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On September 07 2011 06:56 FinestHour wrote:
You contradict yourself with your own statements...if any hero can do that with stacked items, then there is no hardest carry.
What i was saying is that any hero can carry as well as magebane can lategame, given the same bunch of big items. I think accursed, given the same number of items as mage late-game, could carry equally well, if not harder, for example.
And by "hardest carry", I mean which hero scales the best into the late-late game. Aka, which heroes gains the most advantage by being fully "pimped out". Chronos was a good pick, because of his infinitely annoying sphere, and other abilities, I guess. Tbh, I've never played him. Some heroes like pebs do HUUUUGGGGGGGEE burst damage given a couple level lead and good farm, but became complete non-issues by late game. By the time level 25 wars come around, his formerly huge burst damage carry status changes to him using his abilities to stun at key times.
And lets quit with the egos guys, seriously. People that play this game are so immature.
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And by "hardest carry", I mean which hero scales the best into the late-late game.
Then people like Dark Lady, Scout, Sand Wraith and Chronos are what you're looking for. Sand is a bit different in that he does slow constant damage while being impossible to kill. In terms of numbers I think its Dark Lady on a single target getting a free 80% base damage and 75 attack speed.
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On September 07 2011 07:00 wonderwall wrote:Have to be more specific. Highest potential dps on a single target? No clue I think Dark Lady is up there though. 1v1 carry wars? These are really situational and often depend on who initiates on who. The best carry to pick in a MM game? Valk and Magebane are up there as its so difficult to gank them and stop them from farming. Best carry in the pro scene? Silhouette recently in last weeks games.
I think what he means is, if one carry had high farm, when compared to other carries at the same farmed state, which is the strongest?
I this SW is a strong contender for hardest carry. If you can get him 2400 or so health (frostwulf and behemoths heart?), then he's extremely hard to bring down, and does huge damage to everyone. Nullfire or mock makes him do obscene damage. While at the same time, Frostwulf slowing everyone and draining some mana. Crazy.
Scout is definitely in the conversation. So is Dark Lady.
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On September 07 2011 07:43 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2011 06:56 FinestHour wrote:
You contradict yourself with your own statements...if any hero can do that with stacked items, then there is no hardest carry. What i was saying is that any hero can carry as well as magebane can lategame, given the same bunch of big items. I think accursed, given the same number of items as mage late-game, could carry equally well, if not harder, for example. And by "hardest carry", I mean which hero scales the best into the late-late game. Aka, which heroes gains the most advantage by being fully "pimped out". Chronos was a good pick, because of his infinitely annoying sphere, and other abilities, I guess. Tbh, I've never played him. Some heroes like pebs do HUUUUGGGGGGGEE burst damage given a couple level lead and good farm, but became complete non-issues by late game. By the time level 25 wars come around, his formerly huge burst damage carry status changes to him using his abilities to stun at key times. And lets quit with the egos guys, seriously. People that play this game are so immature.
If you're getting all theoretical as to what's the hardest carry, then it's obviously pudge and silencer. I figure silencer > pudge >>>>>>...>>>>>>>...>>>>> everyone else
edit: that's devourer and vindicator for the hon folks
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magebane has a shorter time between attacks, not all heroes are equal ;p
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The hardest realistic carry is Gladiator with 6 runed axes  PP
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Scout beat Valk for #1 played hero! I blame the skin. Dat ass.
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On September 07 2011 07:43 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2011 06:56 FinestHour wrote:
You contradict yourself with your own statements...if any hero can do that with stacked items, then there is no hardest carry. What i was saying is that any hero can carry as well as magebane can lategame, given the same bunch of big items. I think accursed, given the same number of items as mage late-game, could carry equally well, if not harder, for example.
Because magebane doesn't scale like x hard carry with crit/bash/etc, he's apparently on the same level as accursed who has gud ultimate and 40% attack speed.
Yeah, you're just trolling.
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Which is why you should respond with similar nonsense and then let people who are so heavily invested in an online discussion regarding a mostly useless hypothetical situation become furious when someone says that previously mentioned discussion is useless.
wat
troll warlord #1
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I've seen a lot of people using scout recently even without the skin, not sure what's going on there. Personally I'd almost always prefer scout was on my team because playing against his wards is seriously demoralising. Permanent rev wards/obv wards... ugh. Also wards are awesome in lane for blocking spawns and clearing wards that people place to block spawns.
As for carries I'm partial to Maliken. Even without items he's pretty strong but with items he's kinda crazy. He's kind of situational but when the situation come up, well everyone remembers Maliken 1v5ing an entire team on 15% hp.
Also Night Hound. Once he gets a small advantage he can really destroy a game because he's such a good ganker and late game his ridiculous agi scaling as well as cloud is awesome. Playing against him though as a carry I love getting MKB early and owning him through cloud.
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On September 07 2011 08:17 FinestHour wrote:
Scout beat Valk for #1 played hero! I blame the skin. Dat ass.
the bad part are scouts that think laying wards at rune spot counts as enough team play for the first 40 mins while they play their solo PvE game in the long lane.
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Scout wards aren't totally invis and most players seem to know about 3 total locations to put them. You can often get them as you're heading to rune.
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Hmm, random broad question - What are some effective ways to recover from poor starts?
