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On July 26 2011 16:59 Looky wrote:
apm... lmao i think it hardly matters in dota/hon seriously. your controlling one unit and maybe a courier
I usually go whispering helm balphagore and ask my teammates to share control of their heroes with me, so yeah it usually does end up being pretty APM intensive, microing special abilities and positioning of 12-15 different units. It ends up being like an hour-long micro-fest at all corners of the map and semi-decent control takes something on the order of 380-400 eapm so don't be discouraged if you keep getting stomped at first.
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Lalalaland34510 Posts
I should try that for fun. Have 4 friends just connect on their computer and share control with you and let you play it out. Guess you'd have to play some fast-ending all-mid strat though. :D
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On July 26 2011 17:07 Ganfei2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 13:43 GhostKorean wrote:On July 25 2011 22:47 XeliN wrote:
If your concentrating on killing creeps, denying, focusing on rune control, trying to harrass your mid opponent effectively to force him to use regen or even leave the lane, ferrying courier items, you dont always have the time to realise when 2 dots on the minimap have not been visible for a short while.
I couldn't tell if your comment was sarcastic, if it wasnt then, yeah, map awareness is hard. wow man play some starcraft I'm not saying "lol ur bad" or anything It's your attitude about the game. Instead of saying "I should improve on this and get better" you're saying "fuck this it's too hard" 99.99999% sure I was far better at SC than you ever were and what he said is 100% valid Saying it's your fault is fucking STUPID, I can guarantee you pro teams dont say "fuck you" to their teammates, they call their missings and keep on top of shit. Everyone knows that even the best miss some shit and to suggest otherwise if purely ignorant.
"I am better than you at starcraft so I, as a more gifted gamer, herein declare, with authority, that what he said is 100% valid."
ro...fl?
What GhostKorean said is 100% valid.
It's all about them attitudes!
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On July 26 2011 17:13 Firebolt145 wrote:
I should try that for fun. Have 4 friends just connect on their computer and share control with you and let you play it out. Guess you'd have to play some fast-ending all-mid strat though. :D
If you're bad. Hotkey 3 control groups, 1 for each lane.
Assuming f1,f2,f3 for each lane, you can cycle through the abilities just using f* and tab. If you trilane, you might want to separately hotkey each of the stunners to avoid this issue.
Last hitting is a bit hard, but once you get the rhythm down, it's not much different from doing a round of macro while microing vultures in BW.
Courier is usually bound to whatever my first unused hotkey is, but sometimes I just rebind ` to a dedicated hotkey group since I only ever use it to select the courier anyway.
An advantage of this approach is you can do things that aren't allowed in competitive play. Back in the day you could actually get a guy on hellbourne bot to pull ancients for you and permadeny creeps while you just sat in tower farming as lego.
Also, pooling potions onto your carry is ridiculous effective for getting him a massive lead in gold/xp early in the game.
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Lalalaland34510 Posts
Tyty for advice, you are obviously very experienced and pro at this
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On July 26 2011 17:19 Gummy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 17:13 Firebolt145 wrote:
I should try that for fun. Have 4 friends just connect on their computer and share control with you and let you play it out. Guess you'd have to play some fast-ending all-mid strat though. :D If you're bad. Hotkey 3 control groups, 1 for each lane. Assuming f1,f2,f3 for each lane, you can cycle through the abilities just using f* and tab. If you trilane, you might want to separately hotkey each of the stunners to avoid this issue. Last hitting is a bit hard, but once you get the rhythm down, it's not much different from doing a round of macro while microing vultures in BW. Courier is usually bound to whatever my first unused hotkey is, but sometimes I just rebind ` to a dedicated hotkey group since I only ever use it to select the courier anyway. An advantage of this approach is you can do things that aren't allowed in competitive play. Back in the day you could actually get a guy on hellbourne bot to pull ancients for you and permadeny creeps while you just sat in tower farming as lego. Also, pooling potions onto your carry is ridiculous effective for getting him a massive lead in gold/xp early in the game.
