EPThehe
[HoN/DotA] Let's Play~!! - Page 843
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paper
13197 Posts
hehe | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
On April 21 2010 04:07 L wrote: You're horrendously bad. But yeah, keep thinking marauders are good vs lings. Uh. the 5 mek + chen, 5 necrobook push, mass AR fast push, were all dominant for months. Hence why the item combinations were banned; every game became a question of who could get their necrobooks or meks up faster because you simply couldn't stop that shit. Mek was patched to not overlap. AR was never changed. Necrobook now has a limited stock. Blink was repeatedly nerfed. Etc. These weren't 1 series strategies. They literally became the game because they raped their counters. I guess you think ST2 was a terrible game because you could pick akuma, but since he's banned in all tournaments the game continued to have a vibrant competitive scene. There are so many examples of a community self-policing their game that its unreal you'd assume the developer-centric method of game content delivery is the end-all and be-all. You might as well say BW should have died because their ladder was shit and that third parties shouldn't have stepped up to fix the issue. so, out of curiosity, when 5 meks, 5 necrobooks and 5ARs were all available, which one was melting the most face? actually i'm happy you brought up akuma, because it's the perfect example. for those unfamiliar, akuma's a secret character that you can select via code that is much better than every other character. if akuma were kept in the game, it would devolve into akuma vs akuma, every match. so there's a hard ban on akuma -- you get DQd. there's also soft bans in that game actually (i.e. discouraged but not outright banned) depending where you play. what's the difference between st2 and hon? well, the game can't be fixed in the same way that hon/dota can. it's pretty simple. same goes for other console/arcade fighters that tend to have a lot of community rules, like smash, etc. also, the bw ladder example doesn't make sense; you should be talking about bw strats. i.e. bw had broken strats like reavers without landing sickness (i don't know if its actually broken, didn't play back then but lets assume it is) but unlike console/arcade games, they can be fixed. is there a strat in bw right now that's banned in 1v1 play? the only thing i can think of is the gaswalk, if it's still possible, but you can see how that's not the same, yeah? | ||
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Elegance
Canada917 Posts
Fatty | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On April 21 2010 09:14 JeeJee wrote: so, out of curiosity, when 5 meks, 5 necrobooks and 5ARs were all available, which one was melting the most face? actually i'm happy you brought up akuma, because it's the perfect example. for those unfamiliar, akuma's a secret character that you can select via code that is much better than every other character. if akuma were kept in the game, it would devolve into akuma vs akuma, every match. so there's a hard ban on akuma -- you get DQd. there's also soft bans in that game actually (i.e. discouraged but not outright banned) depending where you play. what's the difference between st2 and hon? well, the game can't be fixed in the same way that hon/dota can. it's pretty simple. same goes for other console/arcade fighters that tend to have a lot of community rules, like smash, etc. also, the bw ladder example doesn't make sense; you should be talking about bw strats. i.e. bw had broken strats like reavers without landing sickness (i don't know if its actually broken, didn't play back then but lets assume it is) but unlike console/arcade games, they can be fixed. is there a strat in bw right now that's banned in 1v1 play? the only thing i can think of is the gaswalk, if it's still possible, but you can see how that's not the same, yeah? There shouldn't be a NEED to fix every little thing in a game though. Plus 5 Meks > 5 ARs > 5 Necros, Meks and ARs would hit the table before the Books would, and that's all that really matters. Like I said, when the said "strategy" or "tactic" just gives massive advantage with little investment from the users of said strategies/tactics, that's not good for any game. But again, your faith or reasoning behind the patching of DotA/HoN as a cure-all of sorts is misplaced. | ||
