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On November 11 2009 07:50 noClue wrote:Kiting is pretty lame lol. That boss you encounter when you assault the tower in the beginning was extremely easy. Being on nightmare and the first boss you really encounter, it was an eye opener to see that enemies can get a 1 hit KO skill. If no one has seen it, the boss picks up your character and starts punching you into his fist. On nightmare that pretty much kills your character. So after I lost that character I just grabbed the character he was targeting and did circles with it. Whenever he switched targets I would run that character around lol. So it's very obvious that with any melee enemy stuff like this sort of breaks the game. You can pretty much beat every melee boss without taking any damage. I know though, I don't kite so it's not really an issue but it's still something poorly thought through. I agree with Yango. They should have implemented some kind of weight system with armor. However this would just make casual traveling painful, so they could've done it for just when you enter combat. I would have liked to see more depth to the game. The game also needs secret paths. The game... needs a lot... it's good yeah but it's just not there yet. That's why we have modders tho  . In time the game might end up getting a lot of mods. I don't know if this is correct but I went and got Juggernaut armor for my Arcane/Blood Mage, an this awesome axe. My mage does more base damage than my warrior and rogue in melee. Not to mention that all the damage I take is reduced to 1. Only bosses and little mini-bosses hit for like 10+. I just doubt... my mage is supposed to be doing that kind of damage haha. I will stand and say this, Arcane/Blood Mage is OP lol. I don't care what anyone says, it's the most solid and strongest setup in the game.
I think the problem with that is, if not for kiting, how exactly are you going to kill something which just 1-shots your characters. As lame as kiting is, if a melee mob chases your caster and you couldn't peel it off with your tank, you're either running or dying.
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I'm a little disappointed with this game.
Bioware claims it's a spiritual successor to BGII but I don't agree. There aren't nearly as many spells or opportunities for customization, the amount of dialogue is extremely tedious and most of the time felt completely unnecessary, and the combat feels less strategic and more like just controlling a couple characters in an MMORPG. The graphics also aren't as pretty as I've come to expect with games.
Not being able to force locks is also a pain. The only reason I could think of for keeping rogues in my party was compulsively feeling like I needed to open them, though this is not the case as there is rarely anything worthwhile in them; usually potions or crafting items that make potions.
The dungeon design was pretty cool but over all I'm having a hard time getting into it. Anyone else?
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United States47024 Posts
On November 11 2009 07:54 andrewlt wrote:
Not really. There's only too much they can do without making it too close to a full-blown action game or make people pause way more than they already do.
Well, from the point of view of someone who wishes there were autopause options like in IE games, I can't say that's a bad thing. 
Silly selfish ideas aside, I can concede that controlling multiple characters mid-movement would probably be more unwieldy than is practical, particularly for consoles, which don't have mouse-and-keyboard setups to help micro all your guys.
On November 11 2009 07:54 andrewlt wrote:
But no, since Mr. Uberleet console kiddie can beat dumbed down console RPGs, that means normal isn't balanced if he's having trouble with them. Because beating console RPGs makes Mr. Uberleet such a good gamer, right? Uh, no. Those idiots should just drop to easy and stop complaining.
Actually, if you screen out the blatant trolling and idiocy, there are some legitimate complaints. The difficulty feels really inconsistent at times (you can sometimes get wide difficulty fluctuations between areas), and part of this seems to be because Bioware had an implicit order in which the areas should be done, and that's not imparted to people in any way.
Question: I've heard rumors that combat is easier in the console version of the game. Can anyone confirm or deny?
As a side note, the Missing Manual has been an interesting resource for me. Puts numbers and stats in places where I like seeing numbers and stats (e.g. how the Attack stat actually translates into hit chance).
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pretty much. Rogue does very nice DPS though. Just let it target the same monster as the tank with momentum active and ocationally position him for backstabs.
Has anyone tested out haste + momentum? It doesnt seem to stack, but im not 100% sure. I got haste for nohitng ... Oh and does getting more spells in the same school raise your effectiveness of using that school's magic? I see the bar go up by the name of the school but I dont know what that signifies
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United States47024 Posts
On November 11 2009 08:07 Sinensis wrote:
Bioware claims it's a spiritual successor to BGII but I don't agree. There aren't nearly as many spells or opportunities for customization
While I agree with your other points, I feel like this one needs to be addressed, because I don't agree. People seem to forget how little customization 2nd Edition D&D offered. After 1st level and before epic abilities come into play, the ONLY customization of character abilities you get on level up are weapon proficiencies and thief skills. Stat points + talent per level is more customization than 2nd Edition D&D (though less than 3rd, but 3rd also has it's own issues in other regards). As far as spell diversity goes, you have to keep in mind that there are way more similar-but-identical spells in 2nd Edition D&D (e.g. the entire Spell Turning line of spells is effectively the same, but increasing in power at each new one). There are less spells in Dragon Age, but the ones that exist are more relevantly different (and power scaling is handled by the scaling of your magic stat).
