fight and still be intrugued if you want to read the codex thats provided and enjoy the world they created.
To people who are hating on the LotR and other influences than i say who are you kidding? What do you expect. Those books have influenced practically every middle earthish type game/story since. You can't have a type of bad race ie darkspawn without claiming the LotR as reference. Granted I believe that made them just enough different that you don't see orcs in them but i mean that archetype set by LotR is so huge its hard not to see it practically everywhere.
Ok i give the game a 9. Only down sides i see are the lack scripted fights. (Ie having the opponents lure you into a trap by running away type) there are a few here and there but mostly its just going in to a room full of baddies and setting up your line and trying to fight efficiently and using your Crowd control. Still enough interesting situations that make you stay on your toes if your playing above normal.
Also there are a few problems with the scripts during some staged fights where your supposed to fight waves of enemies. Here and there i found that the enemies would just stop coming and the quest would remain active. It seems that the scripts stop working or they were crappy and I had to go and track down where they were coming from cause stragglers stalled out there and were just standing around.
Overall i say its going to be THE rpg to get for a while especially if you get if for the PC as the amount of mods that are going to be released through the toolkit and the community are going to be great. I mean Buldur's gate vanilla kinda sucks. Its the mods that make it the great wonderful rpg it is. Anyways i hope i helped clear some things up and hope i helped spread the good word. Have fun kiddies.
edit: if any of you have any questions about the game il try to help flesh it out for you. Hate for someone who would love this game to pass it up.
i just got dragon age and it plays fine but...i have some EXTREME audio lag/stuttering...anyone else have this problem? (or any ideas on how to fix it?)
Compared to the usual D&D setting and or rules it feels quite a lot simplified, but mostly in a good way. I have enjoyed it so far, but would have liked it more had they used the age old six character party instead of limiting it to four.
Companion characters and their dialogues are just great as usually in games like these, though the NPC dialogue is partially lacking. It seems whatever you say eventually leads to similar or same outcome.
Not much time clocked on the game yet, begun as Human Noble Rogue, aiming to specialize into Duelist or prehaps Bard depending on how things will go on.
On November 06 2009 12:36 _PulSe_ wrote: Im about 20 hours into this game so far and i must say tat people hating on it are hating on it or reasons that most games have faults with. Not wanting to care about the people? Thats your fault imo. Why did i want to care about princess peach in the original marios? Why care about anyone in any game for that matter if you don't want to. anyways on to gameplay-
I going to have to disagree slightly with this. It's not just simply caring about characters. It's pretty difficult to really summarize all this up but, it's about drawing the player into the world. Much like a really good book makes you feel like you read for only 5 minutes when really it was 5 hours. It's a trait that many games lack now and the thing with Dragon Age is that, yeah sure I care if Morrigan would die but if she did I wouldn't shed a tear over it. I'd just be like well alright, who's the next mage in line. It's just Dragon Age doesn't draw you into the story to an almost emotional level. Yeah, you can go very deep into this lol but that's about all I'll do.
I do agree Dragon Age is basically THE rpg to get right now. It's a Bioware product, sure they don't release the best games but their stuff is always fantastic and top the charts.
On November 06 2009 10:01 orgolove wrote: So what class is currently the most interesting?I'm on the fence as to whether or not to buy the game, but I did download the character editor, and would love to play around. Are the elves or dwarves so disadvantaged? Do the mages have a clear edge over rogues/warriors? What does the warrior gain vs rogues in return for the lack of stealth? etc etc.
Here's my feelings towards this. You can do two things, pick a character that gets benefits in the start or pick a character that you simply want as a Hero. Thing about Dragon Age is that you basically have a chance to acquire any class in the game. So a hero really isn't much of a special thing. It's just the character that shows up on camera. Now you can start as rogue and get the ability to open locked chests, a lot of early game loot. Or you can go Mage and have a very strong start. Or you can go Warrior and have a fairly weak start (IMO), since most of the party in the beginning is Warriors. There's very little difference between races really. Just makes for different talks but doesn't effect the story what so ever. As far as I can tell a Noble human starts with a earlier pet dog. The only thing that changes with Race/Class/Standing would be the start of the game and how you get to become a Warden. As far as skills and who is better. They all have their uses, it depends on what you want your role to be. Warrior vs Rogue, well I early game stealth is pretty terrible lol. But Warrior gets the ability to draw enemies away from the party, take a lot of damage and dish out a lot of damage. Rogue is just pure support you can't really do much with it. Open chests, lay traps various things (but still very useful). If you got melee rogue then prepare to die a lot if you're not careful. Bow Rogue is very good to start with, archers have a fairly decent advantage over melee. The range of the bow is ridiculous.
Gotta add :D. The enemies in this game lol... looks like Marcus Fenix (gears of war) didn't fully kill off the locust. I mean come on, they look exactly like locust AND they come from inside the earth. Bioware.... do you not think for yourself anymore? LoTR fights & story with GoW style enemies. Sigh.
So how early can you get your companions in this game?
Also what kind of party are people aiming. I figure I need 2 mages out of 4 party members to have access to even half the spells in the game. Some of the spells look redundant, though.
the level scaling is starting to get on my nerves in this game.
at first i thought it was only the darkspawn that is level-scaled, and that would kinda make sense, but now im fighting 300+ health mercenary crossbowmen that im pretty sure had 150 hp the last time i saw them and it really ruins the sense of advancement when its the same challenge defeating a certain enemy on lvl 5 and lvl 15...
@andrewlt
you get companions forced on you in the first 15 minutes of the game.
On November 06 2009 12:36 _PulSe_ wrote: Im about 20 hours into this game so far and i must say tat people hating on it are hating on it or reasons that most games have faults with. Not wanting to care about the people? Thats your fault imo. Why did i want to care about princess peach in the original marios? Why care about anyone in any game for that matter if you don't want to. anyways on to gameplay-
I going to have to disagree slightly with this. It's not just simply caring about characters. It's pretty difficult to really summarize all this up but, it's about drawing the player into the world. Much like a really good book makes you feel like you read for only 5 minutes when really it was 5 hours. It's a trait that many games lack now and the thing with Dragon Age is that, yeah sure I care if Morrigan would die but if she did I wouldn't shed a tear over it. I'd just be like well alright, who's the next mage in line. It's just Dragon Age doesn't draw you into the story to an almost emotional level. Yeah, you can go very deep into this lol but that's about all I'll do.
I do agree Dragon Age is basically THE rpg to get right now. It's a Bioware product, sure they don't release the best games but their stuff is always fantastic and top the charts.
On November 06 2009 10:01 orgolove wrote: So what class is currently the most interesting?I'm on the fence as to whether or not to buy the game, but I did download the character editor, and would love to play around. Are the elves or dwarves so disadvantaged? Do the mages have a clear edge over rogues/warriors? What does the warrior gain vs rogues in return for the lack of stealth? etc etc.
Here's my feelings towards this. You can do two things, pick a character that gets benefits in the start or pick a character that you simply want as a Hero. Thing about Dragon Age is that you basically have a chance to acquire any class in the game. So a hero really isn't much of a special thing. It's just the character that shows up on camera. Now you can start as rogue and get the ability to open locked chests, a lot of early game loot. Or you can go Mage and have a very strong start. Or you can go Warrior and have a fairly weak start (IMO), since most of the party in the beginning is Warriors. There's very little difference between races really. Just makes for different talks but doesn't effect the story what so ever. As far as I can tell a Noble human starts with a earlier pet dog. The only thing that changes with Race/Class/Standing would be the start of the game and how you get to become a Warden. As far as skills and who is better. They all have their uses, it depends on what you want your role to be. Warrior vs Rogue, well I early game stealth is pretty terrible lol. But Warrior gets the ability to draw enemies away from the party, take a lot of damage and dish out a lot of damage. Rogue is just pure support you can't really do much with it. Open chests, lay traps various things (but still very useful). If you got melee rogue then prepare to die a lot if you're not careful. Bow Rogue is very good to start with, archers have a fairly decent advantage over melee. The range of the bow is ridiculous.
Gotta add :D. The enemies in this game lol... looks like Marcus Fenix (gears of war) didn't fully kill off the locust. I mean come on, they look exactly like locust AND they come from inside the earth. Bioware.... do you not think for yourself anymore? LoTR fights & story with GoW style enemies. Sigh.
And this was supposed to be their big breakout because they were creating their own intellectual property rather than having to pay D&D and follow their rules every time they wanted to make a game.
Pretty sad that they best they came up with was another shitty Tolkien-derived fantasy that plays with cookie-cutter D&D style classes. Sers wtf. Hire some writers with creativity. These game companies never want to pay out decent money for writers, then people wonder why the dialogue/storylines suck balls. It's coz a good writer would make more money writing a novel! Who would want to waste their time with a game when they're paid dirt and have to listen to the game designers on virtually everything creative.
On November 07 2009 03:57 WiljushkA wrote: the level scaling is starting to get on my nerves in this game.
at first i thought it was only the darkspawn that is level-scaled, and that would kinda make sense, but now im fighting 300+ health mercenary crossbowmen that im pretty sure had 150 hp the last time i saw them and it really ruins the sense of advancement when its the same challenge defeating a certain enemy on lvl 5 and lvl 15...
@andrewlt
you get companions forced on you in the first 15 minutes of the game.
I meant filling out the party with permanent characters, not the temporary ones in the intros. How long do I have to play to be able to contruct a balanced party?
On November 07 2009 03:57 WiljushkA wrote: the level scaling is starting to get on my nerves in this game.
at first i thought it was only the darkspawn that is level-scaled, and that would kinda make sense, but now im fighting 300+ health mercenary crossbowmen that im pretty sure had 150 hp the last time i saw them and it really ruins the sense of advancement when its the same challenge defeating a certain enemy on lvl 5 and lvl 15...
@andrewlt
you get companions forced on you in the first 15 minutes of the game.
I meant filling out the party with permanent characters, not the temporary ones in the intros. How long do I have to play to be able to contruct a balanced party?
I'm playing it on 360, tested it on pc 2 though and I'd definitly recommend this one for pc if you have one that can run it on high settings. Pc has better graphics and better control. 360 runs fine though with smooth framerate but it plays more like Mass effect than Baldurs Gate there.
I'd definitly recommend playing on hard difficulty. No friendly fire off aoe spells like fireball is imho game breaking.
are dual wielding assassin viable? I noticed that backstabs only use the main hand weapon which is stupid. The thing is, I only got skills up to momentum and the second mastery for dual weapon. Both these skills work nicely with backstabs, especially momentum.
So anyways, what exactly are assassins good at? What skills do they get? I do have 1 point in all the rogue skills. I will get lock pick to max once I can spare the points. Stealth seems pretty useless. Why stealth when you can just walk around to the back and start stabbing..
Is duelist a rogue only class? What do they get? Are they a viable head to head fighter?
On November 07 2009 03:57 WiljushkA wrote: the level scaling is starting to get on my nerves in this game.
at first i thought it was only the darkspawn that is level-scaled, and that would kinda make sense, but now im fighting 300+ health mercenary crossbowmen that im pretty sure had 150 hp the last time i saw them and it really ruins the sense of advancement when its the same challenge defeating a certain enemy on lvl 5 and lvl 15...
@andrewlt
you get companions forced on you in the first 15 minutes of the game.
I meant filling out the party with permanent characters, not the temporary ones in the intros. How long do I have to play to be able to contruct a balanced party?
oh, 4 or 5 hours probably
Oh, thanks. I was looking through stats online and many of the companion characters' starting stats look like you'd get them pretty late. I think it looked like the possible 3rd-4th character has stats of a level 8.
On November 07 2009 05:45 Substandard wrote: I'd definitly recommend playing on hard difficulty. No friendly fire off aoe spells like fireball is imho game breaking.
You still take half damage from friendly fire on normal, but that reduction still makes mages very powerful.
One thing I will add. The one thing i love so far about this game is the ability to basically fuck yourself over with companion characters. Based on your actions in game, some will love you for them, others hate you. Balancing between trying to keep everyone happy or must a few happy gets hard. It can also screw you over if you pissed people off too much.
On November 07 2009 06:06 gameguard wrote: are dual wielding assassin viable? I noticed that backstabs only use the main hand weapon which is stupid. The thing is, I only got skills up to momentum and the second mastery for dual weapon. Both these skills work nicely with backstabs, especially momentum.
So anyways, what exactly are assassins good at? What skills do they get? I do have 1 point in all the rogue skills. I will get lock pick to max once I can spare the points. Stealth seems pretty useless. Why stealth when you can just walk around to the back and start stabbing..
Is duelist a rogue only class? What do they get? Are they a viable head to head fighter?
At first I disliked the camera in the game but once I got used to controlling it it's ok. Being able to run around fps-style solo indoors and being able to have the beautiful dialogs with in game graphics makes it worth it.
The story, characters and dialog are what to expect from the makers of Baldurs Gate. I have played the game for 16 hours now and I still feel like I have only touched the surface. It's the best RPG released since the fallout 2 or Baldurs gate 2 imo.
btw. fireball+earthquake+inferno is fucking brutal vs hordes of mobs. I ran into a bandit camp and killed 70% of the opponents in a matter of seconds solo. Unless you face ranged attackers, fast opponents or opponents that can slow you you can basically just kite a horde of mobs solo and nuke them continuously with aoe.
On November 07 2009 05:07 Foucault wrote: I don't like the 3:d person view.
A successor to Baldurs gate should be in the bird-view perspective
You can zoom out and view the game from a more or less isometric view. You don't get an overview as good as in Baldurs gate since it is in 3D and things can still block your view to a degree. I was skeptical too at first and it felt odd for the first couple of hours. But once you get used to it, you learn to appreciate what the rich 3D environments and the option of FPS style play (at least between fights). In the end the switch to 3D adds more to immersion than it subtracts from the tactical overview.
So I just got Arcane Warrior, and it's been kind of lackluster. Combat Magic looks really good on paper, but in practice, the fatigue penalty basically makes it last-ditch effort spell (e.g. it pushes the mana costs of other spells so high that there's no reason to activate it until I have no mana left for anything else). The only respite I get is that it means I can afford to ditch a non-caster when I get another mage, meaning I can go with a 3-mage + 1 noncaster party (probably going with Allistair-my rogue's skill is too low for most of the chests I've been encountering, and his banters with Morrigan are just amusing).
Is it just me, or is the game freaking hard? Didn't think it was that bad through the early parts, but the first Revenant fight really caught me off guard. Hits hard, a TON of life, and strong resistance to any spells I throw at it, save Force Field (which does me no good in actually killing it, though it does mean I can keep it out of the fight while I kill its buddies). Took me 3-4 tries to down the first one, and I still expend a bunch of poultices when I run into one, and can lose a party member.
I've got no really problem with large groups of weak enemies, since 2x Mind Blast, 2x Cone of Cold, 2x Force Field basically ensures that I'm slapping a bunch of ice blocks that can't fight back, but if there's a single big guy, I start having issues.
On November 07 2009 06:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote: One thing I will add. The one thing i love so far about this game is the ability to basically fuck yourself over with companion characters. Based on your actions in game, some will love you for them, others hate you. Balancing between trying to keep everyone happy or must a few happy gets hard. It can also screw you over if you pissed people off too much.
Eh, I found it pretty weak compared to Obsidian's implementation in KotOR 2 and NWN2. The fact that you can spam gifts on the party members that don't agree with you but you actually care about using totally spoils the system.
On November 07 2009 08:13 TheYango wrote:Is it just me, or is the game freaking hard? Didn't think it was that bad through the early parts, but the first Revenant fight really caught me off guard. Hits hard, a TON of life, and strong resistance to any spells I throw at it, save Force Field (which does me no good in actually killing it, though it does mean I can keep it out of the fight while I kill its buddies). Took me 3-4 tries to down the first one, and I still expend a bunch of poultices when I run into one, and can lose a party member.
I guess that would depend on your difficulty. I play on nightmare so generally even a small group of 6 enemies could wipe you if you're not really that careful. However with proper use of the skill it's not that bad. My party is Morrigan, Alistair, Leliana, Mage. I just have Morrigan cast some spells then transform her. I generally let Alistair do his own thing. He has more tactic slots than he has skills so I hardly have to micro him. Leliana is around for chests. I let her make useful poisons and stand back with bow and support, prolly give her traps in the future. Then my Mage who mains in Spirit skills and Blood with Heal. Mainly used for pure support, also comes with awesome Anti-Caster skills. So I have everything covered for the most part. Leliana/Morrigan can take out archers, and Morrigan/Alistair can handle melee with ease. I can do just about everything as Spirit/Blood. May not have the nuking power of other Mage setups but I can adapt fine to any situation and I have those awesome anti-caster skills.
On November 07 2009 08:55 KawaiiRice wrote: Installing this later tonight O_O;;;; Any advice like what kinda starting character or whatever? >.<
I started an alienage elf rogue first, and it pretty much bored the crap out of me. Having a lot more fun with my human mage currently though, since it's got more to do in fights - not the "me go here, poke your rear, rawr!"-way of the generic rogue.
On November 07 2009 08:50 noClue wrote: I guess that would depend on your difficulty. I play on nightmare so generally even a small group of 6 enemies could wipe you if you're not really that careful. However with proper use of the skill it's not that bad. My party is Morrigan, Alistair, Leliana, Mage. I just have Morrigan cast some spells then transform her. I generally let Alistair do his own thing. He has more tactic slots than he has skills so I hardly have to micro him. Leliana is around for chests. I let her make useful poisons and stand back with bow and support, prolly give her traps in the future. Then my Mage who mains in Spirit skills and Blood with Heal. Mainly used for pure support, also comes with awesome Anti-Caster skills. So I have everything covered for the most part. Leliana/Morrigan can take out archers, and Morrigan/Alistair can handle melee with ease. I can do just about everything as Spirit/Blood. May not have the nuking power of other Mage setups but I can adapt fine to any situation and I have those awesome anti-caster skills.
I was playing on Hard, but I pussied out and dropped to Normal once the first Revenant fight veritably kicked my ass and I found out I needed to fight 4 more (admittedly, they were probably doable on Hard if I did them AFTER finishing the rest of the dungeon, and they dropped equipment I can't use for another 5-10 levels). So far, it feels like the anti-caster skills are somewhat superfluous. Force Field reasonably locks out a caster until I can deal with it alone, at which point I can swarm everyone on him in melee, ensuring that he never gets another spell off (of course, there was that teleporting skeleton mage dude that summoned skeletons in waves, but I thought that fight was kind of gimmicky--if MY casters can't learn teleport spells, how come THEY can?). I imagine the mages become a more serious threat later on, but by then I suspect that Allistair's Templar abilities for that will have become available (though I still took a dip for Dispel Magic).
As far as my party composition, I have a similar party to you, but I swapped Morrigan's role and my main character's (since my main character got Arcane Warrior, and I spammed lots of points into Magic for armor reqs--meaning my mana pool doesn't go as deep as hers). I'm planning on finding the other mage party member after I finish the area I'm in. That way I can ditch Leliana (she hasn't been useful for most of the chests I've found anyway, and I figure I can backtrack with her if there's anything really worth getting).
Leliana really is a very meh character. She helps... but not that effective. The chests in this game a pretty terrible so it sorta ruins her role. Though I refuse to remove her just encase there is that one chest that holds something good lol. But w/e I just use her to make poisons right now for her and Alistair to use .
My plan with my Mage is to go Blood/Arcane and just load up with health. Use my life as energy and just upkeep a ton of spells. Arcane will give me better defense for survival. Might trade Leliana for Wynne. Just do a 3 Mage 1 Tank team. Mixed with Morrigans freezing skills, my various support and Wynnes heals could prove to be extremely strong. I just love Morrigans flexibility. She spams skills until she has no energy, then transform into something else until energy recharges then transforms back to cast more skills. So she's never useless to the party. I got that assassin guy also, maybe I'll trade Leliana for him, not sure what is better yet. Bow or Duel.
Haha, oghem, my main (warrior), morgana, and leilana are my current set up.
15 hours in and just finished doing the damn dwarven crap an dear god does that take alot of time. Maybe I should have just finished the second part of the redcliff stuff which I am now doing now. Fucking urn
On November 07 2009 17:32 Zooey wrote: It's a great game. I had a lot of laugh out loud moments with the dialogue. Alistair is the man.
I've never played BG and the first dungeon I entered I died quite quickly. Anyone having trouble make sure to pause the game, a LOT.
Any of the veterans think the combat tactics slots are useful, or do you prefer controlling each character yourself, or both?
Depends on what im fighting.
Certain fights I will let my characters go on auto as no matter what happens ill win. However, other fights are just like "STOP CHARGING IN AND DYING ARGGGG IM TRYING T OLURE"
On November 07 2009 17:32 Zooey wrote: It's a great game. I had a lot of laugh out loud moments with the dialogue. Alistair is the man.
I've never played BG and the first dungeon I entered I died quite quickly. Anyone having trouble make sure to pause the game, a LOT.
Any of the veterans think the combat tactics slots are useful, or do you prefer controlling each character yourself, or both?
they become useful for your designated tank, simply because he is boring to play. Other then that pause and micro.
something to note i use an elf mage( blood) and i mainly went through the primal tree ecept so far i swapped out the earth/nature section for a section in the spirit tree that gives the aoe stun telekinetic weapons and imprisonment. - Here's the note: if u try to micro and un-pause on another character for even 1 second my main character will infallibly waste imprisonment on some retarded enemy. wtfbbq
also WTF gold is soo hard to come by, im almost as broke in game as in real life.
edit: im like lvl 17 i just have 1 specialization , because .. well im undecided, and may remain undecided till i finish the game (lol)
anyone else find that flemeth is substantially harder to kill than the high dragon? im currently looking for some stupid fire resist because like an idiot i tend to sell everything balms and such because i pick up everything in order to make enough gold for pots, backpacks and spell/skill books for main
Being broke I think is normal. I'm just starting to get over 50 sovereigns now, and its mainly because of the location I cleared. It re-equipped most of my party + gave me alot of sellables
On November 07 2009 18:12 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Being broke I think is normal. I'm just starting to get over 50 sovereigns now, and its mainly because of the location I cleared. It re-equipped most of my party + gave me alot of sellables
ive cleared all the main recruit quests, and am stalling on + Show Spoiler +
returning with the urn for the arl,
to gear up to something decent.
and fucking alistar is a fail tank he is completely useless, the only reason i keep him is the witty banter. my party is mor ali and zev.
On November 07 2009 18:12 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Being broke I think is normal. I'm just starting to get over 50 sovereigns now, and its mainly because of the location I cleared. It re-equipped most of my party + gave me alot of sellables
ive cleared all the main recruit quests, and am stalling on + Show Spoiler +
returning with the urn for the arl,
to gear up to something decent.
and fucking alistar is a fail tank he is completely useless, the only reason i keep him is the witty banter. my party is mor ali and zev.
He is really really good at raping casters, thats about it.
I totally should have gotten the urn after I finished redcliffe, but well, I was retarded. The zone I tangled instead was absolutely deathly, so many deaths.
I'm having issues with the tactics. I can get my team to place status effects on themselves, but they always stand around after the gut they're fighting dies and need to be redirected to attack next enemy.
I've even tried 'nearest visible enemy -> attack' being my only tactic, just to see, and the guy still just stands around unless I tell him to attack
- Is there level scaling ? - Lot of respawn vilain ? - Can you roam freely on the map / zones and pick different quests. I don't mean like in Boridion but like in BG ( especially BG 1 ). - Size of outdoor zones compared to BG 1 ? - Closer to IWD ( fight oriendted ) or BG ( fight too but more dialogs and deeper story ).
On November 07 2009 08:13 TheYango wrote:Is it just me, or is the game freaking hard? Didn't think it was that bad through the early parts, but the first Revenant fight really caught me off guard. Hits hard, a TON of life, and strong resistance to any spells I throw at it, save Force Field (which does me no good in actually killing it, though it does mean I can keep it out of the fight while I kill its buddies). Took me 3-4 tries to down the first one, and I still expend a bunch of poultices when I run into one, and can lose a party member.
I guess that would depend on your difficulty. I play on nightmare so generally even a small group of 6 enemies could wipe you if you're not really that careful. However with proper use of the skill it's not that bad. My party is Morrigan, Alistair, Leliana, Mage. I just have Morrigan cast some spells then transform her. I generally let Alistair do his own thing. He has more tactic slots than he has skills so I hardly have to micro him. Leliana is around for chests. I let her make useful poisons and stand back with bow and support, prolly give her traps in the future. Then my Mage who mains in Spirit skills and Blood with Heal. Mainly used for pure support, also comes with awesome Anti-Caster skills. So I have everything covered for the most part. Leliana/Morrigan can take out archers, and Morrigan/Alistair can handle melee with ease. I can do just about everything as Spirit/Blood. May not have the nuking power of other Mage setups but I can adapt fine to any situation and I have those awesome anti-caster skills.
I'm playing on normal right now but I haven't had that much trouble so far. I still need to think in the fights though and a simple mistake like walking into a trap with one character can wipe my entire party in an important fight. I think I'm going to try playing on hard or nightmare next time around.
I have the exact same party composition as you but my mage is focused on primal magic only. I have been thinking about mixing in some Spirit and maybe heal. Morrigan is my healer atm. What are the exact differences between the difficulty levels other than more friendly fire damage? It just seems that some of the opponents I face deal damage a lot faster than any of my non-mage characters. Last time I checked my main character had done 75% of the parties damage. It feels to me like the rest of the party is just there to support the mage/mages. Do I just have shitty gear, terrible builds or awful tactics or are the other classes viable on their own if played right? I just can't imagine a successful party without at least one offensive mage. I often just end up kiting my opponents in hard fights, since I can't keep up with their rate of damage, which is kind of boring.
On a completely unrelated note, has anyone checked how the experience/level system works exactly? If I were to play the game solo would I gain 4x as much experience? If so would the opponents level scale with me and nullify any point of soloing?
Playing on nightmare setting. Pretty damn tough. Nearly every fight is a challenge :o. About 10 hours in so far. Enjoying it alot. Certainly no bg2 but you will enjoy it !
On November 07 2009 18:06 Etherone wrote: Here's the note: if u try to micro and un-pause on another character for even 1 second my main character will infallibly waste imprisonment on some retarded enemy. wtfbbq
That's because the default tactic targets it on any enemy that is "rank Normal or Higher". I turned that off. The worst part was when he'd cast Crushing Prison on someone I just Force Fielded with Morrigan, triggering a spell combo and blasting all my party members. Reload right there.
On November 08 2009 00:43 DrainX wrote: On a completely unrelated note, has anyone checked how the experience/level system works exactly? If I were to play the game solo would I gain 4x as much experience? If so would the opponents level scale with me and nullify any point of soloing?
I think it uses KotOR's system of distributing XP to party members not with you, so that wouldn't work. At least, I think it does, since my dog gained a level without me using him at all.
Just got Wynne in the Circle Tower, so I've now got 3 mages. Mage fights haven't been that bad, since most of them can't resist a combination of Cone of Cold, Paralysis, and Crushing Prison. Wynne's definitely overinvested in healing spells, so it'll take some time to get her into some more damaging spells (Earthquake is good, but a bit unwieldy fighting in close quarters).
Yes. It's supposed to be "within a range", but I have a strong suspicion that Bioware just got lazy and set the ranges from 1-50 and left it there.
It's kind of necessary, though, if the combat difficulty through all 4 planets (it sure as hell feels like you're charging around to different planets to get the pieces of the Star Map at least) is to stay consistent.
- Lot of respawn vilain ?
Not automatically, but sometimes for quests (a bit annoying actually--having some bears for a quest spawn in a bandit camp I JUST CLEARED breaks the realism).
- Can you roam freely on the map / zones and pick different quests. I don't mean like in Boridion but like in BG ( especially BG 1 ).
Yes. There's less backtracking than in BG1, but I was very pleased to find that there's still a healthy amount.
- Size of outdoor zones compared to BG 1 ?
Probably of about similar sizes, but there are less zones per outdoor area (e.g. Cloakwood in BG1 is 3-4 zones, while Brecilian Forest here is only 2), and their design is more linear (single entrance-single exit as opposed to being able to exit off any edge of the map in BG).
- Closer to IWD ( fight oriendted ) or BG ( fight too but more dialogs and deeper story ).
Tries to be more story-oriented, but IMO is better at being fight-oriented. Some of the side-quests and parts of the story actually catch your attention very well, but a lot of it is typical David Gaider tripe, and he's mined the cliches one too many time for my tastes (as if the LotR vibes and ASoIaF ripoffs weren't bad enough, you pick up strong KotOR and BG2 feelings as well--the Grey Wardens feel much like the Jedi Order in KotOR I/II after a certain event happens, running around the world map feels like collecting pieces of the Star Map, and collecting cool points with Morrigan feels like the same with Viconia in BG2).
Finally got this working on my pc today (i had to buy some new stuff for my crappy old pc). Anyways, now it's running, not perfectly but still. Just played the beginning and I'm happy so far. Not too sure i like the path picking in character creation but i assume it's plenty of chances to affect your own path later on as well. Really like it so far^^ and i feel the baldurs influence is there.
Thinking of picking this up, but anyone know if my laptop can run this on medium settings (Which will be better than the graphics on the 360 right?) @ 1680 x 945 the native screen resolution at a decent frame rate of 30 or higher?
Core 2 Duo T5800 @ 2Ghz 4 GB ram Vista home 9600M GT
On November 08 2009 03:12 Shivaz wrote: Thinking of picking this up, but anyone know if my laptop can run this on medium settings (Which will be better than the graphics on the 360 right?) @ 1680 x 945 the native screen resolution at a decent frame rate of 30 or higher?
Core 2 Duo T5800 @ 2Ghz 4 GB ram Vista home 9600M GT
OS: Windows XP with SP3 CPU: Intel Core 2 (or equivalent) running at 1.4Ghz or greater AMD X2 (or equivalent) running at 1.8Ghz or greater RAM: 1GB or more Video: ATI Radeon X850 128MB or greater NVIDIA GeForce 6600 GT 128MB or greater DVD ROM (Physical copy) 20 GB HD space
Windows Vista Minimum Specifications
OS: Windows Vista with SP1 CPU: Intel Core 2 (or equivalent) running at 1.6Ghz or greater AMD X2 (or equivalent) running at 2.2GHZ or greater RAM: 1.5 GB or more Video: ATI Radeon X1550 256MB or greater NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT 256MB or greater DVD ROM (Physical copy) 20 GB HD space
Recommended Specifications
CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad 2.4Ghz Processor or equivalent RAM: 4 GB (Vista) or 2 GB (XP) Video: ATI 3850 512 MB or greater NVIDIA 8800GTS 512 MB or greater DVD ROM (Physical copy) 20 GB HD space
On November 08 2009 03:12 Shivaz wrote: Thinking of picking this up, but anyone know if my laptop can run this on medium settings (Which will be better than the graphics on the 360 right?) @ 1680 x 945 the native screen resolution at a decent frame rate of 30 or higher?
Core 2 Duo T5800 @ 2Ghz 4 GB ram Vista home 9600M GT
OS: Windows XP with SP3 CPU: Intel Core 2 (or equivalent) running at 1.4Ghz or greater AMD X2 (or equivalent) running at 1.8Ghz or greater RAM: 1GB or more Video: ATI Radeon X850 128MB or greater NVIDIA GeForce 6600 GT 128MB or greater DVD ROM (Physical copy) 20 GB HD space
Windows Vista Minimum Specifications
OS: Windows Vista with SP1 CPU: Intel Core 2 (or equivalent) running at 1.6Ghz or greater AMD X2 (or equivalent) running at 2.2GHZ or greater RAM: 1.5 GB or more Video: ATI Radeon X1550 256MB or greater NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT 256MB or greater DVD ROM (Physical copy) 20 GB HD space
Recommended Specifications
CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad 2.4Ghz Processor or equivalent RAM: 4 GB (Vista) or 2 GB (XP) Video: ATI 3850 512 MB or greater NVIDIA 8800GTS 512 MB or greater DVD ROM (Physical copy) 20 GB HD space
Yes I know that, I was looking for an answer from someone running the game on a laptop with similar specs.
Well imho you need to try the game and see for yourself. It's the best option (unless you actually need to spent $$ for it, to try it) coz someone can have similar machine and still get different performances than you (better or lower).
On November 08 2009 03:12 Shivaz wrote: Thinking of picking this up, but anyone know if my laptop can run this on medium settings (Which will be better than the graphics on the 360 right?) @ 1680 x 945 the native screen resolution at a decent frame rate of 30 or higher?
Core 2 Duo T5800 @ 2Ghz 4 GB ram Vista home 9600M GT
If not I guess I may have to get this for my 360.
assuming the 9600m gt is about the same as a 9600 gt, you should be able to play medium/high
Recommended: o OS: Windows XP (SP3) or Windows Vista (SP1) or Windows 7 o Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo 2.4 Ghz or AMD Phenom II X2 Dual-Core 2.7 Ghz Processor or equivalent o Memory: 2 GB (3GB Vista and Windows 7) o Graphics: ATI 3850 512 MB or NVidia 8800GTS 512MB or greater o DirectX®: DirectX (November 2007) o Hard Drive: 20 GB HD space o Sound: Direct X Compatible Sound Card
bioware lowered the recommended cpu just before release
I'll probably download a cracked version too to see how it runs on my PC and decide between playing it on PC or X360. Or is there a free trial or something somewhere?
On November 08 2009 03:12 Shivaz wrote: Thinking of picking this up, but anyone know if my laptop can run this on medium settings (Which will be better than the graphics on the 360 right?) @ 1680 x 945 the native screen resolution at a decent frame rate of 30 or higher?
Core 2 Duo T5800 @ 2Ghz 4 GB ram Vista home 9600M GT
OS: Windows XP with SP3 CPU: Intel Core 2 (or equivalent) running at 1.4Ghz or greater AMD X2 (or equivalent) running at 1.8Ghz or greater RAM: 1GB or more Video: ATI Radeon X850 128MB or greater NVIDIA GeForce 6600 GT 128MB or greater DVD ROM (Physical copy) 20 GB HD space
Windows Vista Minimum Specifications
OS: Windows Vista with SP1 CPU: Intel Core 2 (or equivalent) running at 1.6Ghz or greater AMD X2 (or equivalent) running at 2.2GHZ or greater RAM: 1.5 GB or more Video: ATI Radeon X1550 256MB or greater NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT 256MB or greater DVD ROM (Physical copy) 20 GB HD space
Recommended Specifications
CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad 2.4Ghz Processor or equivalent RAM: 4 GB (Vista) or 2 GB (XP) Video: ATI 3850 512 MB or greater NVIDIA 8800GTS 512 MB or greater DVD ROM (Physical copy) 20 GB HD space
Actually system requirements released by developers are almost always not enough, however I think your computer will be fine, my friend has a 8600GT and runs everything on high with 40fps. I was planning to run this on my laptop with my 3470, I think you'll be fine with medium settings.
On November 08 2009 09:16 writer22816 wrote: Actually system requirements released by developers are almost always not enough, however I think your computer will be fine, my friend has a 8600GT and runs everything on high with 40fps. I was planning to run this on my laptop with my 3470, I think you'll be fine with medium settings.
I was actually surprised at how well the game runs on less-than-optimal hardware. It's a nice change from the Aurora/Electron Engine, which was pretty poorly optimized.
Supposedly people have had issues with memory leaks and load times slowly ramping up over several hours of play, but IMO if you're playing for that long, you should take a break anyway. Still, it seems like a pretty weird decision by Bioware to patch the game by making it easier before they fix the memory leak issues.
I'll probably purchase this after exams next week. Also keep in mind 9600M GT is no where close to 9600GTs or probably even 8600 GTs cause its a laptop graphics card.
On November 08 2009 09:16 writer22816 wrote: Actually system requirements released by developers are almost always not enough, however I think your computer will be fine, my friend has a 8600GT and runs everything on high with 40fps. I was planning to run this on my laptop with my 3470, I think you'll be fine with medium settings.
I was actually surprised at how well the game runs on less-than-optimal hardware. It's a nice change from the Aurora/Electron Engine, which was pretty poorly optimized.
Supposedly people have had issues with memory leaks and load times slowly ramping up over several hours of play, but IMO if you're playing for that long, you should take a break anyway. Still, it seems like a pretty weird decision by Bioware to patch the game by making it easier before they fix the memory leak issues.
I didnt know there was a patch already :O
* Fixed potential corruption of character statistics * Fixed portrait appearance sliders when importing a character from the downloadable * Character Creator Fixed import for preset face settings from the downloadable * Character Creator Made Easy difficulty easier * Slightly increased attack, defense, and damage scores for all party members at Normal difficulty * Fixed video issues when running on a very wide screen display, including ATI Eyefinity displays
WTF. I guess ill just finish the game before I download any patches and then play it at >normal in the future :/
*edit* or maybe its possible to change the difficulty after you have started a campaign?
On November 08 2009 10:21 DrainX wrote: *edit* or maybe its possible to change the difficulty after you have started a campaign?
You can change the difficulty as you go, in particular changing it for particularly hard encounters (I know it works from my run-ins with the Revenants in the Brecilian Ruins.
After having now racked up about 30 hours of gameplay and having done many quests I (inevitably) have some thoughts about the game.
Let me say first of all that Dragon Age:Origins is a fantastic game in it's own right. However, the biggest problem for me is Bioware's claim that it is the spiritual successor to the Baldur's Gate series. While I do see elements from Baldur's Gate I believe it's still closer to Neverwinter Nights. To me the pinnacle of RPGs was reached with Baldur's Gate 2 + ToB, not only because of the quality of those games but because of the shift away from isometric to fully 3D graphics. Under the isometric perspective it is far easier to micromanage your party - it's a lot harder under 3D. I think this is part of the reason Neverwinter Nights focused so much more on the single character, with a henchman who you could assign simple orders like 'attack' or 'defend' instead of something like the exact spell. But without the party focus the game lost the depth and richness of using different class skills and abilities and as such lost the tactical element to battles - becoming a lot more like Diablo 2. Yes, it's possible to pause the game and assign commands to everyone but in the 3D view it can be hard to target the mages at the back of a huge room or indeed not be able to target them at all because they are behind too many other targets. What's more, switching to the "tactical view" to get the isometric feel still locks the camera on the player making it impossible to move around the map so you can actually target enemies with ease. Fortunately, it's not a frequent issue in the game.
Also, Bioware watered down the class depth. Just compare the character creation screens for Dragon Age and Baldur's Gate 2. Then compare the spells available between the 2 games: Dragon Age forces you to go down a certain spell tree so you must take on spells that are rarely used so you can get something you want later on. This reduction in flexibility, as well as reduced number of spells, makes the battles less interesting. I can admit the skills available to fighters is now increased and there is incentive to go for something other than a few abilities (Greater Whirlwind is the staple in ToB) so in this respect maybe things are better. Especially with the stamina feature. And yet, the biggest gripe I have with the combat is the use of potions. Most battles come down to using a potion every so often - nothing wrong with this - expect that it doesn't affect the cooldown on when you can next cast spells. For example, in Baldur's Gate every action you make takes a turn and that includes using a potion. If you use it it means you can't attack again until the next turn arrives, thus making it a more strategic choice. Nothing like that in Dragon Age: in a sense it feels like I'm playing Diablo 2 or some MMORPG. And you can go through Baldur's Gate without using a single health potion by relying on excellent preparation beforehand and then executing a particular strategy at the start (usually the most crucial moment, otherwise things can get hectic).
