All I know is Bioware have never let me down and I still have high hopes for this. Even games which got hate like Jade Empire and Dragon Age 2 were great, people just dismissed them after playing about fifteen minutes because they werent Baldurs Gate. I'll believe they've actually made a bad game when I see it for myself.
^Agreed. I'll believe Bioware can make a bad game when I feel a game of theirs i played was bad. Because of course good or bad for a game is all subjective. To this date I've yet to play a Bioware game that I didn't absolutely LOVE and get immersed into the story of it. I for one will be purchasing this game on release and hope I get beta access.
^ I'm with SpitFire.Jade Empire was great, and even if this is JUST a SP masqueradin as an MMO, so what?
KoToR and KoTor2 were both epic games, and the only flaw with kotor 2 was rushed development, which this one cannot be accused of. If this play exactly like that, with more support, the option of more dynamic plays (such as raids and what not) it sounds pretty cool.
^Does anyone have any other place where that video is shown. It could be cause i'm at work that it's not working but it gets like 30 secs into the vid and restarts.
On June 08 2011 23:44 TheEconomist wrote: ^ I'm with SpitFire.Jade Empire was great, and even if this is JUST a SP masqueradin as an MMO, so what?
KoToR and KoTor2 were both epic games, and the only flaw with kotor 2 was rushed development, which this one cannot be accused of. If this play exactly like that, with more support, the option of more dynamic plays (such as raids and what not) it sounds pretty cool.
The 'so what?' is paying $10-15 a month to play singleplayer. A subscription fee means you're going to want to get more than your a typical single player RPG experience.
I'm firmly in the 'gameplay is very, if not too, similar to WoW' camp. I'll give it a whirl when it comes out, but I don't expect I'll play it beyond the first free month. It's the fate of too many MMOs right now; try to capitalize on WoW's model, without taking the time to consider that its been almost 7 years since WoW's release. People want something more advanced. Everything from UO, to Everquest, to DaoC, to WoW did something really cool to the existing model. Voice-acting and dialogue choices don't feel like they're going to matter enough to catch that audience back.
Personally I'm keeping my hype level pretty low and letting it creep up just a little when new trailers and such comes out.
I've come to accept that it will have a lot of Wow properties, but no matter what they do at this point, it will draw a huge crowd at launch. Add on top of that the solid singleplayer ish experience that I know Bioware can deliver and to me it's a game that will be easy for me to get somewhat invested.
Where I think people are going a little too far is when they are starting to imagine themselves hardcore gaming it already... It's impossible to please everyone, so it's going to disappoint someone. It's easier still do disappoint a hardcore gamer because they will just consume so much content and they own pcs that just smoke any average pc specs.
On June 09 2011 00:30 Furycrab wrote: I've come to accept that it will have a lot of Wow properties, but no matter what they do at this point, it will draw a huge crowd at launch. Add on top of that the solid singleplayer ish experience that I know Bioware can deliver and to me it's a game that will be easy for me to get somewhat invested.
Where I think people are going a little too far is when they are starting to imagine themselves hardcore gaming it already... It's impossible to please everyone, so it's going to disappoint someone. It's easier still do disappoint a hardcore gamer because they will just consume so much content and they own pcs that just smoke any average pc specs.
I will definitely play it for the single player experience. After the free month I will decide if it has enough to hold my interest. If not - I bought a game for fullprice and (probably) got the same amount of entertainment from it as from a singleplayer RPG. About hardcore gaming it - how do people say that it will not be possible? Isnt that the same level of stupidity? We basically now nothing about endgame content - yes there's "PvP" - but how it's implenented nothing is known. And werent "raids" only confirmed like 3 days ago? And that's only the confimation - we still know basically nothing about them.
On June 08 2011 21:25 Fruscainte wrote: My final point I guess is Bioware doesn't really know what makes an MMO good. They are making a singleplayer RPG for multiplayer, essentially. I mean it literally looks exactly like KOTOR in terms of menu interface from what I've seen so far, the dialogue is very ME2/DA2ish, the combat is essentially KOTOR spells but with no pausing necessary, and companions. It would make a fantastic singleplayer game most likely, but as an MMO? It looks average.
So - what makes a MMO good? It seems like you know what it makes, why dont you share that knowledge with the rest of us?
On June 08 2011 23:44 TheEconomist wrote: ^ I'm with SpitFire.Jade Empire was great, and even if this is JUST a SP masqueradin as an MMO, so what?