On November 11 2009 08:17 gameguard wrote:
Has anyone tested out haste + momentum? It doesnt seem to stack, but im not 100% sure. I got haste for nohitng ... Oh and does getting more spells in the same school raise your effectiveness of using that school's magic? I see the bar go up by the name of the school but I dont know what that signifies
It's an option in the toolset, but not enabled in the final game (e.g. people will have the choice of enabling it via mods and stuff.
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upon further testing, haste actually seems to override momentum. Momentum's bonus is greater so you are actually losing speed and getting the to hit penalty. Thats stupid.
edit:
I just found out that you can un-enchant weapons wtf. All this time i have been lugging around good runes to save for good weapons or not enchanting good weapons to see if i can find better runes.
on a side note that enchanter kid is my favorite character in the game.
Enchantment? .. Enchantment!
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Show nested quote +On November 11 2009 07:54 andrewlt wrote:
But no, since Mr. Uberleet console kiddie can beat dumbed down console RPGs, that means normal isn't balanced if he's having trouble with them. Because beating console RPGs makes Mr. Uberleet such a good gamer, right? Uh, no. Those idiots should just drop to easy and stop complaining. Actually, if you screen out the blatant trolling and idiocy, there are some legitimate complaints. The difficulty feels really inconsistent at times (you can sometimes get wide difficulty fluctuations between areas), and part of this seems to be because Bioware had an implicit order in which the areas should be done, and that's not imparted to people in any way. Question: I've heard rumors that combat is easier in the console version of the game. Can anyone confirm or deny? As a side note, the Missing Manual has been an interesting resource for me. Puts numbers and stats in places where I like seeing numbers and stats (e.g. how the Attack stat actually translates into hit chance).
Just read that Bioware article on levels. No wonder areas are so different. Though it's obvious that they don't increase difficulty by adding more abilities for the enemy or making them stronger. If you notice the "harder" areas just simply have more enemies. Which is fine I guess but once again it shows Bioware's lack of depth.
Do the other difficulties have those finisher attacks from enemies? Hard -> Easy. The first time I walked into the elven ruins werewolves jumped on all 4 of my characters and I lost lol. As far as I'm concerned the game is only difficult because of these skills. You have to be on edge. If you see a guy performing one of these little KO moves you need to hurry and bash it off or something. There are just times when the enemies chain them on the entire party...
Combat looks a lot easier in console... because it lacks in combat lol. I think they only get to hotkey 6 spells? IMO the console version was pretty dumbed down compared to PC. Just can't surpass the awesomeness of Keyboard/Mouse for games like this.
If anyones wondering about party setups. I tried a few and well...I can't say there are any superior parties. As long as you have a way to cover allies from all enemy types you're good to go. Every party setup has a way to handle every situation for the most part.
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All other considerations aside, all I really have to say is this:
Normal feels like Hard on other games, the way I have to play with precision and care to win in alot of encounters.
That's it really. Normal should feel "just right". But it's too hard right now.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 11 2009 13:00 Abyzou wrote:
Normal feels like Hard on other games, the way I have to play with precision and care to win in alot of encounters.
That's it really. Normal should feel "just right". But it's too hard right now.
Are you speaking about before or after the 1.01 patch that downscales the Normal and Easy difficulty?
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On November 11 2009 08:07 Sinensis wrote:
I'm a little disappointed with this game.
Bioware claims it's a spiritual successor to BGII but I don't agree. There aren't nearly as many spells or opportunities for customization, the amount of dialogue is extremely tedious and most of the time felt completely unnecessary, and the combat feels less strategic and more like just controlling a couple characters in an MMORPG. The graphics also aren't as pretty as I've come to expect with games.
Not being able to force locks is also a pain. The only reason I could think of for keeping rogues in my party was compulsively feeling like I needed to open them, though this is not the case as there is rarely anything worthwhile in them; usually potions or crafting items that make potions.
The dungeon design was pretty cool but over all I'm having a hard time getting into it. Anyone else?
Yeah I know how you feel. I can't really get into it either. It's just... I dunno. It just doesn't pull me in, maybe I'm jaded.
On November 11 2009 13:08 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2009 13:00 Abyzou wrote:
Normal feels like Hard on other games, the way I have to play with precision and care to win in alot of encounters.
That's it really. Normal should feel "just right". But it's too hard right now. Are you speaking about before or after the 1.01 patch that downscales the Normal and Easy difficulty?
I haven't patched it. Guess I should!
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Even Easy isn't that easy. I still get people knocked down occasionally, even in non-boss encounters.
