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On November 30 2011 01:46 LaNague wrote:
Aion wasnt really similar to it at all. The combat system was completely different, mobs gave more xp than quests per time spend, there were non instanced group contents including contested raidmobs, instanced group content did not guarantee loot at all.
The game was pretty different and enjoyable wouldnt it be for a few crucial mistakes that completely ruined the game for everyone at the highest levels.
Rift was good and promising, but at the last minute they did a 180 and introduced global cooldown and watered down classes in fear of alienating the big WoW playerbase.
Good for correcting me. Do you or anyone else have an idea why gw2 is called "something different" ? I never played gw1 so dont really know anything from it, except that the pvp is supposed to be top notch and there is no pure healer in gw2.
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On November 29 2011 23:25 GTR wrote:
am i the only one who found the profession system in the game REALLY annoying?
Yep.
Profession system was awesome. I hope bioware develops an app for phones so we can do the professions while at work or while watching TV. I would totally pay for that
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On November 30 2011 02:39 suxN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 01:46 LaNague wrote:
Aion wasnt really similar to it at all. The combat system was completely different, mobs gave more xp than quests per time spend, there were non instanced group contents including contested raidmobs, instanced group content did not guarantee loot at all.
The game was pretty different and enjoyable wouldnt it be for a few crucial mistakes that completely ruined the game for everyone at the highest levels.
Rift was good and promising, but at the last minute they did a 180 and introduced global cooldown and watered down classes in fear of alienating the big WoW playerbase. Good for correcting me. Do you or anyone else have an idea why gw2 is called "something different" ? I never played gw1 so dont really know anything from it, except that the pvp is supposed to be top notch and there is no pure healer in gw2.
Well, no healer-tank-dps class and no auto attack feel enough to me to make something quite different in term of gameplay. But GW was always a more pvp based MMO so i can understand people not being into it.
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On November 30 2011 02:41 Orcasgt24 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 23:25 GTR wrote:
am i the only one who found the profession system in the game REALLY annoying? Yep. Profession system was awesome. I hope bioware develops an app for phones so we can do the professions while at work or while watching TV. I would totally pay for that
What was wrong with the profession system? I really enjoyed it. To just send your companion to go and do something when you didn't need her was a really cool feature. It'll be interesting when you have the full complement of companions, and to see how much shit you can get done.
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Good for correcting me. Do you or anyone else have an idea why gw2 is called "something different" ? I never played gw1 so dont really know anything from it, except that the pvp is supposed to be top notch and there is no pure healer in gw2.
Guild wars 2 is something different because...
real time random encounter globally. meaning, you run around and quest may happen depending on location, people near you, or what kind of mobs are near you in specific situation
real time action combat. you aim, you shoot, and none of those click a skill, wait for cast delay etc etc
New underwater combat, and no underwater breath gauge. You will have a sub weapon for underwater with dif skills
Weapon specific skills
No MMO trinity (dps, tank, healer), you all have healing skills individually. this makes everything much more dynamic and fun.
you can really customize your class's type by selecting which skills to use as you have limited slots.
and No longer instanced zones, it is truly an mmo now, with hella better graphics and amazing content. Im sure i missed out on a lot of things but thats all i can think of as of now
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I loved the beta. The storytelling elements are really good, and i really enjoyed the questing (first time ever in an mmo). The flashpoint system where everyone interacts in the dialogue works really well, alot better than i had anticipated.
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On November 29 2011 20:42 Iblis wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 15:20 PHILtheTANK wrote:On November 29 2011 10:38 Parnage wrote:
Played to twenty this weekend as Sith Warrior(went Juggernaut) and Imperial Agent(Sniper). I have a love hate relationship with this game.
I love Star wars, I grew up watching the films every December, reading the expanded universe novels repeatedly and playing with figures like a boss while I played Jedi Knight and X-wing vs Tie Fighter. To anyone who is a fan this game is like stepping into the best thing ever like getting to play with your action figures as a kid but better because they never had all the cool species action figures.
Having said that, it's flawed. The combat system is sluggish and awkward at times for the Agent and you find yourself out of energy spamming the basic attack even after using the cooldowns to restore energy. That's not fun. The whole system has a gcd on every ability and while you can que the ability up it just feels off. Say what you will about WoW's combat system but the gcd they use is I believe .5 second, while the SWTOR seems to be longer(again I could be wrong but I don't believe I am feel free to correct me) Even on the Sith warrior while the combat felt smoother and more polished I found myself just not feeling like the tanky character that I was supposed to be(Juggernaut is a tank/dmg) I didn't have a way to really pull aggro and while I did have crowd control effects I felt constantly zergish in groups as opposed to any tactical choices. I got a taunt far too late in leveling(I can't be a flashpoint tank if I can't actually pull targets off people).