KoToR and KoTor2 were both epic games, and the only flaw with kotor 2 was rushed development, which this one cannot be accused of. If this play exactly like that, with more support, the option of more dynamic plays (such as raids and what not) it sounds pretty cool.
The 'so what?' is paying $10-15 a month to play singleplayer. A subscription fee means you're going to want to get more than your a typical single player RPG experience.
I'm firmly in the 'gameplay is very, if not too, similar to WoW' camp. I'll give it a whirl when it comes out, but I don't expect I'll play it beyond the first free month. It's the fate of too many MMOs right now; try to capitalize on WoW's model, without taking the time to consider that its been almost 7 years since WoW's release. People want something more advanced. Everything from UO, to Everquest, to DaoC, to WoW did something really cool to the existing model. Voice-acting and dialogue choices don't feel like they're going to matter enough to catch that audience back.
I think if they are going to distinguish themselves it will probably be with the Sci-fi/Fantasy setting, the rest just feels like upgrades to the quest model Cataclysm put out, and it didn't really keep me going for very long once I hit the caps. Lazorz and spaceships are awesome though <.<.
I'll probably network some old contacts and see what happens with this game at launch, but ya, won't hold my breath for too long after the first couple of weeks if it turns out it's not quite keeping me going.
Jesus, you know the more footage they show for the game, the more Cynical I become. The combat in SW:TOR just doesn't look 'Heroic', it's flashy and tries to WOW you with the fact you can occasionally (RNG permitting) block and deflect shots/blows. That is so close to the combat in WoW that it's barely worth even mentioning it as one of the big things about SW:TOR. Add in the fact that from what I've seen of the leaked game play that the questing is your bog standard kill 15 boars with Voice acting, unfortunately the voice acting experience is over once you've accepted the quest. So you accept the quest and now the realization that you have to kill 15 boars comes over you and its...boring and repetitive.
I'm still on the fence for this game, along with GW2, the only difference is that GW2 is trying to innovate whereas SW:ToR is playing it safe. If GW2 fulfills it's manifesto vision, then there will be no competition for me, ToR will look stale in comparison, still using the same old model WoW has been using for the past 6 years.
On June 09 2011 03:20 Laids wrote: Jesus, you know the more footage they show for the game, the more Cynical I become. The combat in SW:TOR just doesn't look 'Heroic', it's flashy and tries to WOW you with the fact you can occasionally (RNG permitting) block and deflect shots/blows. That is so close to the combat in WoW that it's barely worth even mentioning it as one of the big things about SW:TOR. Add in the fact that from what I've seen of the leaked game play that the questing is your bog standard kill 15 boars with Voice acting, unfortunately the voice acting experience is over once you've accepted the quest. So you accept the quest and now the realization that you have to kill 15 boars comes over you and its...boring and repetitive.
I'm still on the fence for this game, along with GW2, the only difference is that GW2 is trying to innovate whereas SW:ToR is playing it safe. If GW2 fulfills it's manifesto vision, then there will be no competition for me, ToR will look stale in comparison, still using the same old model WoW has been using for the past 6 years.
When you get stuff out of the fridge, are you doing it in a very heroic manner? When you walk your dog, do you and your dog walk it heroically?
I don't see how heroic combat gets misconstrued into every piece of combat is "heroic". Frankly, the combat animations look smooth and well designed and it looks normal considering the gameplay video is focused on common mobs and not some character of value. But somehow people like to think [insert character from the SW universe] fought in a heroic manner all the time, because shit the drunk dude at the cantina was seriously threatening the fate of the galaxy.
Also, I am surprised at the generalizations made about the questing format already...unless you got knowledge of the entire quest database, you're really aren't in position to say things will be boring and repetitive.
For the people expecting some earth-shattering standard when a (emphasis on the a) game of this genre launches, history isn't on your side.
Edit:
Also, saying GW2 is trying to innovate when the gameplay videos of that game has shown some pro-keyboard back tracking and point-and-click casting is kind of hilarious. See? We can all generalize based on limited information.
On June 09 2011 03:20 Laids wrote: Jesus, you know the more footage they show for the game, the more Cynical I become. The combat in SW:TOR just doesn't look 'Heroic', it's flashy and tries to WOW you with the fact you can occasionally (RNG permitting) block and deflect shots/blows. That is so close to the combat in WoW that it's barely worth even mentioning it as one of the big things about SW:TOR. Add in the fact that from what I've seen of the leaked game play that the questing is your bog standard kill 15 boars with Voice acting, unfortunately the voice acting experience is over once you've accepted the quest. So you accept the quest and now the realization that you have to kill 15 boars comes over you and its...boring and repetitive.