^ I agree with everything you stated. I do think that is a general problem with all "next gen" games. They are to simple and aimed at the mainstream market so that casual players can get into them easily. For any hardcore fan like any Baldurs Gate fan it just isn't enough. At least they gave you choices this time. Dragon Age is definitly a step forward from Mass Effect, yet it still plays more like ME than BG which makes the fights just to simple and repetitive imho.
P.S. The issues I keep getting with my DLC such as having to have the DA Content Updater service running and constant authorization issues for content I've already downloaded and played with my Bioware account is really quite a hassle.
I agree with a lot of the things you say. I think you get used to the camera though. I can't think of a better way to solve the problem if they are going to stick with a 3D world. Maybe a free camera with fog of war. Fog of war would look kind of stupid in large open areas from a first person perspective though. My biggest gripe with the camera is when you want to look as far away as possible but from a perspective or when you want to look far away but around a corner. The only way you can do the first is to use the perspective mode and then move the camera as far as you want to, then aim the corner of the screen in the direction you want to look, extending it slightly. The only way you can do the second is by switching between the two camera modes, catching glimpses of what is there.I hate the middle ground where I have to abuse the UI to do what I want instead of either completely disallowing me to do it or just allowing me.
I agree that the character creation isn't as much fun as it used to be in BG 1 and 2 but I think the character development after that is done well. (I used to sit for about an hour rolling my main characters starting attributes ) In BG there wasn't all that much you could specialize in while you leveled your character. Your character was mostly defined by how you created it from lvl 1, what items you used and how you played the character. I like the idea of carefully choosing which spells to use, how far to go into each sub tree, which skills you can do without etc. instead of randomly picking up or buying spell scrolls along the way.
I like how almost every major battle in DAO forces you to adapt your strategy, at least if you are playing at a difficulty setting suiting you. I'm not going to spoil what I faced where but my usual strategy up to that point was to just fireball->earthquake->inferno into the enemy group then pick of anyone who survived. So after I had cast earthquake and when I'm channeling inferno the boss uses some Mortal Kombat Scorpion "Get over here!" on my mage pulling him into the earthquake and the group of monsters and away from my group.
I played for 32 hours on my mage on normal diff. but have dropped that character now. It's hard for me to continue playing a character when I know I made many mistakes in her design early on, also I'm starting to realize that Normal diff. is a bit easy. It doesn't force good party composition on you the way I'm hoping Hard will. Just started a Rogue on Hard now. Maybe that will be more challenging
I have a question for everyone playing the game on a Console. Does playing the game without a mouse work well? I just can't imagine how it would work. I almost only use my mouse when I play. How do you move your party members to specific positions or aim large aoe spells on the right pixel so that only enemies get hit etc?
DrainX: I watched a few videos of the console version since apparently there are reviews that say DAO is more a console game than a PC game (they are wrong and just unintelligent reviewers). The gameplay for DAO changes dramatically IMO with console version. It becomes more of an Action RPG than an Adventure/Strategic RPG, whatever these are categorized as. So basically just play an average RPG game on a console and it'll play exactly the same roughly. I'm not even sure console can pause, it might all be active battles. At least I've never seen a console video pause.
I LOVE MY MAGE lol. Playing as a Blood/Arcane. Just upkeep a ton of buffs and use your life to fuel your spells. Amazing, just amazing lol. Though you can't let the AI take over at all.
Also there was sum1 who said over on page 9 that you HAVE to follow a specific tree. That's just completely false. If you want say your warrior to play a specific role like only defense, then yeah you have to stay in that tree. However you can still easily create say a Offensive warrior with both Bow skills and Melee skills so that he can adapt better to a certain situation. There is nothing stopping you from going multiple trees. It's all simply based how you want to play out the game.
I agree with most people, not as good as the older games but still considering what has been released lately. I'm very happy to have a new game out that is similar to BG.
Tip for anyone having issues on Nightmare. I don't play hard so I'm not sure if it's as difficult really. In nightmare you HAVE to setup ambushes. It pushes the game to the whole Strategy > Action level. Like never run into a room. Place melee on either side of the door, place mage near the back then use a rogue to lay traps and lure, or something similar (that's my setup lol). But since my mage can survive everything now, I just give her a sword and shield, throw her in the front line and go Battle Mage style. Party: Mage, Alistair, Zevran, Morrigan. (killed Wynne D: ). When ambushed, I have plenty of stuns and snares to stop them badies. Most of them go straight to Alistair anyways lol. Just like with SC, positioning is everything! :D.
Anyone beat a dragon yet? I did :D, it was cheap. It destroyed my melee guys and got stuck in the process. My mages killed it with ease haha.
On November 08 2009 23:26 DrainX wrote: I like how almost every major battle in DAO forces you to adapt your strategy, at least if you are playing at a difficulty setting suiting you. I'm not going to spoil what I faced where but my usual strategy up to that point was to just fireball->earthquake->inferno into the enemy group then pick of anyone who survived. So after I had cast earthquake and when I'm channeling inferno the boss uses some Mortal Kombat Scorpion "Get over here!" on my mage pulling him into the earthquake and the group of monsters and away from my group.
I played for 32 hours on my mage on normal diff. but have dropped that character now. It's hard for me to continue playing a character when I know I made many mistakes in her design early on, also I'm starting to realize that Normal diff. is a bit easy. It doesn't force good party composition on you the way I'm hoping Hard will. Just started a Rogue on Hard now. Maybe that will be more challenging
Hmm. For me it came down to how many potions I can spam. The enemy you're talking about must be the Revenant, who I agree is a lot of trouble. Especially when he's with some undead henchmen. At the end of the first battle I had with him I only had Alistair alive and kept using lesser and normal health potions while he slugged it out. That's what I dislike: heavy reliance on potions with no penalty for doing so, since they tend to come quite cheaply. Also, I find a lot of enemies spawn in around an area in flanking positions so it's hard to hit them all at once with the AOE.
Good luck with the rogue. At the moment I'm still enjoying the power of my arcane warrior/blood mage despite a few poor choices in spells. But it's okay when he has more armor than Alistair and deals the majority of party damage Perhaps normal difficulty is too easy, although my choice was based on watching some video reviews saying the game was "hard even on easy". Oh well, sometimes it's nice to have an easy time.
I agree with a lot of complaints here and would like to add a couple more, but not before praysing how good the game actually is. it is by far the best 3d rpg that i've ever played. The dungeon design and especially the dwarfen area overall is just amazingly epic, i don't think I've ever seen a better dungeon than the ortan thaig/dead trenches part in any game i've ever played. the cutscenes and party interaction are also superior to any other rpg i've played so far, so any complaints are really just to show that while the game is incredibly epic and should be played by anyone, it still has it's weaknesses. For example the fact that the map does not properly show whether you can pass or not was really annoying early on. I think bioware underestimated people's will to discover secret places, trying to pass where it looks like you can't. Fortunately, after about 30 hours of play, i can say don't bother. I have not discovered a single secret passage by trying to pass dead ends. If it looks like you can't go any further, it's safe to assume that you actually can't. Also, why do they add such a ton of "crap loot" that's only good for selling when you are capped at 70 items.(i know you can buy backpacks but it still seems too little)
also, a four character party just seems too small to cover all aspects. A perfect setup would be 2 melee, mage, healer, rogue, so which one should you leave out? I played a downloaded version but now that my original arrived, i wanna start new. a melee rogue seems pretty useless to me, to have him be effective you will probably have to control only him in a fight, which would be a pretty bad idea overall. so right now i am deciding between a 2warrior/2mage, 2warrior/mage/bowrogue and 1warrior/2mage/bowrogue combo. It's annoying to pass all these chests without being able to open them, do you think it's worth keeping a rogue in your party for it? I felt like leliana does very little damage overall and Zevran just dies way too easily, so the only way I'm gonna play leliana is by going for full out support, getting high cunning and making her a bard/ranger, but it still don't know if that's enough to make her worth dropping a melee or mage for. Dunno if there is anything really good to loot in chests that you can only reach with a rogue. Of course you could clear everything and just go back with a rogue in your party to open chests, but that sounds way too annoying.
how do you guys play an arcane/warrior bloodmage then? because this was my idea too. is it actually possible to do melee damage with buffs or do you just get level 1 arcane warrior with lots of magic/const and low willpower and just activate the life instead of mana ability and go pure magic damage? seems like the best option to me so far. Another thing, do you consider a weapon/shield warrior useful? I have the feeling that he can't really "tank" a group of mobs at all, which would make him just a warrior with low damage and high armor. did you find it possible to actually make a mob or group attack your weapon/shield guy? what are your overall experiences about the best party setup?
I was planning to start another game to play along with some different choices etc. as a Mage, since in my Rogue game I end up controlling the party's casters most of the time anyway (constantly guiding to better positions etc.)
I'll probably try to build him/her around elemental spells and the curse(s) that weakens opponent's resistances against them. Could this work? or am I better off with some sort of pure support with heal, stun and whatnot?
A question. Are the DLCs worth it? I'm kinda pissed that they set so many content aside as DLCs rather than keeping them within the expensive main game...
Ok just played the game for several hours straight. It's good, definately a good play. It reminds me alot about Oblivion and Lord of the Rings.Although it's not as "free" as Oblivion was it has alot of looks that reminds me about it. The gameplay and fighting system is really fun from a strategic point of view, I am playing on normal and you still have to prepare for atleast the major battles. I won't spoil the story but I am an Elven Mage and I think it works good so far. I will try and finish this game befor TSL starts... god I must have!
On November 09 2009 17:22 orgolove wrote: A question. Are the DLCs worth it? I'm kinda pissed that they set so many content aside as DLCs rather than keeping them within the expensive main game...
Yeah I'm curious about this too, dl'ing game right now and I can't wait after reading these comments!
I don't like how you can't force open locks anymore. I don't like how you can't pre-emptively target enemies instead either forcing into a cutscene where your whole party follows you so you can't strategically place them around a room before hand or having to get so close to an enemy to trigger their hostility then run away again.
Anyway, I'm sure arcane warrior/blood mage can either be played as a battlemage (heavy armor plus strong weapon) and then using a few AOEs every so often. Personally, I can't accept the increase in fatigue combat magic gives so I just equip Blood Dragon armor but everything else mage orientated giving about 26% fatigue. Then I just cast until mana runs out, in which case I then switch to blood mage or the Blood Power spell that converts health to mana. Blood Mage is faster to activate, although it depends on the situation.
A question. Are the DLCs worth it? I'm kinda pissed that they set so many content aside as DLCs rather than keeping them within the expensive main game...
I would say they aren't. Have you ever played Throne of Bhaal and experienced the awesomeness of Watcher's Keep? I was very much hoping Warden's Keep would be similar but it's not. Not in the least! Watcher's Keep is far superior in terms of difficulty of battles and puzzles to be solved as well as being many times the size of Warden's Keep. Indeed, the last floor of Watcher's Keep and the final revelation are great fun and very memorable - Warden's Keep lacks the epic scale in that it doesn't provide many new items, doesn't take very long to complete, story is okay and on top of that the lack of challenge mentioned above. The Stone Prisoner is even shorter and even less worth the money.
On November 09 2009 19:14 Milton Friedman wrote: I don't like how you can't force open locks anymore. I don't like how you can't pre-emptively target enemies instead either forcing into a cutscene where your whole party follows you so you can't strategically place them around a room before hand or having to get so close to an enemy to trigger their hostility then run away again.
Agree with the first one, but the second one sort of makes sense. It's not like the enemies would just *let* you set yourself in strategic positions around the room. Being able to do so is very metagame-y.
On November 09 2009 19:14 Milton Friedman wrote: I would say they aren't. Have you ever played Throne of Bhaal and experienced the awesomeness of Watcher's Keep? I was very much hoping Warden's Keep would be similar but it's not. Not in the least! Watcher's Keep is far superior in terms of difficulty of battles and puzzles to be solved as well as being many times the size of Warden's Keep. Indeed, the last floor of Watcher's Keep and the final revelation are great fun and very memorable - Warden's Keep lacks the epic scale in that it doesn't provide many new items, doesn't take very long to complete, story is okay and on top of that the lack of challenge mentioned above. The Stone Prisoner is even shorter and even less worth the money.
Definitely agree with this, though Watcher's Keep is sort of an unrealistic bar to beat. The only real similarity between it and Warden's Keep is the name, and I haven't expected Bioware to be capable of putting out something that caliber for a long time. Still, I don't consider $7 for a lackluster dungeon to be a worthwhile investment. Maybe in the future if it's part of a bundle or something, but not on its own.
I thought Stone Prisoner was free with all copies of the game? Why would it need to be "worth the money"?
On November 10 2009 00:30 [X]Ken_D wrote: Is there a demo available? After coming from Mass Effect, my #1 rpg of all time, I'm not too fond of the look in Dragon Age.
Uh, IMO Mass Effect is the worst RPG Bioware has put out to date (NWN's included campaign is worse, but redeemed by the editor, and Jade Empire, while probably a worse game, doesn't count as an RPG to me). And this is coming from someone who hasn't been a fan of Bioware games for a long time.
@ the question of effectiveness of Sheild Warrior and Arcane/Blood Mage. Since I use both... + Show Spoiler +
Shield Warrior: Very effective IMO. He never dies, rarely have to micro him (just need to get him into position). Enemies always target him first. The only thing you have to watch out for is the other party members pulling enemies away from him. So when I play, the first thing I do when entering combat is do Full Party Selection > Target (usually the middle one). Then I micro my Mage nukes and shutdown spells. Like locking down a boss or using my blood magic to stun a group of rangers. Ect. Basically I'm microing my ranged to counter other ranged. No melee ever pulls off my warrior. Only time it happens is if you attack an enemy that the warrior isn't attacking. Damage wise, he is fairly low, but that's fine for me because I have Assassin/Duel Rogue that mops up the enemies for the warrior.
Arcane/Blood Mage: Pretty tricky I think. Theres a few ways you can tackle this really. You can use up your energy, then load up on upkeep skills. Then use you life to fuel the rest of the spells. When needing a heal, disable blood magic and heal. For the most part I don't do much melee with my Mage due to the fact that I'm already using my life for energy. What the Arcane Warrior does for the Blood Mage is it gives unparalleled defense for the Mage. This is vital for the Blood Mage. I thought about it and it was a toss up between Spirit Healer and Arcane Warrior. Since BM reduces healing, SH is pretty useless. Just grab the Heal spell and that's all you need. You have to remove the blood magic spell to heal anyways so yeah it's useless. The area where Blood Mage is most vulnerable is when in the blood mode. You can't spare any health at all. Taking damage is very very bad obviously. Higher chance to die and less spells you can cast. So the amazing defenses of the Arcane Warrior allow the Blood Mage to survive in those situations where you may accidentally pull an enemy. While in Blood Mage mode I usually upkeep like 8 spells. So literally I have no mana due to the huge upkeeps. I upkeep 2 weapon spells, bunch of defense and spell buffs.
As far as I've heard though Battle Mage is a very viable strategy. Some people say that the Arcane Warrior surpasses a warriors defense and survivability. Their damage is just a lot lower.
They're interesting and short. You gain some pretty cool armor (depending on choices) and 2 fairly useful spells? One of them is a Mana/Stamina restore, restores a heafty chunk, very useful. The other is just a standard damaging spell. Both blood magic, so they cost life. The other DLC for the golem is pretty stupid, you just get a useless golem lol.
I'll add my irritation with this game :D. I hate chests! They don't give anything good! Completely useless... All the good armor you get from fighting bosses or buying from merchants anyways :-/.
As far as parties... I favor Mage/Alistair/Zevran/(Morrigan/Wynne), Mage/Alistair/Leliana/Morrigan. Obviously I like Mages, but not for their nukes. They have the best spells to lockdown enemies. In the 2nd grouping, I use the bow for traps and high ranked poisons. My melee guys all have 1 into poison. So, I have 2 upkept weapon buffs, along with the poison buffs . Makes melee/bow very very dangerous.
You can exceed the party limit with cheats :3. The only downfall is you cannot actually control the spells of the additional characters. The AI however can cast those spells. So basically once you pass the 4 character limit, additional characters are "half" NPC's. You can still select and move them though...
add -enabledeveloperconsole to a shortcut of DAOrigins.exe or a shortcut from Steam's "Game" list.
When in game: TILDE type: runscript addparty (name)
dlc items are horribly imbalanced, both the ones you get for free and those you need to "work" for (which require a minimal amount of effort)... kidna breaks the overall rhytm of the game and the sense of achievment. also the dlc quests arent too terribly interesting or challenging
On November 10 2009 00:30 [X]Ken_D wrote: Is there a demo available? After coming from Mass Effect, my #1 rpg of all time, I'm not too fond of the look in Dragon Age.
Uh, IMO Mass Effect is the worst RPG Bioware has put out to date (NWN's included campaign is worse, but redeemed by the editor, and Jade Empire, while probably a worse game, doesn't count as an RPG to me). And this is coming from someone who hasn't been a fan of Bioware games for a long time.
We have the same tastes in Bioware games. =D
After playing for a few hours, I just finished Lothering and just hit level 7 on my main. I'm playing a dual-wielding rogue that I'm planning to be an assassin/duelist.
I loved BG's isometric views but found myself playing mostly in third person view in Dragon Age. The issue for me is that I see too little in Dragon Age's overhead view. It's just not zoomed out enough to be effective.
I'm playing at normal right now and don't plan to install the patch until I end my first game. Not sure why they had to nerf normal that fast. It's been a decent challenge so far and I've had to fight quite a few battles multiple times. I think the worst was one of the bandit camps in Lothering, though that's partly me being anal about not letting even one party member die even though I'm in a town and being extremely conservative on potions.
I'm playing a human noble rogue and using Alistair, Morrigan and Leilana in my party. I'm leveling Warrior and Sword/Shield talents for him but he still seems pretty squishy as a tank. I just leave him to the AI to use most of the time because his talents are the spam variety and the AI does better on those.
I'm not a big fan of Leilana combat wise. Her talents and default combat tactics are all bow oriented. But for some reason, she keeps switching to melee and I have to switch her back manually to her bow. It's not like she's that close to melee range most of those times, either. Her damage output is pretty low as well.
My main char is a rogue. He's very squishy and it seems like Alistair can't keep threat off of him even when using the Threaten talent. I run around to backstab and it seems like mobs keep turning to me immediately. It's getting to be not worth the hassle to position and only get a single backstab in before a few mobs turn on me.
Morrigan is very good so far. My only complaint is that I just get her and her starting talents and spells are all over the place. Mind blast, winter's grasp and lightning are what I use the most currently. Horror is pretty decent, too.
Question for people, how do you manage poisons? I tried them, the ones I did have a 1 minute duration and it's a bit of a pain to keep applying them. Do you guys buy a lot of flasks and herbs and just down one every battle?
it's crashing A LOT for me, does anyone have the same problems? It's not overheating or anything and my computer basically NEVER crashing in any other game.
It's been stable for me so far. Bioware has normally been terrible at optimization and loading times but this one is actually pretty decent. I had really low expectations for it. The load times are still there, but they don't seem to be as obnoxious as Jade Empire's.
I am totally amazed that my computer can run this game fairly well! I love it so far, highly addicting!
I'm a bit curious though. I *want* to be a blood mage, because I think that sounds like the most potent killing-pew-pew specialization for a mage, but does that doom me to be evil? Will Allistair or whatnot hate me if I pick that one? lol.
Also, Morrigan is a bitch. Is she worth keeping around? She dissaproves of basically everything I do, and I'm quite tempted to just kill her for the lulz. Will I be able to find a replacement mage later?
I also picked up the rogue priest lady, but she doesn't seem to be doing a whole lot in fights. She's mainly useful for opening locked chests. I've tried fooling around with her tactics AI, but she just doesn't do much damage in battle at all, T_T;
On November 10 2009 06:44 Haemonculus wrote: I am totally amazed that my computer can run this game fairly well! I love it so far, highly addicting!
I'm a bit curious though. I *want* to be a blood mage, because I think that sounds like the most potent killing-pew-pew specialization for a mage, but does that doom me to be evil? Will Allistair or whatnot hate me if I pick that one? lol.
Also, Morrigan is a bitch. Is she worth keeping around? She dissaproves of basically everything I do, and I'm quite tempted to just kill her for the lulz. Will I be able to find a replacement mage later?
I also picked up the rogue priest lady, but she doesn't seem to be doing a whole lot in fights. She's mainly useful for opening locked chests. I've tried fooling around with her tactics AI, but she just doesn't do much damage in battle at all, T_T;
Whats your computer spec and the settings + frame rate you are running at?
I just picked up Morrigan. I like her so far. The rogue priest is kinda useless, though, since my PC is a rogue as well. She also keeps switching to melee even though her tactics have no melee in them. The only other mage companion is Wynne and it seems 2-3 mage party is the most fun.
On November 10 2009 05:49 Shauni wrote: it's crashing A LOT for me, does anyone have the same problems? It's not overheating or anything and my computer basically NEVER crashing in any other game.
Try underclocking your graphics card 10% on cpu and mem (I used rivatuner), that completely fixed the crashes for me. And yeah, I had the exact same problem. A solution until they patch it.
The game still runs smoothly, though I'm playing windowed 1024x768.
On November 10 2009 02:13 TheYango wrote: I thought Stone Prisoner was free with all copies of the game? Why would it need to be "worth the money"?
Ah, you are quite possibly right. I bought the digital collector's edition so I got everything and before I registered my collector's edition stuff I saw on the DLC tab that The Stone Prisoner was available for "1200 points" so I figured people were having to pay for it. But given how short it is that really would be a taint on Bioware's reputation.
Stone Prisoner is free for all NEW copies as a code. It's purpose is to convince console people to buy new instead of used. Warden's Keep isn't worth the $7 though, since you can get a free mod using the official tools to add a storage chest at your camp for free.
Game runs rock solid, I've had no crashes or graphical problems. 1680x1050, 4xAA, maxed everything, vsync on, with an E8400, 4GB RAM and HD4870 512MB.
On November 10 2009 05:49 Shauni wrote: it's crashing A LOT for me, does anyone have the same problems? It's not overheating or anything and my computer basically NEVER crashing in any other game.
Try underclocking your graphics card 10% on cpu and mem (I used rivatuner), that completely fixed the crashes for me. And yeah, I had the exact same problem. A solution until they patch it.
The game still runs smoothly, though I'm playing windowed 1024x768.
yeah my graphics card was actually slightly overclocked, I'll try turn it down.
And I'm also amazed how EXTREMELY well this game runs on my computer (when it's not crashing that is heh heh). It's very well optimized. I thought my 3700+ CPU (yes an ancient single core) would have problems with this game, but it runs completely smooth on 1680*1050 and everything on highest details. Well, I guess it helps that my graphics card is not as old (9800gtx).
On November 10 2009 06:44 Haemonculus wrote: I'm a bit curious though. I *want* to be a blood mage, because I think that sounds like the most potent killing-pew-pew specialization for a mage, but does that doom me to be evil? Will Allistair or whatnot hate me if I pick that one? lol.
As far as I can tell, Allistair doesn't need to know that you've become a blood mage. You learn blood magic from a demon in the fade, and Allistair isn't there to disapprove.
On November 10 2009 06:44 Haemonculus wrote: Also, Morrigan is a bitch. Is she worth keeping around? She dissaproves of basically everything I do, and I'm quite tempted to just kill her for the lulz. Will I be able to find a replacement mage later?
You get Wynne, but Wynne's spell selection is basically worthless for anything other than healing until you gain a few levels. I would keep Morrigan, but that's because I'm finding the Allistair + 3 mage party setup to be extremely strong.
On November 10 2009 09:07 jalstar wrote: You can get fireball at level 3, a very useful spell toi have (especially on hard or nightmare). Very good reason to pick a mage.
I'm regretting not getting fireball first instead, T_T; I mainly use the lightning and ice attacks, and friendly fire is very hard to avoid! T_T
I found it pretty curious that despite all the bad publicity blood magic gets in the game none of your party members react when you first use it - not even when I started leeching health from Alistair to fund my continued life and spell casting. I was expecting some cutscene like Locke's reaction to Celes using magic in FFVI.
On November 10 2009 10:35 Milton Friedman wrote: I found it pretty curious that despite all the bad publicity blood magic gets in the game none of your party members react when you first use it - not even when I started leeching health from Alistair to fund my continued life and spell casting. I was expecting some cutscene like Locke's reaction to CelesTerra using magic in FFVI.
i find it very annoying how locked chests are absolutely worthless. I forgo other skills just to max out lock pick and end up getting 1 fire arrow or some steel daggers from lvl 4 locked chests. Not even one rare item from locked chests so far and im done with 3/4 of the main quests. Everything is vendor trash.
On November 10 2009 07:28 Zzoram wrote: Warden's Keep isn't worth the $7 though, since you can get a free mod using the official tools to add a storage chest at your camp for free.
Most of the locked chests only end up being useful for the small amount of exp instead of the trash they have inside.
Also, if you have a possibility to switch your party members and you are about to talk someone and the dialogue will lead someone to have massive dissaproval score, you can manage your party before you speak and leave the ones that disagree out and take them back after talking.
Yea 3 mage plus a good tank is the most effective way to go. Its so versatile you can do whatever you want. And if you go and make yourself an arcane warrior (with a proper set up and planning) than you will have a really solid team that can probably handle nightmare.
If you talk to wynne and reveal that your a blood mage i believe she attacks you outright. Same thing happens if you show up to the magic place with morrigan in your party.
On November 10 2009 10:35 Milton Friedman wrote: I found it pretty curious that despite all the bad publicity blood magic gets in the game none of your party members react when you first use it - not even when I started leeching health from Alistair to fund my continued life and spell casting. I was expecting some cutscene like Locke's reaction to Celes using magic in FFVI.
I condemned a guy during a quest for being a blood mage despite being one myself. No one in my party called me out on the hypocrisy fortunately.
On November 10 2009 10:35 Milton Friedman wrote: I found it pretty curious that despite all the bad publicity blood magic gets in the game none of your party members react when you first use it - not even when I started leeching health from Alistair to fund my continued life and spell casting. I was expecting some cutscene like Locke's reaction to Celes using magic in FFVI.
That does seem kind of annoying, yet also expected from Bioware.
The terrible AI bothers me. Seems like Bioware are exceptionally bad at coding AI.
It's the same old "my mage gets aggro and the monster keeps chasing her around while the other party members are chasing the monster and trying to swing at it", which of course looks ridiculous. And it's also highly annoying. It was much better back in BG2, they didn't have that stupid threat system back then. Sure, it makes sense for them to go after the soft mages who deal so much damage, but GOD it's so annoying and makes for a very unfun experience.
^ I think the threat system is fine. If you blast off high damage spells continuously it's natural that the enemys will set their sights on you. It's the way it should be imho. The thing that bothers me here is that blocking enemys with your tank ( in doors or by forming a semi circle around your damage dealing mage) doesn't really work like in BG. Usually the enemys somehow slide trough a gap or whatnot... .
especially annoying in the werewolve ruins on higher difficulty setting when those damn shadow werewolves just keep jumping your mage and killing him by ground and pound while you can't do anything about it. Even healing won't help. (stunning or freezing works like 50% of the time but the ai chars are always out of stamina anyway)
On November 10 2009 16:51 Abyzou wrote: The terrible AI bothers me. Seems like Bioware are exceptionally bad at coding AI.
It's the same old "my mage gets aggro and the monster keeps chasing her around while the other party members are chasing the monster and trying to swing at it", which of course looks ridiculous. And it's also highly annoying. It was much better back in BG2, they didn't have that stupid threat system back then. Sure, it makes sense for them to go after the soft mages who deal so much damage, but GOD it's so annoying and makes for a very unfun experience.
ummm you have tactics slots.
just freeze the chaser with cone of cold ( most useful spell in the game btw) and have a warrior taunt threaten the shit out of him, or just shatter the enemy.
edit: and to the overwhelm problem ( werewolves) keep your mages BACK and just freeze if they approach
Also shield bash and any other stun move will knock any of the overwhelming enemies off your mage. This is helpful because if you guy is out for that long and takes damage its pretty much over. I had one time where the wolves overwhelmed one after the other on my tank and it just drained everything. Sucks the no knockdowns doesnt work against it.
I didn't realize that the only way to become a blood mage was from that stupid Demon Desire thing (killed it) and now I can't become one at all. What different specialization should I choose? Which does the most damage?
On November 10 2009 17:10 Substandard wrote: The thing that bothers me here is that blocking enemys with your tank ( in doors or by forming a semi circle around your damage dealing mage) doesn't really work like in BG. Usually the enemys somehow slide trough a gap or whatnot...
Yeah, warriors in Dragon Age block about as well as the Detroit Lions offensive line (that's really bad, trust me).
cool game, im about 3 hours into it, something about pc rpg's that I've never liked is the combat systems. just doesn't feel smooth and everything is a 1-hit combo.
I'm only an hour or two in and I'm a little disappointed so far. My party is like all warriors or rogues. The combat and graphics are a little lacking I think. I'm hoping that it gets better as the game goes on.
I found in a few conversations (sorry don't remember them specifically) I had party members that were not present voice disapproval. Morrigan also doesn't react if you spec her to blood mage at level 14. I was going to say Wynne doesn't either but I haven't actually done it, so... If someone does, let us know.
ChezGod, the other 3 mage specs aren't as excellent for helping your damage. They grant you armor, heals, or forms wherein you can't cast. I don't know the ins and outs of the specs though, so I don't want to speculate too much. I'm not even sure if your armor translates into shapeshifted stats (I think it does). That'd be important to confirm.
Lastly I want to remind people that unlocking a spec unlocks it for your entire account. That is, the spec will be unlocked for other main characters and for other saves and NPCs of those characters. You can sort of exploit this to unlock specs that run counter to your roleplaying goals... as long as you save at the right time.
Has anyone experimented with a Reaver using blood frenzy, aura of pain, devour, and life ward? I stupidly didn't realize what I just noted so I'm stuck with the consequences of unlocking the Reaver and I'm wondering where the spec shines. Seems like he'll hold aggro like nothing else, letting your mages/rogues go full blast, while sporting some damage himself.
@Abyzou: For aggro problems, try less damage, more crowd control. Have your tank hit all relevant foes while in threaten with a taunt or too mixed in. By the time he's done with that you should've finished unloading crowd control and can move on to damage. Save damaging impediments (stone fist, winter's grasp) for when a foe starts running at you (hopefully before he's closed). Also take advantage of mages' crazy range and position them far far away from your front line before engaging the enemy. That is unless you're ridiculously ballsy or an Arcane Warrior.
At lower levels mind blast + cone of cold can easily put half your enemies out of commission. You can do this by level 3.
Lack of blocking is really annoying I'll have to agree. It destroys a lot of positional relevance that could easily make battles even deeper. The way the system works also annoys me in big battles with many NPCs... when too many actors are moving around at once it results in a lot of needless jockeying for position.
On November 10 2009 17:11 Etherone wrote: just freeze the chaser with cone of cold ( most useful spell in the game btw) and have a warrior taunt threaten the shit out of him, or just shatter the enemy.
edit: and to the overwhelm problem ( werewolves) keep your mages BACK and just freeze if they approach
On November 10 2009 22:46 EchOne wrote: @Abyzou: For aggro problems, try less damage, more crowd control. Have your tank hit all relevant foes while in threaten with a taunt or too mixed in. By the time he's done with that you should've finished unloading crowd control and can move on to damage. Save damaging impediments (stone fist, winter's grasp) for when a foe starts running at you (hopefully before he's closed). Also take advantage of mages' crazy range and position them far far away from your front line before engaging the enemy. That is unless you're ridiculously ballsy or an Arcane Warrior.
At lower levels mind blast + cone of cold can easily put half your enemies out of commission. You can do this by level 3.
Lack of blocking is really annoying I'll have to agree. It destroys a lot of positional relevance that could easily make battles even deeper. The way the system works also annoys me in big battles with many NPCs... when too many actors are moving around at once it results in a lot of needless jockeying for position.
You're missing the point. The problem isn't that getting chased is bad for you. The problem is that it's an abusable mechanic that turns any fight with a single melee enemy into a trivial task, regardless of difficulty. While a Revenant fight in normal can involve some heavy potion quaffing, the kiting technique allows you to beat them on Nightmare without much difficulty--provided that you interrupt Pulls and Mass Pulls.
Obviously it ruins the fun to abuse said mechanic, but knowing that it's there leaves a bad taste.
On November 10 2009 10:35 Milton Friedman wrote: I found it pretty curious that despite all the bad publicity blood magic gets in the game none of your party members react when you first use it - not even when I started leeching health from Alistair to fund my continued life and spell casting. I was expecting some cutscene like Locke's reaction to CelesTerra using magic in FFVI.
Corrected.
Also.
M
A
G
I
C
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
MAGIC?!
:O I swear that's not the case...I remember Locke getting freaked out after he rescues Celes and then seeing her use magic in their first fight out of the dungeon. Anyway, let's not divert the topic to FFVI
The latter few times I killed a revenant was by kiting him around a pillar. I'm pretty sure the threat system is based on who in your party has the highest armor rating, which in my case is my mage. To me at least, skillessly consuming potions while involved in a melee fight with the revenant is about the same as the cheap AI abusing tactic.
On November 11 2009 04:28 Milton Friedman wrote: The latter few times I killed a revenant was by kiting him around a pillar. I'm pretty sure the threat system is based on who in your party has the highest armor rating, which in my case is my mage. To me at least, skillessly consuming potions while involved in a melee fight with the revenant is about the same as the cheap AI abusing tactic.
That doesn't redeem either of them. They're both flawed mechanics, IMO.
I see your point TheYango but I don't think kiting is horrible game design here because the fact that you need to account for Pulls puts the challenge at least a hair above trivial (which I admit isn't great.) The Revenant fights were basically the only ones where your party faces lone melee enemies. Also we may have missed your point, but we were responding to someone who did not exactly raise your point.
Unrelated: does anyone know exactly what happened with regards to the crazy dwarf in the latter half of the Dead Trenches? Are there any codices that explain what exactly the boss and her ilk are? Leaving it up to my imagination is decidedly disappointing.
My question is this - why complain about a something like kiting if:
a) you aren't going to abuse it because you're a real man b) so what if random kids with no patience to fight battles like real men and want to kite shit do it (that's probably why it's there in the first place)
From the perspective of BioWare - they want to create a product that is beatable by some skilless newb who just kites stuff around (taking the easy way out) and the hardcore rpg fans who do everything "correctly". It's like calling F91 a bad player because he doesn't play the normal way you're "supposed to". Each is effective in its own right. The fact that this game seems to have elements of everything represents the fact that the producers are trying to design a game that pleases the greatest audience.
On November 11 2009 05:37 EchOne wrote: I see your point TheYango but I don't think kiting is horrible game design here because the fact that you need to account for Pulls puts the challenge at least a hair above trivial (which I admit isn't great.) The Revenant fights were basically the only ones where your party faces lone melee enemies. Also we may have missed your point, but we were responding to someone who did not exactly raise your point.
I'm not saying kiting in and of itself is horrible game design, but a few more elements to expand on general combat movement would have been interesting (right now there's a lot to do with combat positioning, but little to do with movement). As of now, the fact that a 4-foot-tall dwarf in massive plate armor can outrun a werewolf twice his height and theoretically capable of running at superhuman speeds is both absurd and hilarious. I would have been interested to see things like armor/race affecting movement speed, more talents/spells related to it and attacking/shooting/casting while moving, and magical equipment that boosts it.
Maybe it's not practical in the final build of the game, but meh, it seems like it could have been an interesting direction to take the rule system.
Kiting is pretty lame lol. That boss you encounter when you assault the tower in the beginning was extremely easy. Being on nightmare and the first boss you really encounter, it was an eye opener to see that enemies can get a 1 hit KO skill. If no one has seen it, the boss picks up your character and starts punching you into his fist. On nightmare that pretty much kills your character. So after I lost that character I just grabbed the character he was targeting and did circles with it. Whenever he switched targets I would run that character around lol. So it's very obvious that with any melee enemy stuff like this sort of breaks the game. You can pretty much beat every melee boss without taking any damage. I know though, I don't kite so it's not really an issue but it's still something poorly thought through.
I agree with Yango. They should have implemented some kind of weight system with armor. However this would just make casual traveling painful, so they could've done it for just when you enter combat. I would have liked to see more depth to the game. The game also needs secret paths. The game... needs a lot... it's good yeah but it's just not there yet. That's why we have modders tho . In time the game might end up getting a lot of mods.
I don't know if this is correct but I went and got Juggernaut armor for my Arcane/Blood Mage, an this awesome axe. My mage does more base damage than my warrior and rogue in melee. Not to mention that all the damage I take is reduced to 1. Only bosses and little mini-bosses hit for like 10+. I just doubt... my mage is supposed to be doing that kind of damage haha. I will stand and say this, Arcane/Blood Mage is OP lol. I don't care what anyone says, it's the most solid and strongest setup in the game.
Not really. There's only too much they can do without making it too close to a full-blown action game or make people pause way more than they already do.
On November 11 2009 05:55 Xeris wrote: From the perspective of BioWare - they want to create a product that is beatable by some skilless newb who just kites stuff around (taking the easy way out) and the hardcore rpg fans who do everything "correctly". It's like calling F91 a bad player because he doesn't play the normal way you're "supposed to". Each is effective in its own right. The fact that this game seems to have elements of everything represents the fact that the producers are trying to design a game that pleases the greatest audience.
If you look around the web, the discussion on difficulty is interesting, especially watching other forums with less hardcore gamers.
The complaints in other forums and by reviewers both amuses and saddens me. Too many reviewers are saying normal is too difficult. There are too many complaints on message boards around the web that normal is too difficult. Somehow, however, pride prevents these people from dropping their difficulty setting to easy. It's not like the game doesn't have something for them to be able to finish the game. And it's not like anybody but them would know they were playing a single player game on easy difficulty.
But no, since Mr. Uberleet console kiddie can beat dumbed down console RPGs, that means normal isn't balanced if he's having trouble with them. Because beating console RPGs makes Mr. Uberleet such a good gamer, right? Uh, no. Those idiots should just drop to easy and stop complaining.
On November 11 2009 07:50 noClue wrote: Kiting is pretty lame lol. That boss you encounter when you assault the tower in the beginning was extremely easy. Being on nightmare and the first boss you really encounter, it was an eye opener to see that enemies can get a 1 hit KO skill. If no one has seen it, the boss picks up your character and starts punching you into his fist. On nightmare that pretty much kills your character. So after I lost that character I just grabbed the character he was targeting and did circles with it. Whenever he switched targets I would run that character around lol. So it's very obvious that with any melee enemy stuff like this sort of breaks the game. You can pretty much beat every melee boss without taking any damage. I know though, I don't kite so it's not really an issue but it's still something poorly thought through.
I agree with Yango. They should have implemented some kind of weight system with armor. However this would just make casual traveling painful, so they could've done it for just when you enter combat. I would have liked to see more depth to the game. The game also needs secret paths. The game... needs a lot... it's good yeah but it's just not there yet. That's why we have modders tho . In time the game might end up getting a lot of mods.
