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[HoN/DotA] Let's Play~!! - Page 845

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Goshawk.
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United Kingdom5338 Posts
April 21 2010 18:29 GMT
#16881
On April 22 2010 02:18 MYM.Testie wrote:
Heen are you still around ?!?


Heen played a few games about a month or 2 ago, but he had bad lag problems even with cats USWest bot.
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
April 21 2010 19:28 GMT
#16882
On April 22 2010 03:17 rabidch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2010 22:41 Judicator wrote:
On April 21 2010 22:15 Goshawk. wrote:
Heh, HoN finally realised why in dota it's good that orbs don't stack.

I bet if I play HoN soon I shall still find people stacking modifiers though. -_-

Saying that it's weird cos they only made slow an attack modifier, you can still stack lifesteal+magebane, or diffusal.


You people realize that orb's don't stack in DotA is more due to the fact stacking orbs in DotA is infinitely harder thanks to the War3 engine rather than balance issues right?

Yeah, but I don't want broodmother, weaver, ursa, drow fking running around with lifesteal and deso (holy shit deso weaver??) etc. bitches are annoying enough already. the only hero it does any good for is antimage and he's not a terrible pick

its difficult to implement in wc3 engine but its not impossible.
annoying to implement feature that will for sure cause annoying balance issues in the future => why would you want to implement this other than to get rid of all those tidbits of orb effects caused by the wc3 engine


No, it's not as simple as that, it would involve a lot of triggers per orb in order for them to stack. This will create many issues to a lot of items and skills (triggered or untriggered), balance isn't the reason why it hasn't been done, it's because it would literally be a major pain in the ass even if orb stacking was allowed in the very first iteration of DotA.
Get it by your hands...
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
April 21 2010 19:30 GMT
#16883
So can I ask a question without getting bitchy answers from everyone, or if I ask a serious question, will everyone just say "you're bad stfu ze"?
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
April 21 2010 19:34 GMT
#16884
On April 22 2010 04:30 Pokebunny wrote:
So can I ask a question without getting bitchy answers from everyone, or if I ask a serious question, will everyone just say "you're bad stfu ze"?


you're bad stfu ze

+ Show Spoiler +
ze
Get it by your hands...
JeeJee
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Canada5652 Posts
April 21 2010 19:43 GMT
#16885
On April 22 2010 03:26 L wrote:
Show nested quote +
again, your example makes no sense. if akuma is broken in version1, but fixed in version2, that doesn't mean he's good to go in version1. i don't even know wtf you're trying to say here as it makes absolutely no sense.
Feel free to read your own argument from past pages. Your statement was that a game which needed community intervention was a bad game. Period.

Show nested quote +
there is a difference between soft bans and hard bans. hey did you know akuma's not actually hard banned in japan?
He is in ST2 along with O.sagat. Its a hard ban for both there. In the american scene only akuma is banned. In HD remix, Japan has allowed akuma for some time, whereas the american scene rebanned him.

Either way, either something is banned or it isn't. There is no soft ban. Either something is against a tournament's rules or it isn't. There's no "oh well, that's kinda faggy" because if it isn't against the rules people will do it.

Show nested quote +
again in dota/hon, what you get from the devs isn't the game you end up playing forever. it changes. arcade games are not like that. very big difference.
Actually it is. The devs haven't been able to code half of the stuff that the community implements. While its admirable and laudable that they should and can fix the problems, at the end of the day its the players who have the final say of what they allow in their games in a situation in which they have power to regulate; IE in tournaments and such. And again, there are arcade games which do receive updates. That doesnt' stop tournaments from enacting bans. If a tournament wanted to run a prohibition on running more than 2 loops of any infinite combo in mvc, for instance, they would be perfectly able to do that.

Show nested quote +
it's funny you bring up raging at pubs because you're saying people who support BD are pubbers that blame their team and still want to pull out a win, but most of the pubbers don't even know what the fuck BD actually is.
Neither do you, yet people will still do it in pubs, and do it exclusively in pubs because you can't do that shit in ih games or tournament matches. The entire attempt to justify it is an attempt to justify its use in pubs because its simply NOT ALLOWED in other game formats. Its irrelevant if half the pubs don't know what BD is; its mostly the fault of obfuscation and shitty arguments from people like you who don't even know what BD is.

Show nested quote +
err if you win a teamfight outside the base but there's no creeps around, you can't just decide to go in their base to kill shit, it's backdooring. my fix works
Err, we push up your ramp, we get into a team fight we finish the team fight and win with 2 of us remaining. Our last kill involves both of us being on the bottom of the ramp, say, a puck. He jaunts away, but we have a clock that hooks him or some shit and we kill him. We walk back, 10 seconds have passed and we were just fighting up your ramp, but the shield's up. Now we can't finish the 150 hp rax because your carry just bb'd and we need to wait 30 seconds for creeps to arrive.

