[HoN/DotA] Let's Play~!! - Page 844

On April 21 2010 15:48 Insane wrote:
Came expecting bad music.

Was not surprised.

On April 21 2010 22:15 Goshawk. wrote:
Heh, HoN finally realised why in dota it's good that orbs don't stack.

I bet if I play HoN soon I shall still find people stacking modifiers though. -_-

Saying that it's weird cos they only made slow an attack modifier, you can still stack lifesteal+magebane, or diffusal.

On April 21 2010 10:44 L wrote:

No, I shouldn't be talking about bw strats. I should be talking about game parameters, because the community's ability to change them is perfectly well known and legitimate. Got an issue with the ladder? Deal with it. The developer doesn't need to take responsibility for your game experience when you can do so just as easily as them.

Akuma isn't 'hard banned' and other characters aren't 'soft banned'. Akuma is banned by the community in tournaments because he's fucking broken and no other character is. Period. ST2 isn't a 'bad' game as you've suggested because the community stepped in and laid down guidelines. Its a very good game. From this example we learn that not only are community bans possible, but they're also tenable and acceptable!

You bring up the example of other console/arcade fighters that have a lot of community rules: ding ding ding, that's the entire point! If a certain form of gameplay is accepted to be degenerate and the community agrees to remove it (which they have in the case of base and rax BDing) then what's the problem?

To get back to the point of developer and game experience, do you remember when competitive dota was actually segmented along sentinel/scourge lines? In that the league mode for picking was normal? The community decided to change it, hence why we had rd and captain's mode included into the game. It was actually a huge movement after a tournament in the dota-allstars forum where someone suggested just doing all-pick with alternating bans then picks.

That BECAME a game feature after it had been accepted prior.

Now, on the topic of BD; why not just code it away? Well its because the WC3 engine is a box of shit and we get into scenarios like the following: I walk into your base during a push and put down a ward. Our team now has a unit in your base which arrived there legitimately during a push. Now all your base shit is BDable.

Okay, we fixed that bug, np. Someone walks into your base and rapes you. 5v5 and we've ended up with a 1v1. An obsidian destroyer against, say, a dragon knight. DK has enough hp to skullfuck obsidian, so he's chopping away at melee rax. Obsidian astral prisons him. No units are left in the base. Anti-BD shield goes up. Rax are invincible again.

Okay, we fixed that bug, np. Someone tps into the base as furion and has the rest of his team tp to created treants. Ten seconds later, a creep arrives at a tower.

Okay, we fixed... oh wait, we haven't. that's been firmly against the rules since TDA opened up and they still haven't changed shit.

Why bother releasing repeated patches when the community largely knows what is and what isn't acceptable? Tournaments have their own item restriction rules in place already and they have their own BD rules. You guys are just trying to justify doing this shit in pubs because you get terrible teams and rage them out, then somehow want to win a 5v1 when your team is getting smashed. Well done, you're BM douchebags.

Then again, that's par for the course when it comes to HoN/Dota, so carry on.

there are actually both hard and soft bans. compare akuma and osagat. one you get DQd for using, the other is just frowned upon. Actually this varies from region to region, iirc osagat is looked at way differently in north america than in japan for example.

here's the main difference between hon and arcade fighters. in arcade fighters, what you get is what you play.

it's funny you bring up raging at pubs, because there's backdooring almost every game in every pub, just not as deliberate as walking up alone to a rax and taking it out. it may be as simple as tossing a few hits on a tower popping it into the deny range after towerdiving a hero that TPd away, but nobody seems to give a shit about that, do they? only when they're in danger of actually losing because they're too retarded to carry TPs that the whinetrain goes choochoo

your examples don't really make sense tbh. consider a simple fix where if one of the 3 spawned creeps enters a pre-defined area (say starting from up the ramps), the base is flagged as attackable until, say, 10 seconds elapse with no allied units left in the area. make sure the area only covers open ground and exclude wards and you're good to go.

On April 21 2010 22:41 Judicator wrote:


You people realize that orb's don't stack in DotA is more due to the fact stacking orbs in DotA is infinitely harder thanks to the War3 engine rather than balance issues right?

On April 22 2010 02:18 MYM.Testie wrote:
Heen are you still around ?!?

On April 22 2010 00:59 L wrote:

Old Sagat is not banned. He's top tier but that's the exact same thing as SF4 sagat. Doesn't mean either hero is banned. Akuma is banned. Sagat is not. Period.

Uh, that's exactly the way it is with HoN and DotA too. You can bitch at icefrog and S2 to change things, but at the end of the day it comes down to the community to be the final arbiters of what's acceptable and what isn't. Even then, there ARE multiple arcade titles that get updates and release tweak versions. Does that mean that broken shit in prior versions is now acceptable despite having a hard ban? Is ST2 now prime for Akuma usage because its been updated as HD remix? No. Nor should it be.

A form of gameplay that leads to a degenerate play condition can be addressed by the community, and it should be. Backdooring was FAR more degenerate than it is now, and continues to be degenerate and there has been substantial effort from both the developers and the community to get it stopped. You'd think the issue would be closed but then we get a bunch of terrible pub trollfaces like paper who decide its open season to be a BM loser and we're back to this discussion, as usual.




Backdooring doesn't happen in almost every pub. Perhaps you were confused; what you described isn't BDing unless its on base towers.

And why is it funny I bring up raging at pubs? You can't do it in competitive matches. I've never seen it happen in high level IHs with players that know each other either.

Feel free to look at my examples. Your situation is already covered. Also, lol at being able unable to attack towers if they have a THD macropyring all your shit before it reaches the top of the ramp, or if you win a team fight but the counter resets because you fought at the bottom of the ramp.

Get it? The simple fix DOESN'T WORK. Hence why IT HASN'T BEEN IMPLEMENTED.

Also: ze.

On April 21 2010 22:41 Judicator wrote:


You people realize that orb's don't stack in DotA is more due to the fact stacking orbs in DotA is infinitely harder thanks to the War3 engine rather than balance issues right?

again, your example makes no sense. if akuma is broken in version1, but fixed in version2, that doesn't mean he's good to go in version1. i don't even know wtf you're trying to say here as it makes absolutely no sense.

there is a difference between soft bans and hard bans. hey did you know akuma's not actually hard banned in japan?

again in dota/hon, what you get from the devs isn't the game you end up playing forever. it changes. arcade games are not like that. very big difference.

it's funny you bring up raging at pubs because you're saying people who support BD are pubbers that blame their team and still want to pull out a win, but most of the pubbers don't even know what the fuck BD actually is.

err if you win a teamfight outside the base but there's no creeps around, you can't just decide to go in their base to kill shit, it's backdooring. my fix works

nobody gives a shit although they should.