I do admit the game can be hard even with companion. I don't see where all these people are coming from where they are able to solo all the heroic group stuff. Try soloing Friends of Old all I gotta say. Companion or not you will die I don't care what class you are. The game has an acceptable difficulty curve. I don't feel they take away from the group aspect/social interactions. The starting world heroic quests are -not- really that heroic.
My biggest gripe on this game which is both a compliment to it and annoying is that the story makes your character feel like a part of the bigger story, in Wow(even cataclysm's excellent quest system) you feel more like the soldier and not the hero unit and in this game it's the opposite. You are the hero(or bad guy), the dialogue really pulls it off well but it does it almost too well where I feel my character is no longer my own and it's really just the universes and I am just borrowing it. It's at the sametime amazingly driving to play but also alienating to the player.
Overall, if you like Star Wars, if you like Mmo's you will like this game. However you won't be converted if you don't like mmos, if you expect it to be a wow killer your wrong(the term itself being stupid), and if you think it's going to be some "hardcore"(because having quest locations on a map is ezmode instead of downloading the mod that'd pop up to show you them anyway that's hardcore) experience you will be let down.
It's..it's Kotor the mmo. Pretty much that. Just wanted to throw out there that the GCD in WoW is 1.5 seconds. But I do wish there was more "energy" or it regenned faster, although after a while i figured out that if you don't frontload your damage(as bounty hunter and smuggler at least) and put in ur "regular attack" in between your energy consuming attacks, instead of just railing off your energy attacks then regular attack till you get energy again... that it regens much much faster. It took me like the whole weekend to realize that the energy regen buff is greater the more energy(less heat) you have so you want to keep it low instead of overloading, and yes it took me that long to realize it cuz im dumb  GCD in wow are 1.5 for casters classes, and 1 second for melee classes(warrior, rogue, druid in bear/cat form...).
hmmm... unless things have changed since i quit( ~ a year ago) then only rogues have a 1 second GCD as far as i remember... I know for a fact warriors GCD was 1.5 second.
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On November 30 2011 02:48 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:Show nested quote +
Good for correcting me. Do you or anyone else have an idea why gw2 is called "something different" ? I never played gw1 so dont really know anything from it, except that the pvp is supposed to be top notch and there is no pure healer in gw2.
Guild wars 2 is something different because... real time random encounter globally. meaning, you run around and quest may happen depending on location, people near you, or what kind of mobs are near you in specific situation real time action combat. you aim, you shoot, and none of those click a skill, wait for cast delay etc etc New underwater combat, and no underwater breath gauge. You will have a sub weapon for underwater with dif skills Weapon specific skills No MMO trinity (dps, tank, healer), you all have healing skills individually. this makes everything much more dynamic and fun. you can really customize your class's type by selecting which skills to use as you have limited slots. and No longer instanced zones, it is truly an mmo now, with hella better graphics and amazing content. Im sure i missed out on a lot of things but thats all i can think of as of now
As of a few months ago when I was really checking out GW2, they were using the exact same instancing system that SWTOR uses, not sure if thats changed.
Also imo, and im sure for most actual PvPers opinions, making there be no "healing classes" is a god awful change for PvP. Completely destroys a ton of peoples playstyles. And the only reason I can see they didn't put in healing classes is so they can say they don't have the trinity.
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I don't get why people dislike the "trinity". And they are never clear on what the alternatives would be, except to make every class a generic jack-of-all-trades -- which actually will tend to make things less balanced.
Trinity roles and things like AoE and CC give classes strengths and weaknesses depending on the situation. If every class can fill every role just as well, then either every class is exactly the same, or someone is drawing the short straw and their class is simply inferior, in every situation.
Trinity exists for a reason. GCDs exist for a reason. A lot of basic MMO mechanics will stay the same for years to come, because the wheel is fine and doesn't need reinventing.
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On November 30 2011 02:45 ILIVEFORAIUR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 02:41 Orcasgt24 wrote:On November 29 2011 23:25 GTR wrote:
am i the only one who found the profession system in the game REALLY annoying? Yep. Profession system was awesome. I hope bioware develops an app for phones so we can do the professions while at work or while watching TV. I would totally pay for that What was wrong with the profession system? I really enjoyed it. To just send your companion to go and do something when you didn't need her was a really cool feature. It'll be interesting when you have the full complement of companions, and to see how much shit you can get done.
i found it really annoying.. after questing for 2h i had a shit load of mats and would have liked to turn them into something useful. i could live with that companion crafting if it only affects collecting professions, but having to send that dude 15 times on a mission so he can craft 15 pistols for me is just ridiculous. i dont really see the sense in that and tbh it made me stop lvling my professions at all.