Yeah, your fix works alright, except that it materially alters the game in non-backdoor situations.

Again. I'm sitting in my base with THD. 30 seconds till my allies respawn. its 1v5. I macropyre all your creeps and they die, then run to my fountain. All the creeps die before they get up the ramp. Shields up, fucker, can't touch my base till 30 seconds pass and all my team is up.

YEAH, YOUR FIX WORKS ALRIGHT.

1 Creep reaches the bottom tower after ES fissure placed it off the path and so it skipped creeps. Clinkz starts BDing top.

THIS FIX IS FANTASTIC.
Show nested quote +
nobody gives a shit although they should.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. VS wouldn't autotarget the tower and a push wouldn't be sitting on the bottom of a ramp without creeps having pushed them up that far. VS also can't swap up the ramp without vision which typically comes from creeps or a proxy ward (but mostly creeps). You clearly don't know why the BD rule exists or what its meant to prevent if you think that a VS swapping up a ramp during a push is a contravention of the rule.


yeah and i stand by it. if version1 of the game has an imba char, and version2 does not, version1 is a bad game and version2 is not. that doesn't mean you can suddenly use imba char in version1 even if its fixed in version2. way to make sense. and yes, like i've said, st2 is a bad game by virtue of akuma being in it. for the sake of enjoyment though, that little fact is ignored and the game is salvaged ze

re: soft/hard bans, i'm afraid you're unfamiliar with the scene. i have no inclination to continue arguing over something that shouldn't even be a point to argue, since it's not a matter of opinion, it's just fact ze

re: playing what you get vs playing an updated game. you make no sense. dota isn't static, dota changes. otoh, take a widespread arcade game and it's going to stay the same until it's removed ze

sure, tournament could run whatever rules they want. if i want to run a starcraft tournament with only island/semi-island maps, i damn well can. doesn't say anything about the game though and isn't relevant here ze

oh i'm aware of what BD is; i don't think you understand the nuances. if you win a teamfight outside the base but there's no creeps to push in, you can't go in and kill, it's bd. in your macropyre example, it doesn't make sense. what you're saying is a team can go in without creeps and raze the opponent's base just because the creeps died CLOSE to the base? doesn't count. they're either in or they're out. if you use your approach, define close? 50range from bottom of ramp? 100 range? a bit further? how much further? somewhere, you're going to have to draw the line, and then you'll whine again that oh it's CLOSE to the line. no, you're either in or you're out. again, the fix works, your examples don't make sense ze

yes, vs would autotarget the tower, try it sometime. you delay clicking the walk command due to lag or something, she wont be standing there, she'll be attacking the only thing in range: the tower. vision problem doesn't even exist. wards or daytime and it's gone; either way not relevant ze

i know the reason the bd rule exists, i'm showing you that it's not foolproof and situations which directly break the rule are in general ignored because it's only a little bit of damage or something along those lines. that doesn't make sense, something either breaks the bd rule or it doesn't. a vs teleporting/blinking/whatever-you-wanna-call-it inside the enemy base and attacking a tower without creep support breaks it. for someone who can't understand the notion of a softban, i'm surprised you also don't understand this ze

of course i'm aware that stray hits on the tower is a minor rulebreak (i.e. if you repeat it several times you'll get in trouble but once? nahh) but an actual fix just makes it all the more robust

ze.
(\o/)  If you want it, you find a way. Otherwise you find excuses. No exceptions.
 /_\   aka Shinbi (requesting a name change since 27/05/09 ☺)
Elegance
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada917 Posts
April 21 2010 19:50 GMT
#16886
LOL Etherone wont be too happy about his courier mock.
Power of Ze
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
April 21 2010 19:55 GMT
#16887
I already broke the news to him.
He hasn't been the same since.
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
Elegance
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada917 Posts
April 21 2010 20:01 GMT
#16888
On April 22 2010 04:55 MYM.Testie wrote:
I already broke the news to him.
He hasn't been the same since.

You shoulda eased it into him,
Power of Ze
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
April 21 2010 20:09 GMT
#16889
Baby, I always ease it into him.
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
L
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada4732 Posts
April 21 2010 20:11 GMT
#16890
On April 22 2010 04:43 JeeJee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2010 03:26 L wrote:
again, your example makes no sense. if akuma is broken in version1, but fixed in version2, that doesn't mean he's good to go in version1. i don't even know wtf you're trying to say here as it makes absolutely no sense.
Feel free to read your own argument from past pages. Your statement was that a game which needed community intervention was a bad game. Period.

there is a difference between soft bans and hard bans. hey did you know akuma's not actually hard banned in japan?
He is in ST2 along with O.sagat. Its a hard ban for both there. In the american scene only akuma is banned. In HD remix, Japan has allowed akuma for some time, whereas the american scene rebanned him.

