EPT~30min until it arrives.
I really hope it's going to look better than I remember/think. I wouldn't want to be let down again (was super pumped for SC2 too, ended up not giving a damn and not even trying it out).
Star Wars - The Old Republic - Page 10
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Manit0u
Poland17174 Posts
~30min until it arrives. I really hope it's going to look better than I remember/think. I wouldn't want to be let down again (was super pumped for SC2 too, ended up not giving a damn and not even trying it out). | ||
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
On May 31 2011 04:42 Manit0u wrote: Downloading the movies to see for myself... ~30min until it arrives. I really hope it's going to look better than I remember/think. I wouldn't want to be let down again (was super pumped for SC2 too, ended up not giving a damn and not even trying it out). I personally think it looks like shit. Pathing is terrible, it doesnt go 20 seconds without hinting at a romance, every race is just a reskinned human, combat is stale and WoW-cloneish and it's very grindy. It could be good, but it looks very stale for a game that they claimed would be the revolution in MMO games. | ||
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neohero9
United States595 Posts
On May 31 2011 04:05 Manit0u wrote: 3. I don't like the classes. I hate it that after Diablo 1 every single character class in cRPG is some speciality. I'd love to see some very basic classes, with possibility to get a prestige class later on. SW pen-and-paper RPG has 5 starting classes and a gazillion prestige classes you can develop into when you level up some and meet the requirements. That's nice as it doesn't restrict you from the get go, lets you familiarize yourself with the game before you choose to follow a certain path etc. 4. Why choose Republic/Empire at the start? Why not give people freedom to choose by supporting certain faction (doing quests for them etc.) or staying neutral? So many wasted possibilities... I mean, right now this game looks as if it's aimed at 12 year olds, when it should be aimed at: a) majority of the MMO player demographic (26-35 years old) b) people who grew up with Star Wars (as above) I don't mean outright gorefeast, twi'lek boobs all over the place and stuff like that. I mean something else than what currently looks like arcade style RPG. Not liking the graphical design is cool-- it's an art style, and it will be pleasant to some and not to others. I'm with you about how cool it would be to have a large variety of prestige classes. But there are practical reasons why class selection is as small as it is. 1) Balancing issues. We already see what Blizz, our wonderful game gods who've brought us hit after hit, has to do to try to balance the small selection of classes in WoW and races in SC2. SC2 is a little tangential because of the plethora of different units available, but you see what I mean. Even Blizz has a hard time doing it and they've been doing it for a looong time. No sense in BW biting off way more than they can chew. 2) Gear. As I see it (but I'm no designer, so bear with me) BW would be left with two choices: a variety of different gear tailored to maximize each prestige class, or class/gear homogenization. The former is a huge undertaking-- if they don't do it right, the gear at certain points will favor class X over other classes, leading to many players crying foul. Easily taken care of, perhaps, with the expansion of loot tables in order to help maximize for the other classes. The latter leaves us with a bitter taste in our mouth. 3) Television. Wasn't there an old TV show called "Eight is Enough"? I'm not sure why you think it's marketed to 12 year olds. WoW's art style is even more cartoonish and fantastical, I think. That does help to bring in the younger crowd, but doesn't necessarily turn off those of us who are grown. It may actually enhance the escapism-- stylization is kinda cool to look at. The choices one will have to make will probably bolster the numbers of the mature gamers who are interested in something beyond the visuals and making big numbers. I've played a handful of BW games in the past (Just ME, DA:O, KOTOR, I think), and I know that I've had to stop for a minute and think, "What is the right thing to do here?!?" (It should be noted that I'm a Philosophy major concentrating on moral philosophy, so I'm a little obsessed and probably not indicative of anyone else the gaming community.) If nothing else, there is a note of seriousness to BW's games, because they try so hard to establish the emotional connection and link that to the consequences of choice. It's certainly not Pokemon (just talking about it's primary demographic here). Though... a Pokemon MMO could be kinda cool. | ||
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neohero9