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jpopidol
108 Posts
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L
Canada4732 Posts
On April 21 2010 09:14 JeeJee wrote: so, out of curiosity, when 5 meks, 5 necrobooks and 5ARs were all available, which one was melting the most face? actually i'm happy you brought up akuma, because it's the perfect example. for those unfamiliar, akuma's a secret character that you can select via code that is much better than every other character. if akuma were kept in the game, it would devolve into akuma vs akuma, every match. so there's a hard ban on akuma -- you get DQd. there's also soft bans in that game actually (i.e. discouraged but not outright banned) depending where you play. what's the difference between st2 and hon? well, the game can't be fixed in the same way that hon/dota can. it's pretty simple. same goes for other console/arcade fighters that tend to have a lot of community rules, like smash, etc. also, the bw ladder example doesn't make sense; you should be talking about bw strats. i.e. bw had broken strats like reavers without landing sickness (i don't know if its actually broken, didn't play back then but lets assume it is) but unlike console/arcade games, they can be fixed. is there a strat in bw right now that's banned in 1v1 play? the only thing i can think of is the gaswalk, if it's still possible, but you can see how that's not the same, yeah? No, I shouldn't be talking about bw strats. I should be talking about game parameters, because the community's ability to change them is perfectly well known and legitimate. Got an issue with the ladder? Deal with it. The developer doesn't need to take responsibility for your game experience when you can do so just as easily as them. Akuma isn't 'hard banned' and other characters aren't 'soft banned'. Akuma is banned by the community in tournaments because he's fucking broken and no other character is. Period. ST2 isn't a 'bad' game as you've suggested because the community stepped in and laid down guidelines. Its a very good game. From this example we learn that not only are community bans possible, but they're also tenable and acceptable! You bring up the example of other console/arcade fighters that have a lot of community rules: ding ding ding, that's the entire point! If a certain form of gameplay is accepted to be degenerate and the community agrees to remove it (which they have in the case of base and rax BDing) then what's the problem? To get back to the point of developer and game experience, do you remember when competitive dota was actually segmented along sentinel/scourge lines? In that the league mode for picking was normal? The community decided to change it, hence why we had rd and captain's mode included into the game. It was actually a huge movement after a tournament in the dota-allstars forum where someone suggested just doing all-pick with alternating bans then picks. That BECAME a game feature after it had been accepted prior. Now, on the topic of BD; why not just code it away? Well its because the WC3 engine is a box of shit and we get into scenarios like the following: I walk into your base during a push and put down a ward. Our team now has a unit in your base which arrived there legitimately during a push. Now all your base shit is BDable. Okay, we fixed that bug, np. Someone walks into your base and rapes you. 5v5 and we've ended up with a 1v1. An obsidian destroyer against, say, a dragon knight. DK has enough hp to skullfuck obsidian, so he's chopping away at melee rax. Obsidian astral prisons him. No units are left in the base. Anti-BD shield goes up. Rax are invincible again. Okay, we fixed that bug, np. Someone tps into the base as furion and has the rest of his team tp to created treants. Ten seconds later, a creep arrives at a tower. Okay, we fixed... oh wait, we haven't. that's been firmly against the rules since TDA opened up and they still haven't changed shit. Why bother releasing repeated patches when the community largely knows what is and what isn't acceptable? Tournaments have their own item restriction rules in place already and they have their own BD rules. You guys are just trying to justify doing this shit in pubs because you get terrible teams and rage them out, then somehow want to win a 5v1 when your team is getting smashed. Well done, you're BM douchebags. Then again, that's par for the course when it comes to HoN/Dota, so carry on. | ||