Either way, either something is banned or it isn't. There is no soft ban. Either something is against a tournament's rules or it isn't. There's no "oh well, that's kinda faggy" because if it isn't against the rules people will do it.

again in dota/hon, what you get from the devs isn't the game you end up playing forever. it changes. arcade games are not like that. very big difference.
Actually it is. The devs haven't been able to code half of the stuff that the community implements. While its admirable and laudable that they should and can fix the problems, at the end of the day its the players who have the final say of what they allow in their games in a situation in which they have power to regulate; IE in tournaments and such. And again, there are arcade games which do receive updates. That doesnt' stop tournaments from enacting bans. If a tournament wanted to run a prohibition on running more than 2 loops of any infinite combo in mvc, for instance, they would be perfectly able to do that.

it's funny you bring up raging at pubs because you're saying people who support BD are pubbers that blame their team and still want to pull out a win, but most of the pubbers don't even know what the fuck BD actually is.
Neither do you, yet people will still do it in pubs, and do it exclusively in pubs because you can't do that shit in ih games or tournament matches. The entire attempt to justify it is an attempt to justify its use in pubs because its simply NOT ALLOWED in other game formats. Its irrelevant if half the pubs don't know what BD is; its mostly the fault of obfuscation and shitty arguments from people like you who don't even know what BD is.

err if you win a teamfight outside the base but there's no creeps around, you can't just decide to go in their base to kill shit, it's backdooring. my fix works
Err, we push up your ramp, we get into a team fight we finish the team fight and win with 2 of us remaining. Our last kill involves both of us being on the bottom of the ramp, say, a puck. He jaunts away, but we have a clock that hooks him or some shit and we kill him. We walk back, 10 seconds have passed and we were just fighting up your ramp, but the shield's up. Now we can't finish the 150 hp rax because your carry just bb'd and we need to wait 30 seconds for creeps to arrive.

Yeah, your fix works alright, except that it materially alters the game in non-backdoor situations.

Again. I'm sitting in my base with THD. 30 seconds till my allies respawn. its 1v5. I macropyre all your creeps and they die, then run to my fountain. All the creeps die before they get up the ramp. Shields up, fucker, can't touch my base till 30 seconds pass and all my team is up.

YEAH, YOUR FIX WORKS ALRIGHT.

1 Creep reaches the bottom tower after ES fissure placed it off the path and so it skipped creeps. Clinkz starts BDing top.

THIS FIX IS FANTASTIC.
nobody gives a shit although they should.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. VS wouldn't autotarget the tower and a push wouldn't be sitting on the bottom of a ramp without creeps having pushed them up that far. VS also can't swap up the ramp without vision which typically comes from creeps or a proxy ward (but mostly creeps). You clearly don't know why the BD rule exists or what its meant to prevent if you think that a VS swapping up a ramp during a push is a contravention of the rule.


yeah and i stand by it. if version1 of the game has an imba char, and version2 does not, version1 is a bad game and version2 is not. that doesn't mean you can suddenly use imba char in version1 even if its fixed in version2. way to make sense. and yes, like i've said, st2 is a bad game by virtue of akuma being in it. for the sake of enjoyment though, that little fact is ignored and the game is salvaged ze

re: soft/hard bans, i'm afraid you're unfamiliar with the scene. i have no inclination to continue arguing over something that shouldn't even be a point to argue, since it's not a matter of opinion, it's just fact ze

re: playing what you get vs playing an updated game. you make no sense. dota isn't static, dota changes. otoh, take a widespread arcade game and it's going to stay the same until it's removed ze

sure, tournament could run whatever rules they want. if i want to run a starcraft tournament with only island/semi-island maps, i damn well can. doesn't say anything about the game though and isn't relevant here ze

oh i'm aware of what BD is; i don't think you understand the nuances. if you win a teamfight outside the base but there's no creeps to push in, you can't go in and kill, it's bd. in your macropyre example, it doesn't make sense. what you're saying is a team can go in without creeps and raze the opponent's base just because the creeps died CLOSE to the base? doesn't count. they're either in or they're out. if you use your approach, define close? 50range from bottom of ramp? 100 range? a bit further? how much further? somewhere, you're going to have to draw the line, and then you'll whine again that oh it's CLOSE to the line. no, you're either in or you're out. again, the fix works, your examples don't make sense ze

yes, vs would autotarget the tower, try it sometime. you delay clicking the walk command due to lag or something, she wont be standing there, she'll be attacking the only thing in range: the tower. vision problem doesn't even exist. wards or daytime and it's gone; either way not relevant ze

i know the reason the bd rule exists, i'm showing you that it's not foolproof and situations which directly break the rule are in general ignored because it's only a little bit of damage or something along those lines. that doesn't make sense, something either breaks the bd rule or it doesn't. a vs teleporting/blinking/whatever-you-wanna-call-it inside the enemy base and attacking a tower without creep support breaks it. for someone who can't understand the notion of a softban, i'm surprised you also don't understand this ze

of course i'm aware that stray hits on the tower is a minor rulebreak (i.e. if you repeat it several times you'll get in trouble but once? nahh) but an actual fix just makes it all the more robust

ze.

re everything: you clearly don't know what you're talking about if you think you know more about what BD is given the examples you've used. VS can magically see up hills and people defend vs 5 man pushes with single heros.