United States595 Posts
On May 31 2011 05:33 Fruscainte wrote: ...they claimed would be the revolution in MMO games. Why do you keep saying this? The only thing they've stated as being anything close to "revolutionary" is the storytelling. And only so called because it's never been done in this genre before. Everything else is enhancements on the already-existing standard. These two lines have been the mantra of the development since the announcement of development. Yes, I'm looking for the quote, but it's from 2008 and it's kinda hard to track down. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17174 Posts
I really don't mind there being few classes. I don't need a gazillion of them. But why the hell would they make the most interesting ones from the Force user tree (Jedi sentinel, Jedi consular, Sith assassin) use god damned double-bladed or dual-wielded lightsabers? I despise that. | ||
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neohero9
United States595 Posts
On May 31 2011 06:19 Manit0u wrote: @neohero9: I really don't mind there being few classes. I don't need a gazillion of them. But why the hell would they make the most interesting ones from the Force user tree (Jedi sentinel, Jedi consular, Sith assassin) use god damned double-bladed or dual-wielded lightsabers? I despise that. Yeah I'm not huge on the restrictions of the saber-types to certain ACs. The only ones I agree with entirely are the 'traditional' tank ACs using single sabers. I can't really see a tank using a double-bladed saber. No idea why, tho. I am really looking forward to the avoidance tank AC. Really hoping that's fun. | ||
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
On May 31 2011 05:40 neohero9 wrote: Why do you keep saying this? The only thing they've stated as being anything close to "revolutionary" is the storytelling. And only so called because it's never been done in this genre before. Look at their earliest interviews about the game "We are revolutionizing the MMO genre with our Fourth Pillar of gaming of Storytelling experience and removing the old ways of the MMO with the "Holy Trinity" I am paraphrasing almost directly what they were saying so long ago. The storytelling is nothing more than WoW quest text that has fancy voice overs with and [FLIRT] next to dialogue options and the "Holy Trinity being removed" is just them making instances 3-4 man instead of 5 man. | ||
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Macabre
United States1262 Posts
On May 31 2011 06:35 Fruscainte wrote: Look at their earliest interviews about the game "We are revolutionizing the MMO genre with our Fourth Pillar of gaming of Storytelling experience and removing the old ways of the MMO with the "Holy Trinity" I am paraphrasing almost directly what they were saying so long ago. The storytelling is nothing more than WoW quest text that has fancy voice overs with and [FLIRT] next to dialogue options and the "Holy Trinity being removed" is just them making instances 3-4 man instead of 5 man. After watching the torrents...meh TERA is where it's at. 2012. | ||
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neohero9
United States595 Posts
On May 31 2011 06:35 Fruscainte wrote: Look at their earliest interviews about the game "We are revolutionizing the MMO genre with our Fourth Pillar of gaming of Storytelling experience and removing the old ways of the MMO with the "Holy Trinity" I am paraphrasing almost directly what they were saying so long ago. The storytelling is nothing more than WoW quest text that has fancy voice overs with and [FLIRT] next to dialogue options and the "Holy Trinity being removed" is just them making instances 3-4 man instead of 5 man. Where did you find this? I've been following the game since 08, I don't remember them saying anything about removing the trinity. (Maybe this is from before they finalized all the classes?) In fact, I posted several times over there asking them to do away with it, only to have the classes revealed and my hopes in that regard dashed. And even if that is what they actually said then, and I am wrong (which I am prepared to admit), it is certainly not what they are saying now. They are definitely not trumpeting the game as revolutionary. They ARE trumpeting the storytelling/immersion as such. Believe me, it's burned into my skull because it was such a letdown for me. I wanted them to get away from the trinity, classes, specs, big bosses, etc. They're not. They've announced that they're not. EDIT: I can't find anywhere where they said they'd be throwing out the trinity. What they DID say was that emphasis on it would be lowered. | ||
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EnderCraft
United States1746 Posts
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neohero9
United States595 Posts