I don't know if this is correct but I went and got Juggernaut armor for my Arcane/Blood Mage, an this awesome axe. My mage does more base damage than my warrior and rogue in melee. Not to mention that all the damage I take is reduced to 1. Only bosses and little mini-bosses hit for like 10+. I just doubt... my mage is supposed to be doing that kind of damage haha. I will stand and say this, Arcane/Blood Mage is OP lol. I don't care what anyone says, it's the most solid and strongest setup in the game.
I think the problem with that is, if not for kiting, how exactly are you going to kill something which just 1-shots your characters. As lame as kiting is, if a melee mob chases your caster and you couldn't peel it off with your tank, you're either running or dying.
Bioware claims it's a spiritual successor to BGII but I don't agree. There aren't nearly as many spells or opportunities for customization, the amount of dialogue is extremely tedious and most of the time felt completely unnecessary, and the combat feels less strategic and more like just controlling a couple characters in an MMORPG. The graphics also aren't as pretty as I've come to expect with games.
Not being able to force locks is also a pain. The only reason I could think of for keeping rogues in my party was compulsively feeling like I needed to open them, though this is not the case as there is rarely anything worthwhile in them; usually potions or crafting items that make potions.
The dungeon design was pretty cool but over all I'm having a hard time getting into it. Anyone else?
On November 11 2009 07:54 andrewlt wrote: Not really. There's only too much they can do without making it too close to a full-blown action game or make people pause way more than they already do.
Well, from the point of view of someone who wishes there were autopause options like in IE games, I can't say that's a bad thing.
Silly selfish ideas aside, I can concede that controlling multiple characters mid-movement would probably be more unwieldy than is practical, particularly for consoles, which don't have mouse-and-keyboard setups to help micro all your guys.
On November 11 2009 07:54 andrewlt wrote: But no, since Mr. Uberleet console kiddie can beat dumbed down console RPGs, that means normal isn't balanced if he's having trouble with them. Because beating console RPGs makes Mr. Uberleet such a good gamer, right? Uh, no. Those idiots should just drop to easy and stop complaining.
Actually, if you screen out the blatant trolling and idiocy, there are some legitimate complaints. The difficulty feels really inconsistent at times (you can sometimes get wide difficulty fluctuations between areas), and part of this seems to be because Bioware had an implicit order in which the areas should be done, and that's not imparted to people in any way.
Question: I've heard rumors that combat is easier in the console version of the game. Can anyone confirm or deny?
As a side note, the Missing Manual has been an interesting resource for me. Puts numbers and stats in places where I like seeing numbers and stats (e.g. how the Attack stat actually translates into hit chance).
pretty much. Rogue does very nice DPS though. Just let it target the same monster as the tank with momentum active and ocationally position him for backstabs.
Has anyone tested out haste + momentum? It doesnt seem to stack, but im not 100% sure. I got haste for nohitng ... Oh and does getting more spells in the same school raise your effectiveness of using that school's magic? I see the bar go up by the name of the school but I dont know what that signifies
On November 11 2009 08:07 Sinensis wrote: Bioware claims it's a spiritual successor to BGII but I don't agree. There aren't nearly as many spells or opportunities for customization
While I agree with your other points, I feel like this one needs to be addressed, because I don't agree. People seem to forget how little customization 2nd Edition D&D offered. After 1st level and before epic abilities come into play, the ONLY customization of character abilities you get on level up are weapon proficiencies and thief skills. Stat points + talent per level is more customization than 2nd Edition D&D (though less than 3rd, but 3rd also has it's own issues in other regards). As far as spell diversity goes, you have to keep in mind that there are way more similar-but-identical spells in 2nd Edition D&D (e.g. the entire Spell Turning line of spells is effectively the same, but increasing in power at each new one). There are less spells in Dragon Age, but the ones that exist are more relevantly different (and power scaling is handled by the scaling of your magic stat).
On November 11 2009 08:17 gameguard wrote: Has anyone tested out haste + momentum? It doesnt seem to stack, but im not 100% sure. I got haste for nohitng ... Oh and does getting more spells in the same school raise your effectiveness of using that school's magic? I see the bar go up by the name of the school but I dont know what that signifies
It's an option in the toolset, but not enabled in the final game (e.g. people will have the choice of enabling it via mods and stuff.
upon further testing, haste actually seems to override momentum. Momentum's bonus is greater so you are actually losing speed and getting the to hit penalty. Thats stupid.
edit:
I just found out that you can un-enchant weapons wtf. All this time i have been lugging around good runes to save for good weapons or not enchanting good weapons to see if i can find better runes.
on a side note that enchanter kid is my favorite character in the game.
On November 11 2009 07:54 andrewlt wrote: But no, since Mr. Uberleet console kiddie can beat dumbed down console RPGs, that means normal isn't balanced if he's having trouble with them. Because beating console RPGs makes Mr. Uberleet such a good gamer, right? Uh, no. Those idiots should just drop to easy and stop complaining.
Actually, if you screen out the blatant trolling and idiocy, there are some legitimate complaints. The difficulty feels really inconsistent at times (you can sometimes get wide difficulty fluctuations between areas), and part of this seems to be because Bioware had an implicit order in which the areas should be done, and that's not imparted to people in any way.
Question: I've heard rumors that combat is easier in the console version of the game. Can anyone confirm or deny?
As a side note, the Missing Manual has been an interesting resource for me. Puts numbers and stats in places where I like seeing numbers and stats (e.g. how the Attack stat actually translates into hit chance).
Just read that Bioware article on levels. No wonder areas are so different. Though it's obvious that they don't increase difficulty by adding more abilities for the enemy or making them stronger. If you notice the "harder" areas just simply have more enemies. Which is fine I guess but once again it shows Bioware's lack of depth.
Do the other difficulties have those finisher attacks from enemies? Hard -> Easy. The first time I walked into the elven ruins werewolves jumped on all 4 of my characters and I lost lol. As far as I'm concerned the game is only difficult because of these skills. You have to be on edge. If you see a guy performing one of these little KO moves you need to hurry and bash it off or something. There are just times when the enemies chain them on the entire party...
Combat looks a lot easier in console... because it lacks in combat lol. I think they only get to hotkey 6 spells? IMO the console version was pretty dumbed down compared to PC. Just can't surpass the awesomeness of Keyboard/Mouse for games like this.
If anyones wondering about party setups. I tried a few and well...I can't say there are any superior parties. As long as you have a way to cover allies from all enemy types you're good to go. Every party setup has a way to handle every situation for the most part.
On November 11 2009 13:00 Abyzou wrote: Normal feels like Hard on other games, the way I have to play with precision and care to win in alot of encounters.
That's it really. Normal should feel "just right". But it's too hard right now.
Are you speaking about before or after the 1.01 patch that downscales the Normal and Easy difficulty?
On November 11 2009 08:07 Sinensis wrote: I'm a little disappointed with this game.
Bioware claims it's a spiritual successor to BGII but I don't agree. There aren't nearly as many spells or opportunities for customization, the amount of dialogue is extremely tedious and most of the time felt completely unnecessary, and the combat feels less strategic and more like just controlling a couple characters in an MMORPG. The graphics also aren't as pretty as I've come to expect with games.
Not being able to force locks is also a pain. The only reason I could think of for keeping rogues in my party was compulsively feeling like I needed to open them, though this is not the case as there is rarely anything worthwhile in them; usually potions or crafting items that make potions.
The dungeon design was pretty cool but over all I'm having a hard time getting into it. Anyone else?
Yeah I know how you feel. I can't really get into it either. It's just... I dunno. It just doesn't pull me in, maybe I'm jaded.
On November 11 2009 13:00 Abyzou wrote: Normal feels like Hard on other games, the way I have to play with precision and care to win in alot of encounters.
That's it really. Normal should feel "just right". But it's too hard right now.
Are you speaking about before or after the 1.01 patch that downscales the Normal and Easy difficulty?
all mages have aoe spells as well as heal spells, while alistair is the tank. so let the mages stay back, pull with alistair and bomb the hell out of the enemys + heal alistair. kinda fun setup, but of course you are doomed when alistair dies.
myself (spirit healer) alistair (templar) leliana (bard) shauni (wardog) - dunno why i gave him that name ^^
lelianas dmg is quite dissapointing, even though i found her a kickass bow. however, her lockpicking skills give a lot of extra experience and items. shauni totally kicks ass. highest single target dmg in the party. pretty easy to go party. if your mainchar isnt a mage or even better spirit healer, just choose wynne and replace some other char. however i recommend you to always play the healer yourself, as a npc heals his mana away too quickly.
If you have played Baldurs Gate 2 the difficulty of DA is something to really laugh at, even on nightmare.
BG2 was like: What? You don't have protection spell XX up? Well... You die or retry until you are lucky with saverolls because you don't have such a spell yet (don't do the "all seeing eye" quest as your first big quest, I warn you...). What? You cast instant death on my main char and I have to reload?... What? These Vampires/Tentacle-Dudes/Djinns/demi-lichs/dragon kills my party members permanently? So I win the fight and still have to reload? What? There was a trap that just eradicated me?
Uh... People would whine... People would whine really hard (and I would agree with them on some points - the whole permanent death thing was stupid).
Problem Dragon Age has, is that it's AI is pretty retarded. Most enemys follow you everywhere... Just find a comfortable place and it's like over for them, they are now in your deathtrap of overlaying Earthquake/Blizzard/Storm-whatever-AE-you have.
On November 12 2009 01:52 Velr wrote: If you have played Baldurs Gate 2 the difficulty of DA is something to really laugh at, even on nightmare.
Don't quite agree with that. They're difficult in different ways. Baldur's Gate 2 was difficult as hell in certain encounters, but unless you heavily modded the game, your average on-the-road encounter with orcs or mercenaries was an absolute joke. DA's "hard" encounters are no Kangaxx or Beholder Lair, but average darkspawn encounters have a much higher chance of killing you.
On November 12 2009 01:52 Velr wrote: Uh... People would whine... People would whine really hard (and I would agree with them on some points - the whole permanent death thing was stupid).
To be fair, it was a holdover from BG1, where it enhanced the D&D feel (since there were less permanent death effects). It works out when you have almost 30 recruitable NPCs, and a couple were fairly expendable. It's just that subsequent games had way less, so having your party members die was a big deal.
On November 11 2009 07:54 andrewlt wrote: But no, since Mr. Uberleet console kiddie can beat dumbed down console RPGs, that means normal isn't balanced if he's having trouble with them. Because beating console RPGs makes Mr. Uberleet such a good gamer, right? Uh, no. Those idiots should just drop to easy and stop complaining.
Actually, if you screen out the blatant trolling and idiocy, there are some legitimate complaints. The difficulty feels really inconsistent at times (you can sometimes get wide difficulty fluctuations between areas), and part of this seems to be because Bioware had an implicit order in which the areas should be done, and that's not imparted to people in any way.
Question: I've heard rumors that combat is easier in the console version of the game. Can anyone confirm or deny?
As a side note, the Missing Manual has been an interesting resource for me. Puts numbers and stats in places where I like seeing numbers and stats (e.g. how the Attack stat actually translates into hit chance).
Yes, I love the Missing Manual as well.
I do agree that Bioware didn't give enough information to figure out where to go next after you get access to the wide open world. At least they should've given blatant hints on which ones people should go first to.
Looking at various reviews, though, the console is definitely easier combat-wise. I'm playing the PC version on normal and I refuse to install the patch for now. I reload quite a bit but the difficulty is just right for me.
Even with 2 mages and a planned second play through, I still think mages get too few spells per level, especially since Wynne and Morrigan have almost half of their spells from an entire game already predetermined when you get them.
On November 12 2009 01:52 Velr wrote: If you have played Baldurs Gate 2 the difficulty of DA is something to really laugh at, even on nightmare.
BG2 was like: What? You don't have protection spell XX up? Well... You die or retry until you are lucky with saverolls because you don't have such a spell yet (don't do the "all seeing eye" quest as your first big quest, I warn you...). What? You cast instant death on my main char and I have to reload?... What? These Vampires/Tentacle-Dudes/Djinns/demi-lichs/dragon kills my party members permanently? So I win the fight and still have to reload? What? There was a trap that just eradicated me?
Uh... People would whine... People would whine really hard (and I would agree with them on some points - the whole permanent death thing was stupid).
Problem Dragon Age has, is that it's AI is pretty retarded. Most enemys follow you everywhere... Just find a comfortable place and it's like over for them, they are now in your deathtrap of overlaying Earthquake/Blizzard/Storm-whatever-AE-you have.
Vanilla BG1/2 aren't really hard. If you want a challenge you need ScS mod and if you want to cry you need tactics mod. Now that's ridiculously hard.
Bg2 on insane difficulty where they do 100% more damage is a bit of a pain in the ass and i'm no slouch when it comes to these games (Was in MDC back on Mplayer, if anyone remembers heh)
I've yet to try tactics mod, because it basically looks like i'll just have to full buff before every little fight and that's not hard, that's just annoying and time consuming.
On November 12 2009 01:52 Velr wrote: If you have played Baldurs Gate 2 the difficulty of DA is something to really laugh at, even on nightmare.
BG2 was like: What? You don't have protection spell XX up? Well... You die or retry until you are lucky with saverolls because you don't have such a spell yet (don't do the "all seeing eye" quest as your first big quest, I warn you...). What? You cast instant death on my main char and I have to reload?... What? These Vampires/Tentacle-Dudes/Djinns/demi-lichs/dragon kills my party members permanently? So I win the fight and still have to reload? What? There was a trap that just eradicated me?
Uh... People would whine... People would whine really hard (and I would agree with them on some points - the whole permanent death thing was stupid).
Problem Dragon Age has, is that it's AI is pretty retarded. Most enemys follow you everywhere... Just find a comfortable place and it's like over for them, they are now in your deathtrap of overlaying Earthquake/Blizzard/Storm-whatever-AE-you have.
Vanilla BG1/2 aren't really hard. If you want a challenge you need ScS mod and if you want to cry you need tactics mod. Now that's ridiculously hard.
Sure, but their hard encounters, especially on ToB, are generally harder than Dragon Age's hard encounters. However, the BG games have tons of throwaway encounters. Almost every encounter against unnamed mobs are easy. Dragon Age's generic encounters are more likely to kill you.
However, a lot of BG's difficult encounters lies in having to use almost every conceivable buff so they couldn't have too many of those encounters in the game. It seems like Dragon Age's encounters are a bit longer as well. DnD rules scales offense way more than defense. I'm only level 7-8 on Dragon Age so far, but I hope defense scales as well as offense making fights roughly the same length they do now.
On November 12 2009 06:24 Nebula wrote: I've yet to try tactics mod, because it basically looks like i'll just have to full buff before every little fight and that's not hard, that's just annoying and time consuming.
I guess that won't be enough to beat the first level.
On November 12 2009 01:52 Velr wrote: If you have played Baldurs Gate 2 the difficulty of DA is something to really laugh at, even on nightmare.
Don't quite agree with that. They're difficult in different ways. Baldur's Gate 2 was difficult as hell in certain encounters, but unless you heavily modded the game, your average on-the-road encounter with orcs or mercenaries was an absolute joke. DA's "hard" encounters are no Kangaxx or Beholder Lair, but average darkspawn encounters have a much higher chance of killing you.
On November 12 2009 01:52 Velr wrote: Uh... People would whine... People would whine really hard (and I would agree with them on some points - the whole permanent death thing was stupid).
To be fair, it was a holdover from BG1, where it enhanced the D&D feel (since there were less permanent death effects). It works out when you have almost 30 recruitable NPCs, and a couple were fairly expendable. It's just that subsequent games had way less, so having your party members die was a big deal.
I think it's way better the way BG2 was. I don't know about you guys, but RPG to me used to mean role-playing game. What part of a role-play has characters die and then just get up again? That's not realistic at all. BG2 was way more fluffy. Orcs/goblins are supposed to be cannon fodder. They're not supposed to be hard. Beholders are like wtf stuff of nightmares level monsters and so they could kill you with a deathray from their eyes. The fun of roleplaying used to be getting into it and feeling like the fantasy world was real. Not asking yourself "hmm, are the fights challenging and meaningful to me on a consistent basis?" If you want that, then go play streetfighter. That's what a fighting game is. Your characters shouldn't be "respawning" or anything lame like that in an RPG, unless you have a cleric or paladin that's strong enough to call upon their god to bring the dead back to life. And that was usually the point of always wasting a party slot with a crappy cleric. They were a necessity.
Nowadays, with all these youngins raised on Diablo and WoW, the RPG genre has turned into some odd kind of level up + get phat loot experience rather than any actual RPG. Sers, getting tired of this idea that RPG means leveling up + keeping your gear. That was a side product of roleplaying as an actual character in a consistent world, not the focus like it is now.
Boblion, have you had a chance to play the game yet? Any impressions? You jumped in for the BG2 discussion, but I'm interested in what you have to say about the game.
On November 12 2009 06:24 Nebula wrote: I've yet to try tactics mod, because it basically looks like i'll just have to full buff before every little fight and that's not hard, that's just annoying and time consuming.
I guess that won't be enough to beat the first level.
I'll install tactics tonight or tomoz and i'll give it a whirl, but honestly i'm not really expecting it to be all that hard, just time consuming. Maybe i'll set up a stream !
On November 12 2009 07:12 TheYango wrote: Boblion, have you had a chance to play the game yet? Any impressions? You jumped in for the BG2 discussion, but I'm interested in what you have to say about the game.
Nah but i'm following some topics about this game on different forums ( thanks for your great insight btw ) and it seems to be decent. I might get the game when it will be a bit cheaper and when i will have some time to play a lot because when i play an Rpg i need to do long sessions ( Maybe in January after my finals ). Also it seems that the game is out of stock in France and i don't want to dl it ( Never been a big fan of steam or torrents ).
lol tactics mod was a major pain in the ass. Using that on the first run through is probably not a smart idea. I quit after like 3/4 of the way cus you have to like prepare for EVERY single encounter. Random attacks at night in towns just rape u if ur not prepared lol.
I think I quit after I went to that added area in tactics mod. I cant recall exactly what the story was for taht but that place was just ridiculous lol. But I mean without tactics mod, I cant see how the gaem could be hard. You still have all those insane spells to abuse for the tough fights, while the enemy does not take full advantage of it.
Dragon age is really only hard at the beginning. At least on normal. My rogue main was just pathetic in the beginning and Alister couldnt tank for shit. He would get shot by like 5 archers in the back then debuffed with shatter shot cripple shot sunder armor and drop in like 2 seconds. Morrigan had no crowd control for me exept cone of cold.
Once you get better crowd control and tanking, the enemies really cant keep up.
On November 12 2009 01:52 Velr wrote: If you have played Baldurs Gate 2 the difficulty of DA is something to really laugh at, even on nightmare.
Don't quite agree with that. They're difficult in different ways. Baldur's Gate 2 was difficult as hell in certain encounters, but unless you heavily modded the game, your average on-the-road encounter with orcs or mercenaries was an absolute joke. DA's "hard" encounters are no Kangaxx or Beholder Lair, but average darkspawn encounters have a much higher chance of killing you.
On November 12 2009 01:52 Velr wrote: Uh... People would whine... People would whine really hard (and I would agree with them on some points - the whole permanent death thing was stupid).
To be fair, it was a holdover from BG1, where it enhanced the D&D feel (since there were less permanent death effects). It works out when you have almost 30 recruitable NPCs, and a couple were fairly expendable. It's just that subsequent games had way less, so having your party members die was a big deal.
I think it's way better the way BG2 was. I don't know about you guys, but RPG to me used to mean role-playing game. What part of a role-play has characters die and then just get up again? That's not realistic at all. BG2 was way more fluffy. Orcs/goblins are supposed to be cannon fodder. They're not supposed to be hard. Beholders are like wtf stuff of nightmares level monsters and so they could kill you with a deathray from their eyes. The fun of roleplaying used to be getting into it and feeling like the fantasy world was real. Not asking yourself "hmm, are the fights challenging and meaningful to me on a consistent basis?" If you want that, then go play streetfighter. That's what a fighting game is. Your characters shouldn't be "respawning" or anything lame like that in an RPG, unless you have a cleric or paladin that's strong enough to call upon their god to bring the dead back to life. And that was usually the point of always wasting a party slot with a crappy cleric. They were a necessity.
Nowadays, with all these youngins raised on Diablo and WoW, the RPG genre has turned into some odd kind of level up + get phat loot experience rather than any actual RPG. Sers, getting tired of this idea that RPG means leveling up + keeping your gear. That was a side product of roleplaying as an actual character in a consistent world, not the focus like it is now.
On some level you are right about the negatives of dead people simply getting up. However, I think that one of my people dying forcing a reload breaks my immersion way, way more than the idea that my guy was just wounded and now that the battle is over we can take the time to heal him. There are some games that do this better than others - for example, in NWN 2, after a battle all of your dead characters glow and sparkle and then get up. WTF is that? I have not played Dragon Age yet, but I'm positive it does this mechanic more tastefully.
I think the more important aspects of an RPG are the immersion in the world (this is why Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines is one of my favorite games ever) achieved, the story, and your character's effect on it. If Bioware did these things well, I won't really have a problem with any of their mechanics. Now if only I was confident my computer could run this game...
On November 12 2009 07:43 TarsTarkas wrote: Now if only I was confident my computer could run this game...
I was really really worried about this myself, but my computer has surprised me. I'm able to run the game quite fluently on lowest graphics, and it still looks just as pretty as it does on my boyfriend's 360.
Anyway, I'm really enjoying this game. I've got my gripes with it of course, but overall it's a lot of fun. Maybe I'm just a sucker for fantasy world fluff, but the game has a great story/atmosphere. Yes the story is a bit generic, but this is an RPG. WILLFUL suspension of disbelief people!
The story is a bit predictable in some aspects, and surprising at others. When I first met that Loghaine fellow I instantly thought "Ok this guy is a bad guy in disguise." As soon as they explained their plan for the battle at Ostragar or whatnot, I thought "Oh he is soooooo going to pull the shit from Braveheart and retreat at the signal..."
And then other times the characters are a little more inventive than I thought. Allistair's back story is pretty entertaining, and he's actually got a lot of personality and such. I'm really going to have to go back and play through this game a 2nd time once I've beaten it, and play a completely different character. Right now I'm playing the game as I would myself, trying to keep everyone happy and liking me, while still taking what I want when people aren't looking. I wonder how much the game will change if I make a character who just goes around being as much of a dick as possible and pissing EVERYONE off, lol.
That all aside, the level scaling bugs me a lot. Morrigan just asked me to kill Flemeth for her, and I'm only level 10 or so. I almost had it on my first try, and obviously just need to go back to camp and switch out fora different party. When she turned into a dragon I was very much expecting to get horribly rolled and have to come back later when I actually stood a chance against her. Instead it seems that even getting ambushed by a pack of wolves later in the game is still exactly as deadly as it was early on. Quite annoying.
So after I got all the races to help me and went to go see the earl of redcliffe, he called the landsmeet. I just expected there to be a series of missions/quests between that and the end of the game making the whole story a little of a let down. There were a couple of missions in denerim, the landsmeet, and the last battle, but I expected more. Maybe my expectations were too high, but those are my thoughts.
I don't know, but I expect the overall story may have been cut short with the focus on additional origin stories. It seems to me that there was much more story in mass effect, or most other bioware games.
Does the choices i make when talking to people have much difference? Also is there different plot for different races and stuff?
When i betrayed my friend at the start (as a magi) i mean, could i have not told the big head magi guy about it or what? I mean, can i just be super mean to all the characters and not have a worry?
On November 12 2009 08:46 BrTarolg wrote: Does the choices i make when talking to people have much difference? Also is there different plot for different races and stuff?
When i betrayed my friend at the start (as a magi) i mean, could i have not told the big head magi guy about it or what? I mean, can i just be super mean to all the characters and not have a worry?
You will most definitely have consequences for your actions. Some are worse than others. And yes it matters what you say to people. Im most scenarios you will not get a reward unless you blatantly ask for one.
On November 12 2009 08:46 BrTarolg wrote: Does the choices i make when talking to people have much difference? Also is there different plot for different races and stuff?
When i betrayed my friend at the start (as a magi) i mean, could i have not told the big head magi guy about it or what? I mean, can i just be super mean to all the characters and not have a worry?
It doesn't appear to make a difference for the mage's origin. I'm told that that it matters in some of the other origins.
But lets face it. It's Bioware. Fake choices are par for the course. Real C&C has always been fairly thin. You should have known that before you bought the game.
I have to agree with ejac that the finale was a bit of a let-down. The plot was predictable and there were no really epic ultimate or penultimate areas or revelations. Let's face it, the Deep Roads represented the most epic portion of the game. I'm reminded of Drakensang, where the penultimate underground areas similarly trumped anything the finale had to offer. The final sequence detailing the fate of Ferelden (you can infer how your choices factored in) was kind of cute though.
And Haemonculus, if you're a complete dick, you might end up killing or exiling the majority of your party members. Fun times.
extremly annoying how diplomatic or persuation/intimidation choices lead to no experience. Its like an unstated RPG rule that you would get at least partial experience for avoiding fights, but no... you dont get anything at all. This is making me just kill everything for exp.
Choices matter often.. I killed 2 NPC's i could also have in my group. I helped a dragon cult instead of the normal religion and got a new subclass. I sacrificed a Woman instead of searching another way and took a gift from a demon instead of killing it and got a new subclass for it.... And many others which might have consequences or might not. I pretty soon restarted the game on Nightmare because the normal fights were just no challenge... That, sadly, didn't change a bit.
Btw: Normal fights, as in BG2 are a cakewalk, IF you have 1 Mage with decent set skills and gave your Tank/Alistair some dexterity/con and use his passive modes right.... I just send him upfront into enemy hordes (party on hold), then close up with my party and lay some waste with my HC (Cone of Cold, Firecone, Stonefist, Earthquake...) and use CC/Single Target dmg with Morrigan and Leliana if needed (Leliana is fail, could also just not use that Partyslot... Will drop her for Sten).
The only hard fights are the ones that you get in by surprise (and the enemies come from different directions) or are actually bigger than they should be because you were somehow attacking 2 groups at once (and these groups come from different angles).
I like the *get up* thing after combat... Seriously in BG2 you just revived the guys that died after the fight, it took time and added nothing. I never reloaded just because someone died. Maybe in the very beginning it should be handled different, dying was only meaningful in BG2 if it was permanent or if you had no cleric on an appropriate level and had to move to a temple... After that it was just *work*.
Btw: I I finished BG2/Tob with Ascension - Draconis was tough.... Tactics and that stuff, while beatable, are just ridiculous... Like some of the fights you get from some NPC's you install... It becomes more of a memory contest than anything else.
Btw2: The allseing eye/beholder Quest in BG2 wasn't hard because of the real beholders... The small Gaunths were the bastards that made it so damn hard whiteout buffs against "holding" (or something like that, it has been a while). I went in there for my first Quest with 3 Chars (HC iirc = Fighter -> Cleric, Tashia and Fade) and you get groups of 5 Gaunths which normal attacks "hold" you... VERY FUNNY... But all hail to the Skull Trap.
I don't like them comparing this game to BG2 or calling it the spiritual successor or something, because BG2 was incredible and this game is only slightly better than all the other generic CRPGs that come out these days
But when you take it for what it is it's not terrible. Sure it's a hilarious hodge podge of ideas stolen directly from popular fantasy, it follows the same progression of every bioware RPG since 2002 (something happens -> go to 4 places -> conclusion) graphically it's not particularly good looking. The gameplay and AI are both decidedly average. But the CRPG genre is so bad now the only games it competes with are those half finished german CRPGS that keep getting released and Bethesda games which are universally bad. It's better than those.
I can see why it was dangerously close to being cancelled, and as an attempt to create their own fantasy world and lore, I think it's a failure, since all they've done is poach ideas from books etc without even trying to change them in the slightest.
AS far as characters dying, most people would just quick save constantly anyway and reload if something happens, the penalty is so small for death you typically don't bother doing that if someone goes down in this. The last time I actually let a character permanently die was my first playthrough of BG1
I really don't get all the complaints about the world.
The Fade/Daemonic possesion screams Warhammer. The darkspawn seem very tolkien Ork. The setting is pretty standart fantasy but rather low on magic and a little more dark then your avg. fantasy setting. And I'm sure there are myriads of other sings inspired by something I don't know.
But it mixes well and the world in itself is very fleshed out and intresting.
At the same time it's completly ok to just slap your D&DX icon on a product and just copy & paste the entire history... That does not make much sense to me.
It is the spirital succesor to Baldurs Gate 2 because it's totally unlike Gothic, Morrowind, Oblivion (which are crap, all of them . ) and a whole lot better than NWN 1+2. What else would you compare it to? Maybe it's not as good as BG2, but it for sure is better than everything since BG2.
On November 12 2009 22:04 Velr wrote: I really don't get all the complaints about the world.
I'm actually more disappointed that they ripped plot elements from their previous games than ripping lore elements from throughout the genre. Lore is always somewhat generic, that's not a problem. The problem is when you're recycling plot and characters, and Dragon Age does just that.
On November 12 2009 22:04 Velr wrote: At the same time it's completly ok to just slap your D&DX icon on a product and just copy & paste the entire history... That does not make much sense to me.
Yes, because the lore is not the problem. The plot and characters are. Setting your game in the Forgotten Realms says nothing about how original or generic your characters and plot are.
On November 12 2009 22:04 Velr wrote: It is the spirital succesor to Baldurs Gate 2 because it's totally unlike Gothic, Morrowind, Oblivion (which are crap, all of them . ) and a whole lot better than NWN 1+2. What else would you compare it to? Maybe it's not as good as BG2, but it for sure is better than everything since BG2.
Uh, disagree. Gothic is one of the few successful implementations of actual non-linear design in RPGs. NWN2's original campaign is mediocre, but Mask of the Betrayer is arguably the best-written RPG since Planescape: Torment.
The thing is, they didn't need to *hype* it as the spiritual successor if it wasn't going to live up to the hype. Just call it a new IP and leave it at that ("Bioware's new RPG" carries enough weight as is). All the "old-school" hype about Dragon Age amounted to nothing. As the comparisons to older RPGs have shown, there is nothing "old-school" about Dragon Age's design.
Gothic's combat system was SOOO bad, i did not have any real problems with it, i justplain hated it. It feels like playing Mikado while the sticks are on fire. Destroyed the game totally for me. If you for an action based fighting system, then make sure it is done properly (Severance: Blade of Darkness shows how it has to be done to be truly awesome). Your right on the linearity stuff tho, that was pretty sweet.
I heard about NWN2's addon, but i never played it because i never saw it on the shelf, to bad. Btw: NWN1's first addon also was much better than the original iirc... Why don't they do it properly from the get go?...
Thing is, at first NWN1 was marketed as the spiritual follower of BG2, it wasn't... Not in the least. NWN2 was closer but still far, far away.... And NWN2's engine was HORRIBLE, Dragon Age 2 runs better on my computer than NWN2, which has probelms if i scroll fast in the city (zoomed out).. I run DA2 on max. I enjoyed NWN2, it was not staggering but finally there was something that at least a little bit felt like BG2 - Dragon Age is way closer to that.
What Dragon Age lacks a bit, from what ive seen, is the *exploring* of BG2... BG2 had damn many buildings you could just enter... Some had nothing in them... Some had enemys... Some had damn hard enemies... Some had decent loot whiteout a fight at all. Thats the only thing i feel is really lacking, if a house is not needed for a quest, you can't get in.
Character recycling? Who exactly? I haven't truly recognised any till now (played BG2, Tob, PS:T, Kotor 1+2, NWN2..).
Mainplot: Didn't make it far, restarded after finishing the first Major quest and wiating for the weekend for some serious play .
On November 13 2009 00:07 Velr wrote: Thing is, at first NWN1 was marketed as the spiritual follower of BG2, it wasn't... Not in the least. NWN2 was closer but still far, far away.... And NWN2's engine was HORRIBLE, Dragon Age 2 runs better on my computer than NWN2, which has probelms if i scroll fast in the city (zoomed out).. I run DA2 on max. I enjoyed NWN2, it was not staggering but finally there was something that at least a little bit felt like BG2 - Dragon Age is way closer to that.
NWN2 was done by Obsidian, and it's pretty clear that they have a very different design philosophy in their games from Bioware (compare KotOR 1 and 2). NWN2 wasn't meant to succeed BG2, and it does well for what it is.
The reason the engine was crap was because they tried to shove a bunch of modern effects into the NWN1 engine, which it clearly wasn't designed for.
On November 13 2009 00:07 Velr wrote: Character recycling? Who exactly? I haven't truly recognised any till now (played BG2, Tob, PS:T, Kotor 1+2, NWN2..).
I'll admit that this isn't as bad in Dragon Age as in Bioware's other titles. Still, there are some pretty obvious holdovers. Alistair is still your white-knighting first companion (in the vein of Carth and Kaiden--Anomen does the white-knighting, but isn't one of your first companions), it just feels more natural because he's actually a white knight, and doesn't sound like some silly high-schooler when he's romancing a female PC. Shale is HK-47. There shouldn't need to be much explaining to do once you get him. Morrigan feels a lot like Viconia, particularly once you start to work your way into the relationship stuff: + Show Spoiler +
She even does the same "we shouldn't do this/I'm not worth your time" talk that Viconia does toward the end of her romance dialogues.
A lot of what Loghain does as the plot advances is also reminiscent of Sarevok. There's more, but those 4 are what came to me off the top of my head.
On November 13 2009 00:07 Velr wrote: Mainplot: Didn't make it far, restarded after finishing the first Major quest and wiating for the weekend for some serious play .
It's not just the main quest. The real story-taking is apparent when the main quest from one of their other games is a side-quest here.
If you've done Ostagar, then it should be pretty apparent that it's basically the Endar Spire all over again, with elements of the initial Sarevok encounter in BG1. And if you've reached the world map, you should know full well why I keep calling the main quest "collecting pieces of the Star Map".
I don't understand why Bioware constantly sticks to the "go-to-4-places-and-fetch-4-things" structure of main quests. They did it in KotOR, they did it multiple times in NWN. And they do it again in Dragon Age. Would it hurt to vary the plot structure a bit in different games?
Yes, it has something from *collect pieces of the starmap* and I liked BG2's *collect Gold, no matter how* better. The thing in itself is "ok", I think the implementation is a little "cheap"... You leave Lothringen and suddenly you can basically go anywhere whiteout having to search for it. Some more stuff to do in Denerim that actually leads you to the Quests, would have been better/more intresting (like for the Ashes, just longer). I don't know about the Dwarfs/Elves yet but the other two places are just like: You enter, shit hits the fan, you solve. That’s a little *simple* (I so knew what would happen in the Magetower right as I saw that you can/have to go back there...).
What would have been better - you NEED an army so you have to visit the places anyway.: Redcliff-Castle -> Leave it as it is. Temple -> fully optional (and harder!) but you get hints that you might be able to save the Lord.
Mage Tower -> Find first Enchanter in "the Fade" and the main quest would have been completed. Freeing or plundering the whole tower? Optional (and harder!). Btw: Is there something in the Basement? Didn't try/check that. Iirc the Magetower was pretty small anyway compared to Redcliff/Temple (with all the travelling to Denerim, Village and stuff... The temple itself felt a little to big for me)
A little more freedom just would give the game a better feel there are also to many meaningless fights (the full magetower from entry to the top has maybe 2 enemy groups that are a little challenging - if you just charge them, I hope this is better on nightmare).... So this enemies explode after you kill them? Make it hurt, or leave it.
On November 13 2009 00:58 Velr wrote: Mage Tower -> Find first Enchanter in "the Fade" and the main quest would have been completed. Freeing or plundering the whole tower? Optional (and harder!). Btw: Is there something in the Basement? Didn't try/check that.
The basement is related to a sidequest. You don't enter, but the door is relevant.
On November 13 2009 00:58 Velr wrote: A little more freedom just would give the game a better feel there are also to many meaningless fights (the full magetower from entry to the top has maybe 2 enemy groups that are a little challenging - if you just charge them, I hope this is better on nightmare).... So this enemies explode after you kill them? Make it hurt, or leave it.
I think the Circle Tower was intentionally combat-light given the adventures in the Fade. IMO if they wanted to make the Tower more interesting, they should have expanded on the puzzles in the Fade. I was especially disappointed at the point where you rescue your party members. All you get is a meaningless dialogue and an easy fight? IMO they could have really done some expanding on convincing your party members that they're in an illusion and that they should leave.
Btw: Can you solve the "Templars Nightmare" (the one were you don't get a new form) whiteout the spirit form? I was stuck in there for a pretty long time having all the other forms until i just went on to another dream and everything became easy.
On November 13 2009 01:13 Velr wrote: Btw: Can you solve the "Templars Nightmare" (the one were you don't get a new form) whiteout the spirit form? I was stuck in there for a pretty long time having all the other forms until i just went on to another dream and everything became easy.
You have to go through a Spirit Door to finish it, so you need Spirit Form.
Going to have to agree with annoying level scaling. It takes out a lot of fun from the games (sadly a lot of bioware games have scaling in one form or another, mass effect suffers from this too as does KOTOR2), and all your efforts in pimping your character with the best items in game are actually near pointless in the end (btw magic items suck in this game, there's only maybe 5-6 really epic items and even they don't decide the outcome of the battle as much as proper fireball placements).
Why bother getting exp and leveling when you can beat the final boss with an iron dagger (maybe not that drastic, but you get the idea).
I guess the dumb console kiddies can't handle being manhandled by a dragon (as you would in BG2 frequently), so they had to make sure you had a chance even if you were absolutely terrible.
My computer has an AMD Athlon XP 3200 (yes, its old), an nVidia GeForce 6600, and 2 GB of RAM. What are the chances I would be able to run this game decently at the lowest settings?
On November 13 2009 02:26 TarsTarkas wrote: My computer has an AMD Athlon XP 3200 (yes, its old), an nVidia GeForce 6600, and 2 GB of RAM. What are the chances I would be able to run this game decently at the lowest settings?
You probably won't even at lowest settings, you are below the minimum requirements.
On November 12 2009 22:04 Velr wrote: Btw: TOB was lacking and was bad compared to BG2.
I agree that ToB has a terrible linear scenario with a lot of non sense ( wtf Sarevok LOL ). It is also highly power gaming oriented. However gameplay and fights are GREAT.
I honestly think that the quality of scenarios in the BG serie is BG1> BG2 > ToB ( who cares about ToSC it has none lol ). I really enjoyed how you had to find why you are hunted by bounty hunters in BG1, also the revelation about your identity + all the Iron Throne machinations are great.
BG2 offers some better banters, decent class quests and way more interesting fights gameplay wise but its scenario isn't as interesting. It is basicly runing after Irenicus ( Sarevok was a way better badass boss btw ).
On November 13 2009 00:07 Velr wrote: (Severance: Blade of Darkness shows how it has to be done to be truly awesome).
Rune too ( love this game <3 )
On November 13 2009 00:07 Velr wrote: What Dragon Age lacks a bit, from what ive seen, is the *exploring* of BG2... BG2 had damn many buildings you could just enter... Some had nothing in them... Some had enemys... Some had damn hard enemies... Some had decent loot whiteout a fight at all. Thats the only thing i feel is really lacking, if a house is not needed for a quest, you can't get in.
The funny thing is that BG1 had even more zone to explore. One of my problems with BG2 is that it was too "urban". No more countryside zones
On November 13 2009 03:30 Velr wrote: I never liked the countryside zones. I really loved everything that was outside but kinda urban or in houses... BG2 had plenty of that .