Wouldn't it be very different to a round of macro in BW. Because of things such as positioning, spells, and 5 brains against you. I think you are being sarcastic so i don't want to go to over the top here 
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On July 26 2011 17:35 SirMilford wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 17:19 Gummy wrote:On July 26 2011 17:13 Firebolt145 wrote:
I should try that for fun. Have 4 friends just connect on their computer and share control with you and let you play it out. Guess you'd have to play some fast-ending all-mid strat though. :D If you're bad. Hotkey 3 control groups, 1 for each lane. Assuming f1,f2,f3 for each lane, you can cycle through the abilities just using f* and tab. If you trilane, you might want to separately hotkey each of the stunners to avoid this issue. Last hitting is a bit hard, but once you get the rhythm down, it's not much different from doing a round of macro while microing vultures in BW. Courier is usually bound to whatever my first unused hotkey is, but sometimes I just rebind ` to a dedicated hotkey group since I only ever use it to select the courier anyway. An advantage of this approach is you can do things that aren't allowed in competitive play. Back in the day you could actually get a guy on hellbourne bot to pull ancients for you and permadeny creeps while you just sat in tower farming as lego. Also, pooling potions onto your carry is ridiculous effective for getting him a massive lead in gold/xp early in the game. Wouldn't it be very different to a round of macro in BW. Because of things such as positioning, spells, and 5 brains against you. I think you are being sarcastic so i don't want to go to over the top here
Let's be real here. For a round of macro, you are selecting a "unit" and pressing a hotkey. In HoN, you are selecting a unit and pressing one of the hotkeys that are conveniently located or bound to the top left-hand corner of your keyboard.
The pace of the game is, generally speaking, much slower. In any given lane, there is on average 1 creep kill available every 3 seconds and 1 safe deny opportunity once every 5 seconds. That's roughly one check/identify/execute cycle every second which is totally doable when you have 400 apm. Regarding positioning, you will be at a disadvantage when you're against insta-kill heroes and are trying to just play defensively and stay in xp range. So usually I set that lane as my default and after doing a rapid cycle through the status of my other lanes, I come back.
This becomes admittedly very taxing when you have to deal with an electrician swiftblade in top lane and say a suc valk in the bottom lane.
On the plus side, it is much easier to coordinate ganks, pushes, and tower defenses. Just tab-4-click tab-4-click tab-4-click for mass tele. And you can just select all the heroes and magic box them forward so you will have a suitable follow-up to initiation. (yes magic boxing works in HoN!)
Edit: regarding 5 brains against you, you presume that all 5 of the opposing team's brains are pushing in the same productive direction. Unless you are against a pre-arranged team or just playing at a competitive level, you will find that of the 5 brains playing, at least 3.5 of them will be working AGAINST one another, trying to fuck each over at every opportunity... holding back on followup to initiation, waiting to ks, competing for farm, etc... In the last patch (I'm not sure if this is a bug or not) but in low level games I've seen BH repeatedly gank his own teammates using silence/deny on low-health heroes. Apparently it counts as a kill and raises KDR.
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Ghostkorean misinterpreted my post anyway. To any of you suggesting a simple "ss" is enough, or even that you shouldnt need miss calls because you ought be fine simply by paying diligent attention to the minimap I'd ask you do this.
Go find any example of a professional HoN game that has been ventcasted, then see the way misses are conveyed there.
Also once you've done this, it would be best if you realised how wrong you are, and if possible go to your nearest catholic church and confess, tears are also a bonus.
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On July 26 2011 17:53 XeliN wrote:
Ghostkorean misinterpreted my post anyway. To any of you suggesting a simple "ss" is enough, or even that you shouldnt need miss calls because you ought be fine simply by paying diligent attention to the minimap I'd ask you do this.
Go find any example of a professional HoN game that has been ventcasted, then see the way misses are conveyed there.
Also once you've done this, it would be best if you realised how wrong you are, and if possible go to your nearest catholic church and confess, tears are also a bonus.
I'm not sure Jesus would forgive such grievous transgressions. There is a special place in hell for those who do not call missing.
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Lalalaland34510 Posts
Gummy care to share a replay of you playing in this manner, ye godly beast?
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I don't know. My pro team doesn't want my releasing replays of any of our IH's. If you shoot me up for some TMM later this week, I'd be glad to give you a demo.
Btw, my ign is "prettybad" and my mmr is almost 1200.
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On July 26 2011 17:09 Gummy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 16:59 Looky wrote:
apm... lmao i think it hardly matters in dota/hon seriously. your controlling one unit and maybe a courier I usually go whispering helm balphagore and ask my teammates to share control of their heroes with me, so yeah it usually does end up being pretty APM intensive, microing special abilities and positioning of 12-15 different units. It ends up being like an hour-long micro-fest at all corners of the map and semi-decent control takes something on the order of 380-400 eapm so don't be discouraged if you keep getting stomped at first.
i dont think this is productive though. hahah letting people control your hero and you trying to control other people hero will really mess up team fights.
notail probably the best hon player atm has about 130 apm. not that much really. i have about 190-200 apm and pretty much no where near him.
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Lalalaland34510 Posts
Gummy, it is obvious that there are lesser-minded individuals in this thread that doubt your inhumane ability to multitask and win alone against a team of five. I suggest you punish them verbally and describe the way you play in even more minute detail.