But okay. ST2 is a terrible game.

In other news: well done on being a pretty good troll. Until this post I thought you were for serious. That's skill, but not enough.

G G G G G ze~
The number you have dialed is out of porkchops.
JeeJee
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Canada5652 Posts
April 21 2010 23:25 GMT
#16891
it's funny because you nor your arguments make any sense actually ze.

vs magically seeing uphills has nothing to do with the example i brought up. the fact that you focus on that completely irrelevant aspect shows you have no idea how to respond to the actual point i'm making, but to humour you i have explained several times how vs can swap someone sitting uphill. but again i congratulate you on completely missing the point ze.

and again, the issue with the macropyre example isn't that the thd can defend a 5man push, it's the fact that you said a team can push into the enemy's base with no creep support and call it not bd. again i congratulate you on completely missing the point ze.

i admire that you finally figured out you make no sense though ze.
(\o/)  If you want it, you find a way. Otherwise you find excuses. No exceptions.
 /_\   aka Shinbi (requesting a name change since 27/05/09 ☺)
paper
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
13196 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-21 23:37:05
April 21 2010 23:26 GMT
#16892
[image loading]


btw, don't bother, shin-bee. arguing with L is like arguing with a smart 8 year old
Hates Fun🤔
Nitrogen
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States5345 Posts
April 21 2010 23:33 GMT
#16893
testie is really good at using pms

[image loading]
UNFUCK YOURSELF
Dark.Carnival
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States5095 Posts
April 21 2010 23:35 GMT
#16894
jaka jaka jan jan jaka jan JAKA JAN
@QxGDarkCell ._.
L
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada4732 Posts
April 21 2010 23:46 GMT
#16895
On April 22 2010 08:25 JeeJee wrote:
it's funny because you nor your arguments make any sense actually ze.

vs magically seeing uphills has nothing to do with the example i brought up. the fact that you focus on that completely irrelevant aspect shows you have no idea how to respond to the actual point i'm making, but to humour you i have explained several times how vs can swap someone sitting uphill. but again i congratulate you on completely missing the point ze.

and again, the issue with the macropyre example isn't that the thd can defend a 5man push, it's the fact that you said a team can push into the enemy's base with no creep support and call it not bd. again i congratulate you on completely missing the point ze.

i admire that you finally figured out you make no sense though ze.

Your trolololol was good before I figured it out.

Now its just sad.
The number you have dialed is out of porkchops.
Elegance
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada917 Posts
April 21 2010 23:54 GMT
#16896
jaka jaka jan jan jaka jan JAKA JAN
Power of Ze
GazeRocker
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada60 Posts
April 22 2010 00:12 GMT
#16897
jaka jaka jan jan jaka jan JAKA JAN ze?
OmgIRok
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Taiwan2699 Posts
April 22 2010 00:26 GMT
#16898
http://www.playdota.com/videos/957

Everyone watch now
"Wanna join my [combo] clan?" "We play turret d competitively"
JeeJee
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Canada5652 Posts
April 22 2010 00:34 GMT
#16899
On April 22 2010 08:46 L wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2010 08:25 JeeJee wrote:
it's funny because you nor your arguments make any sense actually ze.

vs magically seeing uphills has nothing to do with the example i brought up. the fact that you focus on that completely irrelevant aspect shows you have no idea how to respond to the actual point i'm making, but to humour you i have explained several times how vs can swap someone sitting uphill. but again i congratulate you on completely missing the point ze.

and again, the issue with the macropyre example isn't that the thd can defend a 5man push, it's the fact that you said a team can push into the enemy's base with no creep support and call it not bd. again i congratulate you on completely missing the point ze.

i admire that you finally figured out you make no sense though ze.

Your trolololol was good before I figured it out.

Now its just sad.


just cause i'm adding ze doesn't mean i'm not serious. but i'm happy that this debate has ended so this thread can go back to being on topic
+ Show Spoiler +
ze
(\o/)  If you want it, you find a way. Otherwise you find excuses. No exceptions.
 /_\   aka Shinbi (requesting a name change since 27/05/09 ☺)
iLoveKT
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Philippines3615 Posts
April 22 2010 00:46 GMT
#16900
whats with the long and thoughtful posts guys?
Woo Jung Ho
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