Countryside zones with a level 1-3 group + this music was definitly one of the thing i enjoyed the most in BG1.
( and getting raped by wolves / ogres / Flind / Xvarts :D ) The lack of level scaling made your first run of the game REALLY hard and awesome because you could wander into "death zones" ( remember the maps with sirens / vampire wolves / basilics ? :p ). You could really feel the weakness of a beginner group. Also some encounters were really awesome ( Poe in Flammevin, Albert+Ruffie, Larry etc .. )
If you think about it, BG1 was actually much more massive in scale than DA:O. I mean, here I get to the capital market and it has like 4 houses I can enter, 2 of which are shops (lol) and 3 quest back alleys and 1 tavern/brothel.
In BG1 when you get to actual Baldur's Gate, the city is like what 6-7 areas, and then you have houses and sewers and temples in every area, it actually feels like a real medieval city. It felt so much more like a free world, and modern rpgs have very few areas where you can actually explore. Instead it feels very MMO-ized, NPCs have quest marks over their heads, they are all bunched up together in one location and most of the buildings are just for show.
On November 13 2009 08:18 Sadistx wrote: If you think about it, BG1 was actually much more massive in scale than DA:O. I mean, here I get to the capital market and it has like 4 houses I can enter, 2 of which are shops (lol) and 3 quest back alleys and 1 tavern/brothel.
In BG1 when you get to actual Baldur's Gate, the city is like what 6-7 areas, and then you have houses and sewers and temples in every area, it actually feels like a real medieval city. It felt so much more like a free world, and modern rpgs have very few areas where you can actually explore. Instead it feels very MMO-ized, NPCs have quest marks over their heads, they are all bunched up together in one location and most of the buildings are just for show.
Golden age of RPG is gone
On one hand I agree with you, on the other, it could get very tedious on subsequent playthroughs to reexplore every area again.
On November 12 2009 22:04 Velr wrote: Btw: TOB was lacking and was bad compared to BG2.
I agree that ToB has a terrible linear scenario with a lot of non sense ( wtf Sarevok LOL ). It is also highly power gaming oriented. However gameplay and fights are GREAT.
I honestly think that the quality of scenarios in the BG serie is BG1> BG2 > ToB ( who cares about ToSC it has none lol ). I really enjoyed how you had to find why you are hunted by bounty hunters in BG1, also the revelation about your identity + all the Iron Throne machinations are great.
BG2 offers some better banters, decent class quests and way more interesting fights gameplay wise but its scenario isn't as interesting. It is basicly runing after Irenicus ( Sarevok was a way better badass boss btw ).
edit: hunted by hunters lol
I agree, ToB still has some of the most epic fights ever conceived, although some were downright insane (that dragon that turned invisible every few seconds).
My best memories of ToB were playing it on LAN with my brother, only 2 party members each, and no pausingXD.
whats with all the enemies in the final battle having like 10 hp. They all drop in one hit exept the yellow and red ones. I doubt this was what they intended since it makes it laughably easy.
Think about it like an action movie gameguard. You commonly see your heroes slaying the lesser beasts in large battles with one stroke. I believe this is trying to simulate that atmosphere
god this game is so frustrating... It has been crashing at least 50 times now and I've lost about 10 hours of gameplay just replaying area after area. Am I really the only one having problem with constant crashes here? It seems so unlikely...
On November 14 2009 04:56 Shauni wrote: god this game is so frustrating... It has been crashing at least 50 times now and I've lost about 10 hours of gameplay just replaying area after area. Am I really the only one having problem with constant crashes here? It seems so unlikely...
Where did you buy the game from? Have you patched it to version 1.01?
On November 14 2009 05:28 orgolove wrote: Make him sleep with Morrigan and have her demon baby. That'll at least let you keep the romance till the end.
Wait, WHAT?
And here I was hoping that romances in Dragon Age made an ounce more sense than in other Bioware games.
It's possible. Not 100% sure about the world being completely saved, as you'll be letting the old god live within the fetus, but you and alistair will be alive, and alistair won't dump you.
1. If you make alistair the king, unless you are a female human noble, he will dump you, saying "we can't let this go on any longer." 2. If you do not let alistair sleep with morrigan and have the baby, one of you will have to sacrifice his/her own life to kill the god, and alistair sacrifices his own life.
#1 won't happen if you don't make him the king. #2 won't happen if you "go along with morrigan's plan" i.e. make alistair and morrigan sleep together, while you are watching -_-, let morrigan have her baby.
On November 12 2009 22:04 Velr wrote: Btw: TOB was lacking and was bad compared to BG2.
I agree that ToB has a terrible linear scenario with a lot of non sense ( wtf Sarevok LOL ). It is also highly power gaming oriented. However gameplay and fights are GREAT.
I honestly think that the quality of scenarios in the BG serie is BG1> BG2 > ToB ( who cares about ToSC it has none lol ). I really enjoyed how you had to find why you are hunted by bounty hunters in BG1, also the revelation about your identity + all the Iron Throne machinations are great.
BG2 offers some better banters, decent class quests and way more interesting fights gameplay wise but its scenario isn't as interesting. It is basicly runing after Irenicus ( Sarevok was a way better badass boss btw ).
edit: hunted by hunters lol
I agree, ToB still has some of the most epic fights ever conceived, although some were downright insane (that dragon that turned invisible every few seconds).
My best memories of ToB were playing it on LAN with my brother, only 2 party members each, and no pausingXD.
Agreed. ToB's story is not the best of the BG series but it had the best battles by far. Draconis (?) was one of the hardest bosses in any CRPG I've ever played. Having to chase him around, cast true sight, dispel his buffs every so often while positioning properly was pretty hard.
I actually don't mind the current town design as I'm not a very big fan of exploring and backtracking. I remember all the almost empty wilderness areas in BG1 and all I did was methodically walk back and forth clearing the entire map.
As for level scaling, I don't like it but it feels like a necessary evil in a non-linear world (Act 2 in just about every Bioware game starting from KOTOR). Otherwise, the difficulty starts out being very difficult then gradually becomes much easier. Honestly, I prefer stories that are a bit more linear instead of having a huge Act 2, since the story barely moves during that act.
On November 14 2009 04:56 Shauni wrote: god this game is so frustrating... It has been crashing at least 50 times now and I've lost about 10 hours of gameplay just replaying area after area. Am I really the only one having problem with constant crashes here? It seems so unlikely...
Where did you buy the game from? Have you patched it to version 1.01?
I bought it in store (not steam)... and yes, I patched, but the patch doesn't say it fixes any crashing bugs. I've tried a lot of various things, such as changing graphics drivers, under-clocking GPU and CPU, disabling phys-x, AA, experimenting with the graphic settings, shutting down every other program that might be interfering.
I'm quite sure there is nothing wrong with my computer, the crashes are not hardware-based. The screen goes black for a few seconds, the audio continues and then the game just shuts down with an error report. The crashes are completely random too, it can happen in a dialogue or in a battle or when you do nothing at all. I've read the Bioware technical support forum but to no avail. There is a huge thread about the exact same problem for people with Windows 7 and 64 bit, but I have XP so I'm clueless. EA handles the official support so it's pretty much useless. The only thing I can do is to wait for a new patch that hopefully fixes this.
On November 14 2009 06:57 andrewlt wrote: I actually don't mind the current town design as I'm not a very big fan of exploring and backtracking. I remember all the almost empty wilderness areas in BG1 and all I did was methodically walk back and forth clearing the entire map.
The thing about backtracking is that it helps to build the overall sense of the world. People ask you to do things in different places. It feels awkward if every locale is in its own little bubble and no one interacts with anyone outside that bubble.
On November 14 2009 06:57 andrewlt wrote: As for level scaling, I don't like it but it feels like a necessary evil in a non-linear world (Act 2 in just about every Bioware game starting from KOTOR). Otherwise, the difficulty starts out being very difficult then gradually becomes much easier. Honestly, I prefer stories that are a bit more linear instead of having a huge Act 2, since the story barely moves during that act.
BG/BG2 were actually level-scaled as well, it just felt more natural, because they scaled the enemies by type and number, rather than by just bumping the stats.
I think the thing that breaks the immersion for me is not the level scaling, but the gear scaling. Level-scaling can be designed to be non-intrusive, but gear-scaling can't do that, because people drop the gear they use. It just gets absurd by the end-game when you run into a pack of bandits, and they've all got dragonscale armor, dragonbone weapons, and dragonthorn bows.
On November 14 2009 06:57 andrewlt wrote: As for level scaling, I don't like it but it feels like a necessary evil in a non-linear world (Act 2 in just about every Bioware game starting from KOTOR). Otherwise, the difficulty starts out being very difficult then gradually becomes much easier. Honestly, I prefer stories that are a bit more linear instead of having a huge Act 2, since the story barely moves during that act.
BG/BG2 were actually level-scaled as well, it just felt more natural, because they scaled the enemies by type and number, rather than by just bumping the stats.
There were some random encounters with level scaling indeed but it was really minor imo. All the boss / named characters or monsters without "respawn" when the zone is cleared had no scaling.
So, just finished the game yesterday, and a two thoughts:
1) The enemies toward the end having like 10 HP each is kind of gimpy. In fact, on the whole, the end sequence was a little disappointing.
2) I feel like the combat sort of wound down in the latter half of the game, while there were more choices and consequences. It made for an overall sort of schizophrenic feel, but still managed to be fun.
Advice to those starting out:
1) Mages are definitely the strongest class, and I feel like Blood Mage/Arcane Warrior is definitely the strongest specialization combo, primarily because it pumps all your stat requirements into 2 stats. Armor/Weapons are based on magic. "Mana" is based on Constitution (since you cast off your health), and you get enough Cunning in the Mage Circle for skills. You just pump Magic and Constitution, and by the end of the game they're obscenely high.
2) Mana Clash, OMFG Mana Clash. I was pretty disappointed by the antimagic tree until I got this spell. It has limited use, but in the spots its useful, it's crazy (ironically like Feedback in SC). Mana Clash can one-hit a good percentage of the regular and elite mages, and even a lot of boss mages can't stand up to a Spellmighted Mana Clash.
3) As far as skills go, a lot of them are good for one-rank dips. The obvious one is Poison-Making, but Survival, Stealing, and Combat Training (for Mages, Rogues and Warriors obviously need to max it). Survival goes far, because most normal encounters don't involve enemies that are higher level than you. One rank in Stealing lets you steal from a lot of people, since there's no consequence for failing at stealing (which is pretty nonsensical), so you can just try again on people that are hard to steal from. Single-rank Combat Training is good for Arcane Warriors, because chance of interruption is based on damage dealt. Load up on massive armor, and enemies won't do enough damage to interrupt your casting.
This is a mod designed to let you dual wield Greatswords, Mauls, and/or Battleaxes (provided you have Dual Wield Master) or at least wield both these weapons and a shield at the same time. See screenshots for more info.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds Mana Clash to be obscenely strong against enemy mages. Seriously, the shit isn't even fair. With my warrior, I'd have to carefully plan engagements vs enemy groups with mages... with my mage, mana clash = instant rape. Force field is also nuts as it lets you set up perfect AoEs after your tank pulls and gets force fielded. That's one AI problem that's damn stupid: if an entity is inflicting no effect on another, it should switch targets.
From what I read elsewhere most people feel the game is hardest in the beginning and the combat becomes weaksauce lategame when builds and gears (and enough money to potion spam if that's your thing) are coming to fruition.
On mods, damods.com also has a fair number of mods. Unfortunately I've not seen a mod that makes the ending more epic (makes darkspawn not die to NPCs... I swear the elven archers 1 shot the mooks in the finale. So stupid.) I also found a mod on the Bioware forum that allows a male human to wear Duncan's robes.
The difficulty mods I've seen both introduce significant mage and potion nerfs, which should be fair steps to creating a more challenging lategame.
EDIT: I forgot to add that I wished this game had freaking pole-arms. I mean seriously, not even a single spear? They're easy to forget because swords are cool, but come on.
On November 16 2009 15:10 EchOne wrote: I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds Mana Clash to be obscenely strong against enemy mages. Seriously, the shit isn't even fair. With my warrior, I'd have to carefully plan engagements vs enemy groups with mages... with my mage, mana clash = instant rape. Force field is also nuts as it lets you set up perfect AoEs after your tank pulls and gets force fielded. That's one AI problem that's damn stupid: if an entity is inflicting no effect on another, it should switch targets.
My problem with the Force Field trick is actually that it reduces the value of having actually clever setups. Casting Storm of the Century into a room full of enemies, then Glyph of Repulsion on the doorway sounds cool--until you realize that simply throwing your tank in there and force fielding him accomplishes the same thing.
On November 16 2009 15:10 EchOne wrote: EDIT: I forgot to add that I wished this game had freaking pole-arms. I mean seriously, not even a single spear? They're easy to forget because swords are cool, but come on.
I think the issue with that is that spears and halberds demand rules for reach weapons. It becomes silly when a spear gets the same range considerations that a sword does, and it wouldn't surprise me if Bioware just got lazy in that regard.
I agree, Force Field abuse makes for boring battles. It was much more entertaining to try to set up Shockwaves or Paralysis Explosions, however suboptimal they might be in comparison.
I'm sure they have good reasons to be lazy. They'd have to create an entire talent block, default weapon animations, talent weapon animations, maybe even rehaul the entire range/positioning system if they want to account for range as you mentioned. Doesn't make me any less disappointed though.
On November 14 2009 06:57 andrewlt wrote: I actually don't mind the current town design as I'm not a very big fan of exploring and backtracking. I remember all the almost empty wilderness areas in BG1 and all I did was methodically walk back and forth clearing the entire map.
The thing about backtracking is that it helps to build the overall sense of the world. People ask you to do things in different places. It feels awkward if every locale is in its own little bubble and no one interacts with anyone outside that bubble.
True, but on the other hand, the constant traveling can feel like a waste of time without much going on.
Different type of game, but I know that was a much bigger problem for World of Warcraft early on. A lot of players would just press num lock and alt-tab on some especially long walks.
All I can suggest is sweeping Geniviti's home again with Tab on. When I did it I never even went to Lake Calenhad, just went straight to Haven after grilling and killing the fake Weylon.
First post rawr. So far, I really like the game, but it definitely could have been better. If you've played other Bioware games you can definitely see their standard go to 4 places and get 4 things main quest line. I think they did a reasonable job with the plot despite this though, especially the Orzramar? (probably slaughtered that) quest line. I think the plot writing there was pretty fantastic. Another thing I've noticed is it seems like there are a lot of pointless encounters in some places. It feels like they are extendning the area by making you wade through multiple unchallenging encounters that are basically the same, the Carta hide out in Orzramar stands out as a prime example. I've got no problem with extending the area like that, but give the fights some variability. I think something that could have helped a lot in this regard was to give enemies different talents sets. Every enemy of a type had the exact same talent sets; I think it would have added to the game to have some variability in this, so that the 2 archers standing next to eachother aren't identical.
As for specializations and classes, the blood mage and arcane warrior is definitely the most powerful combo, as others have pointed out. Mages are more powerful than the other classes in general. Having 1 warrior, Alistair in particular, feels necessary at least for tanking purposes. Rogues aren't terrible, but don't feel necessary most of the time. Their damage output is nice, but doesn't compare to mages. I feel it is useful to have 1 in the party though, for lock picking. Also the ranger specialization is quite strong. I had Leliana sitting in camp all game and finally leveled her up, giving her all the ranger talents in the process. So I don't know about low levels, but this should give you an idea of how powerful it can be. Leliana was level 18 and summoned a bear ... the bear had 500 HP and did reasonable damage. That damage when added to her own ended up being pretty respectable. My favorite line up would be: warrior (shield style), rogue (ranger), mage (spirit healer), mage (damage/CC).
I saw some posts earlier talking about the level flow, not knowing which order you should do things and Bioware not giving you clues. I actually felt like there was a decent path to follow. After Flemeth rescues you, you can ask Alistair what he thinks you should do next. He responds go to Redcliffe, which I believe was Bioware's way of saying that was a good place to start. Now they make you go to some village, Lotherin I think, on the way. At which point I thought it would be a good idea to finish there before proceeding, since there was a general sense of panic about the darkspawn arriving there shortly, which is a bit of Bioware foreshadowing Lotherin won't be there long. So you finish there and go to Redcliffe. At the end of the Redcliffe quest line, one of the options is to get some more mages there instead of sacrificing the woman to get into the fade. So the Mage tower is the next natural choice, when you finish there back to Redcliffe to finish up. This is the first point in the game where Bioware really doesn't give you a dialogue cue of what to do next. I don't think it matters which order you do the last 3 main quests, but this was my thought process. If you look at the map you could see the way the blight was spreading, by this time Lotherin had already fell. The Daelish camp was the next closest location so I decided it would be good to go there next just in case it would eventually fall too. It was also on the way to Denerim which is where you have to go to start the ashes quest. So do the elf stuff, stop in Denerim to do some quests and start the ashes. Then head to the mountains and do dwarves and ashes. But, that's just my opinion on what Bioware intended to be the natural flow.
I'm officially addicted to this game. I'm restarting as a rogue and trying to play through on nightmare. Game is fucking HARD AS FROZEN BALLS on nightmare mode. You have to plan every damned thing.
Trap making and poison making and grenades and such are like necessities now lol. Makes the game very fun if not a lot slower, o.o;
And I'm a human this time, so hopefully I can actually freaking marry Alistair this time around, ^.^
My favorite was the dwarf commoner beginning. You truly started from the lowest of the low, "casteless" in a casteless society. Only in the dwarf commoner beginning do you face off against the best fighters of the realm, in a literal stadium in front of the entire Dwarven kingdom. It is of my opinion that only in the dwarf commoner origin that you truly prove your worth as a Grey Warden. Plus, the scene where you take off your helmet, and the screen closes up no the helmet, followed by a gradual panning out was so, so dramatic. It enraptured me immediately, and that was just within the first 20 minutes of the game.
Man, that you could say "I am casteless and yet I have defeated the best of you!" in front of all those arrogant pricks was sooo satisfying. And only in this origin does Duncan really heartfelt support, with his pivotal comments: "I beg of you, stop the guards! Didn't this man/woman defeat the best you could offer?" "this casteless man/woman has no place here" "except, as your champion." And then he walks away. Ohhhhhh that was so orgasmic.
Truly, the dwarf commoner origin was such a masterpiece. It really set the tone for how great the game would unfold.
Man, if only the other origin stories were even half as good.
Does anyone else have a load time problem for the PC version? If so, was the problem fixed with the latest patch? I'm currently away from my gaming system and can't check it out for myself :/
On November 19 2009 05:34 Haemonculus wrote: Game is fucking HARD AS FROZEN BALLS as a rogue on nightmare mode.
Fixed.
Nightmare is fine as a mage. Once you have the basics of what's good and not, it's pretty straightforward, so long as you take care to micro everything. It's being a rogue that makes it stupid hard, because rogues have no combat power compared to mages and warriors. Unless you truly hate yourself, I'd strongly recommend getting the dexterity fix for dagger damage. Otherwise, have fun doing 1-2 damage per hit against the Archdemon.
On November 19 2009 05:34 orgolove wrote: What were you guys' favorite origin story?
Dwarf Commoner and Dwarf Noble were the two best origins, IIRC. They were well written and actually have some solid C&C.
On November 19 2009 06:10 jpopidol wrote: Does anyone else have a load time problem for the PC version? If so, was the problem fixed with the latest patch? I'm currently away from my gaming system and can't check it out for myself :/
The game has memory leak issues, so if you play in long sessions, load times will get lengthier as you go. IIRC there's no fix yet.
I'm *trying* to be an archer, but I'm not sure if it's possible! I miss wayyyy too much. But then stunning them and stabbing them in the face from behind once they get close to me is lotsa fun, ^.^;
On November 19 2009 07:27 Haemonculus wrote: Oh? What is the dexterity fix?
I'm *trying* to be an archer, but I'm not sure if it's possible! I miss wayyyy too much. But then stunning them and stabbing them in the face from behind once they get close to me is lotsa fun, ^.^;
Daggers are supposed to get 0.5 damage per point of Strength and Dexterity, instead of 1 per point of Strength like other weapons. They didn't do that. Shortbows are supposed to get 1 damage per point of Dexterity instead of 0.5 per point of Strength and Dexterity. Again, they didn't do that.
There are also some general buffs to bows/crossbows that balance them in relation to staves (which pre-fix were arguably the better ranged weapons--never miss, elemental damage, max armor penetration, and better stats for the user). Bows and crossbows after the fix have improved range, accuracy, armor penetration, base damage, and crit chance.
So yeah, being an archer will most definitely be more manageable with the fix.
On November 19 2009 07:27 Haemonculus wrote: Oh? What is the dexterity fix?
I'm *trying* to be an archer, but I'm not sure if it's possible! I miss wayyyy too much. But then stunning them and stabbing them in the face from behind once they get close to me is lotsa fun, ^.^;
Daggers are supposed to get 0.5 damage per point of Strength and Dexterity, instead of 1 per point of Strength like other weapons. They didn't do that. Shortbows are supposed to get 1 damage per point of Dexterity instead of 0.5 per point of Strength and Dexterity. Again, they didn't do that.
There are also some general buffs to bows/crossbows that balance them in relation to staves (which pre-fix were arguably the better ranged weapons--never miss, elemental damage, max armor penetration, and better stats for the user). Bows and crossbows after the fix have improved range, accuracy, armor penetration, base damage, and crit chance.
So yeah, being an archer will most definitely be more manageable with the fix.
Ack, my core folder does not have an "override" folder. Should I make one...? o.O;
On November 19 2009 11:57 Amnesia wrote: Is there any solid tutorial on how I can build a strong Mage? How about for Warrior and Rogue? I would like to try out the other two classes as well.
Not that I know of. I could put together something if you'd like. I'm probably heavily biased by my playstyle, but I think I can be general enough about it. At least I could give some ratings on spells and stuff.
Yeah please do. I am not really that good at RPG's. I picked Human Mage (Male if that matters) and I need to light up the beacon. But I'm getting raped. It's still at an early stage of the game, so that can't be good right? I just think I'm not an RPG type of player as I seem to always struggle with the type of spells/abilities as well as skill points I should invest on my character. I think I already screwed up my Mage too! >_<
Not just for mage, but can anyone tell me how I can put my skill points for better use in general? I seem to not really understand it that well.
On November 19 2009 12:02 Amnesia wrote: Yeah please do. I am not really that good at RPG's. I picked Human Mage (Male if that matters) and I need to light up the beacon. But I'm getting raped. It's still at an early stage of the game, so that can't be good right? I just think I'm not an RPG type of player as I seem to always struggle with the type of spells/abilities as well as skill points I should invest on my character. I think I already screwed up my Mage too! >_<
KK well here goes. My shoddy attempt at a mage guide:
Obviously only 2 choices. The stats for elf are unquestionably better, but the real issue is if racial enmity towards elves is strong enough to make playing a human an easier time. IMO not a big difference.
Strength - dump stat. You don't need armor/weapons unless you're an Arcane Warrior, in which case Magic supersedes this.
Dexterity - dump stat. Enough mage equipment gives +Defense that you don't need Dexterity for more.
Willpower - One of the tougher stats to deal with. A dump stat if you plan on being a Blood Mage (since having HP is more versatile), worth some points for anyone else.
Magic - Your most important stat without question. Any mage should hit 30-34 as soon as is reasonable (to maximize your spell access). If you have the Blood Dragon Plate and are planning to play an Arcane Warrior, you should strive to hit 38 Strength so you can wear it right away. Any Arcane Warrior should hope to hit 42 before they finish Orzammar/the Urn of Sacred Ashes (since those open access to the only Massive Armors worth the Fatigue, Blood Dragon Plate aside).
Because of the Spellpower boost (which translates into better mana regeneration from the Rejuvenation spell) and potion effectiveness payoffs for points in Magic, it's arguable that points in Magic are a better investment in the longevity of your mana pool than Willpower. While it may not be viable on higher difficulties given the length of some of the hard fights in the game, a Magic/Constitution only build is certainly viable on Easy and Normal (and on any difficulty for Blood Mages).
Cunning - The only relevant skill for a mage is Coercion. You might consider pumping it to 16, but you can get 5 points of permanent Cunning increase in the Mage Circle. Put 1 point if you want to get the 2nd rank of Coercion before then and absolutely don't want to miss some of the early Persuade/Intimidate checks. Otherwise, don't increase this (human's start with 12, so you should never increase it as a Human--you'll have finished the Mage Circle before you need 3rd rank Coercion).
Constitution - For non Blood Mages: just enough to not die to criticals or heavy nuking from enemies. For Blood Mages: every point you don't put in Magic.
These apply generally to Warrior and Rogue as well. The only real difference is that Rogues and Warriors should get 1 rank in Poison-making, and obviously need to max combat training.
Coercion - One of the few skills you can't get someone else to do. I usually max this one, because it's basically the only skill that restricts quests/roleplaying options, and it's best to have those open.
Stealing/Herbalism - Get someone else to do it. Neither is immediately urgent (steal out of combat, and make potions in advance), so you never need to have your main character learn these.
Poison-Making - One rank if you're an Arcane Warrior, so you can apply poisons to your weapons. Otherwise, get someone else to do it.
Survival/Trapmaking - One rank. One rank in Survival goes surprisingly far, because most enemies are lower than your level. The ones that aren't are generally boss encounters anyway (which, if triggered with a cutscene, you can't really prepare for anyway). Trapmaking lets you use traps, which you can get someone else to make.
Combat Training - One rank if you're an Arcane Warrior, any extra points if you aren't. Since spell interruption is generally damage-based, wearing Massive Armor generally mitigates the chances of spell interruption, so one rank is enough.
Combat Tactics - Any spare. More tactics slots is always good.
Blood Mage - the best Specialization. I always make Morrigan and Wynne take these as their second specialization at level 14. It offers unparalleled versatility due to the ability to cast off of health (meaning that you can dump Willpower).
Arcane Warrior/Spirit Healer - This one's close. Arcane Warrior is ostensibly better, but there aren't enough good armors to go around if you have more than 1, and having an Arcane Warrior wear subpar armor isn't worth it. Spirit Healer is definitely worth having one of--in-combat revival and making Injury Kits useless are good powers to have, but Wynne starts as one. If you don't like Blood Mage for roleplaying purposes, Spirit Healer is a suitable replacement.
Shapeshifter - Would be on par with the above two if shapeshifting didn't have such a long cast time/weren't interruptible. As is, doing nothing for the cast time, and still having the risk of getting interrupted is not worth the gain from the shifted forms.
I rank these from 0 to 10. As a rough idea: 0 - no build ever should get this line 5 - this line is good in the right build, but mediocre outside of it 10 - this line should be taken by every mage, regardless of build
Also, relevant spell-combos I reference: Paralysis Explosion - Glyph of Paralysis + Glyph of Repulsion = poor man's Mass Paralysis Storm of the Century - Tempest + Spellmighted Blizzard or Blizzard + Spellmighted Tempest = huge ice storm that can do 70-80 damage per tick.
Mage line - 2/10. You start with the best spell in the line. Arcane Shield is not worth the upkeep. Staff damage generally isn't relevant enough for you to care. Passive spellpower is nice, but not worth wasting 3 levels of spells to get.
Fire line - 4/10. Flame Blast does good damage against enemies weak to fire, but is mediocre against anything else. The only real spell of note of this line is Fireball. Once you get into the habit, you'll open a lot of combats with Fireball. It's fast-casting, has decent range, does solid damage, and has a reliable interruption effect. Inferno is less impressive than Tempest or Blizzard, so I'd get this line up to Fireball if you want it at all.
Earth line - 6/10. Rock Armor won't get used much, but Stonefist is great for interrupting/shattering frozen targets, Earthquake's knockdown-over-time makes it a good setup spell for Blizzard/Tempest, and Petrify is a reliable single-target disable. Wynne starts with Rock Armor and Stonefist, so it's not usually worth it getting this line on someone else, but it gets a lot of use out of her.
Ice line - 9/10. Definitely the best primal line. Winter's Grasp is spammable damage, Cone of Cold is a strong candidate for best spell in the game, and and Blizzard contributes to the godly spell combo Storm of the Century. Morrigan starts with Frost Weapons, so I gave her Cone of Cold, and I had my main character get this line all the way up to Blizzard.
Lightning line - 6/10. Damage, but not much else. Morrigan starts with Lightning, so I had her max this line. Chain Lightning is a bit underwhelming, but you definitely want Tempest because Storm of the Century owns so hard.
Heal line - 8/10. Rejuvenation rocks. Morrigan + Hero + Wynne cross-rejuvenating one another gives you ridiculously deep mana. I got heal + rejuvenate on all 3 mages, but that's because heal gets a lot more mileage from Blood Mages than from anyone else (and all 3 of my mages were Blood Mages). Only Wynne needs Mass Rejuvenation because you shouldn't need it that often, and Regenerate is less amazing than the other spells in the line.
Heroic line - 5/10. Better in warrior-centric parties, but warrior-centric parties are poorer overall than mage-centric ones. I let Wynne max this because Haste greatly reduces the tedium of going back and forth around the world and she starts with Heroic Offense-Heroic Defense. Tip: because of the short duration of this line of spells, let the tactics handle autocasting it (Heroic Offense on warriors, Heroic Defense on allies being attacked in melee, and Heroic Aura on allies being attacked at range). It will save you a lot of trouble.
Glyph line - 8/10. Not a lot of power, but makes up for it in versatility. The four spells in this line cover crowd control, interruption, defensive buffing, and antimagic together. Not the best at what they do (aiming paralysis explosions without triggering one glyph or another accidentally is annoying), but you get a lot of mileage out of them.
Summon line - 3/10. This line is probably better than what I've rated it, but from my experience, it just feels like a hodgepodge of spells that don't do enough that's useful. Spell Wisp is like a Spell Might that doesn't link into spell combos. Grease has gotten resisted for me more often than I like. Spellbloom is superfluous with Rejuvenation/Mass Rejuvenation, and Stinging Swarm just doesn't do enough in the duration of a combat. Someone will probably tell me that this is like the Glyph line, trading power for versatility, but I feel like it gives up too much power for not enough versatility.
Dispelling line - 5/10. Limited use, but incredibly useful in the times its used. You'll need a Dispel Magic on hand once Genlock Emissaries and Hurlock Emissaries start casting Crushing Prisons, so either have 2 casters learn Dispel Magic, or have one caster learn Anti-Magic Ward, and always cast it on himself in relevant combats. Interesting fact: a certain ending to the Dalish Elves quest line can be beaten by casting a single Anti-Magic Burst, and then sitting back and laughing.
Mana line - 8/10. This line would be a 5/10 were it not for the last spell in the line. Mana Clash is that good. Think of Feedback in Starcraft. Now imagine it as an Area of Effect spell. Now think that with higher spellpower, the ratio of damage dealt:mana burnt can be made greater than 1. A single cast generally kills regular spellcasters outright, leaves yellow-name spellcasters with 1 hp, and generally takes about half the health off a boss spellcaster.
Death line - 4/10. Disclaimer: I have not had a lot of experience with this line. From my brief experimentation, my thoughts were that Walking Bomb and Virulent Walking Bomb were good, but just damage and nothing interesting, Death Syphon was not good enough in combat, and Animate Dead was more of a hassle to micro than it was worth.
Telekinetic line - 9/10. This line is so close to being 10/10 that I can think of a number of small changes that would make this an easy 10/10. Mind Blast is a lifesaver, and a perfect setup spell for Cone of Cold. Force Field beats any other single spell in the game for versatility. Telekinetic Weapons, the worst spell in the line, makes Warrior-heavy parties rape armored foes. Crushing Prison is basically auto-win vs. mages and yellow-names. I got this on both my main character and Morrigan, and its arguable that getting Force Field on Wynne is a worthwhile investment.
Paralysis line - 7/10. Weakness is solid, but gets resisted a LOT at higher levels. Paralysis is amazing, but the cooldown is too long to make it spammable. Miasma has been hit-or-miss for me, but it's another sustained spell for Arcane Warriors to use. Mass Paralysis is an "I Win" button if you can get it off, but I think on Nightmare, the AI is smart enough to prevent you from doing that unless you've solidly invested in Combat Training.
Hex line - 7/10. The first two hexes are great setup spells for your other damaging spells. Misdirection Hex is the real gem here. It effectively nullifies any non-caster enemy that you cast it on, since they can't hit anything unless they make a critical hit. Death Hex is neat, but not amazing enough to be necessary.
Sleep line - 6/10. The spells here are potentially powerful, but take a lot of micro to make effective. Ideally, you want to to set up Sleep-Horror and Sleep-Waking Nightmare combos, but you have to manage your other characters so they don't attack your sleeping enemies. Can be a lot more trouble than it's worth sometimes, especially when you're playing with other AoE spells like Cone of Cold, that are less restrictive.
Drain line - 3/10. Without Vulnerability Hex, Drain Life simply doesn't do enough. You never want Death Magic to be relevant (e.g. you should keep aggro off your mages enough that they don't need to keep up a sustained spell for healing), and you should have enough anti-caster power from Spirit spells that Curse of Mortality should never be relevant. Death Cloud is the only real saving grace here, but it's no Mana Clash or even Fireball--it's decent, but not good enough to save an already mediocre spell line.
While your build may vary based on your playstyle, I did the following: 1-3: Telekinetic line 4: Winter's Grasp 5-6: Heal, Rejuvenation 7: Blood Magic 8-10: Mana line (you should reasonably be able to afford a book for an extra spell here) 11-12: Frost Weapons, Cone of Cold 13: Spell Shield, Dispel Magic (again, you can probably afford a book here if you haven't needed to splurge too much on potions) 14: Combat Magic 15: Blizzard 16-18: Rest of Blood Mage specialization
From there on out, I just took whatever looked good.
Any comments, particularly on spell ratings, are welcome.
On November 19 2009 12:02 Amnesia wrote: It's still at an early stage of the game, so that can't be good right?
The game actually starts out pretty hard and gets progressively easier. Lighting that beacon might be the most difficult storyline quest in the game in terms of the difficulty of each encounter involved.
Does willpower affect mana regeneration or just total mana? What about spellpower? From the post above, it seems it's just spellpower for potions. What about mana regeneration?
On November 19 2009 07:27 Haemonculus wrote: Oh? What is the dexterity fix?
I'm *trying* to be an archer, but I'm not sure if it's possible! I miss wayyyy too much. But then stunning them and stabbing them in the face from behind once they get close to me is lotsa fun, ^.^;
Daggers are supposed to get 0.5 damage per point of Strength and Dexterity, instead of 1 per point of Strength like other weapons. They didn't do that. Shortbows are supposed to get 1 damage per point of Dexterity instead of 0.5 per point of Strength and Dexterity. Again, they didn't do that.
There are also some general buffs to bows/crossbows that balance them in relation to staves (which pre-fix were arguably the better ranged weapons--never miss, elemental damage, max armor penetration, and better stats for the user). Bows and crossbows after the fix have improved range, accuracy, armor penetration, base damage, and crit chance.
So yeah, being an archer will most definitely be more manageable with the fix.
Ack, my core folder does not have an "override" folder. Should I make one...? o.O;
I'm kinda scared of breaking my game, lol
I found mine on the my documents folder instead of where the game installs. Keep in mind that the fix would not just fix your archers but enemy archers as well. Encounters with archers would be harder with it.
A ranger is actually good with a blood mage. The pet is excellent fodder.
I've got a question that I hope someone who made a different decision than me might be able to answer. I''ll put it in a spoiler tag because of the plot spoilers.
Anyway, so my question involves killing the arch demon. Either a grey warden has to sacrifice themselves to kill it or use Morrigan's ritual. I had Loghain (spelling?) executed. If you spare him though, he becomes a grey warden. I was wondering if there was anyone out there who spared him, that might be able to answer this question. Can Loghain be the one who lands the killing blow and sacrifices himself? If no one can answer, I plan on testing that out on my next play through.
On November 20 2009 03:26 789 wrote: I've got a question that I hope someone who made a different decision than me might be able to answer. I''ll put it in a spoiler tag because of the plot spoilers.
Anyway, so my question involves killing the arch demon. Either a grey warden has to sacrifice themselves to kill it or use Morrigan's ritual. I had Loghain (spelling?) executed. If you spare him though, he becomes a grey warden. I was wondering if there was anyone out there who spared him, that might be able to answer this question. Can Loghain be the one who lands the killing blow and sacrifices himself? If no one can answer, I plan on testing that out on my next play through.
On November 20 2009 03:26 789 wrote: I've got a question that I hope someone who made a different decision than me might be able to answer. I''ll put it in a spoiler tag because of the plot spoilers.
Anyway, so my question involves killing the arch demon. Either a grey warden has to sacrifice themselves to kill it or use Morrigan's ritual. I had Loghain (spelling?) executed. If you spare him though, he becomes a grey warden. I was wondering if there was anyone out there who spared him, that might be able to answer this question. Can Loghain be the one who lands the killing blow and sacrifices himself? If no one can answer, I plan on testing that out on my next play through.
On November 20 2009 02:52 andrewlt wrote: Does willpower affect mana regeneration or just total mana? What about spellpower? From the post above, it seems it's just spellpower for potions. What about mana regeneration?
Mana regeneration is not directly affected by any of the six primary attributes. It IS affected by spells, which is why I say the Magic stat indirectly affects mana regeneration--higher spellpower increases the duration of mana regeneration spells like Spellbloom and Rejuvenation.
On November 19 2009 12:21 TheYango wrote: Death Syphon was not good enough in combat
I have to disagree here. I play a primal-heavy build with some telekinetic and death spells spliced in. Death Syphon is what allows me to constantly spam AoE spells during combat. That and having Wynne constantly lending me mana
On November 19 2009 12:21 TheYango wrote: Death Syphon was not good enough in combat
I have to disagree here. I play a primal-heavy build with some telekinetic and death spells spliced in. Death Syphon is what allows me to constantly spam AoE spells during combat. That and having Wynne constantly lending me mana
Hmm, as I said, my experience with the Death line was pretty limited. What are your thoughts on the line as a whole? Is the spell combo of Spellmighted Animate Dead any good?
I really enjoyed my first runthrough of the game, I set it to easy after dieing 5 times to a simple group of bandits in lotharing, and had myself a fun storyline and hack and slash. The difficulty goes way down as the game progresses and you get more gear/skill options. incredible storyline and characters, offering extremely different ways to play each time.
my first playthrough was a backstab rogue, now I'm going bloodmage, and then next playthrough I plan on going a triple rogue as archer into ranger group build with 1 healer and see how that is...
I definitely am finding playing as the mage much easier, even on normal difficulty now, you simply get so much more control options...
The limitation of Death Syphon is that by the time you've killed enough enemies to get any mana back from it, the hard part of the battle is over and you don't really need the mana. It'll speed up your post-battle recovery, but isn't very useful during fights. One exception is the Redcliff village event where waves of enemies keep coming at you.
The walking bomb spells do a huge amount of damage. Virulent walking bomb explosions will do 200+ damage even early in the game, which obviously wipes everything out. If you're playing on hard, that includes your party. You'll live through it on normal on the PC version, but it's not worth it. You can try to stun all the enemies and run away before the bomb goes off or use force field, but the micromanagement is a pain in the ass when you could instead just throw fireballs and cone of cold. With no friendly fire, those spells are absurdly broken though (as if the other AoE damage spells aren't).