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On November 30 2011 03:26 mawno wrote:
I loved the beta. The storytelling elements are really good, and i really enjoyed the questing (first time ever in an mmo). The flashpoint system where everyone interacts in the dialogue works really well, alot better than i had anticipated.
I have the same feeling. First time in MMO i didn't look at the XP bar non stop and waiting for level.. I had that problem when i played WoW, leveling was just incredibly boring.
Now i think i might just to buy the game for the 'storyline', since i already got my character to level 20.
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I dislike trinity because it causes most bosses to be very similiar, tank kites/pops cooldowns when boss uses cooldowns, dps takes down adds/steps out of fire, healers pop cooldowns when boss goes crazy/mana gets low. Tank and spank encounters really do suck.
Its fun when everyone has to kite around, take part on the dps, heal the ones in trouble and sometimes tank damage when avoiding it isnt an option.
I remember playing some instances with 5x dps with elemental shaman healing and it was the most fun instance i ever played in wow. Some raids with hunter were a real bore, especially when the rotation macros existed.
On a minor notice, playing pvp against triplehealer teams was usually utter bullshit. And i dont know if removing trinity causes less rock-paper-scissor setup situations.
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On November 30 2011 03:53 Leporello wrote:
I don't get why people dislike the "trinity". And they are never clear on what the alternatives would be, except to make every class a generic jack-of-all-trades -- which actually will tend to make things less balanced.
Trinity roles and things like AoE and CC give classes strengths and weaknesses depending on the situation. If every class can fill every role just as well, then either every class is exactly the same, or someone is drawing the short straw and their class is simply inferior, in every situation.
Trinity exists for a reason. GCDs exist for a reason. A lot of basic MMO mechanics will stay the same for years to come, because the wheel is fine and doesn't need reinventing.
The whole trinity vs no trinity thing is kind of silly. It's neither something that's holy, nor is doing away with it the best thing since sliced bread. What certain developers mean when they claim there is no trinity (besides "look at us, we're different!") is that they aim for a more flexible filling of roles. At the same time, a number of games who use the more classical setup are implementing more and more things to allow people to switch their spec up as well, which provides more flexibility as well. MMO players just looooove their min-maxing though, so I'm willing to bet that both approaches will yield their fair share of people dedicated to specific tasks, it's just that the trend is to allow each class more options. Which is a good thing, but certainly not something that's exclusive to a single game.
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On November 30 2011 02:48 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:Show nested quote +
Good for correcting me. Do you or anyone else have an idea why gw2 is called "something different" ? I never played gw1 so dont really know anything from it, except that the pvp is supposed to be top notch and there is no pure healer in gw2.
Guild wars 2 is something different because... real time random encounter globally. meaning, you run around and quest may happen depending on location, people near you, or what kind of mobs are near you in specific situation real time action combat. you aim, you shoot, and none of those click a skill, wait for cast delay etc etc New underwater combat, and no underwater breath gauge. You will have a sub weapon for underwater with dif skills Weapon specific skills No MMO trinity (dps, tank, healer), you all have healing skills individually. this makes everything much more dynamic and fun. you can really customize your class's type by selecting which skills to use as you have limited slots. and No longer instanced zones, it is truly an mmo now, with hella better graphics and amazing content. Im sure i missed out on a lot of things but thats all i can think of as of now
I'm not really an MMO player or anything but those features sound very boring; they're all either trivial or generic or both.
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I am just glad I don't have to reinstall the game, this last beta client will be usable at launch.
edit: Well guess not entirely true, unless you played it for the first time this past weekend.
Posted by: Stephen Reid
FAQ: if you played this weekend you do NOT need to uninstall the #SWTOR client. We are planning to patch it to Early Game Access / Live.
Posted by: Stephen Reid
If you played before this weekend we will recommend a reinstall just to clean up, but otherwise no.
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I kinda liked levelling a JK to 10, even tho it felt alot like WoW with lightsabers. The textures was kinda bad, but im hoping it was because of a beta, and they 'turned ultra off' or whatever.
But then i got to Coruscant, and that zone has almost killed the game for me. Never have i experienced such a bad level design, its a mess and the map certainly doesnt help very much. And then you get errors because you try to group with people, whos in other instances of the zone, which totally breaks the immersion. I really hope that zone doesnt represent the rest of the later zones.
Im still undecided if i should buy it. Im a massive Star Wars fan, but the game just seems so generic and bland.
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I'm not really an MMO player or anything but those features sound very boring; they're all either trivial or generic or both.