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im playing the game in normal without major problems. i guess im like 50% through.
these are the partys, i usually use:
myself (spirit healer)
wynne (spirit healer)
alistair (templar)
morrigan (shapeshifter)
all mages have aoe spells as well as heal spells, while alistair is the tank. so let the mages stay back, pull with alistair and bomb the hell out of the enemys + heal alistair. kinda fun setup, but of course you are doomed when alistair dies.
myself (spirit healer)
alistair (templar)
leliana (bard)
shauni (wardog) - dunno why i gave him that name ^^
lelianas dmg is quite dissapointing, even though i found her a kickass bow. however, her lockpicking skills give a lot of extra experience and items.
shauni totally kicks ass. highest single target dmg in the party. pretty easy to go party. if your mainchar isnt a mage or even better spirit healer, just choose wynne and replace some other char. however i recommend you to always play the healer yourself, as a npc heals his mana away too quickly.
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If you have played Baldurs Gate 2 the difficulty of DA is something to really laugh at, even on nightmare.
BG2 was like:
What? You don't have protection spell XX up? Well... You die or retry until you are lucky with saverolls because you don't have such a spell yet (don't do the "all seeing eye" quest as your first big quest, I warn you...).
What? You cast instant death on my main char and I have to reload?...
What? These Vampires/Tentacle-Dudes/Djinns/demi-lichs/dragon kills my party members permanently? So I win the fight and still have to reload?
What? There was a trap that just eradicated me?
Uh... People would whine... People would whine really hard (and I would agree with them on some points - the whole permanent death thing was stupid).
Problem Dragon Age has, is that it's AI is pretty retarded. Most enemys follow you everywhere... Just find a comfortable place and it's like over for them, they are now in your deathtrap of overlaying Earthquake/Blizzard/Storm-whatever-AE-you have.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 12 2009 01:52 Velr wrote:
If you have played Baldurs Gate 2 the difficulty of DA is something to really laugh at, even on nightmare.
Don't quite agree with that. They're difficult in different ways. Baldur's Gate 2 was difficult as hell in certain encounters, but unless you heavily modded the game, your average on-the-road encounter with orcs or mercenaries was an absolute joke. DA's "hard" encounters are no Kangaxx or Beholder Lair, but average darkspawn encounters have a much higher chance of killing you.
On November 12 2009 01:52 Velr wrote:
Uh... People would whine... People would whine really hard (and I would agree with them on some points - the whole permanent death thing was stupid).
To be fair, it was a holdover from BG1, where it enhanced the D&D feel (since there were less permanent death effects). It works out when you have almost 30 recruitable NPCs, and a couple were fairly expendable. It's just that subsequent games had way less, so having your party members die was a big deal.
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On November 11 2009 08:14 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2009 07:54 andrewlt wrote:
But no, since Mr. Uberleet console kiddie can beat dumbed down console RPGs, that means normal isn't balanced if he's having trouble with them. Because beating console RPGs makes Mr. Uberleet such a good gamer, right? Uh, no. Those idiots should just drop to easy and stop complaining. Actually, if you screen out the blatant trolling and idiocy, there are some legitimate complaints. The difficulty feels really inconsistent at times (you can sometimes get wide difficulty fluctuations between areas), and part of this seems to be because Bioware had an implicit order in which the areas should be done, and that's not imparted to people in any way. Question: I've heard rumors that combat is easier in the console version of the game. Can anyone confirm or deny? As a side note, the Missing Manual has been an interesting resource for me. Puts numbers and stats in places where I like seeing numbers and stats (e.g. how the Attack stat actually translates into hit chance).
Yes, I love the Missing Manual as well.
I do agree that Bioware didn't give enough information to figure out where to go next after you get access to the wide open world. At least they should've given blatant hints on which ones people should go first to.
Looking at various reviews, though, the console is definitely easier combat-wise. I'm playing the PC version on normal and I refuse to install the patch for now. I reload quite a bit but the difficulty is just right for me.
Even with 2 mages and a planned second play through, I still think mages get too few spells per level, especially since Wynne and Morrigan have almost half of their spells from an entire game already predetermined when you get them.
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On November 12 2009 01:52 Velr wrote:
If you have played Baldurs Gate 2 the difficulty of DA is something to really laugh at, even on nightmare.
BG2 was like:
What? You don't have protection spell XX up? Well... You die or retry until you are lucky with saverolls because you don't have such a spell yet (don't do the "all seeing eye" quest as your first big quest, I warn you...).
What? You cast instant death on my main char and I have to reload?...
What? These Vampires/Tentacle-Dudes/Djinns/demi-lichs/dragon kills my party members permanently? So I win the fight and still have to reload?
What? There was a trap that just eradicated me?
Uh... People would whine... People would whine really hard (and I would agree with them on some points - the whole permanent death thing was stupid).