Never tried a spellmighted animate dead, but the spell isn't that great by itself. My biggest problem with it is that it just doesn't work half the time. At least it doesn't cost anything if it fails, but I never figured out why certain enemies can be animated and others can't (or if that was even the problem). The skeletons can hold aggro and do a little bit of crowd control and damage, but they aren't all that interesting.
Giving that line a 4/10 might even be too generous.
Playing a second time through, I downloaded a mod that remove auto-level for new party members(IE you get to pick all your party members stats/skills when they join your party) and ITS INCREDIBLE. The more I play my new mage I just realize how some spells serve no real purpose at all. IE: the entire shapeshift tree.
why do people say the difficulty goes down? I play on hard and I did the dwarven place last. That fucking spider queen killed me like 50 times before I had to put it on normal (for the first time) in frustration just to defeat that thing (broodmother was way easier). Previously in the game I didn't really die that often, but it really hurts having no mage later on in the game.
so i rescued the queen bla bla bla, now i need to go to the alienage. it says i should talk to shianni. i right-click her, and nothing happens, she just says random crap.
what am i doing wrong? i killed everyone in that warehouse including that mage guy ages ago.
On November 20 2009 15:18 GTR wrote: another problem, sorry if this is bothering people but i want to finish the game by the end of the weekend.
so i rescued the queen bla bla bla, now i need to go to the alienage. it says i should talk to shianni. i right-click her, and nothing happens, she just says random crap.
what am i doing wrong? i killed everyone in that warehouse including that mage guy ages ago.
you should put some of this in a spoiler. That said
you should check your journal. If it states that you've collected your evidence and are ready for the townsmeet than you can just continue. The quest stays open until after you have finished that as you have to use the letter that the slaver gave you against loghain.
There should be a back alley behind the slaver's building. Did you get the note inside the building and show it to Shianni? She should tell you to head to the apartments behind the building if you did.
On November 19 2009 12:21 TheYango wrote: Death Syphon was not good enough in combat
I have to disagree here. I play a primal-heavy build with some telekinetic and death spells spliced in. Death Syphon is what allows me to constantly spam AoE spells during combat. That and having Wynne constantly lending me mana
Hmm, as I said, my experience with the Death line was pretty limited. What are your thoughts on the line as a whole? Is the spell combo of Spellmighted Animate Dead any good?
I only have the two first spells in the line so far. :/ I will agree with you that telekinesis is a bit too good though. Enemies should lose all aggro for an ally that is energy fielded. Even then, having three mages all with prison + energy field makes any non-boss battle with less than 8 opponents sooo easy
so i choose the supposely good dialog and now got into a fight with zartherin inside the ruin. and my werewolf allies are just standing there watching me get pound into the ground. Are they suppose to attack or just stand ard as the background?
On November 20 2009 11:45 Shauni wrote: why do people say the difficulty goes down? I play on hard and I did the dwarven place last. That fucking spider queen killed me like 50 times before I had to put it on normal (for the first time) in frustration just to defeat that thing (broodmother was way easier). Previously in the game I didn't really die that often, but it really hurts having no mage later on in the game.
I guess which battles are hard depends a lot on how your party is composed. The dwarf place has to be the one of the hardest parts of the game though, if not the hardest. I did that place first and had problems with some of the bossfights. Later in the game it just seems like the number of enemies increases instead of enemies getting better which isn't really a problem if you have good CC/AoE.
so i choose the supposely good dialog and now got into a fight with zartherin inside the ruin. and my werewolf allies are just standing there watching me get pound into the ground. Are they suppose to attack or just stand ard as the background?
They actually don't stand around. If you know your spell effects, they're actually held by a Mass Paralysis effect. This is the ending i was referring to in my spell guide. If you have Dispel Magic, you can dispel all the werewolves, and they literally do the entire fight for you. Without that, the fight is harder. Hopefully you have some anticaster magic to deal with Zathrian.
On November 20 2009 11:45 Shauni wrote: why do people say the difficulty goes down? I play on hard and I did the dwarven place last. That fucking spider queen killed me like 50 times before I had to put it on normal (for the first time) in frustration just to defeat that thing (broodmother was way easier). Previously in the game I didn't really die that often, but it really hurts having no mage later on in the game.
I guess which battles are hard depends a lot on how your party is composed. The dwarf place has to be the one of the hardest parts of the game though, if not the hardest. I did that place first and had problems with some of the bossfights. Later in the game it just seems like the number of enemies increases instead of enemies getting better which isn't really a problem if you have good CC/AoE.
The Deep Roads is easy if you do it last. It's naturally hard if you do it first, because it's designed to be the 4th place you go to, and the enemies are scaled to an 8+ level party (naturally, you'll only be level 6ish if you go there first.
I recently made a new character since I noticed I missed some quests early on and had built my character to be quite mediocre... I had to rise the difficulty to Hard to make it feel even similar what it had been on Normal before (could be fault of patches too, since they made easy and normal easier).
Maybe I'll try setting it to Nightmare if things keep going this smooth. I guess having all the specializations you want unlocked from previous game makes it bit easier too. Also bombs are awesome, basically lets your Rogue throw an equivalent of Fireball with minor cooldown and I think different bombs don't share cooldowns. Only downside is the cost of reagents if you have spent most of money elsewhere.
Still have to experiment with traps, if they work even half as good as bombs and poisons I guess playing some sort of CC/AoE Rogue would be possible without stamina limits. No idea how fast or how much the usefulness declines towards end game.
Currently playing Str/Dex Dual Wielding Dwarven Rogue, horrible stamina drain with all the armors, but backstabs (or Coup De Grace hits on face against stunned/paralyzed) with powerful weapons coated in quite potent poisons deals damage... fast. Momentum included.
On November 20 2009 17:45 Hyaach wrote: does the gems like diamond garnet have any purpose at all? or can i sell them all?
Topazes, Malachites, Amethysts, and Sapphires can be donated to the dwarves after you've recruited them (I *think* it makes their forces stronger in the endgame, but not sure). Garnets are required for a certain quest. The rest are sellable I think.
cool mod. I think u should have given it to mage. Maybe change the shapeshifter tree into summoner tree. Its kinda messed up that a ranger would summon demons lol.
On November 20 2009 11:45 Shauni wrote: why do people say the difficulty goes down? I play on hard and I did the dwarven place last. That fucking spider queen killed me like 50 times before I had to put it on normal (for the first time) in frustration just to defeat that thing (broodmother was way easier). Previously in the game I didn't really die that often, but it really hurts having no mage later on in the game.
I guess which battles are hard depends a lot on how your party is composed. The dwarf place has to be the one of the hardest parts of the game though, if not the hardest. I did that place first and had problems with some of the bossfights. Later in the game it just seems like the number of enemies increases instead of enemies getting better which isn't really a problem if you have good CC/AoE.
The Deep Roads is easy if you do it last. It's naturally hard if you do it first, because it's designed to be the 4th place you go to, and the enemies are scaled to an 8+ level party (naturally, you'll only be level 6ish if you go there first.
Dude I was level 16 when I did it. I had problems with other bossfights on hard before, but that spiderqueen was just ridiculous. Except for summoning her corrupted spiders every time she lost some hp, the range attack was crazy. One poison spit and a party member is down, and she does it on everyone until you get up close.
killed the mage leader of the Tevinter slavers? If you have, Tab the room where you killed him: his body or an unlocked chest should have "Slaver Documents." You need these documents to progress the storyline. If you haven't killed him, keep going through the Apartments and Alleyways till you reach the Warehouse. You can deal with him in other ways, but I killed him, so I don't know how to get the documents otherwise.
On demons and shapeshifting: there's already a mod that accomplishes this, but I think Ranger summons are a more balance-appropriate move. The shapeshifting mod I've seen makes shapeshifting instant and allows forms such as Ash Wraith and Pride Demon among others. However, Mages are already the best class, and even with these fixes, shapeshifting remains the worst spec... because AC/BM is still hands-down better. Giving Rogues a combat reason to be in your party is better for class balance IMO. Haven't tested the Ranger Summons yet so I've no clue if they're overpowered or not.
There has been some work dedicated to making High Dragon ala Flemeth a viable shapeshift, but since they fly/jump around rather than walk around there have been problems regarding their movement. I have the feeling that a party with 3 High Dragons would be somewhat on the broken side though.
On November 21 2009 00:32 EchOne wrote: GTR, have you + Show Spoiler +
killed the mage leader of the Tevinter slavers? If you have, Tab the room where you killed him: his body or an unlocked chest should have "Slaver Documents." You need these documents to progress the storyline. If you haven't killed him, keep going through the Apartments and Alleyways till you reach the Warehouse. You can deal with him in other ways, but I killed him, so I don't know how to get the documents otherwise.
so im given this note to join the crows. anyone tried killing him? i have a level 10ish party and im getting absolutely raped every time i try. lol any tips?
On November 20 2009 02:52 andrewlt wrote: Does willpower affect mana regeneration or just total mana? What about spellpower? From the post above, it seems it's just spellpower for potions. What about mana regeneration?
Mana regeneration is not directly affected by any of the six primary attributes. It IS affected by spells, which is why I say the Magic stat indirectly affects mana regeneration--higher spellpower increases the duration of mana regeneration spells like Spellbloom and Rejuvenation.
Thanks. I should stop putting so much in willpower, then. I'm just at level 11 in my game and have both Morrigan and Wynne have almost as much willpower as magic.
On November 21 2009 00:32 EchOne wrote: GTR, have you + Show Spoiler +
killed the mage leader of the Tevinter slavers? If you have, Tab the room where you killed him: his body or an unlocked chest should have "Slaver Documents." You need these documents to progress the storyline. If you haven't killed him, keep going through the Apartments and Alleyways till you reach the Warehouse. You can deal with him in other ways, but I killed him, so I don't know how to get the documents otherwise.
On demons and shapeshifting: there's already a mod that accomplishes this, but I think Ranger summons are a more balance-appropriate move. The shapeshifting mod I've seen makes shapeshifting instant and allows forms such as Ash Wraith and Pride Demon among others. However, Mages are already the best class, and even with these fixes, shapeshifting remains the worst spec... because AC/BM is still hands-down better. Giving Rogues a combat reason to be in your party is better for class balance IMO. Haven't tested the Ranger Summons yet so I've no clue if they're overpowered or not.
There has been some work dedicated to making High Dragon ala Flemeth a viable shapeshift, but since they fly/jump around rather than walk around there have been problems regarding their movement. I have the feeling that a party with 3 High Dragons would be somewhat on the broken side though.
Aren't the Ranger summons already good for Blood Mage fodder?
On November 20 2009 23:16 Shauni wrote: Dude I was level 16 when I did it. I had problems with other bossfights on hard before, but that spiderqueen was just ridiculous. Except for summoning her corrupted spiders every time she lost some hp, the range attack was crazy. One poison spit and a party member is down, and she does it on everyone until you get up close.
Yeah, no-mage hurts that fight a ton. Force Field, Paralysis, Cone of Cold, and Group Heal carried that fight.
On November 21 2009 01:22 Hyaach wrote: anyone in the noble tarven ? + Show Spoiler +
so im given this note to join the crows. anyone tried killing him? i have a level 10ish party and im getting absolutely raped every time i try. lol any tips?
Given that the quests he gives very quickly require access to areas you don't have access to until the end of the game, I'm pretty sure he's not supposed to be killable until you're around level 15-20.
On November 21 2009 02:18 andrewlt wrote: Aren't the Ranger summons already good for Blood Mage fodder?
They are. Ranger is the best Rogue tree by a LONG shot, and it's the last one you should be fixing. If I were to fix the Rogue, the first thing I can think of is move the thievery talents to skills. The big problem with Rogues is that they need to give up combat power if they want non-combat versatility.
While the player character can shapeshift into almost anything, Wynn and Morrigan can only shapeshift into certain types of monsters - their NPC custom model means that if they shapeshift into certain other types of monsters, then their model will be messed up and you will never get them back. Here is a list of the monsters that work 100% for morrigan and Wynn:
Dragon, Normal Bear, Great Bear, Black Broodmother Bronto Ambient, Goat Ambient, Mutt Spider, Corrupted Spider, Giant Spider, Poisonous Bear, Beareskan Spirit Apparatus Head Raven Chicken Owl
the other ones are pretty bugged.
As you can see, it's not remarkable at all. About the only cool shift that's compatible with the companions would be the dragon shapeshifting.
I'll experiment with this in the coming days, but I don't expect the high dragon shape, for example, to ever be compatible with the PC and companions Morrigan/Wynn.
Game too short and easy played it on "impossible" difficulty. ok the difficulty on impossible is somewhat decent, a few places you have to retry a couple of times with a better tactic but other than that it was a breeze, and if i pick impossible difficulty on playing a game i really expect it to be goddamn hard but it wasn't even close.
On November 21 2009 07:06 nttea wrote: Game too short and easy played it on "impossible" difficulty. ok the difficulty on impossible is somewhat decent, a few places you have to retry a couple of times with a better tactic but other than that it was a breeze, and if i pick impossible difficulty on playing a game i really expect it to be goddamn hard but it wasn't even close.
Isn't the game supposed to be like 100 hours if you do all the sidequests?
On November 21 2009 07:06 nttea wrote: Game too short and easy played it on "impossible" difficulty. ok the difficulty on impossible is somewhat decent, a few places you have to retry a couple of times with a better tactic but other than that it was a breeze, and if i pick impossible difficulty on playing a game i really expect it to be goddamn hard but it wasn't even close.
Isn't the game supposed to be like 100 hours if you do all the sidequests?
I believe their "100 hours" estimation is to complete 100% of the game. Which from what I can tell is getting 100% of the achievements. I beat the game doing virtually every quest and ended at about 40% with 46 hours played.
Edit: I should also mention that I noticed your % of game completed increased when you get achievements. I'm pretty sure that's what they base the % off of, but I could be wrong.
So apparently another DLC is out already. "Return to Ostagar".
Personally, I find this DLC situation a bit annoying, and kind of disappointing. This particular one looks like it adds zero new content:
King Cailan's Armor = assets already exist in the game. No new content there. Fighting Darkspawn = no new enemies. Ostagar = no new areas to explore. Sure it's covered in snow, but that doesn't do much. Dog = really? Most people aren't going to ditch the dog. "A second chance to add Dog to your party" is hardly a replacement for an actual party member.
This sounds like 45 minutes of play tops. If this is the kind of DLC that's going to come out, I'd much rather wait for mods.
On November 21 2009 08:12 Nebula wrote: I swear anyone that says nightmare was easy was playing a mage
Being a rogue on nightmare is a bitch :D
that could be right, i only played first hard on mage and switched to nightmare as soon as i realised it was way too easy, i did everything i could get my hands on and i saw i had completed 50% of the game witch made me happy, and then the game ended still on 50% completion. The reason obviously is that the % completion is based on the achievements like someone already stated T_T. i will try playing it with a rogue or warrior, should those be about equally hard? or is rogue hardest?
Nightmare is impossible.... or maybe I'm just bad or have shitty gear or something. My rogue is in Denerim now, and random encounters just roll me. Heading to one shady alleyway to fight bandits, and get ambushed by literally 20 bad guys. Wtf am I supposed to do against that!? T_T;;
A rogue basically must go for broke in traps and bombs in order to be effective on nightmare. Try a no-mage party on nightmare for a challenge. Or try one of the difficulty enhancing mods to enjoy massive enemy spell resistance, higher cooldown or utter removal of potions, permanent until camping injuries, or other such goodies.
The new DLC sounds dumb. Mods for King Cailan's Armor were available a week ago.
This game would be about 100x easier if I had a steady supply of potions. I have TONS of gold but no where to spend it. Am I the only one having this trouble? I use all my elf root to make lesser potions, and no one in Lothering or Redcliffe sells pots OR elf root once you buy whatever they have available. I've done a bunch of quests and neither vendor has restocked yet...
EDIT: Also, since I haven't read all 20 pages I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but apparently there's a bug with rogues not getting damage bonuses from dex when using daggers. My main char is a dual-wielding rogue and deals shit damage compared to my team. My only saving grace is traps so far.
On November 22 2009 06:42 nortorius wrote: This game would be about 100x easier if I had a steady supply of potions. I have TONS of gold but no where to spend it. Am I the only one having this trouble? I use all my elf root to make lesser potions, and no one in Lothering or Redcliffe sells pots OR elf root once you buy whatever they have available. I've done a bunch of quests and neither vendor has restocked yet...
EDIT: Also, since I haven't read all 20 pages I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but apparently there's a bug with rogues not getting damage bonuses from dex when using daggers. My main char is a dual-wielding rogue and deals shit damage compared to my team. My only saving grace is traps so far.
There are a few merchants that have infinite amounts of elfroot and basic potion ingredients you have to find and remember which ones stock infinite amounts, I think elfroot and toxin extracts are infinite from a merchant in the Brecaille Forest (Dalish Elves place), infinite lyrium dust from the Quartermaster at the Tower, theres heaps of infinite flask and the mixing ingredients.
And yes there is a bug with daggers not getting damage bonuses from dexterity and also they buffed bows and ranged weapons, but this buff also applies to enemies on hard and impossible difficulty, it's made by a bioware dev but its an unofficial hotfix that they are going to implement into an official patch later on. Not sure where it is but one my friends linked me to it, its on the bioware social thingy.
How good is Vessel of the Spirit? I'm not sure which stuff is active all the time and which only works during activation. I'm sure getting hp and mana back is just on activation. I don't know about the rest and what the drawbacks are for letting that thing just be on all the time other than the sustained cost.
I'm not a fan of Bioware's DLC either. It seems like they're charging too much compared to how much content they're adding.
vessel of spirit probably makes wynn the best mage. That thing fully heals her hp and mp, Knocks back everything around her, gives her higher regeneration rate, and boosts her spell power by something like 50. It doesnt even drain mp to sustain. You cant have it on all the time cus it turns off after battle, but i think its best use is for getting all ur mp back so its all good.
On November 22 2009 06:52 ToyotaDemon wrote: And yes there is a bug with daggers not getting damage bonuses from dexterity and also they buffed bows and ranged weapons, but this buff also applies to enemies on hard and impossible difficulty, it's made by a bioware dev but its an unofficial hotfix that they are going to implement into an official patch later on. Not sure where it is but one my friends linked me to it, its on the bioware social thingy.
I linked it 2-3 pages ago I think.
On November 22 2009 11:36 gameguard wrote: vessel of spirit probably makes wynn the best mage. That thing fully heals her hp and mp, Knocks back everything around her, gives her higher regeneration rate, and boosts her spell power by something like 50. It doesnt even drain mp to sustain. You cant have it on all the time cus it turns off after battle, but i think its best use is for getting all ur mp back so its all good.
This. The estimate of the spellpower boost is inflated (it's based on your base spellpower, and you'd have to have not pumped any other stat or have gotten both Spell Wisp and Spell Might for it to be that high), but essentially this is correct. I only have 3 things to add:
1) The full HP/MP heal basically means you never want to turn this on unless you're totally drained. Particularly if Wynne is a Blood Mage, the amount of longevity this gives you far outclasses the consistent bonuses of having it always on. You'd much rather have the spell save you the one time you really need it than give you a bunch of minor boosts in battles that don't matter.
2) If Wynne dies, and Vessel of the Spirit is not on cooldown, she will auto-resurrect with the buff activated (but with no HP/MP restore and no Mind Blast effect). Obviously, the lack of HP/MP restore means you'd much rather activate it just BEFORE she dies, than have it go off afterwards. Nevertheless, this has saved me a couple of times.
3) On whether Wynne is the best mage with Vessel of the Spirit: it's questionable whether she's better than the main character, given that the main character doesn't start with 7 levels of spells pre-picked (admittedly, most of those are solid choices, but she would be much stronger if she didn't start with 4 spells devoted to the Rock and Heroic trees) and can go Blood Mage/Arcane Warrior. She's certainly better than Morrigan, but that's almost a given with how much worse Shapeshifter is as a spec than everything else.
if you get cone of cold for wynne and morrigan you can easily beat any monster by just spamming that spell and using group heal. I did play one game on nightmare and it wasn't that hard, used myself(warrior) with 1h/shield to tank, one rogue for single target dps, morrigan for aoe and wynne for healing. When you finished the game once and know which stats and talents to get it is really easy on any difficulty. Only opponents that i still had problems with on nightmare were flemeth and gaxkang
On November 22 2009 06:52 ToyotaDemon wrote: And yes there is a bug with daggers not getting damage bonuses from dexterity and also they buffed bows and ranged weapons, but this buff also applies to enemies on hard and impossible difficulty, it's made by a bioware dev but its an unofficial hotfix that they are going to implement into an official patch later on. Not sure where it is but one my friends linked me to it, its on the bioware social thingy.
On November 22 2009 11:36 gameguard wrote: vessel of spirit probably makes wynn the best mage. That thing fully heals her hp and mp, Knocks back everything around her, gives her higher regeneration rate, and boosts her spell power by something like 50. It doesnt even drain mp to sustain. You cant have it on all the time cus it turns off after battle, but i think its best use is for getting all ur mp back so its all good.
This. The estimate of the spellpower boost is inflated (it's based on your base spellpower, and you'd have to have not pumped any other stat or have gotten both Spell Wisp and Spell Might for it to be that high), but essentially this is correct. I only have 3 things to add:
1) The full HP/MP heal basically means you never want to turn this on unless you're totally drained. Particularly if Wynne is a Blood Mage, the amount of longevity this gives you far outclasses the consistent bonuses of having it always on. You'd much rather have the spell save you the one time you really need it than give you a bunch of minor boosts in battles that don't matter.
2) If Wynne dies, and Vessel of the Spirit is not on cooldown, she will auto-resurrect with the buff activated (but with no HP/MP restore and no Mind Blast effect). Obviously, the lack of HP/MP restore means you'd much rather activate it just BEFORE she dies, than have it go off afterwards. Nevertheless, this has saved me a couple of times.
3) On whether Wynne is the best mage with Vessel of the Spirit: it's questionable whether she's better than the main character, given that the main character doesn't start with 7 levels of spells pre-picked (admittedly, most of those are solid choices, but she would be much stronger if she didn't start with 4 spells devoted to the Rock and Heroic trees) and can go Blood Mage/Arcane Warrior. She's certainly better than Morrigan, but that's almost a given with how much worse Shapeshifter is as a spec than everything else.
1. He's not that far off, actually. My Wynne with 38 magic and spell wisp has 39 spellpower. Vessel pushes it to 83.
2. Question about the activation. Do you know how long the mana regen lasts and how much is it for when she activates it initially?
On November 22 2009 12:48 InFiNitY[pG] wrote: if you get cone of cold for wynne and morrigan you can easily beat any monster by just spamming that spell and using group heal. I did play one game on nightmare and it wasn't that hard, used myself(warrior) with 1h/shield to tank, one rogue for single target dps, morrigan for aoe and wynne for healing. When you finished the game once and know which stats and talents to get it is really easy on any difficulty. Only opponents that i still had problems with on nightmare were flemeth and gaxkang
o_O I havent met gaxkang yet, but I appriciate the funny BG2 reference to kanggax.
Anyone have any analysis regarding Warrior and/or Rogue characters? I'm still on my first playthrough on Hard, but have to admit that I pretty much went in blind. I don't think I made any really horrible decisions regarding character builds, but I'd like to hear input from people regarding non-Mage characters. TheYango's post on Mages was great, so something like that (doesn't have to be as comprehensive) would be very helpful.
I'm lvl 9 or 10 right now and hit for 3X-4X on normal hits, with 2 Skills that force Crits ("heavy swing" and "critical hit" I do 140+ dmg together on a target of my choice, followed up with sunder arms for another 30-40 and another normal hit. Really hurts most enemies and allows to kill these nasty yellow mobs pretty fast. This also means that a 2Handed Warrior can Shatter two frozen Mobs on it's own which makes *normal* enemy groupes pretty helpless as soon as you have a mage with cone of cold and stonefist, it's just like -3 enemies the second the fight starts. The damage seems good as soon as you get your first strong Weapon (got the one from the Mage-Tower riddle/quest with the statues on the third-floor/basement-door). I lack other good other Gear at the moment. Before that it's a little meh as soon as you haven't the Stamina to really use your skills on cooldown.
Most important thing is probably to not ignore Willpower, you really need a pretty a decent amount of stamina to have 1-2 "modes" avtive (heavy swings and the one that makes you immune to knockdown if needed) and still be able to use your important damagedealing and knockdown abilities. The passive Stun is also neat if it actually happens. I mostly went for 2 Str, 1 dex or willpower on level ups.
I don't know about dual wilding but so far 2-Hand seems fine.
Choosing which extra class is the actually hard part...
Berserker seems to be the best but does not really shine. Reaver seems to be "THE" Tank-Spec. Templar is well, Templar. Neat against Casters but you allready have Alistair for that? Champion? Is neat but also not really what you are looking for as offensive Warrior.
I probably will go Reaver/Berserker or Champion/Berserker.
Here's my opinion on the rogue based on a playthrough on hard with Redcliffe, Mage Circle, some of Brecillian(sp) Forest, and first two DLC areas complete. Currently level 14. I've also "cheated" a bit, and used the console to test out various skills (before reloading my game).
I'm running a hybrid Archer/Duel Wielder. Specs are Ranger and Assassin. Glass cannon style with most points in Dex/Cun.
DISCLAIMER I am NOT using the Dexterity fix mod, though I would imagine that would change some things, like my opinion of archery.
First off, archery is pretty mediocre(see above for disclaimer).Bad damage, bad attack rate, mediocre skills except one or two. When I said hybrid above, basically that means Arrow of Slaying tree only. 0 points in the rest. Arrow of Slaying is pretty awesome for opening up a fight to gank spellcasters. Hits for upwards of 200 damage potentially if they don't pass the phys check, which most spellcaster type enemies won't. Pinning shot(same line) has it's uses as well, though it's pretty unreliable. Master archer doesn't seem to have much of an effect on AoS damage when I tested it, and thus is not worth 4 points at all. All the sustained abilities are pretty worthless imo. Scattershot looks good on paper until you realize the stun length is like... 2 seconds. Much better to rely on a mage for crowd control. Basically, don't go archery without the Dex fix (not sure how good it is even with the dex fix though). You're damage output just isn't good enough. I like AoS though, but you can certainly save those 4 points for something else if you like. I did NOT get Stealth/lockpicking trees on my main character, so I saved a lot of points there. You might not have the points to pick up any archery skills anyway, if you pick up Assassin/Ranger/other Rogue/DW skills.
Now, duel wielding, backstabbing goodness, is where the rogue's true strength lies. Rogues have very good single target DPS.
DW Training -> DW Mastery. Get these all. Increased attack, defense, crit rate, damage, etc. The ability to wield 2 full-sized weapons is kinda hit or miss though, since I find that dagger off-hand (better bonuses usually) is the superior choice. Reduced stamina costs don't hurt though.
Dual Striking -> Punisher Now here is where my opinion might differ from other people's a bit. I feel that you don't need ANY of these 4 skills. Here's my reasoning: I do as much or more single-target DPS with Momentum + regular backstabs, than I would if I "wasted" time using those above skills. Honestly, Punisher is the only one that's useful, and more for the knockdown than the damage, and is not worth the four points.
DW Sweep -> Whirlwind You NEED momentum. It is GODLY. Your attack rate is so much faster. Faster than haste, or any item. As a disclaimer though, haste does not appear to stack with momentum, and actually overrides it I believe. This is not an issue if your party is say, Rogue, Warrior Tank, Mage, Mage, but might be a problem if you have more warriors. (If you have more rogues, they need momentum too). That being said, Flurry isn't particularly good, DW Sweep CAN be good if you have like 3 or 4 enemies lined up. Whirlwind is pretty shitty though, I don't even bother getting it. Damage is much lower than DW Sweep, and you need to be surrounded by enemies to get good mileage out of it, NOT a situation you want to be in as a rogue anyway.
General rogue group has a lot of useful skills as well. Stealth is not useful in my opinion. Since the rest of you're unstealthed party will trigger enemies anyway, you have to leave them behind to run up and get a backstab (something you could do anyway, without risking horrible mauling). I just don't feel there is any use to it. Lockpicking is up to you of course. I just use Lilianna and run through cleared areas if I really want to get everything. I wonder if it's possible to just have 1 point and tons of cunning to open high level chests though. I don't find any of the activated abilities here particularly useful either, except for feign death as a save your ass from aggro skill. If you have a good tank + party though, it shouldn't be necessary. Lethality and Evasion are good. Combat Movement is up in the air. Theoretically, you could just position yourself better, and that would render it useless. For ease of backstabbing though, it's useful. Coup de Grace is kinda useless imo. You should be backstabbing no matter what, stunned enemies or not, so kinda pointless.
As far as specializations go, I don't have experience with Duelist, but here's my opinion on the rest.
Assassin - Mark of Death is useful against bosses/elites. All the passives are pretty good, and they're passives, so spend and forget.
Ranger - Mastered Bear is pretty good. Has ridiculous life. It doesn't really draw attention well though, so not a replacement for a tank. I like just sending it at the strongest enemy to keep it off my parties back. I've heard good things about using the summons for Blood Mage fodder as well, though I don't have experience with that I'm afraid.
Bard - Not that useful imo, though I haven't used it much. Song of Valor seems to barely affect stamina regen with like 20ish cunning at the time. Song of Courage is decent, though not worth sacrificing a spec for. Captivating song is pretty good minus the part where you're stuck unable to do anything. Pass.
Equipment - Main hand weapon should be as much damage as possible. Off-hand weapon should be bonuses first priority, + armor penetration, +damage, +attack +backstab damage, etc. Light armor is best. Look for +damage, +backstab, +dex, +str, +cun, +def. Armor rating is secondary. The few items with % to dodge attacks is good, since I assume it stacks with the Evade skill, and +def is superior to +armor imo. Better to evade an attack all together, since you will never have particularly good armor rating.
I am curious as to what hidden advantages there are for changing the difficulty. Obviously, if you are seriously stuck putting it down to Casual is a way to save face. But, when you Increase the difficulty, does anything special happen?
Do you go through on harder difficulty just for fun when you beat it? Does better loot drop? Any hidden advantages to upping the difficulty other than having more challenge?
rogues with dual wield do some "terrible terrible damage" after lvl 15-16. up to that point my main char (rogue) only did 25-ish % of total party damage, from then on to the end of the game he got to like 40%, and i havent changed the party composition at all.
On November 25 2009 02:42 WiljushkA wrote: rogues with dual wield do some "terrible terrible damage" after lvl 15-16. up to that point my main char (rogue) only did 25-ish % of total party damage, from then on to the end of the game he got to like 40%, and i havent changed the party composition at all.
My first playthrough on Hard was with a rogue (duelist/assassin). The damage is good if you use many effects (poisons, enchantments, magic buffs, etc) because these effects can add up very quickly. Easily adding a 20-30% increase in damage. However, its still no where comparable to a mages damage.
Im doing the nightmare playthrough now with a full ranged party (archers) and its working alright. Takes a TON of pausing and kiting with pindowns and stuff though. Each of my characters die in like 4hits from a mob, but chaining scattershots is pretty interesting AoE stunning everything for like 10seconds.
On November 25 2009 02:12 Pufftrees wrote: I am pretty new to the game, around level 14.
I am curious as to what hidden advantages there are for changing the difficulty. Obviously, if you are seriously stuck putting it down to Casual is a way to save face. But, when you Increase the difficulty, does anything special happen?
Do you go through on harder difficulty just for fun when you beat it? Does better loot drop? Any hidden advantages to upping the difficulty other than having more challenge?
Just for the fun and challenge. To my knowledge, there are no better loot drops at least. I don't know if the ending changes at all, but I doubt it.
On November 25 2009 02:42 WiljushkA wrote: rogues with dual wield do some "terrible terrible damage" after lvl 15-16. up to that point my main char (rogue) only did 25-ish % of total party damage, from then on to the end of the game he got to like 40%, and i havent changed the party composition at all.
My first playthrough on Hard was with a rogue (duelist/assassin). The damage is good if you use many effects (poisons, enchantments, magic buffs, etc) because these effects can add up very quickly. Easily adding a 20-30% increase in damage. However, its still no where comparable to a mages damage.
Im doing the nightmare playthrough now with a full ranged party (archers) and its working alright. Takes a TON of pausing and kiting with pindowns and stuff though. Each of my characters die in like 4hits from a mob, but chaining scattershots is pretty interesting AoE stunning everything for like 10seconds.
Out of curiosity, who are you using as the 4th "archer"? Shale? And are you using the dex fix?
Ohhh wow, I just found an awesome bow. The stats are nothing incredible, but one of the mods it has is "quick aim". I'm kinda bummed now! I specced my rogue to be a DW rogue, and not an archer. Now all of a sudden I shoot about twice as fast and am wishing I'd allocated more points into archery talents!
I actually do enough damage to kill mobs before they get to me with *just* my bow. I killed the arcane horror in the werewolf den by having the rest of my party hide in the next room and simply challenging him to a shoot out. We both stood still, me shooting arrows and him shooting spells. And I killed him in mebbe 30 seconds. Only had to have Wynne heal me once, LOL. Crazy powerful. I shoot really fast and deal a solid 40+ damage each shot. And this is on nightmare! Poor arcane fellow didn't stand a chance, lol. How silly it was of me the first time around to rush my whole party in there and try to hack him to death!
On November 25 2009 13:42 Haemonculus wrote: Ohhh wow, I just found an awesome bow. The stats are nothing incredible, but one of the mods it has is "quick aim". I'm kinda bummed now! I specced my rogue to be a DW rogue, and not an archer. Now all of a sudden I shoot about twice as fast and am wishing I'd allocated more points into archery talents!
I actually do enough damage to kill mobs before they get to me with *just* my bow. I killed the arcane horror in the werewolf den by having the rest of my party hide in the next room and simply challenging him to a shoot out. We both stood still, me shooting arrows and him shooting spells. And I killed him in mebbe 30 seconds. Only had to have Wynne heal me once, LOL. Crazy powerful. I shoot really fast and deal a solid 40+ damage each shot. And this is on nightmare! Poor arcane fellow didn't stand a chance, lol. How silly it was of me the first time around to rush my whole party in there and try to hack him to death!
You have had a much different experience than me with archery lol. I've tested archery with a rapid aim bow, and honestly, I didn't think it was THAT much faster. Hmmm.
Even so, DW rogue would be hitting that much damage at like 2-3 times the rate anyway in my experience. Of course you have to be up close and personal, which is a bit more dangerous, but also more fun imo. And obligatory question. Dex fix or no?
I might have to try out archery again, now that I'm a higher level, and see if there's an improvement.
On November 25 2009 13:42 Haemonculus wrote: Ohhh wow, I just found an awesome bow. The stats are nothing incredible, but one of the mods it has is "quick aim". I'm kinda bummed now! I specced my rogue to be a DW rogue, and not an archer. Now all of a sudden I shoot about twice as fast and am wishing I'd allocated more points into archery talents!
I actually do enough damage to kill mobs before they get to me with *just* my bow. I killed the arcane horror in the werewolf den by having the rest of my party hide in the next room and simply challenging him to a shoot out. We both stood still, me shooting arrows and him shooting spells. And I killed him in mebbe 30 seconds. Only had to have Wynne heal me once, LOL. Crazy powerful. I shoot really fast and deal a solid 40+ damage each shot. And this is on nightmare! Poor arcane fellow didn't stand a chance, lol. How silly it was of me the first time around to rush my whole party in there and try to hack him to death!
You have had a much different experience than me with archery lol. I've tested archery with a rapid aim bow, and honestly, I didn't think it was THAT much faster. Hmmm.
Even so, DW rogue would be hitting that much damage at like 2-3 times the rate anyway in my experience. Of course you have to be up close and personal, which is a bit more dangerous, but also more fun imo. And obligatory question. Dex fix or no?
I might have to try out archery again, now that I'm a higher level, and see if there's an improvement.
Hehe, yes dex fix. My rogue is usually the up-close and personal kind, hacking away with a sword and dagger. But certain battles or pulls call for a good bow, and now that I can do damage well, I find myself sticking back a lot more. Yes, once Alistair has aggro and I can just sit behind someone and backstab them to pieces, I do more DPS that way. But on dragons and the like or when there is a lot of enemy AoE going off, I'll sometimes switch to my bow and pick off whoever is throwing fireballs of doom at us.
Also, bows are awesome for pulling! Stealth, sneak forward, find an unexpecting enemy, shoot them, they asplode in like 2-3 hits, and run back to your team. Nice to start almost all battles off with one less enemy.
anyone heard of storm of the century? apparently its blizzard + spellmighted tempest. huge aoe and huge overkill. never use it tho.
anyone wanna give some strategic insight on how to handle revenants? i went back, am level 14 now and still get my ass handed to me. My playthrough involves picking potion and using whatever i find though so i think that may be the reason why i cant abuse myself enough.lol
The last Revenant i met was not a big Problem (the one in the Magetower)... Until Alistair lost agro and Mr. Revenant hunted Morrigan and things got messy .
Revenants are kinda weak to physical attacks. I think theire ugly for Mage-Heavy parties, at least i felt that way on my first Char. The last one was no problem (2H-Warrior mainchar).
So: Let your Tank build up Agro and do nothing with everyone else except Healing if needed. Just attack him when you think your Tank got enough Agro. Profit
After watching those youtube videos, I'm amazed at how good the characters are written and voiced, and how varied the interactions are, but by how absolutely atrocious, boring, glitchy and repetitive the combat was implemented.
I might be tempted to play the game a second time with god mode to listen to every possible character interaction and try out every dialogue decision.
On November 27 2009 18:29 Hyaach wrote: anyone heard of storm of the century? apparently its blizzard + spellmighted tempest. huge aoe and huge overkill. never use it tho.
anyone wanna give some strategic insight on how to handle revenants? i went back, am level 14 now and still get my ass handed to me. My playthrough involves picking potion and using whatever i find though so i think that may be the reason why i cant abuse myself enough.lol
Storm of the Century is not worth the effort/mana/time 99% of the time. It's overkill on normal encounters, and not worth the expenditure against bosses in my opinion.
As for your Revenant question, it depends on your party setup. Ideally, you should at least have 1 tank/char for drawing aggro (Threatening Stance, Taunt, Massive Armor), and one mage with Force Field. Open the fight with a Taunt from your tank. Keep all your non-melees away from the Revenant a bit, and keep your melees if you have more than one on opposite sides of the Revenant to avoid his sweep attack. Attack and heal normally, until you get the timer up for your second taunt. Taunt and cast Force Field on the tank. Assuming none of your other characters are doing insane DPS (high armor penetration, DW rogue comes to mind), you shouldn't draw any aggro, until your Force Field drops or nearly drops. When it drops, Taunt again, and Force Field as soon as the cooldown is up. Doing this, your tank should be taking damage like 10% of the time of the engagement, and you shouldn't need to heal or do much of anything else. Use stun/freeze attacks (Cone of Cold, Dirty Fighting, Scattershot, Paralyze, Mind Blast, etc.) to stun the Revenant when it tries to use Mass Pull. Though, it's not really that dangerous of an attack, so you can just reposition afterwards.
This is the kinda cheap ass way to do it though =p.
On November 28 2009 00:30 Conquest101 wrote: Storm of the Century is not worth the effort/mana/time 99% of the time. It's overkill on normal encounters, and not worth the expenditure against bosses in my opinion.
