EPTGeneral RTS Discussion Thread - Page 5
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qwerty4w
53 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17399 Posts
On September 05 2025 01:11 JimmyJRaynor wrote: you can't play 2v2 with a pop cap of 200 on a machine that costs less than $3000. and when you have a $3000 machine player 2v2 you can heat your home in january with your computer. they have a 2v2 with 100 pop cap mode that can be played on a reasonable machine. there is no 3v3 or 3v3AI. UE5 can not run decent scale RTS beyond 1v1 games. You're wrong. If it would be impossible they wouldn't do a 2v2 ranked mode. And now introducing 3v3... | ||
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Jaysod
10 Posts
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qwerty4w
53 Posts
Tempest Rising has key units with special abilities called specialists. The game had pretty imbalanced multiplayer 2-3 months ago and it was mostly GDF vs GDF, it seems to be in a much better state now. I heard that the multiplayer of early StarCraft without BW was mostly Zerg spamming 2-3 types of units, Tempest Rising at launch can't be worse than that. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17399 Posts
On September 05 2025 20:41 Jaysod wrote: This might as well be 1v1, its all just a mirrored blob of units hitting each other. Just 2 blobs i guess. Is that actually the game at its full potential? Are there any special key units? It looks as boring as it gets. Crazy that people are actually talking about performance when the game looks that bad. Isn't SC2 also just 2 blobs of units hitting each other? How is that different? ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/gFruPpe.png) | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5449 Posts
BW seems to be the easiest to read (for me), except for dark swarm and occasionally air units. | ||
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qwerty4w
53 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14038 Posts
On September 05 2025 00:15 Ideas wrote: Does anyone remember World in Conflict? That game felt so innovative in the way it handled multiplayer (8v8 battles where everyone picks a "class" that gives them a certain type of units to handle). Basically turned Battlefield into a team RTS (including completely destructible terrain/buildings). I'm not saying it was perfect at all, but definitely I think an interesting way of handling RTS multiplayer that might thrive in today's market (team-based games with defined roles for each player). I also loved the way that they set WASD to move the camera around lol. I feel like 1v1 is just too off-putting to most gamers nowadays, but a team-focused RTS game could possibly find success. Of course I think indie RTS game's biggest problem is just that most of them are way too derivative and nostalgic (big problem with a lot of the indie game market). Show me something new, not just worst versions of StarCraft or CnC. The game did not age well. Oh boy do the units seem basic af. The campaign is probably the best rts campaign made tho, expecially added with the russian missions. The problem with group games like that is that it makes match finding really rough. you can easily get stuck with bad teammates and that'll ruin an hour of your life for you. BA is what I think you're looking for but the issue I think is graphics. the standard of graphics today is just way too high for all the units that are needed. BA aparently redid like 80% of its assets to remain on the standard expected of the genre. Warno and BA are both pretty great I think SD2 was also incredible when it game out and had those big team battles. | ||
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ThunderJunk
United States709 Posts
On September 05 2025 15:47 qwerty4w wrote: Wind affecting projectiles means the current wind direction and speed need to be taken into consideration if the player wants to micro units perfectly. I think that's an interesting skill, but probably only makes sense for RTS/RTTs with low unit counts, which is likely why it's not reimplemented in Spring/Recoil. Yes, good point. I think it's a perfect thing in like an FPS where your sniper bullet gets pushed around a little by the wind. It's a necessity in a golf simulator. With multiple battles all over the map, large scale and small scale, accounting for shifting directional windspeed just feels to me like too much. | ||
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qwerty4w
53 Posts
On September 06 2025 00:43 qwerty4w wrote: Armies in C&C3 are generally more spread out than in Tempest Rising, probably partly due to pathfinding and unit physics and partly due to most vehicles in C&C3 can fire while moving. I forgot that C&C3 also has a formation system and Tempest Rising doesn't have one. Having useful spread-out formations is probably the most straightforward way to make armies in an RTS more spread out. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16883 Posts
On September 05 2025 05:48 qwerty4w wrote: Tempest Rising is going to have 3v3 next week: https://steamcommunity.com/app/1486920/eventcomments/603040419439183033 go on Twitch and try to find a game of Tempest Rising where 4 players are playing and they have a high unit count. Their "solution" is to create a 100 Pop Cap version of the game to make 2v2 viable. Unit tracking on UE5 does not scale. it fries the CPU. Bob Fitch's 1997 SC1 Engine > 2025 UE5 i hope that eventually, after many years of trying, someone makes RTS viable on the UE5 engine and then licenses/sells the tech. Perhaps when CPUs are 10X as powerful as they are now UE5 RTS games can be viable on a $1000//4 year old PC the way SC2 was in 2010. On September 05 2025 21:40 qwerty4w wrote: I heard that the multiplayer of early StarCraft without BW was mostly Zerg spamming 2-3 types of units, Tempest Rising at launch can't be worse than that. Early SC1 was severely imbalanced. | ||