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On July 26 2011 17:16 don_kyuhote wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 17:07 Ganfei2 wrote:On July 26 2011 13:43 GhostKorean wrote:On July 25 2011 22:47 XeliN wrote:
If your concentrating on killing creeps, denying, focusing on rune control, trying to harrass your mid opponent effectively to force him to use regen or even leave the lane, ferrying courier items, you dont always have the time to realise when 2 dots on the minimap have not been visible for a short while.
I couldn't tell if your comment was sarcastic, if it wasnt then, yeah, map awareness is hard. wow man play some starcraft I'm not saying "lol ur bad" or anything It's your attitude about the game. Instead of saying "I should improve on this and get better" you're saying "fuck this it's too hard" 99.99999% sure I was far better at SC than you ever were and what he said is 100% valid Saying it's your fault is fucking STUPID, I can guarantee you pro teams dont say "fuck you" to their teammates, they call their missings and keep on top of shit. Everyone knows that even the best miss some shit and to suggest otherwise if purely ignorant. "I am better than you at starcraft so I, as a more gifted gamer, herein declare, with authority, that what he said is 100% valid." ro...fl? What GhostKorean said is 100% valid. It's all about them attitudes!
I don't feel that this is a subjective matter either logically, empirically, or realistically.
As someone who was far better at SC and has a far better ability to watch the minimap I'm telling you that the best of the best players aren't 100% infallible at watching the minimap and they miss shit all the time, and calling missing is both a courtesy and a necessity. It might have less impact on shit levels of play but its still valid. And I have no interest in bragging about anything, I simply say that I was good at SC relatively speaking to show that minimap awareness is not going to save you from ganks and that even extremely good players will still die depending on all sorts of factors.
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Lalalaland34510 Posts
On a serious note, I'm on Ganfei's side about this. If you want to play as a team, you need to help each other. Calling misses also helps as you can be a bit more detailed...is he going back to base, being low on HP? Did he just get a new item? Or is he heading towards the rune spot? Even if you've got a permanent eye on the minimap, you cannot grab all that detail from it.
What I do find funny is when we're 20+ minutes into the game and everyone is running around ganking each other, when someone suddenly dies and shouts WTF WHY DIDN'T YOU CALL MISS, HE WAS IN YOUR LANE 15 MINUTES AGO SO HE IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY
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On July 26 2011 18:49 Firebolt145 wrote:
On a serious note, I'm on Ganfei's side about this. If you want to play as a team, you need to help each other. Calling misses also helps as you can be a bit more detailed...is he going back to base, being low on HP? Did he just get a new item? Or is he heading towards the rune spot? Even if you've got a permanent eye on the minimap, you cannot grab all that detail from it.
What I do find funny is when we're 20+ minutes into the game and everyone is running around ganking each other, when someone suddenly dies and shouts WTF WHY DIDN'T YOU CALL MISS, HE WAS IN YOUR LANE 15 MINUTES AGO SO HE IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY
I too find that exquisitely hilarious. I nearly spilt a drop of my Earl Gray English breakfast tea onto my silk tablecloth. Fortunately, I was able to produce a biscuit in time to intercept the aberrant particles of sap-flavored liquid.
Miss calls are like biscuits and ganks or unexpected rune grabs are like those rogue drops of tea.
My analogies are flawless.
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Lalalaland34510 Posts
I applaud your analogy. It is a pity that the unbeliever who calls himself 'Looky' is not from the educated Great Britain, and thus will probably look with disdain upon your intelligent postings.
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On July 26 2011 17:53 XeliN wrote:
Ghostkorean misinterpreted my post anyway. To any of you suggesting a simple "ss" is enough, or even that you shouldnt need miss calls because you ought be fine simply by paying diligent attention to the minimap I'd ask you do this.
Go find any example of a professional HoN game that has been ventcasted, then see the way misses are conveyed there.
Also once you've done this, it would be best if you realised how wrong you are, and if possible go to your nearest catholic church and confess, tears are also a bonus.
Yes Proteams communicate well. They are pro for a reason.
What exactly is your point?
I'm not saying that SS calling is enough or that completely not calling an MIA is good...what I am saying is that in a pub you better learn to live without that or you're just going to die all the time.
That's it. You can't avoid ALL ganks by looking at the minimap but you can avoid the vast majority of them frankly.
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On July 26 2011 19:22 Firebolt145 wrote:
I applaud your analogy. It is a pity that the unbeliever who calls himself 'Looky' is not from the educated Great Britain, and thus will probably look with disdain upon your intelligent postings.
trololol.
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Lalalaland34510 Posts
Had to make it obvious enough for you to figure it out. 
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EPT