While this is true for most of the game, Storm of the Century is invaluable as you approach the endgame, due to the fact that difficult encounters start to revolve more around large bands of enemies, and not about singular opponents (which makes sense--you're fighting nobles and their posse, not a big ass monster). It's invaluable against Cauthrian for example.
The thing is, it's almost no investment at all to GET Storm of the Century. You will always have a mage with Cone of Cold and Mana Clash, making it effortless to get Blizzard and Spell Might. The only spell that you might have to stretch for is Tempest, and Morrigan already starts with Shock.
On November 28 2009 00:30 Conquest101 wrote: This is the kinda cheap ass way to do it though =p.
Agreed, though by level 14, you should have no real trouble beating them the non-cheesy way. Shale and Alistair should both be able to tank it, and Wynne's healing power should be able to keep up, particularly if you use Vessel of the Spirit. The real trick is to always keep your non-tank characters out of range of the Revenant, because he has that nasty attack that sweeps everyone in melee range, and it's a drain on healers' mana to have to heal a rogue who's taking absurd amounts of damage just hanging around next to the Revenant because he has no armor.
I think i need to respec my alistar then. I actually didnt get any talent from warrior spec, his all shield and sword and truthfully, its not doing great for tanking. not to mention i have a useless pc aw/bm which i don't get how the imba-ness is suppose to work
Meh on 2nd thought i may even have to respec morrigan too for a heal spell. lol
On November 25 2009 01:21 Conquest101 wrote: Here's my opinion on the rogue based on a playthrough on hard with Redcliffe, Mage Circle, some of Brecillian(sp) Forest, and first two DLC areas complete. Currently level 14. I've also "cheated" a bit, and used the console to test out various skills (before reloading my game).
I'm running a hybrid Archer/Duel Wielder. Specs are Ranger and Assassin. Glass cannon style with most points in Str/Dex, some in Cunning. I am NOT using the Dexterity fix mod, though I would imagine that would change some things, like my opinion of archery.
First off, archery is pretty mediocre(see above for disclaimer).Bad damage, bad attack rate, mediocre skills except one or two. When I said hybrid above, basically that means Arrow of Slaying tree only. 0 points in the rest. Arrow of Slaying is pretty awesome for opening up a fight to gank spellcasters. Hits for upwards of 200 damage potentially if they don't pass the phys check, which most spellcaster type enemies won't. Pinning shot(same line) has it's uses as well, though it's pretty unreliable. Master archer doesn't seem to have much of an effect on AoS damage when I tested it, and thus is not worth 4 points at all. All the sustained abilities are pretty worthless imo. Scattershot looks good on paper until you realize the stun length is like... 2 seconds. Much better to rely on a mage for crowd control. Basically, don't go archery without the Dex fix (not sure how good it is even with the dex fix though). You're damage output just isn't good enough. I like AoS though, but you can certainly save those 4 points for something else if you like. I did NOT get Stealth/lockpicking trees on my main character, so I saved a lot of points there. You might not have the points to pick up any archery skills anyway, if you pick up Assassin/Ranger/other Rogue/DW skills.
Now, duel wielding, backstabbing goodness, is where the rogue's true strength lies. Rogues have very good single target DPS.
DW Training -> DW Mastery. Get these all. Increased attack, defense, crit rate, damage, etc. The ability to wield 2 full-sized weapons is kinda hit or miss though, since I find that dagger off-hand (better bonuses usually) is the superior choice. Reduced stamina costs don't hurt though.
Dual Striking -> Punisher Now here is where my opinion might differ from other people's a bit. I feel that you don't need ANY of these 4 skills. Here's my reasoning: I do as much or more single-target DPS with Momentum + regular backstabs, than I would if I "wasted" time using those above skills. Honestly, Punisher is the only one that's useful, and more for the knockdown than the damage, and is not worth the four points.
DW Sweep -> Whirlwind You NEED momentum. It is GODLY. Your attack rate is so much faster. Faster than haste, or any item. As a disclaimer though, haste does not appear to stack with momentum, and actually overrides it I believe. This is not an issue if your party is say, Rogue, Warrior Tank, Mage, Mage, but might be a problem if you have more warriors. (If you have more rogues, they need momentum too). That being said, Flurry isn't particularly good, DW Sweep CAN be good if you have like 3 or 4 enemies lined up. Whirlwind is pretty shitty though, I don't even bother getting it. Damage is much lower than DW Sweep, and you need to be surrounded by enemies to get good mileage out of it, NOT a situation you want to be in as a rogue anyway.
General rogue group has a lot of useful skills as well. Stealth is not useful in my opinion. Since the rest of you're unstealthed party will trigger enemies anyway, you have to leave them behind to run up and get a backstab (something you could do anyway, without risking horrible mauling). I just don't feel there is any use to it. Lockpicking is up to you of course. I just use Lilianna and run through cleared areas if I really want to get everything. I wonder if it's possible to just have 1 point and tons of cunning to open high level chests though. I don't find any of the activated abilities here particularly useful either, except for feign death as a save your ass from aggro skill. If you have a good tank + party though, it shouldn't be necessary. Lethality and Evasion are good. Combat Movement is up in the air. Theoretically, you could just position yourself better, and that would render it useless. For ease of backstabbing though, it's useful. Coup de Grace is kinda useless imo. You should be backstabbing no matter what, stunned enemies or not, so kinda pointless.
As far as specializations go, I don't have experience with Duelist, but here's my opinion on the rest.
Assassin - Mark of Death is useful against bosses/elites. All the passives are pretty good, and they're passives, so spend and forget.
Ranger - Mastered Bear is pretty good. Has ridiculous life. It doesn't really draw attention well though, so not a replacement for a tank. I like just sending it at the strongest enemy to keep it off my parties back. I've heard good things about using the summons for Blood Mage fodder as well, though I don't have experience with that I'm afraid.
Bard - Not that useful imo, though I haven't used it much. Song of Valor seems to barely affect stamina regen with like 20ish cunning at the time. Song of Courage is decent, though not worth sacrificing a spec for. Captivating song is pretty good minus the part where you're stuck unable to do anything. Pass.
Equipment - Main hand weapon should be as much damage as possible. Off-hand weapon should be bonuses first priority, + armor penetration, +damage, +attack +backstab damage, etc. Light armor is best. Look for +damage, +backstab, +dex, +str, +cun, +def. Armor rating is secondary. The few items with % to dodge attacks is good, since I assume it stacks with the Evade skill, and +def is superior to +armor imo. Better to evade an attack all together, since you will never have particularly good armor rating.
And that's my opinion on most of the Rogue stuff.
/wall of text
Hope that was helpful to someone.
This post is helping a ton, thanks.
I'm having trouble backstabbing somethings though, I never know if I'm actually doing it right, is there any kind of indication that you are getting a backstab? And is there any easy way to get back stabs when the enemy is focused on you, or should I just be running around the whole fight looking for people to backstab?
Also, once I have l lethality, can I stop putting points into strength all together?
Backstabs show up on screen like criticals. Assuming you have the damage numbers turned on in your settings, it'll show up as a bigger than usual number, just like a critical hit. The attack animation uses your main hand only (I'm not 100% sure if it only uses your main hand damage as well, but pretty sure, bonuses from offhand are definitely applied though). It's a stabbing animation instead of a slashing one. Pretty easy to tell if you are Duel Wielding.
It is sort of possible to BS an opponent that is aggro'd to you, but since you can't strafe in this game, it's quite difficult. Basically move during enemies attack animation. With a good tank, it shouldn't be an issue too much though.
Yes, after lethality, strength becomes fairly useless, especially since dagger/dagger is the best DPS supposedly with a cunning build. Dex/Cunning being you're primary stats. I'd shoot for 20 STR to be able to equip the highest tier light armor. +stats DOES work for equipment as well, so like if you have the +1 all stats ring on for example or other stat jewelry/belts, you could get away with less. Assuming you want to min-max to that degree of course.
On November 29 2009 01:01 sixghost wrote: I'm having trouble backstabbing somethings though, I never know if I'm actually doing it right, is there any kind of indication that you are getting a backstab? And is there any easy way to get back stabs when the enemy is focused on you, or should I just be running around the whole fight looking for people to backstab?
You shouldn't have enemies focused on you, period. Your tank should be capable of maintaining aggro, and be able to taunt off anyone attacking you. If you're generating too much threat off your damage, look for equipment that reduces hostility to you.
On November 29 2009 01:22 Conquest101 wrote: Yes, after lethality, strength becomes fairly useless, especially since dagger/dagger is the best DPS supposedly with a cunning build. Dex/Cunning being you're primary stats. I'd shoot for 20 STR to be able to equip the highest tier light armor. +stats DOES work for equipment as well, so like if you have the +1 all stats ring on for example or other stat jewelry/belts, you could get away with less. Assuming you want to min-max to that degree of course.
Keep in mind that you also get 3-4 points of Strength from the Mage's Circle.
On November 29 2009 01:22 Conquest101 wrote: Backstabs show up on screen like criticals. Assuming you have the damage numbers turned on in your settings, it'll show up as a bigger than usual number, just like a critical hit. The attack animation uses your main hand only (I'm not 100% sure if it only uses your main hand damage as well, but pretty sure, bonuses from offhand are definitely applied though). It's a stabbing animation instead of a slashing one. Pretty easy to tell if you are Duel Wielding.
It is sort of possible to BS an opponent that is aggro'd to you, but since you can't strafe in this game, it's quite difficult. Basically move during enemies attack animation. With a good tank, it shouldn't be an issue too much though.
Yes, after lethality, strength becomes fairly useless, especially since dagger/dagger is the best DPS supposedly with a cunning build. Dex/Cunning being you're primary stats. I'd shoot for 20 STR to be able to equip the highest tier light armor. +stats DOES work for equipment as well, so like if you have the +1 all stats ring on for example or other stat jewelry/belts, you could get away with less. Assuming you want to min-max to that degree of course.
Yeah I read the thing about the bigger numbers in the manual, I've been looking for it, but they dont seem that much bigger than any other attacks. My character is definitely doing a stabbing motion though.
Anyway, it's not that big of a problem with the agro, it just seems like 1 guy always likes to chase me the entire fight, but it's been less of a hassle since I bought alistair armor thats way better then anyone elses, which I thought I read attracts the enemies.
Also, what should I be getting as my skills? I maxed out combat training, and I've got 1 in stealing/poison/traps, so I can at least do the bare minimum in those, but none of the rest seem very useful, I guess coercion could be useful. And can I do anything with my specialization point yet? I'm only at level 8, it seems weird that they would give it to me before I could spend it, do you have to unlock the specialization through the story somewhere?
On November 29 2009 03:04 sixghost wrote: Also, what should I be getting as my skills? I maxed out combat training, and I've got 1 in stealing/poison/traps, so I can at least do the bare minimum in those, but none of the rest seem very useful, I guess coercion could be useful. And can I do anything with my specialization point yet? I'm only at level 8, it seems weird that they would give it to me before I could spend it, do you have to unlock the specialization through the story somewhere?
Coercion is useful because in Bioware RPGs, persuasion outright restricts certain plot points. If you have high cunning, you could get by without it, but I always max it out first.
The other skill to get one-of is Survival, because of the value you get out of it. Nature resistance boost, and knowning enemy positions 90% of the time all for the cost of 1 skill rank? Sign me up.
Specializations are unlocked at various points throughout the game. Without spoiling too much, 2 of them are unlocked from your companions, one is bought at a certain store, and another comes from meeting a certain NPC.
On November 29 2009 03:41 andrewlt wrote: How viable is an Arcane Warrior for maintaining threat, especially at higher difficulties?
It maintains threat just fine. The real question is if you can take the damage when 1) you need your hitpoints as fuel for your spells, 2) your defense (not your armor) is low, and 3) you have no shield defense talents.
^ Ditto, a AW/SH will be maintaining threat fine and tank quite well but I have not figure out how does a aw/bm rape through everything like people on the social boards are claiming
On November 29 2009 12:58 Hyaach wrote: ^ Ditto, a AW/SH will be maintaining threat fine and tank quite well but I have not figure out how does a aw/bm rape through everything like people on the social boards are claiming
Blood Mage owns because it never runs out of mana. You can power nonstop spells out of your health, casting rejuvenate just as you burn out your mana. Just as your health drops into the red zone, you deactivate Blood Magic and spam Heal on yourself. As soon as you are out of mana, you activate Blood Magic and repeat. This allows you to power an infinite string of Cone of Colds, Fireballs, or whatever the hell other spell you feel like spamming. Compared to a non-Blood Mage, your mana longevity is much longer.
Arcane Warrior adds to that simply by letting you cut your health even closer. A normal Blood Mage, without heavy/massive armor, has to leave quite a bit of health on reserve, since he has to be able to survive a random crit from an archer, a tail swipe from a dragon, or a Mass Pull + Double Strike from a Revenant. With massive armor, however, a Blood Mage can afford to cut far deeper into his health, as many attacks will do drastically reduced damage, and since Wade's Dragonscale Armor gives such a drastic fatigue reduction, it doesn't even add heavily to his spell costs. As an added bonus, getting aggro from masses of enemies allows you to chain Mind Blast->Cone of Cold->Mass Paralysis->Mass AOE damage, which wipes out huge crowds quite easily (not that it wasn't easy already).
On November 30 2009 07:44 Teejing wrote: Hey, i have problem vs a revenant and hi skellis in red cliff.... are there certai spells/weapons better more effective than others vs skellis?
Skeletons are immune to poison, and semi-immune to cold (they take no damage, but can still be frozen). Try to avoid using those types.
A note on the revenant: since this one is yellow-named (unlike the orange-named ones elsewhere in the game), it is vulnerable to Crushing Prison. This actually makes it extremely easy to deal with, as Crushing Prison + a few of your spammable damage spells should take it down quickly.
also i you go in with your rogue you can unlock the redcliff castle gates and let in the infantry. They are very good at being meatshields allowing your characters too stay up throughout the fight to burn down the revenant.
On December 01 2009 02:05 Hyaach wrote: ye ^ anyone of your party member can unlock the gates actually.I move all my guys to the gate, open it and lured the enemies closer to their death
yea i just did it with me rogue because o ze stealthy stealth
Can someone explain exactly how the experience works for inactive members of your party? Sometimes it seems like they are leveling up with me, but other times it seems like they don't at all, I have no idea whats going on.
On December 01 2009 05:55 sixghost wrote: Can someone explain exactly how the experience works for inactive members of your party? Sometimes it seems like they are leveling up with me, but other times it seems like they don't at all, I have no idea whats going on.
think you can assume that whatever level your character is, inactive members will be -1 level your level if you haven't used them for a while
On November 29 2009 01:22 Conquest101 wrote: Backstabs show up on screen like criticals. Assuming you have the damage numbers turned on in your settings, it'll show up as a bigger than usual number, just like a critical hit. The attack animation uses your main hand only (I'm not 100% sure if it only uses your main hand damage as well, but pretty sure, bonuses from offhand are definitely applied though). It's a stabbing animation instead of a slashing one. Pretty easy to tell if you are Duel Wielding.
It is sort of possible to BS an opponent that is aggro'd to you, but since you can't strafe in this game, it's quite difficult. Basically move during enemies attack animation. With a good tank, it shouldn't be an issue too much though.
Yes, after lethality, strength becomes fairly useless, especially since dagger/dagger is the best DPS supposedly with a cunning build. Dex/Cunning being you're primary stats. I'd shoot for 20 STR to be able to equip the highest tier light armor. +stats DOES work for equipment as well, so like if you have the +1 all stats ring on for example or other stat jewelry/belts, you could get away with less. Assuming you want to min-max to that degree of course.
Can you explain why dagger/dagger is better than something like longsword/dagger?
On November 29 2009 01:22 Conquest101 wrote: Backstabs show up on screen like criticals. Assuming you have the damage numbers turned on in your settings, it'll show up as a bigger than usual number, just like a critical hit. The attack animation uses your main hand only (I'm not 100% sure if it only uses your main hand damage as well, but pretty sure, bonuses from offhand are definitely applied though). It's a stabbing animation instead of a slashing one. Pretty easy to tell if you are Duel Wielding.
It is sort of possible to BS an opponent that is aggro'd to you, but since you can't strafe in this game, it's quite difficult. Basically move during enemies attack animation. With a good tank, it shouldn't be an issue too much though.
Yes, after lethality, strength becomes fairly useless, especially since dagger/dagger is the best DPS supposedly with a cunning build. Dex/Cunning being you're primary stats. I'd shoot for 20 STR to be able to equip the highest tier light armor. +stats DOES work for equipment as well, so like if you have the +1 all stats ring on for example or other stat jewelry/belts, you could get away with less. Assuming you want to min-max to that degree of course.
Can you explain why dagger/dagger is better than something like longsword/dagger?
Really, it's not better overall though. It just has the highest DPS, supposedly.
That link will give you a more in-depth explanation (predicted DPS chart is half-way down).
Here's the short story though: Lethality.
Going sword/dagger or axe/dagger will require investment in Str to use the best Sword/Axe availble, whereas the best dagger doesn't. Thus, more points into cunning = more damage. Obviously this is moot if you don't get lethality, but keep in mind that more cunning also helps a lot of rogue skills, such as lockpicking, stealing and coercion as well. However, Str builds with Sword or Axe will have a better hit rate, at least in the early game, not to mention the saved points in the Lethality tree.
So in the end, it's you're preference. I like the Dagger/Dagger cunning build, because it adds a lot of overall utility as well, as I have never failed a coercion check that I know of, and can steal from basically everyone. Also recently, I discovered that I can open even the 50 exp chests with just one point in lockpicking. Woot.
On December 01 2009 05:55 sixghost wrote: Can someone explain exactly how the experience works for inactive members of your party? Sometimes it seems like they are leveling up with me, but other times it seems like they don't at all, I have no idea whats going on.
Whenever your main character gains a level, all party members that are more than -1 level are set to -1 the moment they are not active.
And I'm curious, what's the reason cunning is better than dex even against 0 armor targets for dagger/dagger rogues?
On December 02 2009 04:53 andrewlt wrote: And I'm curious, what's the reason cunning is better than dex even against 0 armor targets for dagger/dagger rogues?
Lethality. Cunning is used in place of Strength for damage calculations, so every point invested in Cunning is at least as good as a point of Dexterity. The Dex build needs points in Cunning to meet Talent requirements, but those points, along with bonus Cunning that comes from gear, don't contribute anything to damage, since his final Cunning score equals his final Strength score. In the Cun build, ALL stat points in Dex and Cun contribute to damage, so the total damage is higher, even with 0 armor.
That confused me. Shouldn't something like 20 str, 50 dex, 20 cun be equal to 20 str, 20 dex, 50 cun? Unless there's some other stuff I'm overlooking in the talent build.
Ok, I forgot about exploit weakness and that guy was also assuming a Power of Blood DLC talent.
On December 02 2009 08:08 andrewlt wrote: That confused me. Shouldn't 20 str, 50 dex, 20 cun be equal to 20 str, 20 dex, 50 cun? Unless there's some other stuff I'm overlooking in the talent build.
With equal stats, yes. However, the difference comes in how the chosen gear has its stats distributed.
FAKE EDIT: it seems the person putting together that table made a blunder--he gave the superior Dusk Ring to the Cunning build and the Harvest Festival Ring to the Dex build. In actuality, if the Dex build takes Lethality, it will get the exact same DPS as the Cunning build. However, its worth bearing in mind that a Dex build gets almost no utility out of Lethality (and it's quite possible he simply decided that the Dex build shouldn't get Lethality), and at any non-zero armor value, the cunning build will have superior damage.
Anyone have any input as to how much CON a warrior tank should have? I've read guides saying that 25 is plenty so long as you max out DEX after getting STR to 42 to equip the best gear. However, I've also seen people saying that DEX should only be increased to allow access to all the shield skills and that's it, while maxing out STR and CON.
The max-DEX/nonmax-CON builds would seem to make sense since the tank's defense would be ridiculously high with the best armor and high DEX, however that would appear to only protect them from physical attacks. What happens when they get hit by non-physical attacks, i.e. magic? It would seem that having only 24 in CON could be very dangerous in such situations. On the other end, not pumping DEX past the min required to get all the shield skills seems a bit questionable too since boosting defense would seem ideal for a tank.
On December 03 2009 07:09 XaI)CyRiC wrote: Anyone have any input as to how much CON a warrior tank should have? I've read guides saying that 25 is plenty so long as you max out DEX after getting STR to 42 to equip the best gear. However, I've also seen people saying that DEX should only be increased to allow access to all the shield skills and that's it, while maxing out STR and CON.
The max-DEX/nonmax-CON builds would seem to make sense since the tank's defense would be ridiculously high with the best armor and high DEX, however that would appear to only protect them from physical attacks. What happens when they get hit by non-physical attacks, i.e. magic? It would seem that having only 24 in CON could be very dangerous in such situations. On the other end, not pumping DEX past the min required to get all the shield skills seems a bit questionable too since boosting defense would seem ideal for a tank.
Con 25 should be fine. With a team that has 2-3 mages (that should have heal because rejuvenate is worth having on every mage), your healing output should be enough to keep your tank from dying against anything that doesn't 1-hit him.
Magic attacks should be a nonissue. You can get plenty of resistances from armor such as the Juggernaut Armor, and again, your mages are the ones that should bear the load against casters, with spells like Mana Clash. Even if you ignore the cheesy stuff, Antimagic Ward is a solid investment. Plus, I'm not sure mages even follow the normal aggro rules anyway.
On December 03 2009 08:18 TheYango wrote:Con 25 should be fine. With a team that has 2-3 mages (that should have heal because rejuvenate is worth having on every mage), your healing output should be enough to keep your tank from dying against anything that doesn't 1-hit him.
Magic attacks should be a nonissue. You can get plenty of resistances from armor such as the Juggernaut Armor, and again, your mages are the ones that should bear the load against casters, with spells like Mana Clash. Even if you ignore the cheesy stuff, Antimagic Ward is a solid investment. Plus, I'm not sure mages even follow the normal aggro rules anyway.
Thanks. Is it your opinion that pumping DEX is the way to go after hitting 42 STR and 25 CON?
As for the Juggernaut Armor Set, it seems to be the best tanking armor in the game because of the resistances, but I keep reading that the Superior Dragonbone armor that Wade makes is better. Is it just the higher armor rating or am I overvaluing the resistance boosts?
Couple of other random questions:
1. Does the timing of when you pick up armor/weapons affect how good they are? For example, will the armor set from Warden's Peak be weaker/stronger depending on what level I am when I get it?
2. Do set bonuses only work if you wear every piece? Are there partial bonuses for only having a few pieces? I seem to remember still seeing the set bonus icon on the profile page even when I'm missing a piece from a set, but I may be mistaken.
On December 03 2009 09:34 XaI)CyRiC wrote: As for the Juggernaut Armor Set, it seems to be the best tanking armor in the game because of the resistances, but I keep reading that the Superior Dragonbone armor that Wade makes is better. Is it just the higher armor rating or am I overvaluing the resistance boosts?
Superior Dragonbone Armor is good primarily because of the drastic fatigue reduction relative to other massive armors. This means you'll get much more mileage out of it on a DPS warrior or Arcane Warrior.
On December 03 2009 09:34 XaI)CyRiC wrote: 1. Does the timing of when you pick up armor/weapons affect how good they are? For example, will the armor set from Warden's Peak be weaker/stronger depending on what level I am when I get it?
For regular armor, yes (their material type scales). For unique armor, the material type is constant, so no.
On December 03 2009 09:34 XaI)CyRiC wrote: 2. Do set bonuses only work if you wear every piece? Are there partial bonuses for only having a few pieces? I seem to remember still seeing the set bonus icon on the profile page even when I'm missing a piece from a set, but I may be mistaken.
As far as I can tell, there are no partial set bonuses, but I could be wrong (it would help if the game actually displayed bonuses).
After making my post, I immediately found a few answers that may be useful to everyone else.
1. Blood Dragon Armor Set doesn't require the helmet in order to receive the set bonus. This is the reason why I thought there were partial bonuses as I had swapped out the helmet for another and still received the set bonus.
2. The Warden Commander Armor will vary in what it's made of depending on when you acquire it, i.e. Viridium (Tier 4) when it is found at level 9, at level 17, it will be made of Dragonbone (Tier 7).
On December 03 2009 09:55 XaI)CyRiC wrote: After making my post, I immediately found a few answers that may be useful to everyone else.
1. Blood Dragon Armor Set doesn't require the helmet in order to receive the set bonus. This is the reason why I thought there were partial bonuses as I had swapped out the helmet for another and still received the set bonus.
2. The Warden Commander Armor will vary in what it's made of depending on when you acquire it, i.e. Viridium (Tier 4) when it is found at level 9, at level 17, it will be made of Dragonbone (Tier 7).
On December 03 2009 09:55 XaI)CyRiC wrote: After making my post, I immediately found a few answers that may be useful to everyone else.
1. Blood Dragon Armor Set doesn't require the helmet in order to receive the set bonus. This is the reason why I thought there were partial bonuses as I had swapped out the helmet for another and still received the set bonus.
2. The Warden Commander Armor will vary in what it's made of depending on when you acquire it, i.e. Viridium (Tier 4) when it is found at level 9, at level 17, it will be made of Dragonbone (Tier 7).
oh crap. Nice! I didn't know that about the WC set. I'll get it a lot later on for Alistair then.
On December 03 2009 09:55 XaI)CyRiC wrote: After making my post, I immediately found a few answers that may be useful to everyone else.
1. Blood Dragon Armor Set doesn't require the helmet in order to receive the set bonus. This is the reason why I thought there were partial bonuses as I had swapped out the helmet for another and still received the set bonus.
2. The Warden Commander Armor will vary in what it's made of depending on when you acquire it, i.e. Viridium (Tier 4) when it is found at level 9, at level 17, it will be made of Dragonbone (Tier 7).
oh crap. Nice! I didn't know that about the WC set. I'll get it a lot later on for Alistair then.
Also, its not necessary to wait. You can get it now and upgrade it later (for 20gold iirc).
Sell it to the smithy brother once you gain more levels (the same one that gives you starfang), leave, come back and it will automatically be upgraded to dragonbone if youre high enough level. Buy, repeat for all warden commander items. I think level 12 was the minimum for the dragonbone upgrade, not sure.
I just made a new dragon age mod that adds a new tree to the shape shifting specialization. The ultimate form is the archdemon shape, and I edited the animation files myself so that the model can actually move around in game!
ARCHDEMON SHAPE and Boss Shapeshifting Tree
version 1.0
by Orgolove
INTRODUCTION Ever wished you could become the bosses that you were fighting? Ever hoped that the shapeshifter class would be buffed?
Ever try any other mod that said they could make you into an archdemon, only to just shift you into the model without any ability to move?!?!?
What do I mean by above? Archdemons in game cannot move, and all its attacks are actually talents. Thus, in the vanilla game, there are NO animations for Archdemon's movements .
I literally went through line by line to look at all the animations, choose the one best fit for walking, and converted the animation trees for all the walking and attacking animations to match the Archdemon model so that the shapeshifted version can move!
It's here! NOW! After many weeks of working on this nonstop, I present to you: The Archdemon Shape! It's a REVOLUTION!!
Features
ARCHDEMON SHAPE! [heading]YOU CAN SHAPESHIFT INTO AN ARCHDEMON![/heading] You can move while in archdemon form! The Archdemon shape gives the following abilities: Abilities:
Wing Buffet
Roar
Dragon Breath (remember, this skill does not hit the ones that are RIGHT in front of them. this skill does hit the enemies that are a certain distance away, however. See gameplay video!)
Sweep (attack area in front)
With Master Shapeshifter:
Grab (grab enemy in mouth, shake it around and attack it)
This mod also adds three other shapes, listed below: Revenant Shape
!!ATTENTION!! ANIMATION EDITED TO MAKE THE OUT OF COMBAT WALK/RUN SPEED REASONABLE!! i.e. without animation editing, the movespeed out of combat is extremely, extremely slow (like the revenant shape in that *other* shifter mod). With animation editing, it is much more useable.
Abilities:
Revenant Pull
Double Strike
Fire Aura
Healing Aura
With Master Shapeshifter:
Mass Pull
Ogre Shape
Same as revenant. ANIMATION EDITED TO MAKE THE OUT OF COMBAT WALK/RUN SPEED REASONABLE!! i.e. without animation editing, the movespeed out of combat is extremely, extremely slow (like the revenant shape in that *other* shifter mod). With animation editing, it is much more useable.
Abilities:
Smash
Stomp
Hurl
Ram
With Master Shapeshifter:
Grab
Pride Demon Shape
Same as revenant. ANIMATION EDITED TO MAKE THE OUT OF COMBAT WALK/RUN SPEED REASONABLE!! i.e. without animation editing, the movespeed out of combat is extremely, extremely slow (like the revenant shape in that *other* shifter mod). With animation editing, it is much more useable.
Abilities:
Frost Burst*
Fire Blast
Fire Bolt
Frost Bolt*
*(note: Bioware screwed up and switched the frost burst and frost bolt. You get both abilities, so it doesn't matter too much, but it may be a bit confusing the first time you use them.)
I'm not an RPG fan, actually i'm not a fan of non-strategic games, but this game is awesome, really. It's so hard i'm shitting bricks on normal.
But why i write here is because i'd have a question: I've got a mage, an arcane warrior, and now i'm level 14 and i'm allowed to have a new specialization. I thought to get blood mage specialization because i have a healer and a shapeshifter already. Is that ok? And how could i get that btw? I know i could have got that from the demon in the Fade, but that's not an option anymore. I dont want to read a walktrough or anything like that, i dont want to get spoiled.
Would a hardcore player give me some advice regarding the arcane warrior, and becoming a bloodmage?
On December 03 2009 17:33 Geo.Rion wrote: hi guys!
I'm not an RPG fan, actually i'm not a fan of non-strategic games, but this game is awesome, really. It's so hard i'm shitting bricks on normal.
But why i write here is because i'd have a question: I've got a mage, an arcane warrior, and now i'm level 14 and i'm allowed to have a new specialization. I thought to get blood mage specialization because i have a healer and a shapeshifter already. Is that ok? And how could i get that btw? I know i could have got that from the demon in the Fade, but that's not an option anymore. I dont want to read a walktrough or anything like that, i dont want to get spoiled.
Would a hardcore player give me some advice regarding the arcane warrior, and becoming a bloodmage?
Unfortunately, if you did not get Blood Mage in the Fade at Castle Redcliffe, you missed your one and only chance. At least on that character. What you can do is rush another mage character up to the Redcliffe area, and get it on him/her, as any specialization you unlock is unlocked for ALL your characters. Or you could add it by console/mod I believe if you are willing.
Arcane warriors are AMAZINGLY durable, especially with Shimmering Shield, massive armor, and buffs of your choice. This makes them ideal for the Blood Mage spec, since it allows them to rape their own life with much greater safety compared to any other mage. Assuming you have another mage to feed you heals/rejuvenates or a Ranger pet to steal life from, you basically have a spell casting tank with infinite mana. They also do pretty damn good melee damage as well.
A good thing to keep in mind with an Arcane Warrior is which spells require you to sheathe your weapon(s) (which delays casting naturally), and adjust your spellcasting accordingly.
On December 03 2009 20:02 Corvi wrote: are there any good fanmade dungeons/quests created with the toolset to download? i didnt find anything via google
I don't believe there is anything noteworthy yet. It'll probably be a little while yet before mods really get rolling.
Hmm. I never tried. I don't think I changed any deathblow related variables, so I think that may very well be the case. But I make a point of not dying when playing, so I'm not sure. Perhaps you can update me on whether that's the case.
Well, I just finished the game, so I thought I'd post some thoughts about it. Gameplay wise, it was decent, if on the easy side. Even on the hardest difficulty, the majority of the game was little to no challenge. Blatant balance issues like potion chugging or the ridiculousness of Cone of Cold coupled with the easily exploited enemy AI (abuse of line of sight, dragging bosses away from their support, kiting melee ad infinitum, etc.) make almost every encounter trivial. The end boss and the sequences leading up it were especially disappointing. When its health dropped, I fully expected it to unleash some devastating new ability, take on a new form, or something. Sadly, it just keeled over, and the game ended.
Story-wise, the game fares better, but it too has issues. The overarching conflict the game is based around is rather uninspired to put it mildly and downright dull to put it bluntly. Having said that, many of the individual sections and quests are very well written and engaging. However, for every superior quest line, there is an equally dull chain of fetch quests and go-here-to-kill-X type garbage. I suppose something needs to fill up the time, and I can't really blame the game for that.
In my view, the strongest area of the game is its characters, especially how they interact as well as their background stories. Hearing their random banter often made me smirk and forget the monotony of what I was doing.
Overall, I would say the game was enjoyable enough and is a worthwhile purchase for people who happen to enjoy CRPGs. Although it is certainly above average, I feel that doesn't really deserve many of the accolades it is receiving. It's simply not that good.
On December 08 2009 17:10 Psyonic_Reaver wrote: There is somebody doing Baulder's Gate remake using this game as an Engine. I can't wait for that to be released.
On December 08 2009 17:10 Psyonic_Reaver wrote: There is somebody doing Baulder's Gate remake using this game as an Engine. I can't wait for that to be released.
WTF? Link?
Haha, it doesn't matter because it will never happen =p.
Monstrous user projects like that always end up unfinished.
On December 08 2009 17:10 Psyonic_Reaver wrote: There is somebody doing Baulder's Gate remake using this game as an Engine. I can't wait for that to be released.
WTF? Link?
Haha, it doesn't matter because it will never happen =p.
Monstrous user projects like that always end up unfinished.
neigh sayers stfu rawr.
but really, i am interested if anyone has a link, or anything to back up that claim.
i would cream myself if they did, but the amount of work oh god.
On December 08 2009 03:01 Draconizard wrote: Well, I just finished the game, so I thought I'd post some thoughts about it. Gameplay wise, it was decent, if on the easy side. Even on the hardest difficulty, the majority of the game was little to no challenge. Blatant balance issues like potion chugging or the ridiculousness of Cone of Cold coupled with the easily exploited enemy AI (abuse of line of sight, dragging bosses away from their support, kiting melee ad infinitum, etc.) make almost every encounter trivial. The end boss and the sequences leading up it were especially disappointing. When its health dropped, I fully expected it to unleash some devastating new ability, take on a new form, or something. Sadly, it just keeled over, and the game ended.
Story-wise, the game fares better, but it too has issues. The overarching conflict the game is based around is rather uninspired to put it mildly and downright dull to put it bluntly. Having said that, many of the individual sections and quests are very well written and engaging. However, for every superior quest line, there is an equally dull chain of fetch quests and go-here-to-kill-X type garbage. I suppose something needs to fill up the time, and I can't really blame the game for that.
In my view, the strongest area of the game is its characters, especially how they interact as well as their background stories. Hearing their random banter often made me smirk and forget the monotony of what I was doing.
Overall, I would say the game was enjoyable enough and is a worthwhile purchase for people who happen to enjoy CRPGs. Although it is certainly above average, I feel that doesn't really deserve many of the accolades it is receiving. It's simply not that good.
I think you should patch the game, it fixes a lot of issues regarding the cone of cold imbalance
On December 08 2009 17:10 Psyonic_Reaver wrote: There is somebody doing Baulder's Gate remake using this game as an Engine. I can't wait for that to be released.
WTF? Link?
Haha, it doesn't matter because it will never happen =p.
Monstrous user projects like that always end up unfinished.
You might want to check what the Baldurs Gate community has done with their game...
On December 08 2009 17:10 Psyonic_Reaver wrote: There is somebody doing Baulder's Gate remake using this game as an Engine. I can't wait for that to be released.
WTF? Link?
Haha, it doesn't matter because it will never happen =p.
Monstrous user projects like that always end up unfinished.
You might want to check what the Baldurs Gate community has done with their game...
Fine, fine, I'll reserve judgment for now. Though this was attempted with the NWN engine in the past it seems, and never finished :p
What the point of modding a game with a new engine just for the gfx.
Like the bw mod for war3 it is just a waste of time and doomed to fail. I can understand some gfx tweaks using the same engine but recreating the whole game is just ridiculous and stupid. Also i don't think it would make a better game.
On December 09 2009 22:56 Boblion wrote: What the point of modding a game with a new engine just for the gfx.
Like the bw mod for war3 it is just a waste of time and doomed to fail. I can understand some gfx tweaks using the same engine but recreating the whole game is just ridiculous and stupid. Also i don't think it would make a better game.
I think the real issue is that the engine just doesn't feel compatible with the mechanics of D&D. Round-tracking is nonexistent, and indeed mana would have to be done away with entirely (from experience, most spell-point variants of the D&D spell system wind up more imbalanced than their Vancian casting counterparts--and that's saying something given how imbalanced Wizards are in D&D already). The whole engine seems like it was built to stay away from some of the mechanics of D&D, and to go back to it seems like it would be really awkward.
That's entirely different. The Source engine was built with the mechanics of Half Life 1 in mind (as evidenced by the fact that Half Life Source existed on release). The Warcraft 3 engine, by contrast, dumped a lot of the mechanics of the Starcraft engine that were deemed bugs or archaic (e.g. Warcraft 3 units have slow turning, etc.). It's pretty hard to deal with those engine issues, because, when compounded, they really change the experience of the game.
So I'm running a 3 mage, 1 tank part, and up till now (~lvl 13 on nightmare) I've been using allistar. I just completed the stone prisoner quest and got shale and am having trouble deciding which is the better tank...
Shale has more HP, gains/holds aggro better and more easily (with his passive skill + threaten aura + 2 aoe stuns/knockdowns + taunt + single target aggro spell), but drawbacks that I see are that I'm not sure if Shale will scale well up till late game since you cant equip anything except 2 crystals. Also, only 1 tree of spells (the aggro spells) seem useful / have enough stamina for in a defensive tank.
On December 10 2009 04:57 TheMango wrote: So I'm running a 3 mage, 1 tank part, and up till now (~lvl 13 on nightmare) I've been using allistar. I just completed the stone prisoner quest and got shale and am having trouble deciding which is the better tank...
Shale has more HP, gains/holds aggro better and more easily (with his passive skill + threaten aura + 2 aoe stuns/knockdowns + taunt + single target aggro spell), but drawbacks that I see are that I'm not sure if Shale will scale well up till late game since you cant equip anything except 2 crystals. Also, only 1 tree of spells (the aggro spells) seem useful / have enough stamina for in a defensive tank.
Shale is a better tank in the middle levels of the game. How good he is in comparison to Alistair is entirely dependent on the gear you've gotten for Alistair. By the time you get a good shield like Duncan's Shield and massive armor like the Armor of the Legion or Juggernaut Armor, it's not even close.
I got Shale fairly late, so by the time I had him, he was pretty useless in comparison to Alistair.
On December 08 2009 17:10 Psyonic_Reaver wrote: There is somebody doing Baulder's Gate remake using this game as an Engine. I can't wait for that to be released.
WTF? Link?
Haha, it doesn't matter because it will never happen =p.
Monstrous user projects like that always end up unfinished.
You might want to check what the Baldurs Gate community has done with their game...
There are a ton of mods, but none of the huge ones are great and most are just bad. The Darkest Day has been a running joke in the community for years.
All of the great BG2 mods have been limited in scope.
On December 10 2009 04:57 TheMango wrote: So I'm running a 3 mage, 1 tank part, and up till now (~lvl 13 on nightmare) I've been using allistar. I just completed the stone prisoner quest and got shale and am having trouble deciding which is the better tank...