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OmgIRok
Taiwan2699 Posts
no more lmnop spamming is kinda weird edit: interesting discussion though, plz do carry on | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/2594/thuglife.png) "YO ASH GET OUTTA MY FACE" -PikAchU thugin4life me and my gf are deep yo + Show Spoiler + (7:33:48 PM) Notmyname: also ash ketchum (7:33:50 PM) Notmyname: is creepo (7:34:07 PM) Notmyname: he trained his pikachu to attack girls bikes every time he goes to a new region (7:34:10 PM) Notmyname: obv (7:34:17 PM) Notmyname: gets tehm why they are still 10 (7:34:29 PM) Notmyname: he must be like 14-6 ez by now (7:34:57 PM) Nothername ♥: 12 i think he's 12 (7:35:01 PM) Nothername ♥: brock is 16 (7:35:04 PM) Nothername ♥: that loser (7:36:25 PM) Notmyname: yeha brock is a def loser (7:36:31 PM) Notmyname: he ccant be 12 (7:36:34 PM) Notmyname: he like walke on foot (7:36:36 PM) Notmyname: around the world (7:36:37 PM) Notmyname: by now (7:38:55 PM) Nothername ♥: it's obvy a primitive culture (7:39:10 PM) Nothername ♥: they just found out there's a whole continent they never noticed before (7:39:18 PM) Nothername ♥: they have 1 technology (7:39:25 PM) Nothername ♥: pokeballs pretty much (7:39:33 PM) Notmyname: well (7:39:34 PM) Notmyname: i say (7:39:37 PM) Notmyname: after jhoto (7:39:39 PM) Notmyname: its not really like that (7:39:41 PM) Notmyname: its just ash (7:39:43 PM) Notmyname: isnt educated (7:39:45 PM) Notmyname: obv (7:39:52 PM) Notmyname: because he left to go travel at the age 10 (7:39:53 PM) Notmyname: lol (7:39:56 PM) Nothername ♥: yeah (7:39:57 PM) Nothername ♥: ahhahaha (7:40:00 PM) Nothername ♥: ridic (7:40:05 PM) Nothername ♥: he'd hella get raped (7:40:07 PM) Notmyname: and its exmaplined each pokedex is just programed with pokemon in that region (7:40:12 PM) Notmyname: so it not so stupid (7:40:14 PM) Notmyname: just ash (7:40:15 PM) Notmyname: haha (7:40:39 PM) Notmyname: im sup[ise there arent liek 100 dead kids (7:40:41 PM) Notmyname: in their world (7:40:45 PM) Notmyname: killed by pokemon (7:41:00 PM) Notmyname: i mean they show wild pokemon attacking them (7:41:08 PM) Notmyname: so i mean there must always be kids that dont make it (7:41:19 PM) Nothername ♥: ewwwwww (7:41:20 PM) Nothername ♥: notmyname (7:41:22 PM) Nothername ♥: too sad (7:41:26 PM) Nothername ♥: too morbid (7:41:29 PM) Notmyname: lol (7:41:31 PM) Nothername ♥: right before i go to bed too (7:41:34 PM) Notmyname: aww (7:41:45 PM) Notmyname: well i also dont get how some pokeballs are made from arcons lol (7:41:54 PM) Notmyname: *kiss (7:41:55 PM) Notmyname: sleep well (7:43:13 PM) Notmyname: i mean (7:43:16 PM) Notmyname: ash must be uneducated (7:43:20 PM) Notmyname: not to see teamrocket (7:43:25 PM) Nothername ♥: 5th grade education (7:43:26 PM) Notmyname: after just weak discuises (7:43:33 PM) Notmyname: no face regonition (7:45:17 PM) Nothername ♥: i don't think they really teach that in school though (7:45:29 PM) Notmyname: yeah (7:45:36 PM) Notmyname: but becuase he doesnt hang around people every day (7:45:37 PM) Notmyname: like in school (7:45:42 PM) Notmyname: he doesnt learn how to regonize poeple (7:45:43 PM) Notmyname: obv (7:46:01 PM) Notmyname: i mean brock is he like only long time person he sees (7:46:03 PM) Notmyname: and office jenny (7:46:04 PM) Nothername ♥: ahhh (7:46:05 PM) Notmyname: and nurse joy (7:46:07 PM) Notmyname: all look the same (7:46:09 PM) Nothername ♥: you should right a paper on that (7:46:11 PM) Notmyname: so he never lerns (7:46:22 PM) Nothername ♥: maybe they don't all look the same (7:46:30 PM) Nothername ♥: maybe it's from his perspective (7:46:38 PM) Nothername ♥: like he can't recognize differences (7:46:39 PM) Notmyname: obv (7:46:52 PM) Nothername ♥: pokemon is obv a journey into a mad boy's mind (7:47:09 PM) Notmyname: prob why there is recuring themes (7:47:15 PM) Notmyname: like the new girl every new region (7:47:21 PM) Notmyname: and frying of the bike | ||