Problem Dragon Age has, is that it's AI is pretty retarded. Most enemys follow you everywhere... Just find a comfortable place and it's like over for them, they are now in your deathtrap of overlaying Earthquake/Blizzard/Storm-whatever-AE-you have.
Vanilla BG1/2 aren't really hard.
If you want a challenge you need ScS mod and if you want to cry you need tactics mod.
Now that's ridiculously hard.
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Bg2 on insane difficulty where they do 100% more damage is a bit of a pain in the ass and i'm no slouch when it comes to these games (Was in MDC back on Mplayer, if anyone remembers heh)
I've yet to try tactics mod, because it basically looks like i'll just have to full buff before every little fight and that's not hard, that's just annoying and time consuming.
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On November 12 2009 06:07 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2009 01:52 Velr wrote:
If you have played Baldurs Gate 2 the difficulty of DA is something to really laugh at, even on nightmare.
BG2 was like:
What? You don't have protection spell XX up? Well... You die or retry until you are lucky with saverolls because you don't have such a spell yet (don't do the "all seeing eye" quest as your first big quest, I warn you...).
What? You cast instant death on my main char and I have to reload?...
What? These Vampires/Tentacle-Dudes/Djinns/demi-lichs/dragon kills my party members permanently? So I win the fight and still have to reload?
What? There was a trap that just eradicated me?
Uh... People would whine... People would whine really hard (and I would agree with them on some points - the whole permanent death thing was stupid).
Problem Dragon Age has, is that it's AI is pretty retarded. Most enemys follow you everywhere... Just find a comfortable place and it's like over for them, they are now in your deathtrap of overlaying Earthquake/Blizzard/Storm-whatever-AE-you have.
Vanilla BG1/2 aren't really hard. If you want a challenge you need ScS mod and if you want to cry you need tactics mod. Now that's ridiculously hard.
Sure, but their hard encounters, especially on ToB, are generally harder than Dragon Age's hard encounters. However, the BG games have tons of throwaway encounters. Almost every encounter against unnamed mobs are easy. Dragon Age's generic encounters are more likely to kill you.
However, a lot of BG's difficult encounters lies in having to use almost every conceivable buff so they couldn't have too many of those encounters in the game. It seems like Dragon Age's encounters are a bit longer as well. DnD rules scales offense way more than defense. I'm only level 7-8 on Dragon Age so far, but I hope defense scales as well as offense making fights roughly the same length they do now.
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On November 12 2009 06:24 Nebula wrote:
I've yet to try tactics mod, because it basically looks like i'll just have to full buff before every little fight and that's not hard, that's just annoying and time consuming.
I guess that won't be enough to beat the first level.
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On November 12 2009 02:08 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2009 01:52 Velr wrote:
If you have played Baldurs Gate 2 the difficulty of DA is something to really laugh at, even on nightmare. Don't quite agree with that. They're difficult in different ways. Baldur's Gate 2 was difficult as hell in certain encounters, but unless you heavily modded the game, your average on-the-road encounter with orcs or mercenaries was an absolute joke. DA's "hard" encounters are no Kangaxx or Beholder Lair, but average darkspawn encounters have a much higher chance of killing you. Show nested quote +On November 12 2009 01:52 Velr wrote:
Uh... People would whine... People would whine really hard (and I would agree with them on some points - the whole permanent death thing was stupid). To be fair, it was a holdover from BG1, where it enhanced the D&D feel (since there were less permanent death effects). It works out when you have almost 30 recruitable NPCs, and a couple were fairly expendable. It's just that subsequent games had way less, so having your party members die was a big deal.
I think it's way better the way BG2 was. I don't know about you guys, but RPG to me used to mean role-playing game. What part of a role-play has characters die and then just get up again? That's not realistic at all. BG2 was way more fluffy. Orcs/goblins are supposed to be cannon fodder. They're not supposed to be hard. Beholders are like wtf stuff of nightmares level monsters and so they could kill you with a deathray from their eyes. The fun of roleplaying used to be getting into it and feeling like the fantasy world was real. Not asking yourself "hmm, are the fights challenging and meaningful to me on a consistent basis?" If you want that, then go play streetfighter. That's what a fighting game is. Your characters shouldn't be "respawning" or anything lame like that in an RPG, unless you have a cleric or paladin that's strong enough to call upon their god to bring the dead back to life. And that was usually the point of always wasting a party slot with a crappy cleric. They were a necessity.
Nowadays, with all these youngins raised on Diablo and WoW, the RPG genre has turned into some odd kind of level up + get phat loot experience rather than any actual RPG. Sers, getting tired of this idea that RPG means leveling up + keeping your gear. That was a side product of roleplaying as an actual character in a consistent world, not the focus like it is now.
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