Shale has more HP, gains/holds aggro better and more easily (with his passive skill + threaten aura + 2 aoe stuns/knockdowns + taunt + single target aggro spell), but drawbacks that I see are that I'm not sure if Shale will scale well up till late game since you cant equip anything except 2 crystals. Also, only 1 tree of spells (the aggro spells) seem useful / have enough stamina for in a defensive tank.
Shale is a better tank in the middle levels of the game. How good he is in comparison to Alistair is entirely dependent on the gear you've gotten for Alistair. By the time you get a good shield like Duncan's Shield and massive armor like the Armor of the Legion or Juggernaut Armor, it's not even close.
I got Shale fairly late, so by the time I had him, he was pretty useless in comparison to Alistair.
Agreed, Alistair is the better tank once properly equipped. Though with 3 mages, he could be naked and you could still beat even Nightmare <.<
On December 10 2009 10:06 Conquest101 wrote: Agreed, Alistair is the better tank once properly equipped. Though with 3 mages, he could be naked and you could still beat even Nightmare <.<
That depends how much the new new patch nerfs Cone of Cold and the Telekinetic line.
Though, triple mage can still perma-lock enemies, so long as you have at least 1 blood mage, I think.
On December 10 2009 10:06 Conquest101 wrote: Agreed, Alistair is the better tank once properly equipped. Though with 3 mages, he could be naked and you could still beat even Nightmare <.<
That depends how much the new new patch nerfs Cone of Cold and the Telekinetic line.
Though, triple mage can still perma-lock enemies, so long as you have at least 1 blood mage, I think.
On December 10 2009 11:12 sixghost wrote: What exactly did they do to those spells?
According to the patch notes, a combination of shorter duration and longer cooldown (haven't bothered to actually test and figure out the exact details).
Yeah, i beat this game! (Alistar+Morrigan+Wynne+ me as a mage) Though it's schoking how easy is the last quest! The generals gone down without using a potion or an additional army, and the archdemon gone down from my second try, the first one wasnt even serious. I had my potent potions untouched, and many other potions left, did not use the elfs, the dwarfes, the golems at all! Just the mages when there are like 2 emissaries, 1 alpha archer and dragons and a tone of other shit, and called for the humans against the archdemon (i thought they will die and then i can use the others, well they didnt).
To put this in perspective, Gaxgank the Unbound killed me at least 20 times, probably even more, or back when i fought Flemeth, it gave me a lot more trouble than this dragon wannabe.
And how comes that i'm at liek 50% of the game done? I got every side quest i could, really, ok, i missed many i guess, but i'm not that sstupid to miss half of the game. How is that counted?
On December 08 2009 03:01 Draconizard wrote: Well, I just finished the game, so I thought I'd post some thoughts about it. Gameplay wise, it was decent, if on the easy side. Even on the hardest difficulty, the majority of the game was little to no challenge. Blatant balance issues like potion chugging or the ridiculousness of Cone of Cold coupled with the easily exploited enemy AI (abuse of line of sight, dragging bosses away from their support, kiting melee ad infinitum, etc.) make almost every encounter trivial. The end boss and the sequences leading up it were especially disappointing. When its health dropped, I fully expected it to unleash some devastating new ability, take on a new form, or something. Sadly, it just keeled over, and the game ended.
Story-wise, the game fares better, but it too has issues. The overarching conflict the game is based around is rather uninspired to put it mildly and downright dull to put it bluntly. Having said that, many of the individual sections and quests are very well written and engaging. However, for every superior quest line, there is an equally dull chain of fetch quests and go-here-to-kill-X type garbage. I suppose something needs to fill up the time, and I can't really blame the game for that.
In my view, the strongest area of the game is its characters, especially how they interact as well as their background stories. Hearing their random banter often made me smirk and forget the monotony of what I was doing.
Overall, I would say the game was enjoyable enough and is a worthwhile purchase for people who happen to enjoy CRPGs. Although it is certainly above average, I feel that doesn't really deserve many of the accolades it is receiving. It's simply not that good.
What? You found this game easy?? WTHELL? OK final boss was easy, some other boss fights could be abused easely, but random ambushes or lesser bossfights in limited areas made me shit bricks on normal (like 12 archers on a ridge, 6-7 soldires from the front, 3 from behind, and i'm around lvl 10-12, in Denerim)! Am i that bad?
On December 12 2009 00:12 Velr wrote: You probably just don't have your Mage skilled properly. This games difficulty rises and falls with your knowledge of Mages...
Yeah, try going through the game with only 1 mage for example on Nightmare. Some areas are hard as wtf.
My first play through right now is on hard with a "Backstab 2-Hander" build Rogue. Quite interesting I must say, as the first guy who did this build was quite sucessful.
On December 11 2009 20:52 Geo.Rion wrote: What? You found this game easy?? WTHELL? OK final boss was easy, some other boss fights could be abused easely, but random ambushes or lesser bossfights in limited areas made me shit bricks on normal (like 12 archers on a ridge, 6-7 soldires from the front, 3 from behind, and i'm around lvl 10-12, in Denerim)! Am i that bad?
Denerim is designed for levels 11+. If you're 10-12, you may be below the scaling range of a lot of encounters in Denerim, which will make them harder than they should be.
I have to agree that the game is easy unless you're deliberately avoiding mage-centric setups. Most of the difficulty I faced in retrospect was due to going to areas out of the appropriate level range (e.g. Brecilian Forest kicked my ass because I did it first).
Of course, this doesn't hold true for mage-lite setups. Going through the game as a rogue is much harder, particularly on nightmare.
I played on normal with a backstab rogue and there are some encounters that are a decent challenge. The rogue came into his own around the midteens, though, and killing boss mobs was quite easy with his crazy single target damage.. I think it may actually have been easier to kill those mobs compared to 3 mage setups. The only difficult single target mobs were the ones with knockbacks and/or area of effect attacks like revenants and dragons, since he was a pain to heal.
That and I wanted to try most of the spells and spell combinations in the game so I saved the telekinetic line for a second playthrough. I also didn't give Morrigan heal/rejuv so I only had Wynne to heal. That made the game harder. LOL
And I think the game is a bit harder if you don't make a beeline for Circle Tower to grab Wynne. Her healing makes a huge difference.
On December 11 2009 20:52 Geo.Rion wrote: What? You found this game easy?? WTHELL? OK final boss was easy, some other boss fights could be abused easely, but random ambushes or lesser bossfights in limited areas made me shit bricks on normal (like 12 archers on a ridge, 6-7 soldires from the front, 3 from behind, and i'm around lvl 10-12, in Denerim)! Am i that bad?
Denerim is designed for levels 11+. If you're 10-12, you may be below the scaling range of a lot of encounters in Denerim, which will make them harder than they should be.
I have to agree that the game is easy unless you're deliberately avoiding mage-centric setups. Most of the difficulty I faced in retrospect was due to going to areas out of the appropriate level range (e.g. Brecilian Forest kicked my ass because I did it first).
Of course, this doesn't hold true for mage-lite setups. Going through the game as a rogue is much harder, particularly on nightmare.
I was under the impression the entire game scaled to your level. Previous Bioware games have always scaled during the open world parts of the games.
On December 11 2009 20:52 Geo.Rion wrote: What? You found this game easy?? WTHELL? OK final boss was easy, some other boss fights could be abused easely, but random ambushes or lesser bossfights in limited areas made me shit bricks on normal (like 12 archers on a ridge, 6-7 soldires from the front, 3 from behind, and i'm around lvl 10-12, in Denerim)! Am i that bad?
Denerim is designed for levels 11+. If you're 10-12, you may be below the scaling range of a lot of encounters in Denerim, which will make them harder than they should be.
I have to agree that the game is easy unless you're deliberately avoiding mage-centric setups. Most of the difficulty I faced in retrospect was due to going to areas out of the appropriate level range (e.g. Brecilian Forest kicked my ass because I did it first).
Of course, this doesn't hold true for mage-lite setups. Going through the game as a rogue is much harder, particularly on nightmare.
I was under the impression the entire game scaled to your level. Previous Bioware games have always scaled during the open world parts of the games.
They do but they also set min and max levels to the scaling. If your are below the min level, it won't scale below that and it will be much harder.
On December 12 2009 06:04 sixghost wrote: I was under the impression the entire game scaled to your level. Previous Bioware games have always scaled during the open world parts of the games.
I pointed this out earlier. The Missing Manual figured out the scaling rules. Places scale within a range of levels, meaning that if you're below a certain level, it won't scale to you. This leaves an implicit order that Bioware sort of hid in the game for you to do things.
And strictly speaking, only games post-KotOR had scaling. Baldur's Gate I and II had variable encounter size and frequency in certain areas, but actual monster stats didn't get tweaked.
So I'm wondering, are all those +x stamina and +x to stamina regeneration modifiers useless to arcane warriors? I'm wondering what the best armor is for an arcane warrior tank.
On December 12 2009 06:59 andrewlt wrote: So I'm wondering, are all those +x stamina and +x to stamina regeneration modifiers useless to arcane warriors? I'm wondering what the best armor is for an arcane warrior tank.
I'm still curious why you want your Arcane Warrior to tank, given that 1) the Arcane Warrior ideally has better things to do with his health (like casting spells), 2) a 4 mage party is impossible, so you're going to have a Fighter anyway, and 3) tanking increases the likelihood of spell interruption in big combats. Not to mention that Shimmering Shield got nerfed.
If you must have your Arcane Warrior tank, Wade's Dragonbone Armor is still the best armor for an Arcane Warrior. The stamina bonuses don't go anywhere, but the absurd fatigue reduction from the set bonus makes up for it.
On December 12 2009 06:59 andrewlt wrote: So I'm wondering, are all those +x stamina and +x to stamina regeneration modifiers useless to arcane warriors? I'm wondering what the best armor is for an arcane warrior tank.
I'm still curious why you want your Arcane Warrior to tank, given that 1) the Arcane Warrior ideally has better things to do with his health (like casting spells), 2) a 4 mage party is impossible, so you're going to have a Fighter anyway, and 3) tanking increases the likelihood of spell interruption in big combats. Not to mention that Shimmering Shield got nerfed.
If you must have your Arcane Warrior tank, Wade's Dragonbone Armor is still the best armor for an Arcane Warrior. The stamina bonuses don't go anywhere, but the absurd fatigue reduction from the set bonus makes up for it.
I figured I'd have Leliana for the 4th member to have ranger pets (to fuel blood mage) and ranged damage. On second thought, having Alistair tank might be better though I'm not sure how good an arcane warrior is compared to a regular mage if I'm going to have Alistair tank anyway.
Is that Dragonbone with the -10% fatigue or do you mean Dragonscale? That one has around 7.5 less armor in the set but a lot lower fatigue.
On December 12 2009 07:49 andrewlt wrote: Is that Dragonbone with the -10% fatigue or do you mean Dragonscale? That one has around 7.5 less armor in the set but a lot lower fatigue.
Yeah, I meant Dragonscale. Note though, that if you want Alistair to use it, Dragonbone may still be worth getting instead.
On December 12 2009 07:49 andrewlt wrote: Is that Dragonbone with the -10% fatigue or do you mean Dragonscale? That one has around 7.5 less armor in the set but a lot lower fatigue.
Yeah, I meant Dragonscale. Note though, that if you want Alistair to use it, Dragonbone may still be worth getting instead.
Yeah, I'm using Dragonbone for Alistair in my first playthrough with a rogue main. I don't use that many abilities that the lesser fatigue is worth the armor tradeoff.
The back half of this game really dragged on so much. Once the fun of the combat wore off I was so ready for the game to be over. Maybe they should have cut out 1 of the main quest locations or something. I don't know if it was just the length, or maybe I'm just starting to get sick of Bioware games. It seems like every single game they make controls the exact same way, has the same underlying story mechanics, and they just slap a new skin on the thing.
Also, it seems like Bioware games always struggle to really build up steam to a climax, maybe it's just endemic to the open world style of the middle 80% of the game, but the story wasn't nearly interesting enough to matter over 50 hours of gameplay. I would much prefer that Bioware made the games' story linear in the order you visited areas, like a more traditional RPG, so they could control the pace of the story more. I enjoyed the story for the first 6-7 hours before the world opened up, then the last 2-3 hours was pretty cool, but there was so long of a gap in between the times they actually made the story matter, I just wanted it to be over with.
On December 13 2009 01:21 sixghost wrote: The back half of this game really dragged on so much. Once the fun of the combat wore off I was so ready for the game to be over. Maybe they should have cut out 1 of the main quest locations or something. I don't know if it was just the length, or maybe I'm just starting to get sick of Bioware games. It seems like every single game they make controls the exact same way, has the same underlying story mechanics, and they just slap a new skin on the thing.
Also, it seems like Bioware games always struggle to really build up steam to a climax, maybe it's just endemic to the open world style of the middle 80% of the game, but the story wasn't nearly interesting enough to matter over 50 hours of gameplay. I would much prefer that Bioware made the games' story linear in the order you visited areas, like a more traditional RPG, so they could control the pace of the story more. I enjoyed the story for the first 6-7 hours before the world opened up, then the last 2-3 hours was pretty cool, but there was so long of a gap in between the times they actually made the story matter, I just wanted it to be over with.
I agree with most of this. However, one thing I have to mention is the banter. The character banter is fricking hilarious sometimes. In my opinion, one of the majors draw of a new playthrough isn't so much a new class or new origin, but using a new combination of party members just to listen to their interaction as you wander around and do side quests and such.
On December 13 2009 01:21 sixghost wrote: The back half of this game really dragged on so much. Once the fun of the combat wore off I was so ready for the game to be over. Maybe they should have cut out 1 of the main quest locations or something. I don't know if it was just the length, or maybe I'm just starting to get sick of Bioware games. It seems like every single game they make controls the exact same way, has the same underlying story mechanics, and they just slap a new skin on the thing.
Also, it seems like Bioware games always struggle to really build up steam to a climax, maybe it's just endemic to the open world style of the middle 80% of the game, but the story wasn't nearly interesting enough to matter over 50 hours of gameplay. I would much prefer that Bioware made the games' story linear in the order you visited areas, like a more traditional RPG, so they could control the pace of the story more. I enjoyed the story for the first 6-7 hours before the world opened up, then the last 2-3 hours was pretty cool, but there was so long of a gap in between the times they actually made the story matter, I just wanted it to be over with.
That's the problem with an open world style of game. The main story takes a backseat during the middle of the game, where you're doing mostly side quests and almost self-contained stories that are only loosely connected to the main quest.
I have a different view of the game, though. I think that the Landsmeet onwards was too short. Rescuing the queen took a huge chunk of it and the "dungeons" felt empty compared to Orzammar. The post-Landsmeet climax was very short. It felt like there just was a small darkspawn army in Denerim.
Played it on normal with main as DW warrior , sten as 2hander obv, the healing old woman from circle of magi or whatever and that archer dudette who is a rogue. My party was so bad, i had to reload loads of times, some hard hitting guy i had to turn down to easy a few times. My dw warrior did almost 48% of the party damage, svens 2 hander damaga was just so bad, the archer dudette couldnt hit anything and when she did it was like 30 damage. Upgrading gear is really fun with warrior type guys tho, as the difference between weapons can really show.
Anyways i played it again with a mage as main and did 2 mage warrior rogue setup , played it on hardest for about half the storyline then it got boring ;o serious gamebalance this game has. But fun it was
On December 11 2009 20:52 Geo.Rion wrote: What? You found this game easy?? WTHELL? OK final boss was easy, some other boss fights could be abused easely, but random ambushes or lesser bossfights in limited areas made me shit bricks on normal (like 12 archers on a ridge, 6-7 soldires from the front, 3 from behind, and i'm around lvl 10-12, in Denerim)! Am i that bad?
Denerim is designed for levels 11+. If you're 10-12, you may be below the scaling range of a lot of encounters in Denerim, which will make them harder than they should be.
I have to agree that the game is easy unless you're deliberately avoiding mage-centric setups. Most of the difficulty I faced in retrospect was due to going to areas out of the appropriate level range (e.g. Brecilian Forest kicked my ass because I did it first).
Of course, this doesn't hold true for mage-lite setups. Going through the game as a rogue is much harder, particularly on nightmare.
i did bracilian forest first too. Witherfang and co was really hard to beat
On December 12 2009 06:59 andrewlt wrote: So I'm wondering, are all those +x stamina and +x to stamina regeneration modifiers useless to arcane warriors? I'm wondering what the best armor is for an arcane warrior tank.
I'm still curious why you want your Arcane Warrior to tank, given that 1) the Arcane Warrior ideally has better things to do with his health (like casting spells), 2) a 4 mage party is impossible, so you're going to have a Fighter anyway, and 3) tanking increases the likelihood of spell interruption in big combats. Not to mention that Shimmering Shield got nerfed.
If you must have your Arcane Warrior tank, Wade's Dragonbone Armor is still the best armor for an Arcane Warrior. The stamina bonuses don't go anywhere, but the absurd fatigue reduction from the set bonus makes up for it.
I had an arcane warrior too, what i did was i used him as a caster (robe equipped) and when i spent all my mana i did not use potions, but got into meele mode with my Spellweawer sword and some good armors and joined Alistair in the meele combat., while kept healing/casting with Morrigan and Wynne.
I do not feel i played really badly, i abused cone of cold- shattering and area of effect spells as much as i could, but this game was still hard for me. Ok, probably Brecilian Forest-Redclife-Denerim-Orrzamar wasn't the right order but still... For instance Gaxkang the unbound... How the hell do you beat that face to face? You're in a limited room, no aoes are possible, he uses dispell on himself, steals life, uses AOEs himself, is immune to half of my spells. The only way i could beat him was to lure him with Alistair a bit towards the other side of his room and kept agro as much as i could, and used a tone of potions. And i had to try a whole lot even this way to succseed.
Almost done (I think) with my first play through, playing on nightmare-plus (excellent mod, I recomend it) Mage main, alistair, shale and leliana. Leliana was dead weight early, but later she started to really shine, biggest dps is the group by far now. Shale was crazy good early, maybe not so much anymore. Alistair gets better and better (starting from not so good) due to the crazy amount of gear avaible for him. My mage is alright but I would definetely have done a different spell selection if I had started now.
Story and immersion wise I really think the game is up there with the BG games. However many of the side quests are.. boring at best, the entire "look at board, go to marked location, kill ten bandits, return for reward without dialouge" Makes you feel like you are grinding a mmorpg =p. Many of them could also have been helped a lot by being less newbie proof =p. I mean giving npcs names which are essentially "The thug you are looking for" is just retarded. Some quests are really, really nice though and I _love_ all the backstory constantly being thrown at, though more could have been added via dialouge and libraries and less via random books lying about in taverns.
The fighting is nice, the ai feels way smarter than ever in BG or nwn. However it drives me mad that hostiles can simply run straight through a perfectly drawn line of fighters and oneshot my mage without any penalties whatsoever :/ I really miss the attacks of opportunities from nwn. Merchants seemingly not restocking basics like health potions and injury kits is irritating but constant lack of supplies adds to the difficulty. I also love the way you never ever get rich enough to buy whatever you want, in fallout 2 that happened way too early and in BG money was never truly an issue since most of the good stuff was looted anyway.
All in all a great game that I am really happy that I bought. Guess single player PC games aren't dead after all.
Hi! I'm posting another mod I made for Dragon Age - Summon Armies! >:D
The joke goes like this: So, my guild decided to do a 25 man nightmare mode version of the High Dragon raid in Dragon Age...
Allow Multiple Summons - Summon Army of Warriors
version 1.0
by Orgolove
INTRODUCTION
This is a mod designed to let you feel like a general commanding over a large army. With three companions each summonning five warriors, and you summoning five warriors, you can have potentially 24 humanoid fighters on the field.
After careful consideration, I chose the Hurlock Emissary (most powerful grunt darkspawn), the Qunari Mercenary, and Heavy Mercenary as my chosen soldiers.
The Qunari Mercenary has Two Handed Sweep and Sunder Arms. The Heavy Mercenary has Shield Wall and Assault. The Hurlock Emissary can summon two additional warriors, the Heavy Mercenary and the Qunari mercenary. I wanted to alter the Animate Dead spell as well, but that one is too heavily integrated as scripts.
All the summons have many other abilities if commanded via the tactics sheet.
Just finished playing through this game after having spent over 70 hours into this game O_O
I was really impressed by some aspects of the game, like how much content it had, the dialogues between the group while just walking around, all these random encounters which werent really random but quite unique often.
Other things could have really been done better, Alistair shouldnt have been such a freakin baby for example, some humour is fine but after a while (just after I had started liking him) he was just too much of a whining kid, also if youre gonna have this possibility to have relationship to one of your members why not make the women really likeable? Morrigan was a selfish always-nagging bitch and Leliana was a religious fanatic, wtf man (plus she didnt look good until I changed that with a mod) My in-game cousin Shianna (city elf) was 100 times more likeable than any of them. Wynne was pretty much the only character I liked, although Oghren could be fun too, but he was rarely part of my party (Morrigan,Wynne,Alistair, and my rogue)
Overall I obviously wouldnt have put 70 hours into it if I didnt like it but I was a bit disappointed, especially after the city elf beginning which I thought was really interesting and the music made me all nostalgic about Baldurs Gate (Alienage music is definitely the best ingame music imo) Also I didnt find the fights thaat exciting, also some things were silly, like how I could abuse spells like blizzard to a ridiculous extent (open door with stealthed rogue, close door, cast blizzard/similar fire or whatever spells on all enemies who'll be too stupid to actually run towards you) Also I found battles too easy after Brecilian Forest (also did that one first..) but I guess thats my fault for not changing the difficulty (only realised I could do that near the end ^^) Except for when I rescued the queen after killing Arl Howe, that lady fighter was hardcore.
Anyways, the addon "Awakening" has just been released, I'm contemplating getting it, anyone already played it, good/bad impressions?
Awakening is worth getting imo, even tho it's priced like a full game.
DA:A has as much content as many stand alone games have with RPGs nowindays and provides plenty of fun for the buck. The problem it runs into is that it will be compared to Origins which will make it looks worse by comparison.
As far as specifics, the story isn't terrible, but at the same time the antagonist is kinda meh. They did a good job of setting up a reasonable enemy that wasn't so powerful it made you feel like the blight was a waste of time.
Combat remains the same, and battles for the most part aren't as dynamic as those in DA:O but a large reason for this is how fucking overpowered everyone is. The new abilities the classes get, as well as the new specalizations, make most all classes walking armies. Rogues got even more powerful, archers became a force, and warriors are now AOE gods. The mage changes were more meh.
The companions are all the same except for one from the original game + Show Spoiler +
oghren
. Anders is what Alistair should of been. Justice is a lot of fun. The rest are ok.
Honestly, the items didnt' get much better in this game. FYI, a lot of DLC from Origins will NOT transfer to Awakening. Namely the starfang weapons and the dragon armor will not transfer so if you transfer that character over he will be naked to start the game. However, items from Return to Ostagar will transfer.
For the most part, even tho you can go up to lvl 35 (I assume, i stopped at like 33), I found myself using almost entirely the same weapons. There is an amazing dagger you can buy (i forget where, one of the few vendors in the game) and some good swords, but it's hard to say they are better than what you could get in Origins. The only weapons that are better are the SUPER hard to get ones from doing the quests master Wade gives you.
On the other hand, one thing this game does provide is sweet armor. There are like 4-5 new sets of armor which not only look awesome but have great stats.
Overall the game is worth getting as it adds an interesting twist to the lore of the series as well as gives you more time kicking ass, even if the only time you see your old teammates is in short scenes.
I have a little rant about Dragon Age I'd like to get some discussion from, if anyone is interested. It's a little wall of text, but I thought it was interesting as it related to many other dialogue driven games as well.
So I'm roughly 12 hours into Dragon Age right now, and I think it's a fantastic game. I'm probably going to run through it several more times, and it'll probably take me all summer. Though I have this gripe with it and I wanted to know if anyone else felt like it was fair criticism.
Bioware has always been believed that an RPG should be about you, the player taking a real role as a character both in the story and gameplay, and shaping events, relationships, and the world around you. Several of the developers have even claimed that RPGs who do not offer these aspects shouldn't even be called RPGs.
Fair enough, after all -- the conversational game play, moral dilemmas, and consequences in Dragon Age are a large part in why it's so enjoyable. But has anyone else noticed how forced this philosophy is in Dragon Age and previous Bioware games? I'll explain.
Early on in Dragon Age, regardless of your character's origin, you are largely the one that needs to prove himself in the beginning. After doing so, you meet the Grey Wardens and its more experienced members who guide you into becoming one of them. However, when the main quest truly begins, your veteran companion, Alistar, admits that he isn't comfortable being in a leadership position and would be more comfortable following your orders. This is a pretty powerful decision, but it's an obvious tool that Bioware used to get you to be the center of attention for a game that requires it.
And that's fine. Although that sounds forced, it's not an issue as they made it somewhat believable with their often excellent writing. The problem is what comes as a result.
You are traveling with a party of companions. These party members were not willing to join your adventure until you both accepted each others personalities, goals, and values. It's a very well done element and creates a real sense of the role playing immersion that Bioware so often talks about. However, after they are in your party, they take a significantly downward dip into becoming nothing but talking statues.
For example, an early party member I recruited was a girl named Leliana. She joined my party because she noticed the compassion and mercy I displayed, and also because her religion guided her to help me take on the evil of the land. She was strong willed, compassionate, and I looked forward to uncovering what she'd bring to my party. I enjoyed these types of situations in the game a great deal. Now, as I'd come across more moral dilemmas during quests and interactions with other NPCs, the rest of my party would often chime in their own advice, opinion, or reaction to my choices -- as real characters should. Awesome.
But has anyone noticed that the characters actually don't do anything? If I do something god awful or despicably evil, sure enough a character like Leliana is going to be highly offended and tell me she disapproves. And of course I'll gain or lose points of favor afterward. But never has a character within my party raised a finger against me. And who am I? According to my story I was just some commoner Dwarf rogue who's a fairly green member of the Grey Wardens and still uncertain of the cultures around him. Hell, I wouldn't even accomplish anything by myself in combat. And yet when I decide to kill a child in cold blood, my most pious and good willing party member who Bioware dedicated a great back story to, can only say, "I can't believe you did such a thing!"
Talk about a huge break of immersion.
Why am I some all powerful god of decision making? It's been a decade of these games where you're just this untouchable force. How am I supposed to believe I'm with other characters when all they can do is give me approval/disapproval. Does anyone else realize how much more amazing these situations could be if after making a decision, Leliana goes through a powerful dialogue and points her bow at my face, leaves my party, and gets me banned from local chantries?
How about a hug or something after doing something great? My god, any sort of animation would be reassuring that I'm an actual being in this amazing well thought up world.
Like I said, it's still a fantastic game, and I personally love it. But does anyone else think it's about time we get an update on this tried and true dialogue system? It's been far too long.
On June 07 2010 16:36 eMbrace wrote: I have a little rant about Dragon Age I'd like to get some discussion from, if anyone is interested. It's a little wall of text, but I thought it was interesting as it related to many other dialogue driven games as well.
So I'm roughly 12 hours into Dragon Age right now, and I think it's a fantastic game. I'm probably going to run through it several more times, and it'll probably take me all summer. Though I have this gripe with it and I wanted to know if anyone else felt like it was fair criticism.
Bioware has always been believed that an RPG should be about you, the player taking a real role as a character both in the story and gameplay, and shaping events, relationships, and the world around you. Several of the developers have even claimed that RPGs who do not offer these aspects shouldn't even be called RPGs.
Fair enough, after all -- the conversational game play, moral dilemmas, and consequences in Dragon Age are a large part in why it's so enjoyable. But has anyone else noticed how forced this philosophy is in Dragon Age and previous Bioware games? I'll explain.
Early on in Dragon Age, regardless of your character's origin, you are largely the one that needs to prove himself in the beginning. After doing so, you meet the Grey Wardens and its more experienced members who guide you into becoming one of them. However, when the main quest truly begins, your veteran companion, Alistar, admits that he isn't comfortable being in a leadership position and would be more comfortable following your orders. This is a pretty powerful decision, but it's an obvious tool that Bioware used to get you to be the center of attention for a game that requires it.
And that's fine. Although that sounds forced, it's not an issue as they made it somewhat believable with their often excellent writing. The problem is what comes as a result.
You are traveling with a party of companions. These party members were not willing to join your adventure until you both accepted each others personalities, goals, and values. It's a very well done element and creates a real sense of the role playing immersion that Bioware so often talks about. However, after they are in your party, they take a significantly downward dip into becoming nothing but talking statues.
For example, an early party member I recruited was a girl named Leliana. She joined my party because she noticed the compassion and mercy I displayed, and also because her religion guided her to help me take on the evil of the land. She was strong willed, compassionate, and I looked forward to uncovering what she'd bring to my party. I enjoyed these types of situations in the game a great deal. Now, as I'd come across more moral dilemmas during quests and interactions with other NPCs, the rest of my party would often chime in their own advice, opinion, or reaction to my choices -- as real characters should. Awesome.
But has anyone noticed that the characters actually don't do anything? If I do something god awful or despicably evil, sure enough a character like Leliana is going to be highly offended and tell me she disapproves. And of course I'll gain or lose points of favor afterward. But never has a character within my party raised a finger against me. And who am I? According to my story I was just some commoner Dwarf rogue who's a fairly green member of the Grey Wardens and still uncertain of the cultures around him. Hell, I wouldn't even accomplish anything by myself in combat. And yet when I decide to kill a child in cold blood, my most pious and good willing party member who Bioware dedicated a great back story to, can only say, "I can't believe you did such a thing!"
Talk about a huge break of immersion.
Why am I some all powerful god of decision making? It's been a decade of these games where you're just this untouchable force. How am I supposed to believe I'm with other characters when all they can do is give me approval/disapproval. Does anyone else realize how much more amazing these situations could be if after making a decision, Leliana goes through a powerful dialogue and points her bow at my face, leaves my party, and gets me banned from local chantries?
How about a hug or something after doing something great? My god, any sort of animation would be reassuring that I'm an actual being in this amazing well thought up world.
Like I said, it's still a fantastic game, and I personally love it. But does anyone else think it's about time we get an update on this tried and true dialogue system? It's been far too long.
I can definitely relate to those complaints. I have bigger complaints with the game myself, but every issue I have with dragon age, I have with almost all RPGs.
I just feel like most RPGs try to sell themselves as something they aren't. The illusion of non-linearity (if they stopped trying to sell it like it wasn't linear, then I got np) accompanied by the never ending Chain O' Quests really kill it for me. But maybe it's just because I've played 100 of em and I'm getting older. Sort of like the mystery novel enthusiest who has read so many that nothing is suprising, or new, and instead becomes almost mechanical.
That isn't to say that Dragon Age isn't my favorite RPG since BG2
It's a question about balancing immersion and gameplay. Also, since you've played 12hours you might not have gotten to some of the good dialogue stuff though. Like the romances, like a party member challenging you for leadership of the group, members leaving the group, potential members being killed etc. Won't go into specifics... but that sounds like some of what you're looking for^^
I like this game i've played quite a bit but it crashes to the desktop often so I quit playing it. Apperently the fix is to roll back to older catalysts drivers and that's just bs imo
On June 07 2010 16:36 eMbrace wrote: I have a little rant about Dragon Age I'd like to get some discussion from, if anyone is interested. It's a little wall of text, but I thought it was interesting as it related to many other dialogue driven games as well.
So I'm roughly 12 hours into Dragon Age right now, and I think it's a fantastic game. I'm probably going to run through it several more times, and it'll probably take me all summer. Though I have this gripe with it and I wanted to know if anyone else felt like it was fair criticism.
Bioware has always been believed that an RPG should be about you, the player taking a real role as a character both in the story and gameplay, and shaping events, relationships, and the world around you. Several of the developers have even claimed that RPGs who do not offer these aspects shouldn't even be called RPGs.
Fair enough, after all -- the conversational game play, moral dilemmas, and consequences in Dragon Age are a large part in why it's so enjoyable. But has anyone else noticed how forced this philosophy is in Dragon Age and previous Bioware games? I'll explain.
Early on in Dragon Age, regardless of your character's origin, you are largely the one that needs to prove himself in the beginning. After doing so, you meet the Grey Wardens and its more experienced members who guide you into becoming one of them. However, when the main quest truly begins, your veteran companion, Alistar, admits that he isn't comfortable being in a leadership position and would be more comfortable following your orders. This is a pretty powerful decision, but it's an obvious tool that Bioware used to get you to be the center of attention for a game that requires it.
And that's fine. Although that sounds forced, it's not an issue as they made it somewhat believable with their often excellent writing. The problem is what comes as a result.
You are traveling with a party of companions. These party members were not willing to join your adventure until you both accepted each others personalities, goals, and values. It's a very well done element and creates a real sense of the role playing immersion that Bioware so often talks about. However, after they are in your party, they take a significantly downward dip into becoming nothing but talking statues.
For example, an early party member I recruited was a girl named Leliana. She joined my party because she noticed the compassion and mercy I displayed, and also because her religion guided her to help me take on the evil of the land. She was strong willed, compassionate, and I looked forward to uncovering what she'd bring to my party. I enjoyed these types of situations in the game a great deal. Now, as I'd come across more moral dilemmas during quests and interactions with other NPCs, the rest of my party would often chime in their own advice, opinion, or reaction to my choices -- as real characters should. Awesome.
But has anyone noticed that the characters actually don't do anything? If I do something god awful or despicably evil, sure enough a character like Leliana is going to be highly offended and tell me she disapproves. And of course I'll gain or lose points of favor afterward. But never has a character within my party raised a finger against me. And who am I? According to my story I was just some commoner Dwarf rogue who's a fairly green member of the Grey Wardens and still uncertain of the cultures around him. Hell, I wouldn't even accomplish anything by myself in combat. And yet when I decide to kill a child in cold blood, my most pious and good willing party member who Bioware dedicated a great back story to, can only say, "I can't believe you did such a thing!"
Talk about a huge break of immersion.
Why am I some all powerful god of decision making? It's been a decade of these games where you're just this untouchable force. How am I supposed to believe I'm with other characters when all they can do is give me approval/disapproval. Does anyone else realize how much more amazing these situations could be if after making a decision, Leliana goes through a powerful dialogue and points her bow at my face, leaves my party, and gets me banned from local chantries?
How about a hug or something after doing something great? My god, any sort of animation would be reassuring that I'm an actual being in this amazing well thought up world.
Like I said, it's still a fantastic game, and I personally love it. But does anyone else think it's about time we get an update on this tried and true dialogue system? It's been far too long.
As much as i like your rant, Leiliana would never do as you mentioned. She blindly trusts her dream about the maker and follows you along as you ally with werewolves, but if you take your evil to another level and let demons roam the world and finally upon defiling andrastes ashes. She and Wrynne betrays you / leaves you'r party.
Morrigan if you dont accept her deal, leaves your party to never return. same with Shale, if you bring her when you go to the dwarves, if you want to preserve the forge you will need to kill shale in addition to the boss.
I think thats just about it, Sten blindly follows you about because he considers himself dead already, Morrigan just wants to hump you, Zevran is poor so he appreciates living in general regardless of whom you kill.
yea its not consistent and some times confusing, such as morrigan approving every action that spites someone while dissproving of saveing redcliffe, i mean wtf. YEA ID LIKE TO DISADVANTAGE MYSELF by killing off my human allies with nothing to gain.
On June 07 2010 16:36 eMbrace wrote: I have a little rant about Dragon Age I'd like to get some discussion from, if anyone is interested. It's a little wall of text, but I thought it was interesting as it related to many other dialogue driven games as well.
So I'm roughly 12 hours into Dragon Age right now, and I think it's a fantastic game. I'm probably going to run through it several more times, and it'll probably take me all summer. Though I have this gripe with it and I wanted to know if anyone else felt like it was fair criticism.
Bioware has always been believed that an RPG should be about you, the player taking a real role as a character both in the story and gameplay, and shaping events, relationships, and the world around you. Several of the developers have even claimed that RPGs who do not offer these aspects shouldn't even be called RPGs.
Fair enough, after all -- the conversational game play, moral dilemmas, and consequences in Dragon Age are a large part in why it's so enjoyable. But has anyone else noticed how forced this philosophy is in Dragon Age and previous Bioware games? I'll explain.
Early on in Dragon Age, regardless of your character's origin, you are largely the one that needs to prove himself in the beginning. After doing so, you meet the Grey Wardens and its more experienced members who guide you into becoming one of them. However, when the main quest truly begins, your veteran companion, Alistar, admits that he isn't comfortable being in a leadership position and would be more comfortable following your orders. This is a pretty powerful decision, but it's an obvious tool that Bioware used to get you to be the center of attention for a game that requires it.
And that's fine. Although that sounds forced, it's not an issue as they made it somewhat believable with their often excellent writing. The problem is what comes as a result.
You are traveling with a party of companions. These party members were not willing to join your adventure until you both accepted each others personalities, goals, and values. It's a very well done element and creates a real sense of the role playing immersion that Bioware so often talks about. However, after they are in your party, they take a significantly downward dip into becoming nothing but talking statues.
For example, an early party member I recruited was a girl named Leliana. She joined my party because she noticed the compassion and mercy I displayed, and also because her religion guided her to help me take on the evil of the land. She was strong willed, compassionate, and I looked forward to uncovering what she'd bring to my party. I enjoyed these types of situations in the game a great deal. Now, as I'd come across more moral dilemmas during quests and interactions with other NPCs, the rest of my party would often chime in their own advice, opinion, or reaction to my choices -- as real characters should. Awesome.
But has anyone noticed that the characters actually don't do anything? If I do something god awful or despicably evil, sure enough a character like Leliana is going to be highly offended and tell me she disapproves. And of course I'll gain or lose points of favor afterward. But never has a character within my party raised a finger against me. And who am I? According to my story I was just some commoner Dwarf rogue who's a fairly green member of the Grey Wardens and still uncertain of the cultures around him. Hell, I wouldn't even accomplish anything by myself in combat. And yet when I decide to kill a child in cold blood, my most pious and good willing party member who Bioware dedicated a great back story to, can only say, "I can't believe you did such a thing!"
Talk about a huge break of immersion.
Why am I some all powerful god of decision making? It's been a decade of these games where you're just this untouchable force. How am I supposed to believe I'm with other characters when all they can do is give me approval/disapproval. Does anyone else realize how much more amazing these situations could be if after making a decision, Leliana goes through a powerful dialogue and points her bow at my face, leaves my party, and gets me banned from local chantries?
How about a hug or something after doing something great? My god, any sort of animation would be reassuring that I'm an actual being in this amazing well thought up world.
Like I said, it's still a fantastic game, and I personally love it. But does anyone else think it's about time we get an update on this tried and true dialogue system? It's been far too long.
As much as i like your rant, Leiliana would never do as you mentioned. She blindly trusts her dream about the maker and follows you along as you ally with werewolves, but if you take your evil to another level and let demons roam the world and finally upon defiling andrastes ashes. She and Wrynne betrays you / leaves you'r party.
Morrigan if you dont accept her deal, leaves your party to never return. same with Shale, if you bring her when you go to the dwarves, if you want to preserve the forge you will need to kill shale in addition to the boss.