Then why are you on this thread?
None of those were really implemented in MMO before, ever. It is a revolutionary feat for an mmo, and many appreciate and look forward to it. If you haven't realized yet, it is tough to implement 'trivial or generic' elements in an mmo because mmos are so damn very different from console or single player rpg games. Often, mmo games implement things that were already developed in single player games much later on. I tihnk its self explanatory when you think about graphics even.
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On November 30 2011 02:39 suxN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 01:46 LaNague wrote:
Aion wasnt really similar to it at all. The combat system was completely different, mobs gave more xp than quests per time spend, there were non instanced group contents including contested raidmobs, instanced group content did not guarantee loot at all.
The game was pretty different and enjoyable wouldnt it be for a few crucial mistakes that completely ruined the game for everyone at the highest levels.
Rift was good and promising, but at the last minute they did a 180 and introduced global cooldown and watered down classes in fear of alienating the big WoW playerbase. Good for correcting me. Do you or anyone else have an idea why gw2 is called "something different" ? I never played gw1 so dont really know anything from it, except that the pvp is supposed to be top notch and there is no pure healer in gw2.
GW1 was basically arena PvP with hundreds of different builds for each class because there are a lot of skills per class and you can only bring a handful. Since you can earn everything useful in the game with the arena points, you could start off right at lvl 1 by joining random team vs random team pvp and work your way up to guild wars and very special arenas.
The pve in that game was all instanced and generic, i personally think most guild wars PVE players simply could not pay for a WoW subscription.
So, i personally dont get the GW2 hype at all, aside from PvP enthusiasts that had a lot of upsets with Warhammer online and Aion.
A lot of the EQ2 players i know like swtor, i am inclined to buy it to play over christmas and new year.
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On November 30 2011 05:01 Kralic wrote:
I am just glad I don't have to reinstall the game, this last beta client will be usable at launch.
Oh are you positive? Glad I haven't uninstalled the client yet then lol but I assumed it wouldn't be.
Also Age of Conan's combat wasn't generic for the person saying GW2 was the first to try not i would say AoC gets that credit and I loved the combat for AoC  .
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The Trinity is horrible because it puts reliance on far too little people, and spreads responsibility horrendously. If your guilds Main Tank doesn't show up for a raid, you can't raid. Anyone in a legit raiding guild in any time in WoW knows this for a fact -- I especially know this as I was a Main Tank. The same goes for healers. You sit around and look at charts all day healing people, and if you fuck up, at all, the ENTIRE raid suffers. If your main healer fucks up healing your main tank, the main tank dies, and those two people dying in a 25 man or 40 man raid spells doom almost instantly for the rest of the group. The same token for DPS'ers. They have almost no responsibility other than GET OUT OF THE FIRE. Sit there and do your predetermined rotations, and you're basically replaceable. If your main tank doesn't show up, the raid is done. If some rogue doesn't show up, you can just find another one.
You see the point I'm getting at here? The trinity distorts the spreading of responsibility. 3-4 people shouldn't influence success or failure 100% of the time, the entire group should. It should be a group effort with responsibility evenly spread across. So to apply this logic to GW2, despite me not really wanting to in this thread, that's what they are doing. There is no real threat system, there is no "taunt" spell, there is no targeted healing spell. Everyone has a self heal, and there are some VERY minor AoE heals (think Holy Nova in WoW for scale for how much). Everyone is responsible for themselves and their own survival, and it comes to everyone working together to succeed.
Yes, there is support. However, EVERYONE can support in different ways. The main thing they are going for, however, is making people have to proactively reduce, or stop damage from occurring to their allies instead of sitting there looking at charts and bars clicking on names and pressing Flash of Light. Now how does this work for bosses? Well, step 1 is to make every boss really god damn huge. The second step is to work on the previous notion of responsibility. Lots of AoE spells, lots of minions, lots of events going on. For instance, The Shatterer fight is people protecting the siege cannons from mobs and shit throughout the fight as the cannons, controlled by players, attack the fuck-huge dragon. All the while, ranged are shooting at its wings to keep it landed, melee are hitting at its feet (and proactively dodging its strikes) to be a nuisance and distract it, all while protecting the cannons and shit. If the cannons get taken out, the players have to retreat and escort more cannons up to the fight and continue the engagement.
It feels more epic and feels more like a "boss" fight rather than a "sit there as you smash me with your hammer and my allies surround you and spam mutilate." Instead of boss' being run of the mill, it actually feels like you are accomplishing something as a group. Everyone contributed, and everyone gets a reward depending on how much they helped.
That's just my take on the Trinity however.
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EPT