I'm still on the fence for this game, along with GW2, the only difference is that GW2 is trying to innovate whereas SW:ToR is playing it safe. If GW2 fulfills it's manifesto vision, then there will be no competition for me, ToR will look stale in comparison, still using the same old model WoW has been using for the past 6 years.
When you get stuff out of the fridge, are you doing it in a very heroic manner? When you walk your dog, do you and your dog walk it heroically?
I don't see how heroic combat gets misconstrued into every piece of combat is "heroic". Frankly, the combat animations look smooth and well designed and it looks normal considering the gameplay video is focused on common mobs and not some character of value. But somehow people like to think [insert character from the SW universe] fought in a heroic manner all the time, because shit the drunk dude at the cantina was seriously threatening the fate of the galaxy.
Also, I am surprised at the generalizations made about the questing format already...unless you got knowledge of the entire quest database, you're really aren't in position to say things will be boring and repetitive.
For the people expecting some earth-shattering standard when a (emphasis on the a) game of this genre launches, history isn't on your side.
Edit:
Also, saying GW2 is trying to innovate when the gameplay videos of that game has shown some pro-keyboard back tracking and point-and-click casting is kind of hilarious. See? We can all generalize based on limited information.
A game doesn't have to be earth-shattering, just done well enough to where when you buy it, it's not just like you are resubscribing to WoW with a different skin. And sadly, from the videos, SW:TOR doesn't look like that.
There's really not enough information to make that claim of SWTOR = WoW clone quite yet. It wouldn't surprise me if it ends up that way, but right now only the combat *looks* like WoW's (the questing looks like every other MMO RPG in existence).
There is no doubt whatsoever that WoW set/is setting the MMO bar pretty damn high, I think we can all agree on that. So saying it "looks" like WoW really shouldn't be completely a bad thing especially since we don't know what else is in store yet.
The only real X factor that people should be worried about is how well/poorly Bioware will handle the community in the months after the launch.
The problem with having non-realtime combat which so many MMO have today is that it's usually no fun to fight. It's just TAB and 1,2,3,4,5,6, whatever ability you like to play No need for reaction speed, timing or aiming which makes you the player more involved.
But this game will sell alot anyways, cause it's Star Wars and many people will just accept the combat system to explore the wonderful world of Star Wars.
On June 09 2011 04:20 Avean wrote: The problem with having non-realtime combat which so many MMO have today is that it's usually no fun to fight. It's just TAB and 1,2,3,4,5,6, whatever ability you like to play No need for reaction speed, timing or aiming which makes you the player more involved.
But this game will sell alot anyways, cause it's Star Wars and many people will just accept the combat system to explore the wonderful world of Star Wars.
this, combat's lame unfortunately but the star wars universe is whats going to get a lot of people's interests ^^
On June 08 2011 21:25 Fruscainte wrote: My final point I guess is Bioware doesn't really know what makes an MMO good. They are making a singleplayer RPG for multiplayer, essentially. I mean it literally looks exactly like KOTOR in terms of menu interface from what I've seen so far, the dialogue is very ME2/DA2ish, the combat is essentially KOTOR spells but with no pausing necessary, and companions. It would make a fantastic singleplayer game most likely, but as an MMO? It looks average.
So - what makes a MMO good? It seems like you know what it makes, why dont you share that knowledge with the rest of us?
What makes an MMO good? Not copying old MMO's. Adding something new to the table. Being creative.
Copying your old games' dialogue system, another games combat, another games companion system, extremely outdated graphics (don't pull BAD PC LOL on me, GW2 for instance is very modern graphics and can run on 5+ year old computers easily), and clunky gameplay.
Most importantly, it has to be MULTIPLAYER. An MMO should not be a single person grind and you should not have a bunch of companions to keep you company. You should have PLAYERS to keep you company and talk to. You should have YOURSELF and REAL PEOPLE to progress your story with, not some random NPC that everyone else is romancing and progressing with.
The only real X factor that people should be worried about is how well/poorly Bioware will handle the community in the months after the launch.
Ding Ding! This guy has got it.
If it's anything like DA2's launch where they perma ban people from playing their games if they even mention not liking their glorious game, it will crash and burn faster than the Hindenburg.
I honestly don't mind if it's wow-like. What i look for in a game is either a deep, immersive story (see most bioware games), or a pretty competitive game that's really hard to play at top level (see Starcraft and to some extent Wow), and sw:tor seems to have a bit of both. This, combined with the fact that im a huge sw nerd, makes me pretty optimistic about the game.
EPT