I think thats just about it, Sten blindly follows you about because he considers himself dead already, Morrigan just wants to hump you, Zevran is poor so he appreciates living in general regardless of whom you kill.
yea its not consistent and some times confusing, such as morrigan approving every action that spites someone while dissproving of saveing redcliffe, i mean wtf. YEA ID LIKE TO DISADVANTAGE MYSELF by killing off my human allies with nothing to gain.
haha. I was trying not to spoil, but since that's not important I guess.. If you talk to Sten about the archdemon early on he'll fight you. Alistair will leave if you spare loghain. If oghren has a low approval you have to fight him. Can even finish him off if you want (I've killed everyone, lol^^)
So I finished Awakening twice last month and was pretty disappointed. It's still a good game but very short and easy. However, compared to Origins, it's roughly 70% of the price and my game time was 30% of what it was in Origins. I believe I clocked in 71 and 66 hours respectively on both my Origins characters. It was around 22 and 16 in Awakening. Not to mention I did a lot less reloading in Awakening because it was too easy.
Bioware made archers way too powerful in Awakening. Spirit warrior archers with mage and rogue (bard) support are just godly.
thanks for the responses guys, i am obviously not too far into the game yet so i'm only discussing what has bothered me so far in the conversations.
i'm glad to hear things get a bit more dynamic down the road. i'm not asking for anything dramatic, but if a character would once in a while intervene or show some sort of reaction besides "I don't approve", I think it'd help the game a great deal
On June 08 2010 05:13 andrewlt wrote: So I finished Awakening twice last month and was pretty disappointed. It's still a good game but very short and easy. However, compared to Origins, it's roughly 70% of the price and my game time was 30% of what it was in Origins. I believe I clocked in 71 and 66 hours respectively on both my Origins characters. It was around 22 and 16 in Awakening. Not to mention I did a lot less reloading in Awakening because it was too easy.
Bioware made archers way too powerful in Awakening. Spirit warrior archers with mage and rogue (bard) support are just godly.
thats the whole point of awakening, you killed the archdemon and now your wadeing along in the scraps plucking up flees and doing what you want with it. what i disliked with Awakening was the constant "HAHHAH you fell into our TRAP."
and then you proceed to whip out some ubr pwnage in your undergarnments. Heck most of your old guys arent there with you, and that was the most dissapointing with it. Zevran for instance, wtf he swore to be by my side i even romanced him on my dwarf female noble, Dualwielding, Reaver, spirit warrior called MEGATRON ;D
and i mean comon, i killed Alistair and all i got for support by Loghain was a crappy axe. ;//
im thankful for the dlc, didnt buy the darkspawn one but yea awakening if you view it as a small dlc campain ultimately worth the money.
And the manual of focus they introduced in Awakening just proves how terrible a stat willpower is. It seems the whole purpose of the stat is a way for Bioware to waste points on your companions to artificially weaken them.
I apologize for the bump. I've been looking for this in other parts of the web but couldn't find it.
Does anyone have a save of their character right before the High Dragon?
With the announcement of Dragon Age 2, I decided to come back to modding. Unfortunately, I had deleted all my backup saves, and all the backups that I had uploaded were already expired.
I can test other combat mechanics, looks, and skills just fine. But I just cannot test any "vs massive boss" mechanics for my mods without spending another day going to the High Dragon encounter.
I want to finish my modding before I play through the entire game and DLCs one final time... Rather than spending time going through parts of the game that I know I'll go through again.
Can anyone upload their save game just before the High Dragon fight?
I don't care about the character background/gender/race/companions. I just need a save for me to test vs massive boss mechanics and forced deathblow mechanics for my coming mod.
Your help will be sincerely appreciated.
just zip the documents/bioware/dragon age/characters/charactername folder for me... that would be really great...
Edit: someone awesome in the DA forums agreed to do it for me.
On June 07 2010 19:30 Patriot.dlk wrote: I like this game i've played quite a bit but it crashes to the desktop often so I quit playing it. Apperently the fix is to roll back to older catalysts drivers and that's just bs imo
i have a nvidia chip and it still crashes for me every 2-3 hours or so overall a great game but alot of bugs in it
i would have preferred a more linear experience (in regard to main quests) with no scaled monsters , i kind of like going back to areas you struggled with and just steamrolling them now you are higher level
On June 08 2010 06:25 eMbrace wrote: thanks for the responses guys, i am obviously not too far into the game yet so i'm only discussing what has bothered me so far in the conversations.
i'm glad to hear things get a bit more dynamic down the road. i'm not asking for anything dramatic, but if a character would once in a while intervene or show some sort of reaction besides "I don't approve", I think it'd help the game a great deal
I don't know if this would be spoiling you or not now, but suffice to say there are a number of moments in the OC where your companions will leave you or outright attack you should you make certain choices.
On September 18 2010 11:26 DannyJ wrote: I found DAO really disappointing. I'm not sure why it has such a strong following.
Yeah, i was the biggest bioware fanboy being a baldur's gate 2 fanatic (seriously played through that game + throne of bhaal at least a dozen times with a dozen different mods) and I found dragon age really meh. When I accidentally stumbled onto the sex scene with the witch I shut the game down and permanently uninstalled it, that was the last straw.
I was playing an all-nightmare runthrough (except for the Proving battle, that shit is impossible) and I saved so much that it went past the apparent 500 save limit... so I had my first 499 saves then my current one, and when I happened to go back to another save to see if I had missed a treasure chest and saved on that older save file......
On September 18 2010 11:26 DannyJ wrote: I found DAO really disappointing. I'm not sure why it has such a strong following.
Yeah, i was the biggest bioware fanboy being a baldur's gate 2 fanatic (seriously played through that game + throne of bhaal at least a dozen times with a dozen different mods) and I found dragon age really meh. When I accidentally stumbled onto the sex scene with the witch I shut the game down and permanently uninstalled it, that was the last straw.
On September 18 2010 11:26 DannyJ wrote: I found DAO really disappointing. I'm not sure why it has such a strong following.
Yeah, i was the biggest bioware fanboy being a baldur's gate 2 fanatic (seriously played through that game + throne of bhaal at least a dozen times with a dozen different mods) and I found dragon age really meh. When I accidentally stumbled onto the sex scene with the witch I shut the game down and permanently uninstalled it, that was the last straw.
This seems like a really random sentiment. So, because your character could become romantically involved with another... that made it unplayable? Or because it was a poorly done romance scene? I'm not quite sure what the complaint is unless it has something to do with cooties.
DAO was a solid game. The combat was interesting but a little too long at times. The story was solid enough to keep me entertained, although I felt the overall world wasn't overly interesting when compared to other western RPG's. I'm looking forward to #2 to see how they iron out some of the problems and expand the game. Judging from how much was improved (game play wise) from ME1 to ME2 I have faith in Bioware to make the sequel even better.
On September 18 2010 11:26 DannyJ wrote: I found DAO really disappointing. I'm not sure why it has such a strong following.
Yeah, i was the biggest bioware fanboy being a baldur's gate 2 fanatic (seriously played through that game + throne of bhaal at least a dozen times with a dozen different mods) and I found dragon age really meh. When I accidentally stumbled onto the sex scene with the witch I shut the game down and permanently uninstalled it, that was the last straw.
DAO was a solid game. The combat was interesting but a little too long at times. The story was solid enough to keep me entertained, although I felt the overall world wasn't overly interesting when compared to other western RPG's. I'm looking forward to #2 to see how they iron out some of the problems and expand the game. Judging from how much was improved (game play wise) from ME1 to ME2 I have faith in Bioware to make the sequel even better.
Yeah i found the world of DAO pretty ho hum. I also think the fact that my own character didn't talk really took away from the experience. Every conversation my character just looked like some brain dead mute.
I agree too, that DAO2 could be a great game. Even though i didn't like the first one, it definitely had a good foundation.
On September 18 2010 11:26 DannyJ wrote: I found DAO really disappointing. I'm not sure why it has such a strong following.
Yeah, i was the biggest bioware fanboy being a baldur's gate 2 fanatic (seriously played through that game + throne of bhaal at least a dozen times with a dozen different mods) and I found dragon age really meh. When I accidentally stumbled onto the sex scene with the witch I shut the game down and permanently uninstalled it, that was the last straw.
Really? I'm sure you haven't used some real mods. :p
On September 18 2010 11:26 DannyJ wrote: I found DAO really disappointing. I'm not sure why it has such a strong following.
I agree. I was a BG fanboy and I played Dragon Age with pretty high expectations. That game is so damn linear. It gives the illusion of freedom and choice, except...not really. I spend more time on thinking what gear combination looks shinier and prettier than actual combat tactic or chewing over the storyline.
I completed Dragon Age all the way to the invasion of the capital city and stopped right there. Seriously, I just can't find the motivation to play it anymore. It was a waste of time for me.
I am playing Oblivion now. It's way better after mass modding.
On September 18 2010 11:26 DannyJ wrote: I found DAO really disappointing. I'm not sure why it has such a strong following.
I agree. I was a BG fanboy and I played Dragon Age with pretty high expectations. That game is so damn linear. It gives the illusion of freedom and choice, except...not really. I spend more time on thinking what gear combination looks shinier and prettier than actual combat tactic or chewing over the storyline.
I completed Dragon Age all the way to the invasion of the capital city and stopped right there. Seriously, I just can't find the motivation to play it anymore. It was a waste of time for me.
I am playing Oblivion now. It's way better after mass modding.
My major problem with Dragon Age was really the story. It didn't really interest me in the slightest. I've consumed most Bioware Games the day they came out and loved all of them (especially from KOTOR onward) but this game was just somehow boring. the ending also sucked superbly in my opinion. I still finished the game though, and did a reasonable amount of sidequesting and doing stuff, but somehow since the story was kind of lame, I never had any desire to completely discover the world, as the boring story also somehow ruined the setting for me.
It actually started out REALLY good. when you came to [the castle which name I already forgot since it's been a few months since I finished the game] and got into those cinematic talking sequences, where there's a lot of dynamic things going on in each conversation and you're walking around during it etc, I was really impressed by it. But soon after, it became the standard "stand in one spot and see the camera switch between two faces while you choose one of several obvious dialogue choices".
and since the setting bored the hell out of me (hell, they killed of the most interesting character right in the freaking beginning!) I didn't really have any drive to go through all dialogue options etc.
The interface also somehow pissed me off. It seemed overly complicated by today's standards. The idea of tactics was totally awesome and I couldn't wait to fiddle around with it, but the way you actually implement your tactics is absolutely horrible: choosing an endless amount of options in an endless amount of lists. This really is not necessary. They shouldn't make it any less complex, but they should make it less complicated. those are 2 different things. The tactics system was clearly the latter.
Then you browsed through an endless list of generic weapons and armors when you were in your inventory. You also got lists of lists of random items where you won't ever find out what use item XY has anyways, with weapons and armors having stats upon stats which never get explained. Then instead of just having enemies drop their stuff outright you have to click every corpse to get the items.... and so forth.
There would be a lot more to bitch about when it comes to the interface. It really was quite horrible.
The graphics.. well most things looked beautifully designed and I understand when they say that they didn't spend as much money on graphics etc. because they wanted the story to come first, but in the end it really looked a bit ugly. Mass Effect 1 looked better and that game is a few years older.
I also absolutely hated the pacing of the quests (basically they're giving u the illusion of a pretty open world by basically giving you a checklist of stuff you have to do and you can decide the order in which you do it) and some of the quests themselves... I mean wtf at that area in the mage guild tower, that was just horrible. You walked around in a horrible labyrinth while you had to transform into random creatures to use abilites. Sooo bad. And most areas where you were it was like this: Run around and walk into random traps of enemies etc. until you find the right way / key etc.
I don't even want to start talking about the crappy skills. Too many skills which do the same thing, the interface doesn't help that either.
In my opinion the game was soooo overhyped. Everybody talked like it was the best RPG they've ever played when in fact it was just mediocre. Bioware can do soo much better than this.
I found it better than Kotor 1 (slightly) and better than Kotor 2. But i'm really not into the Jedi stuff, not at all... It doesn't compare to BG2 or PS:T.
Dragon Age is like Baldurs Gate *light* (very light). If you never played BG2 (or PS:T) you might think that you can do lots of stuff in this game and have tons of options at every step... If you have played BG2 you just see what have could been and get kinda angry over the wasted potential .
Some parts of the game i loved... The Wood, Redcliff and Dwarven Quest areas were (very) good, sadly the fighting system won't ever let you have the same exciting fights as you had in BG2. Just imagine these areas with some more *BG2* in it, i would have fallen in love instantly... But there are no Lichs, higher Demons and stuff like this which will just wtfpwn you if your not prepared for them... It's just "Undead/Darkspawn/Cultists, which are all esentially the same + flavor enemie of the Quest-Area. Endless waves of the same enemies again and again (the Wood was a little better iirc, until you entered the Tomb) and after all the big Quests are done, what shows up? More standart Darkspawn which just fall over as soon as you touch them...
Or the fight against the Archdemon... First of all, it's just a Dragon (you probably allready defeated 2 big Dragons) with some darkspawn spawning (iirc)... THATS NOT HOW YOU DO THE LAST FIGHT IN A GAME.
What this game lacks the most, in my opinion, is fights to remember against enemies you will remember (there are a few exceptions like the Broodmother). But are there any enemies that just show up at a seemingly random location and are actually really dangerous to you? It just does not happen in this game, it just doesn't...
To me it seemed like this game made nearly everything *good* but nothing was really outstanding. Alltogether it's probably the best group/tactics based RPG of the last few years... But the last few years were horrible when it comes to group/tactics based RPG's...
The Setting was... "ok/meh"... I rather don't have such a clear cut goal to achieve but int he end this does not make or break a game.
I must agree with the previous poster (2 up) Half my time was spent seeing which armor looked better, which was shinyer. There really was not many options for gear, THere was XXX item tier 1 to 7, therre was YYYY item tier 1 to 7, and the only change was a mild color difference. There was just no options. Coupled with the very linear story line, the terrible map system (Who wants to get into random encounters 100x before you get to the other end of the map) The zones themselves were very strict, and as previously said, linear. Half way through the game All i wanted to do is hear the end of the story, and this was after a 8 month hiatus of not playing after release. I got to Denever (sp?), had to same some woman, did that, and called it quits. I bought the Awakening expansion a few months back during the steam sale and i must say, i'll probably never play it. It's a good game, but I feel they cut themselves short.
I somehow have to agree with the posts befor me I don't know how many times I played throught BGII, but I stopped playing Dragon Age somewhere in the game it just doesn't feel like BGII, it's hard to describe, but I really think that the graphics is a big part of it. 3D thing just takes away to much things. You can't be so detailed as in 2D. I somewhere read an article, which said that throught the change from 2D->3D it's nearlly impossible to put in these little details as in BGII unless you have a ridiculous amount of memory space. And the 2D thing isn't necessarily a bad thing, as you are free to imagine what's going on (it's sounds kind of strange to phrase it like this, but I when I have my white dressed elf mage, without a face, it has a more shaped face in my mind, than if I can zoom in in 3D).
As others stated befor, in BGII, there seemed to be endlees different spells, and therefor endless battle tactics. And it was ridiculously hard, honestly this gaxx guy, I don't know how often I had to reload to beat him, and I had high lvl chars, good gear and I am no noob in any means, though I am no hardcore expert in RPG.
Maybe it's just because I am older now and not so much into computert games any more, if you compare it to my fanatism in my younger years. I can still remember playing the tutorial with this purpel clothed mage, I think it was Eleaster, or goddamn I don't know his name any more, but it was soo awesome. Or fighting down this red dragon, Firkarag (misspelled for sure, but who cares).
I want to add that I played IWD, NWN (the magic system based on the new edition thing, was imo bad and I didn't like it as much as the BGII) and KOTR (which was pretty good. being a jedi is awesome, but you couldn't get more powerful as in BGII and the one dimensional weapon upgrades, lack in the fighting system was pretty boring. I really wanted to be this melee jedi fighter, you get unbeatable later on in the game, evil jedi grandmaster...sooo powerful).
IWD was just hack an slash, I quit the game after I first fought a Dragon, it were fucking multiple (two or three? or even four!?) dragons. How lame is that? I want to fight single dragons not a whole army. At this point I was pretty pissed, because I had to fight like 20 or 30 monsters several times. Trying so hard to make the game hard pfftt..put one big ass, monster, that would be much more reward to kill it not one thousand little ones, who bring you down over time, that's boring.
My point of view of this topics, random thoguths and w/e. As the one before, I want BGIII
The thing aboud IWD 1 and 2 was, (i only played 2).
They were like BG2 strapped of everything that made BG2 TRULY great and focused on the fighting... And it still was a good game (not outstanding or anything).
Try this with Dragon Age and it would become a very boring and alltogether horrible game. There are just not enough options in DA, be it in the fighting system or the *rest*. It's just not as good.
Really, i don't know which one is better... Neverwinter Nights 2 or Dragon Age... I probably would rather replay NWN2 because it actually gave you choices to handle some things differently (but had a horrible graphics-engine and the endless fighitng in the Ork-Mountains keeps me from ever playing it again ^^...). Actually the more i think of the 2 games.... I'm sure that NWN2 in DA's engine would be the better game.
im surprised there is so much hate on DAO... it has been easily my favorite RPG to date, and inbefroe the insults i've played all the BG's + Oblivion... not the older morrowind games though
On September 21 2010 21:39 Velr wrote: In whcih aspect do you think DA:O is better than Baldurs Gate 2, except for meaningless banther with your NPC's?
i felt like i developed a connection with my characters, i cared what happened to them and how their stories turned out, didnt have that in BG
On September 21 2010 21:39 Velr wrote: In whcih aspect do you think DA:O is better than Baldurs Gate 2, except for meaningless banther with your NPC's?
i felt like i developed a connection with my characters, i cared what happened to them and how their stories turned out, didnt have that in BG
Alright, Dragon Age has more banter options with your companions, not to mention the voice acting. HOWEVER, Dragon Age's romance SUCKS! Baldur Gate II's romance makes you feel like you earned her love through epic numbers of dialogue, many of which could terminate your relationship due to a slip of tongue. What happens in Dragon Age? Why, it's the act of gift giving. You find a bunch of gifts, give them to her and you get the girl in bed. Why don't we get a nudity mod while we are at it? Nice.
Morrigan got nothing on Viconia.
Oh, one more thing I hated. With rare exceptions such as Korcari Wild and maybe the Forest, the map is so damn linear and enclosed. There is no open field combat or open land exploration. All the fights are forced and happen in enclosed areas. I fricking hated that. Korcari Wild, which is like part of the introduction, is arguably the best section of the entire Dragon Age map.
Yes, this may be a sign that I played too much Asian (MMO)RPG.
How important is micro in this game anyway? I swear if I have to kite like a pro to beat the game I might as well go back to play starcraft. I don't feel like playing a try-hard game.
I dunno, with some AI mods, you set up proper tactics and then hop on one of your characters and fight shit. Like automating a healer wasn't all that difficult IIRC. I just sat on my arcane caster to make things blow while the rest of the party automagically tanked and healed stuff. Oh and I think the thief was out there running into traps in combat, but who cares, it's not like I needed the dmg from her.
On March 08 2013 15:19 ddrddrddrddr wrote: Press space, give commands, press space, watch the magic happen, then press space again. This can be played a lot like a turn based game.
On March 08 2013 15:19 ddrddrddrddr wrote: Press space, give commands, press space, watch the magic happen, then press space again. This can be played a lot like a turn based game.
Oh what the fuck you can pause in battles?
Yes and it's an absolute necessity on higher difficulty levels. Makes for fun tactical battles, though not as epic as the ones in BG series.
On March 08 2013 15:19 ddrddrddrddr wrote: Press space, give commands, press space, watch the magic happen, then press space again. This can be played a lot like a turn based game.
Oh what the fuck you can pause in battles?
Sometimes, the tutorials and manuals exist for a reason :p don't burn me if there was no tutorials in this game, I can't remember anymore. Mainly what I remember was the feeling I get from any Elder Scrolls game, you really, really don't play them for an awesome combat experience.
Does this game get better later? So far really not impressed at all. Granted this is probably not really my type of game, but for $7.50 on Steam and all the rave reviews I figured I'd give it a shot.
I don't mind that the combat and areas are extremely linear and on rails, but I thought the story would be more open than this. Doesn't really seem to matter what dialogue I pick, the story seems to be forced on rails. Pick one dialogue option, and if another is important, another NPC will pick it for you, or the NPC you are talking with will freely offer it to you. Some parts seem copypasted directly from The Witcher 2 (Loghain betraying the king, and the cutscene in Denerim) and overall just hilariously clique and lame.
Pretty fucking terrible game tbh. What sub-genre is this considered (so I can completely avoid them in the future- not really even worth the 7.50 I paid for it lol)?
On April 28 2013 04:02 screamingpalm wrote: Does this game get better later? So far really not impressed at all. Granted this is probably not really my type of game, but for $7.50 on Steam and all the rave reviews I figured I'd give it a shot.
I don't mind that it is extremely linear and on rails, but I thought the story would be more open than this. Doesn't really seem to matter what dialogue I pick, the story seems to be forced on rails. Pick on dialogue option, and if another is important, another NPC will pick it for you, or the NPC you are talking with will freely offer it to you. Some parts seem copypasted directly from The Witcher 2 (Loghain betraying the king, and the cutscene in Denerim) and overall just hilariously clique and lame.
Pretty fucking terrible game tbh. What sub-genre is this considered (so I can completely avoid them in the future- not really even worth the 7.50 I paid for it lol)?
uh why did you think any of it was copypasted from witcher 2 when dragon age origins was released like 2 years previous to it?
On April 28 2013 04:02 screamingpalm wrote: Does this game get better later? So far really not impressed at all. Granted this is probably not really my type of game, but for $7.50 on Steam and all the rave reviews I figured I'd give it a shot.
I don't mind that it is extremely linear and on rails, but I thought the story would be more open than this. Doesn't really seem to matter what dialogue I pick, the story seems to be forced on rails. Pick on dialogue option, and if another is important, another NPC will pick it for you, or the NPC you are talking with will freely offer it to you. Some parts seem copypasted directly from The Witcher 2 (Loghain betraying the king, and the cutscene in Denerim) and overall just hilariously clique and lame.
Pretty fucking terrible game tbh. What sub-genre is this considered (so I can completely avoid them in the future- not really even worth the 7.50 I paid for it lol)?
uh why did you think any of it was copypasted from witcher 2 when dragon age origins was released like 2 years previous to it?
Ah fair enough, perhaps the other way around then. Point freely withdrawn. :D
Considering it was released a full 2 years before the witcher 2, i'd say it was copied itself.
The game (after the initial chapters) opens up and you can do events in any order you so please, with multiple endings for each one, tons of sidequests in each city with multiple choice endings for those too (well, some of the time, some arent so fleshed out but alot of them are)
Theres a huge well of information to be found out about your followers, you can fuck them or make them hate you and unlock sidequests for those too + Show Spoiler +
(You can eventually get morrigans mother instead of morrigan if you please, for example)
If you havent played the game beyond Loghains betrayal and the small town just after it, you havent really played the game at all.
Basically everything following that is multiple choice and there is depth to everything if you can be bothered, you could easily complete the game without ever doing some of the awesome storylines of your followers or multiple choice long sidequests for example.
In other words, you havent played the game alot and your talking out of your ass with that witcher comment.
On April 28 2013 04:13 screamingpalm wrote: Alright thanks, I'll give it a little longer then. I want to give it a fair go at least.
The game is mass effect/kotor but with swords. Weakest of those 3 series imo, dragon age2 is even worse! Pretty sure you are wasting your time if you don't like it after 20 minutes or so, but the game should be worth it if you like mass effect and kotor!
I actually kindof like the combat- more accurately the "tactics" for party members. Ironically though, I don't play the game the way it was intended. I play only the main character and use tactics for the others in real time (no pausing). I guess I prefer either turn-based or real time and not a hybrid pausable real time. Playing on Hard difficulty, so not sure how far I can get playing this way. :D
So what type of RPG is this considered? Do these narrative-based RPG's have a defining sub-genre?
On April 28 2013 04:13 screamingpalm wrote: Alright thanks, I'll give it a little longer then. I want to give it a fair go at least.
The game is mass effect/kotor but with swords. Weakest of those 3 series imo, dragon age2 is even worse! Pretty sure you are wasting your time if you don't like it after 20 minutes or so, but the game should be worth it if you like mass effect and kotor!
This.
Dragon Age/ME are both incredibly overrated, and DA is by far the inferior of the two. If you're really looking for a quality RPG, don't get into DA.
DA2 really gets more flak than it deserves, and I know why it is: the storyline is linear and no matter what the player does, nothing effects it. The gameplay is superior in some respects, the voice acting is amazing, and the characters are still pretty great. The monotony of fighting on the same maps and the wave structure of 90% of the fights combined with the aforementioned storyline make it worse than its predecessor, but better than most of the RPG shit at the time.
On April 28 2013 05:05 Iorveth wrote: Stupid? Dragon Age: Origins is by far the best RPG of the last 5 years. And its 10x times better than Mass Effect.
dunno about that. for the story/telling part i think me2 easily was better (didnt play me1/3), DA story(and characters) are mostly really boring. for combat it very well might be but not that much better then lets say drakensang or similars if you fancy oldschool rulebased turn combat(drakensang made me atleast play through it) for the rollplay part id list skyrim over most others since true rollplay demands options and freedom, something all the others just fail at.
/my view might be biased since the overhype of DA as a successor to BG series made me maybe expect much more then it ever intended to be
^ Aye I tend to feel the same. NWN is still probably my favorite RPG. The player-made mods were more interesting stories than what these "professional" writers come up with imo. It was like a high quality canvas which allowed for so much creativity, art, and expression.
Not that I'm against being able to bang a witch, I'm down with sticky witchy as much as the next guy, just that I'm getting old and have had plenty tail IRL... just doesn't fill a void for me when I have a witch anytime I want. :D
It's a rather bland MMO for a grinder who loves to cruise through MMOs. For the RPG vet you'll find things you love and some things you hate, but you're forced to interact with most of the game. The sidequests range from walk in the park to spending more time paused than playing just to manage your poultices just right.
It's fun in the sense that for the first play through, the somewhat predictable plot does bring you through some visually gratifying scenarios with some humor if you look hard enough.
You can still enjoy DA more than once, but I recommend plenty of room in between so that you don't find yourself bored too quickly.
DA 1 was good, combat was refreshingly difficult save unless you've built some of the 'broken' combos, but pacing was pretty bad. DA2 was a bit more 'action-y' than DA1, and though there are some valid complaints, I personally enjoyed it more. The plot was interesting in that while the major plot elements happened regardless of your involvement, you still had some leeway to make your mark, that and Varus was awesome.
On April 28 2013 04:02 screamingpalm wrote: Pretty fucking terrible game tbh. What sub-genre is this considered (so I can completely avoid them in the future- not really even worth the 7.50 I paid for it lol)?
On April 28 2013 04:02 screamingpalm wrote: Pretty fucking terrible game tbh. What sub-genre is this considered (so I can completely avoid them in the future- not really even worth the 7.50 I paid for it lol)?
Bioware game published by EA lol.
:D
Was hoping there was a label or category, like Arpg, Crpg, Jrpg, etc lol.
Trying to have an open mind, but so far not impressed (probably just not my cup of tea- and why I ask). I didn't like The Witcher 2 either, for example...
There are also lots of armor and body mods on the nexus that you may be interested in picking up. There was one other quest mod that I absolutely loved that had 3 extra dungeons in it with some incredibly well made boss battles but I can't find it anymore, it has either been discontinued or absorbed by quests and legends. Hope you enjoy, DA:O is one of my favorite games.
^Thanks man, I can't really complain of the visuals/graphics... I'm playing with everything cranked up and looks fine (aside from the lack of animations, such as NWN which were awesome). I think it is just the claustrophobia I have with this type of linear game. Maybe I could try some of the other mods that add some depth. Cheers.
i dunno, after playing around with skyrim the way I see it, DA was just the mid way point to the consolization of RPGs. It was fun because its Baldur's Gate heritage was visible, even if they continued the shameful tradition of cutting down on NPCs party members(why bother have them at all? especially if you are going to hire Claudia Black to be the voice of one!) but I find its focused story was actually more enjoyable than a total sand box like Skyrim (hello, I am Dragon Born, head manager of the Shadowthieves guild, the Assassination Group, the Mage Guild and Imperial Officer. As you can see, I have many fingers in many pies but I still get two shoted by a random hoodlum because while they cant afford armor they can afford deadric arrows because scaled leveling lets us pretend that some spells/abilities arent broken) but for 7.50 its a great deal and once you get past the kind of longish introduction -- basically until after you leave that first village -- its pretty fun. And no bear is going to randomly kill your level 20 warrior if you arent looking.
DA:O is in the Top3 Games of all-time. You guys have no idea what you are talking about. You are probably one of these Casual-Call of Duty Kiddies who never played a Old-School RPG before.
On April 28 2013 18:02 Iorveth wrote: DA:O is in the Top3 Games of all-time. You guys have no idea what you are talking about. You are probably one of these Casual-Call of Duty Kiddies who never played a Old-School RPG before.
Top games of all-time... well it is not, but it definitly is in the top 5 of the last 5 years for me.
On April 28 2013 08:47 Obsidian wrote: DA 1 was good, combat was refreshingly difficult save unless you've built some of the 'broken' combos, but pacing was pretty bad. DA2 was a bit more 'action-y' than DA1, and though there are some valid complaints, I personally enjoyed it more. The plot was interesting in that while the major plot elements happened regardless of your involvement, you still had some leeway to make your mark, that and Varus was awesome.
DA2 ugh... battles were artificially difficult due to how they just kept adding in waves of enemies rather than actually difficult enemies it was so stupid
On April 28 2013 18:02 Iorveth wrote: DA:O is in the Top3 Games of all-time. You guys have no idea what you are talking about. You are probably one of these Casual-Call of Duty Kiddies who never played a Old-School RPG before.
Top games of all-time... well it is not, but it definitly is in the top 5 of the last 5 years for me.
DA2 in the other hand...
Yeah probably not one of the greatest of all time, but definitely a bioware classic.
On April 28 2013 18:41 Ramong wrote: Makes me worried about DA3, if that ever arrives
DA3 already has ~3x the development time that DA2 had...
I'm looking forward to it. DA2 plotline was quite interesting, it was mainly game mechanic issues that kind of killed it. I'm expecting that Bioware can learn from their mistakes and make a great DA3 ^^
On April 28 2013 18:02 Iorveth wrote: DA:O is in the Top3 Games of all-time. You guys have no idea what you are talking about. You are probably one of these Casual-Call of Duty Kiddies who never played a Old-School RPG before.
cant tell if serious...
the only list where DAO shows up in would be topx RPG with semi tactical combat in last few years and that only cause almost nothing else like that was made since ages. its a ok-good game but nothing special, def no topX rpg game and in NO POSSIBLE WAY a even top50 overall game.
and for that "cod kiddy" part... -its usually exactly those "kids" that overhype DAO cause the dont know the glory of BG/ps:t and IWD/NWN etc
-wanna discuss viconias loveline? dakkons motives and character? or maybe the imbaness of a kensaimage?
-im registered here for longer then most dao players have pubic hair, dont call me "kiddy" kid.
I still have mild hopes that they make a decent(atleast worth checking out) DA3 . they know how much hate they got for DA2 and i think they know that they cant pull a ME with this. so maybe just maybe theyll focus on the right things this time instead of a lazy money grab.
On April 28 2013 18:02 Iorveth wrote: DA:O is in the Top3 Games of all-time. You guys have no idea what you are talking about. You are probably one of these Casual-Call of Duty Kiddies who never played a Old-School RPG before.
Might want to be careful tossing around crap like this, some people here might have been registered longer on TL than some have been old enough to play games...
On April 28 2013 18:02 Iorveth wrote: DA:O is in the Top3 Games of all-time. You guys have no idea what you are talking about. You are probably one of these Casual-Call of Duty Kiddies who never played a Old-School RPG before.
cant tell if serious...
the only list where DAO shows up in would be topx RPG with semi tactical combat in last few years and that only cause almost nothing else like that was made since ages. its a ok-good game but nothing special, def no topX rpg game and in NO POSSIBLE WAY a even top50 overall game.
and for that "cod kiddy" part... -its usually exactly those "kids" that overhype DAO cause the dont know the glory of BG/ps:t and IWD/NWN etc
-wanna discuss viconias loveline? dakkons motives and character? or maybe the imbaness of a kensaimage?
-im registered here for longer then most dao players have pubic hair, dont call me "kiddy" kid.
I still have mild hopes that they make a decent(atleast worth checking out) DA3 . they know how much hate they got for DA2 and i think they know that they cant pull a ME with this. so maybe just maybe theyll focus on the right things this time instead of a lazy money grab.
Fresse du Spast! Geh wieder deine Kiddy-Games in 640x480 zocken.
Just to reply to the part of the...argument? from Iorveth that was not pure incoherent insults in german for no reason whatsoever, there are actually very fine Widescreen mods for Infinity Engine games. So you can easily play BG, PS:T etc.. in 1920:1080 or any other modern resolutions, and interestingly enough they actually scale very well to that resolution due to the way they are made. Definitively something to be recommended to those RPG fans who are to young to have played them back then. There are frequently cheap sales of those, too.
DA:O is one of the best(at least out of AAA titles) RPGs in the recent years.
You can't really compare it to the older rpgs like BG because it's just a different era of gaming right now. Combat was pretty good, if you played it on nightmare the fights werent all that easy unless you abused certain spells like FF and that living-bomb type of spell etc.
It's not a top RPG ofc, but it's still good considering what we've been getting these last few years.
It's not a top RPG ofc, but it's still good considering what we've been getting these last few years.
thats the thing that still confuses me. outside of voiceacting (which for me is optional but i know many dont want to go without) you could make a really great game for quite little money , atleast for todays standarts. little risk and while it wont sell 5m it wouldnt have to.
btw on da3, did anyone hear anything about it in recent times? last i heared was ages ago where they claimed they are really far and all cool but journalists said they didnt have shit. from what i know since then there only was silence.
It's not a top RPG ofc, but it's still good considering what we've been getting these last few years.
thats the thing that still confuses me. outside of voiceacting (which for me is optional but i know many dont want to go without) you could make a really great game for quite little money , atleast for todays standarts. little risk and while it wont sell 5m it wouldnt have to.
btw on da3, did anyone hear anything about it in recent times? last i heared was ages ago where they claimed they are really far and all cool but journalists said they didnt have shit. from what i know since then there only was silence.
Currently there are like 4 kickstarter funded CRPG games in production using just that logic. Costs don't ramp up in the same way if you are happy to make a great game instead of a AAA game.
I personally look forward to Project Eternity the most but we'll know which are good or bad as they start releasing.
I don't think I ever posted my opinion of DA, it is a pretty fun game. I don't know what it was lacking but it was certainly something.
Open letter from Dragon Age 3 Executive Producer Mark Darrah said:
The next game will be called Dragon Age III: Inquisition. We won't be talking about the story of the game today. Though you can make some guesses from the title. This game is being made by a lot of the same team that has been working on Dragon Age since Dragon Age: Origins. It's composed of both experienced BioWare veterans and talented new developers. We are working on a new engine which we believe will allow us to deliver a more expansive world, better visuals, more reactivity to player choices, and more customization. At PAX East, we talked about armor and followers… Yeah, that kind of customization. We've started with Frostbite 2 from DICE as a foundation to accomplish this.
So they are developing an entirely new engine for the game to run on, obviously not going to be a quick build like crappy DA2. Hopefully it is as expansive a world as DA:O, if not even more so. The entire letter can be read here: http://dragonage.bioware.com/inquisition/
On April 28 2013 13:59 OoFuzer wrote: any way to get the game cheaper with all DLC?
Well, Steam just had the "Ultimate" edition on sale (base game + Awakening expansion + all DLC) for $7.50.
Not available on my region
Ah sorry about that, not sure how those sales work, but figured I throw that out there so you know what's possible (?). Not sure how the inner belly of marketing and retail works though.
On April 28 2013 23:13 Andr3 wrote: DA:O is one of the best(at least out of AAA titles) RPGs in the recent years.
You can't really compare it to the older rpgs like BG because it's just a different era of gaming right now. Combat was pretty good, if you played it on nightmare the fights werent all that easy unless you abused certain spells like FF and that living-bomb type of spell etc.
It's not a top RPG ofc, but it's still good considering what we've been getting these last few years.
Good points, and tbh I'm not really left feeling wanting for an RPG. NWN has enough content to last me the rest of 2 or 3 lifetimes really. Makes me wonder how many of those "premium modules" Bioware was able to sell considering how much better the player made modules were- and the near-infinite quantity lol. Probably the top reason we won't ever see another NWN unfortunately. Might be kindof cool if an HD version was released though... all I could really want is a slight graphics upgrade even though I still like the graphics for the most part. Would probably never happen but I can pipedream...
Even Gamespy dropping service to NWN hasn't mattered. The NWN community never ceasing to amaze, bypassed it entirely with a player made server list of their own and basically said we don't NEED you at all lol. Nothing can prevent determined nerds from playing their beloved NWN.
Since i never played NWN could you elaborate on what i need to buy and how i get my hands on those player moduls? I am kinda itching to play a good rpg game.
On April 29 2013 10:10 Teejing wrote: Since i never played NWN could you elaborate on what i need to buy and how i get my hands on those player moduls? I am kinda itching to play a good rpg game.
Not sure about the best place to buy it as I've had the game for ages and has a permanent place on my PC and every PC. Fairly sure you can get the collection for cheap these days though.
For player made content, the first thing you will want is the Community Expansion Pack- a massive effort that added a ton to the base game. For other player made modules, worlds/stories etc, there is NWN Vault which contains thousands and thousands of them, pretty much something there for every style from hack and slash to adult and narrative based stories and persistent worlds. They are rated by the community and there is a Hall of Fame for the most highly regarded ones. Many server based persistent worlds are also available to download here, such as my personal fav- World of Greyhawk (very old school D&D modules faithfully reproduced). So you can either play it multiplayer over IP or download it and play locally- or even over LAN with a friend or three.
Character building is extremely deep and complex. This isn't just clicking a button here. You can seriously put in as much time and thought into building a character as patience allows. They seriously don't make 'em like this anymore. This is a good site for character builds, some proven some not and all in different ways (some excel in low-magic worlds, others in high-magic, pve or pvp, etc etc). There have been groups dedicated to min-maxing and testing over the years and this is an example of those years of theorycrafting and testing:
On April 28 2013 04:02 screamingpalm wrote: Pretty fucking terrible game tbh. What sub-genre is this considered (so I can completely avoid them in the future- not really even worth the 7.50 I paid for it lol)?
Bioware game published by EA lol.
:D
Was hoping there was a label or category, like Arpg, Crpg, Jrpg, etc lol.
Trying to have an open mind, but so far not impressed (probably just not my cup of tea- and why I ask). I didn't like The Witcher 2 either, for example...
It's an EArpg. The original was a decent Crpg. The expansion and the second one were rushed pieces of crap.
Pfff, DA:O engine was fine. Just add classes, better RPG elements (spells, classes etc) and spend time/money writing a decent story for once. And its still EA of course.
Disapointment incoming.
(I rate DA:O as being good, not extraordinary but decent. Let's hope they at least reach this level).
EPT
4 more daysz
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