(I don't mean like 0-5-0 bot lane, I mean like your opponents in lane wound up with 2x your ck and are up maybe 2-3 levels - it's just unavoidable in certain lanes. Sometimes solo vs 3, sometimes support a really weak at laning carry).
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Step back, take a moment to assess the entire map situation for your team. Then make a decision.
Sack the lane, call for help, or do whatever it takes to win the game. Most general tips are buy wards or smokes [ if these exist in hon ]
If you're that behind just aim for positional advantages where they have to come up a ramp/fog where they don't know if 2 or 3 of you are waiting.
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^i'd love to hear what people think too. in HoN i found that there is rarely coming back from the situation like that unless the oppo team made some huge mistakes (and your team is probably flaming you nonstop lol).
generally from my experience:
1.Suck it up because your solo carry is doing so well and the other lane is totally owning. The game with 1 fat sidelane oppo hero is still winnable. gank him asap.
2.Switch/adjust lane immediately before the sh!t happened.
3.Gank Gank Gank. If all three lanes are doing meh, and your solo carry is not an obsessed ricer, gank the sh!t out them since your chances of winning is low anyway so just gamble on they are bad in reacting to ganks.
4.or just go gank the other lane ie sack the lane. obviously you need good kills on hero/tower to compensate the tower lost/extremely fat solo oppo on that lane.
i found that turtling up/hugging tower is incredibly effective in HoN (like the farming era of dota back then) so i usually just call cc at 15. unless of course i have faith in my team mates lol
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I think of think it's a design flaw in this entire game. Games often drag on very long but at the same time the slippery slope element is quite big. I have seen fighting game people criticize RTS for the slippery slope. But the games are short enough for that and you have a Bo5.
But with HoN and similar games you often play 50 minutes. And lvl and gold are such a big factor. I don't think it was thought out very well what skills you actually want to test and how to do that the best way.
I used to think a lot about improving the RTS genre competitive play wise when Sc2 was in development. I don't really see a good way to do it. But with MOBA games surely there is a lot of room for improvement to the core gameplay.
I am kind of puzzled still about how to play HoN public games. There seem to be a lot of people that aren't interesting in team play despite playing a team game. What they all want is their team to be bad but the opponents to be worse and kill as many enemies all on their own without dying.
So many people always pick a carry and never ward.
Playing support for such people is no fun. I also can't believe how many times I have had games with 5 melee heroes.
I have seen some other people recommend ganking not carry heroes for pub games. They suggest not to play hard carries and not to play support heroes. I have been playing a lot of support heroes. But then when I decide to play another type of hero people rage at you and you can't get them to ward. They tell you to ward. Then after the game it turns out they have a .1 ward a game stat.
The psychology of this game is so puzzling to me. Half the skill of pubbing is how to manipulate your team members into playing better. And this is very hard to do considering the attitude of people. Even people on the winning team will try to needle you for no reason.
I have also never seen someone admit he lost the game for his team and that he was sorry. No, always people are "my team sucks, noob assholes".
Wost thing about this game is when you obviously lost but people don't want to CC. Why? Because they are mad at you for losing and you want to cc so they don't want to.
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Australia8532 Posts
In terms of super late game without the impact of items i think stats gain is pretty important; arachna has a crazy agility gain - i think it's that highest at +3.2 meaning she will scale really well as the levels get higher. Other big ones are dark lady (+3.1) and night hound (+2.9) - there are quite a few agi heroes hovering around the 2.8 mark.
If you combine that with her passive in terms of auto attack damage output arachna is beastly; plus she is ranged. But then again madman does look the coolest so it is a tough one.
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A funny thing in HoN I've seen is a farmed SW become pretty useless late game when everyone on the other team gets a nullstone. His ult literally does nothing if their nullstones are up.
I like Aracna but find her a hard hero to build item wise. What do you guys think of Whispering Helm on her? Seems popular but I'm not convinced. I normally just go straight for geo because I like the disjoint/move speed/hp and then more dmg as needed, either butter/rightshards/mkb.
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On September 07 2011 11:42 bkrow wrote:
In terms of super late game without the impact of items i think stats gain is pretty important; arachna has a crazy agility gain - i think it's that highest at +3.2 meaning she will scale really well as the levels get higher. Other big ones are dark lady (+3.1) and night hound (+2.9) - there are quite a few agi heroes hovering around the 2.8 mark.
If you combine that with her passive in terms of auto attack damage output arachna is beastly; plus she is ranged. But then again madman does look the coolest so it is a tough one.
Yeah. That's why pudge and silencer are the hardest carries since they're the only heroes in the game with unlimited stat growth.
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On September 07 2011 13:22 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2011 11:42 bkrow wrote:
In terms of super late game without the impact of items i think stats gain is pretty important; arachna has a crazy agility gain - i think it's that highest at +3.2 meaning she will scale really well as the levels get higher. Other big ones are dark lady (+3.1) and night hound (+2.9) - there are quite a few agi heroes hovering around the 2.8 mark.
If you combine that with her passive in terms of auto attack damage output arachna is beastly; plus she is ranged. But then again madman does look the coolest so it is a tough one. Yeah. That's why pudge and silencer are the hardest carries since they're the only heroes in the game with unlimited stat growth.
Silencer's int gain will stop once all 5 enemy heroes have 0 int.
Pudge is the hardest carry.
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EPT