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hideo
Canada1641 Posts
Skadi + Satanic was sick on morphling, shadow fiend, sniper. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On April 21 2010 12:03 hideo wrote: hmmm ... in DotA, life steal stacked with skadi on ranged heroes. Skadi + Satanic was sick on morphling, shadow fiend, sniper. Except that nobody made skadi, the last skadi I saw was in 52e. | ||
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hideo
Canada1641 Posts
On April 21 2010 08:28 lepape wrote:+ Show Spoiler + I watched a few HoN games on HoN cast this week, and does anyone else think DotA and all it's successors are very bad spectator games? In SC, most games would last maximum 20 minutes and they are generally exciting as hell for the amount of time you spend watching. In HoN, the first 10-20 minutes of the game are also really fun to watch, but after that, when the game lasts an hour, you might as well skip to the end, or watch a movie. Especially since most of the time, you can already tell who's gonna win by the 20th minute. In SC, some games could last 5 minutes if a player goes for cheese. In HoN, when a team completely massacre another, the shortest I've seen is about 15 minutes. Would HoN be a better game overal if the winning team had a chance to completely secure their win more quickly (without relying on the other team conceding?) You're probably watching games that aren't worth watching. Hon commentators cast every single game in a tournament for some reason, so there are a lot of crappy games. There's a serious lack of good commentating in hon/dota, on top of that. This is probably my favourite, but then I only know of like 4 or so DotA casters total: | ||
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hideo
Canada1641 Posts
On April 21 2010 12:12 Judicator wrote: Except that nobody made skadi, the last skadi I saw was in 52e. Skadi is made all the time now as Medusa and Morphling are popular picks. You also see it being rushed by certain SF players. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On April 21 2010 12:15 hideo wrote: Skadi is made all the time now as Medusa and Morphling are popular picks. You also see it being rushed by certain SF players. And who exactly is making them? | ||
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Nitrogen
United States5345 Posts
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Amnesia
United States3818 Posts
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L
Canada4732 Posts
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
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Wala.Revolution
7584 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Version 0.3.4.1 ------------- - Fixed Fayde's tooltip for Reflection to correctly state that the Illusion is killed when she lands her first attack from stealth. - Fixed Fayde's model to not be a teapot. Sorry if you like teapots. - Fixed the hero overlay 'sticking' Version 0.3.4 ------------- General - Life Steal items, except for Abyssal Skull, are now exclusive attack modifiers (will not stack with Frostburn, Frostwolf's Skull, etc) - Dominating neutral creeps (using Ophelia or Whispering Helm) will no longer cause the dominated creep's camp to stack less than 3 times total - A Doombringer can no longer be killed, sold, or held by a courier / Wildsoul bear. Once someone buys a Doombringer, it's in the game for good! * NOTE: This means that if you buy a Doombringer on a courier / Wildsoul bear, then it will immediately drop the Doombringer. Beware! (Note: Due to a bug, Doombringer can currently be transferred to stash and dropped manually. This will be fixed next patch.) - Matchmaking will now sort players from top to bottom according to SMR - Fixed an issue where the loading race number carries over to the next game, it should be reset properly each match now - Right clicking images for the various game mode/options on the "Join Game" notification should now close the notification properly - "Official" and "Official - No Stats" icons properly appear in the first column in the game browser now with their appropriate tooltip - Hovering over locked or unlocked slots in the game lobby will display the appropriate "Locked" or "Unlocked" tooltip now - Fixed the Jail Bars