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qwerty4w
53 Posts
By default, Tempest Rising has a set Population population limit of 200. It limits the maximum number of units the player can have on the map. As of the Rally & Recon update, the population capacity can be adjusted for skirmish and non-ranked multiplayer games. It can be set from 100 to 500 in increments of 100. Any 2v2 with 100 pop cap is with custom setting. Tempest Rising's pop cap (which is always displayed on the left of minimap) is per player not per team. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17399 Posts
On September 06 2025 04:32 qwerty4w wrote: I forgot that C&C3 also has a formation system and Tempest Rising doesn't have one. Having useful spread-out formations is probably the most straightforward way to make armies in an RTS more spread out. Personally I think that the best way to do that is to go the DoW/CoH route - purchasing and operating squads instead of single soldiers. It's easier to manage and visually much easier to comprehend. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17399 Posts
On September 06 2025 04:52 JimmyJRaynor wrote: go on Twitch and try to find a game of Tempest Rising where 4 players are playing and they have a high unit count. Their "solution" is to create a 100 Pop Cap version of the game to make 2v2 viable. Unit tracking on UE5 does not scale. it fries the CPU. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/ZelAN9U.png) There's 200 pop cap in 2v2. Also, there are units that make other units too (like drone troopers). Why do you think they would add a 2v2 (and soon 3v3) modes if it wouldn't be feasible? I suspect they know more about the game engine they're using than you do. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
Chad3062 Posts
But yeah, everything is just 2 blobs fighting each other. If the gameplay is run up to the opponent and attack and see who wins, why am I playing this game. I'm in it for the meaningless clicks, the rad designs, the skill and personality expression. All these games just look so ugly and boring. As an aside, talking about LAN etc. in the other bad Unshipped Games thread: DORF supposedly plans to release with LAN and even a physical copy? Maybe the latter part is attached to their rumored kickstarter, I don't know. But this is good news for DORF fans if it's true. Not just a nostalgia game, but actually doing some things correctly. Still reserving judgment until I play the game of course, but it's a nice detail. Waiting to see a competitive 1v1 match. | ||
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followZeRoX
Serbia1451 Posts
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Yurie
11914 Posts
On September 07 2025 16:28 followZeRoX wrote: So we are doomed if we want competitive 1v1 rts? I'm bored of wc3 or sc2, SG failed, is there anything until ZeroSpace tries? Age of Empire 2 and 4 seems to be doing fine. People say Beyond All Reason is good as well in 1vs1 but I don't play that mode. Also missing match making since it is in Alpha, making it harder to find games. Older in the same genre Supreme Commander Forged Alliance. Tempest Rising seems to be the only good one released this year. | ||
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qwerty4w
53 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17399 Posts
On September 07 2025 16:28 followZeRoX wrote: So we are doomed if we want competitive 1v1 rts? I'm bored of wc3 or sc2, SG failed, is there anything until ZeroSpace tries? Dawn of War got its definitive refurbished edition and people are playing it in anticipation for Dawn of War 4 which is slated to come out soon. https://tl.net/forum/games/641159-dawn-of-war-iv On September 07 2025 17:42 qwerty4w wrote: The reason Tempest Rising's battles look somewhat less dynamic than many other RTS games is probably that units can't stutter step like in Starcraft or Warcraft, neither can they attack while moving (other than vehicles crushing other units), and their average TTK isn't particularly low, lead to less need of frequent repositioning during combats. Still I think some RTS players might prefer to have less frequent repositioning and focus more on using these repositioning well to outcompete the opponent. I think this is a conscious choice by the devs. It is an interesting one IMO since it means you can't just randomly spam movement, every move has to be deliberate or you'll be missing out on damage in potentially critical engagement. This makes it a bit more strategic since you need to be careful of your positioning and need to micro more potentially (you don't spam orders on a big blob but instead want to reposition only the units that aren't currently engaging the enemy). Anyway, every RTS will have its unique systems and approaches. In DoW/CoH you have the squads with the cover system, destructible terrain, different armor types (in CoH/DoW2 you can have a million guys with basic guns and you won't be able to dent a vehicle, imagine zerglings or marines not being able to kill siege tanks) etc. They also have different approaches to micro: SC - stutter-stepping TR - moving selected units and only when necessary CoH - getting into cover/optimal range and staying there (this seems like not much micro but battles there are often taking place all over the map and not in just one place so you need to do a lot of this on different screens) | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6987 Posts
On September 07 2025 16:28 followZeRoX wrote: So we are doomed if we want competitive 1v1 rts? I'm bored of wc3 or sc2, SG failed, is there anything until ZeroSpace tries? Haven't played it myself but what about https://store.steampowered.com/app/3338950/The_Scouring/? | ||
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