On May 31 2011 06:58 EnderCraft wrote: IDK if I can judge the game based on those torrents. However, it looks way too similar to WoW in its current state. I've been saying for years that if any new MMO wants to be successful, they need to start branching out from the cookie cutter WoW MMO's that keep coming out. Its the same reason why I was turned off of rift, it was a blatant WoW clone. Why can't MMO developers look to innovate like WoW did, rather then just copy the old formula... Cloning WoW is proving to be a set back for all new WoWesque MMO's. Most of them are just free to play now and haven't even put a dent on the MMO market... Innovate like WoW did? WoW certainly added and refined some things, and did so well for a long time, but at its heart it's an iteration on the theme established by EQ (which some argue was an enhancement on previous MMOs). SWTOR is doing essentially the same thing. They're taking what works, refining it, adding things people say enhance the experience, and bringing in something new (emphasis on story). Just found this little nugget from another discussion. Really says something, at least about the discussion... http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=13301 | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17174 Posts
I don't need to play and stuff, am just curious if it would install under Linux. | ||
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
On May 31 2011 06:53 neohero9 wrote: Where did you find this? I've been following the game since 08, I don't remember them saying anything about removing the trinity. (Maybe this is from before they finalized all the classes?) In fact, I posted several times over there asking them to do away with it, only to have the classes revealed and my hopes in that regard dashed. And even if that is what they actually said then, and I am wrong (which I am prepared to admit), it is certainly not what they are saying now. They are definitely not trumpeting the game as revolutionary. They ARE trumpeting the storytelling/immersion as such. Believe me, it's burned into my skull because it was such a letdown for me. I wanted them to get away from the trinity, classes, specs, big bosses, etc. They're not. They've announced that they're not. EDIT: I can't find anywhere where they said they'd be throwing out the trinity. What they DID say was that emphasis on it would be lowered. Man, this was like shortly after they did that sphick where they went onto stage in a bunch of robes and called themselves professional jedi's or some shit like that a couple of years ago. I realize they did away with the "removing the Holy Trinity" thing, but that's what they were saying from the beginning until a while ago which really got on my nerves since that was one of the things I was looking forward to. Don't take me as some blind hater of this game. I was genuinely excited for this game for a couple of years until most recently when I saw 4+ hours worth of Jedi Knight, Sith Inquisitor, and Trooper gameplay leaked from the Closed Beta or Alpha or whatever stage it's in. Someone can only hype a game so long until they have to show some gameplay of it. EDIT: Also, only one person has commentated on that gameplay. I guess most people don't want to see it  EDIT Dos: Going to stream that gameplay in about 2 1/2ish hours from now (4:00 EST) for some bros, so if you're interested, stick around. I'll make a post here when I'm starting. | ||
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Zocat
Germany2229 Posts
About holy trinity - didnt AoC try to remove it? And it failed horribly? People actually _want_ to play the healer, the tank, the debuffer, the buffer. People want to specialize. Also dont they basically remove it with the usage of companions? No healer present - use the healer companion (similiar to LotRO skirmish soldiers). On May 31 2011 06:35 Fruscainte wrote: The storytelling is nothing more than WoW quest text that has fancy voice overs with and [FLIRT] next to dialogue options But it is an improvement. Also - the end of the 1st video (the one surfaced first, not the one where he plays the sith) where he receives his light sabre - I think that is way better than what WoW has. Sure WoW has it's Wrathgate cinematic and Death of the Lich King cinematic - but those was only done twice (!) in their whole game (I never played Cataclysm, maybe they did more stuff like that). And from personal experience I can say, something like this is a lot better than WoW-style of questing / storytelling. And I hope that TOR will have tons of such situations (like the light sabre assembly). Edit: I hate that [FLIRT] shit as well  On June 01 2011 04:58 Fruscainte wrote: EDIT: Also, only one person has commentated on that gameplay. I guess most people don't want to see it Or most people already have seen it? ;P