appearing mis-aligned when a player is locked on the Hellbourne side in the game lobby - Fixed the right click host visible menu appearing half cut-off if used on the Hellbourne side of the game lobby - Added an tooltip to the host's lock/unlock button indicating that slots can not be locked in the "Auto Balanced" game mode - Empty hero picker icons no longer react to mouseover/clicks as if they're active - Fixed an issue where players who tried to add friends during the first few days of open beta experienced issues trying to request new friends got a message indicating they had already requested them and needed to wait. They should no longer need to wait any longer than 60 seconds to re-request their a friend - Fixed an issue where certain players would always be flagged with a PSR of "N/A", resulting in 100% win chance for their team - The notification history now adds the most recent notifications to the top of the list - Fixed a small animation on the effect indicators - Fixed a bug which caused music to not loop - Removed that non working update button - Sending buddy/clan whispers to players in /afk mode will no longer return a response indicating that the player was AFK with the reason - If a player wishes to not see buddy/clan whispers they can use /dnd mode and it will stop those messages from being delivered to them - Startup.cfg fixes (credit to Notausgang) * SetSave is now properly quoted and escaped * BindButton, BindImpulse, etc is now properly escaped * Alias is now properly quoted and escaped UI modding enhancements (credit to Notausgang/Tisser): - Added new UI function IsEnabled. (Credit to Tisser) - Added a new UI function EscapeString(str). It scans the input string for any \ or ' characters and adds a backslash before them * Don't do this twice to the same string! That will likely cause the result to be invalid - Added new UI_CMD() AddTemplateListItemWithSortReversed() that takes the same parameters as AddTemplateListItemWithSort() but adds the newest elements to the top of the list instead of the end (so the newest item appears at the top of the widget.) Items Barbed Armor - Fixed it returning damage to owners of gadgets that deal damage (Voodoo's Ward, Defiler Spirits, etc) Hellflower - Damage multiplier is now constant while the effect is on them (+20%), not a burst at the end - Now perplexes Mock of Brilliance - Damage will not be dealt if a Courier holds the Mock Nomes Wisdom - Recipe cost increased to 600 from 260 Restoration Stone - Now properly gives the sum of it's parts in bonuses Savage Mace - Damage increased to 88 (proper sum of it's parts) Heroes New Hellbourne Agi Hero Fayde Armadon - Sped up the quills for his quill spray Behemoth - Fixed Announcer Blacksmith - Fixed a small Multicast issue Chipper - Reduce walk noises by 66% - Tweak footsteps, more organic sounding - Mana cost of rockets set to 50/60/70/85 from 50/65/80/95 - Hitting a target with rockets within 175 units will now deal full damage, rather than half - Tar Toss is now Physical instead of Magic, but can be removed by Purge, Shrunken Head activation, etc - Reworked Focus Buffer * Now absorbs 150/300/450/600 Magic damage * Buff lasts 20 seconds * 20 second cooldown - Sawblade Showdown can now be boosted by Staff of the Master * Increases range to 1000 from 700 * Applies a 70% snare to all enemies inside of the saws Corrupted Disciple - Recommended Item tweaks Engineer - Fixed the turret sometimes not being able to fire the last 2 shots of the burst - Fixed the turret not using 1/16th of its mana per shot when it got more mana Pharaoh - Tormented Soul no longer draws on the minimap Slither - Ward health lowered to 60/110/160/210 Swiftblade - Movespeed lowered by 5 Torturer - Radius of the stun is now consistent across all levels at 225 Valkyrie - Call of the Valkyrie cast time reduced from 1.33s to 0.6s | ||
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GhostKorean
United States2330 Posts
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
derivative of yamateh build for SF Days vs CH was epic. But the commentator says Days are up and coming, but some of them were from XFY so not really a new team. Most Euro/NA people don't know much about Chinese DotA players. | ||
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