What do you want to discuss? He starts out as a typical (today) lv1 character with 1-2 abilities. He is quest grinding - typical in almost all RPGs today. Gets more abilities and the quest grind continues. If you expect(ed) something different well, good luck finding a game. Also since he streamed it and interacted with his viewers - there are tons of pauses which break the flow of the game. Walk 2-3meter. Wait. Walk 2-3meter. Wait. Look at the map for 10sec. I honestly doubt the gameflow will be similiar. Overall I think - it will be entertaining enough to justify a purchase for me as a SW semi-nerd (worst case play the leveling part as a singleplayer RPG). If it will justify a subscription I dont know. Only playing the game will help me making that decision. | ||
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neohero9
United States595 Posts
On June 01 2011 04:58 Fruscainte wrote: Man, this was like shortly after they did that sphick where they went onto stage in a bunch of robes and called themselves professional jedi's or some shit like that a couple of years ago. I realize they did away with the "removing the Holy Trinity" thing, but that's what they were saying from the beginning until a while ago which really got on my nerves since that was one of the things I was looking forward to. Don't take me as some blind hater of this game. I was genuinely excited for this game for a couple of years until most recently when I saw 4+ hours worth of Jedi Knight, Sith Inquisitor, and Trooper gameplay leaked from the Closed Beta or Alpha or whatever stage it's in. Someone can only hype a game so long until they have to show some gameplay of it. EDIT: Also, only one person has commentated on that gameplay. I guess most people don't want to see it EDIT Dos: Going to stream that gameplay in about 2 1/2ish hours from now (4:00 EST) for some bros, so if you're interested, stick around. I'll make a post here when I'm starting. I've seen those quests before, so there's nothing new brewing in my head about it. Like the guy above me said, he starts as a level 1, has 2 combat abilities, a buff, and an out-of-combat heal. Not a whole lot of buttons to press, so it's not going to be super engaging. I will say that I like the way the quests are given, and I'm really liking the combat animations. They're not all unique, but it sure beats seeing the same one melee and one special animation over and over again. The other gameplay footage looked promising to me, too. I'm not going to have a definitive opinion about it until I get a decent amount of playtime with it. Enough for my hype and "oh it's new!" feeling to go away. I'm a shill for something new and shiny. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17174 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17174 Posts
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piegasm
United States266 Posts
Why can't MMO developers look to innovate like WoW did, rather then just copy the old formula... What are you on and why aren't you sharing? WoW didn't innovate a damn thing. They took what Everquest, Ultima, etc. had done before and executed it better. It's taken them years to get on board with things like leveling guilds and achievements. The only thing WoW did that nobody had done before was to get more than a few hundred thousand people to subscribe to their game. | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17174 Posts
On June 02 2011 19:27 I_Love_Bacon wrote: That is the one problem with taking on the Star Wars IP to make an MMO... you're basically bringing in one of the most rabid fan-bases on the planet, and attempting to please them all will be next to impossible. You don't have to please them at all. For the game to be successful they only need to accomodate people who enjoyed saber-swinging in episodes 1-3 of the movies (and that's what they're aiming for, seeing how half of the available classes in the game are Force users, and each one has either dual-weilding or double-bladed lightsabers options). This way they get a gazillion of people who don't give a damn about lore, they just want to swing their lightsaber. Automatic commercial success in my opinion. Also, this way hardcore fans become the minority of the game population and can whine all they want as nobody will give a shit about it. Edit: Just check the polls on their forums, right now it seems that 60% of people are going to be some form of Jedi, 30% Soldiers and only 10% Stealthers. That's fine by me, because I wanted to roll an Imperial Agent ever since they announced this class, Operative healing specced = auto-include in every party and getting all the class loot as there won't be any competition for it while all the others are going to be rolling hardcore for their +2 Jedi boots. | ||
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