EPTYou've never been ganked before? ~_~
[HoN/DotA] Let's Play~!! - Page 1206
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alia
United States294 Posts
You've never been ganked before? ~_~ | ||
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GhostKorean
United States2330 Posts
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alia
United States294 Posts
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GhostKorean
United States2330 Posts
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
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GhostKorean
United States2330 Posts
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CrownRoyal
Vatican City State1872 Posts
leaves u with 253 gold with q spam u easily have bottle by 2 minute mark | ||
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alia
United States294 Posts
On March 18 2011 16:18 GhostKorean wrote: But you keep the bottle forever, bottle runes with it, and can ferry it back and forth while consumables are gone after you use them Bottle first is inefficient. Grabbing it later is fine. | ||
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GhostKorean
United States2330 Posts
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BlueRoyaL
United States2493 Posts
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Shinbi
338 Posts
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Glull
Germany404 Posts
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Narcind
Sweden2489 Posts
On March 18 2011 17:05 BlueRoyaL wrote: n0tail does it. enuff said. :D You mean crowtail? Bottle first is fine on thunderbringer, but he's just about the only hero in the game it's fine on because you can spam q to farm and harass quite well, and even then you more or less need to get the 2 min rune or you're going to have a hard time vs a lot of heroes. | ||
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don_kyuhote
3007 Posts
On March 18 2011 12:34 icemac wrote: Travis, you're so cute ^^ I think Rabid is expecting yours next ray, for your MoM Invoker. | ||
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NeonFlare
Finland1307 Posts
Quite annoying. | ||
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Heen
Korea (South)2178 Posts
Only haste and regen are 'good' for him. I'm not saying bottle is bad on zeus at all. In fact it's pretty standard. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On March 18 2011 21:53 Heen wrote: You don't get bottle first because you don't check for runes for the 1st 2 minutes and the lack of stats does make a noticeable difference. A lot of people do go for cheap starting items (leave 200-300) gold and go fast bottle depending on who you're laning against. Beastmaster does that a lot. Problem with fast bottle zeus is that he doesn't get full effectiveness from runes. Only haste and regen are 'good' for him. I'm not saying bottle is bad on zeus at all. In fact it's pretty standard. I don't know if Bottle fits in his progression any more to be honest. Arcane Boots seems like a better progression as you're more than likely not to sit in the lane (mid of all places) after a certain point. If someone else on your team has bottle, especially a ganker, I would skip bottle all together and let them rune control. But yeah, no bottle first unless you like losing your lane in last hitting. Missing a rune = 2 mins of free farm against you. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
3 tangos have the same amount of hp regen as a full bottle. 90 gold vs 600. An hp pot has more and is 1/6th the cost. One mana potion is slightly more than a bottle charge (85 mana per charge, 100 per pot), 150 vs 600 (for 3 clarity pots). Bottle first has no point unless you are bottle ferrying or 100% know you have rune control (valk with leap, hag) which you won't vs any competent team (the supports from the trilane will be sitting near the rune). There is some matchup and hero dependency stuff as well. Bottle first is fine vs melee gank heroes like pebbles or gauntlet because really, they can't exactly harass you so you don't need regen. Also if you get a regen at the 00 nothing besides bottle first can use it, but bottle first with it is almost unbeatable (the 00 rune really is kind of dumb and can swing some heroes so heavily). Someone like Flint with a low base damage benefits more from + 8 agi build (2 duck boots, 2 totems). SS does as well unless you're like pro at last hitting and don't need damage (he's really common to see bottle rushing on). To storify it : Let's say we have two flint (sniper) laning vs an ss (sf) games. The first game the Flint goes bottle first (why? why? why on flint?) and the shadowfiend went a full build, 2 duck boots, 2 totems, potion+tangos. Flint's damage is under SS's. The soulstealer's damage starts 8 damage over flints and by the 5th minute of the game the Flint is about 40 damage under the soulstealer. The flint has 7 ck and 4 or 5 denies while the SS has his bottle and is ahead by like 900 gold... before he gets to nuke every lane for free. I see this happen a lot. This is what would happen assuming the people were relatively equal in skill, with maybe a slightly better SS, even though Flint's animation is really ridiculous. If he gets stat items the lane is probably equal and he can get his bottle by the 3 minute mark. edit : so hard to balance between dota and hon terms. totems are branches, runes are tangos, hag qop, valk mirana | ||
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Heen
Korea (South)2178 Posts
On March 18 2011 22:43 Judicator wrote: I don't know if Bottle fits in his progression any more to be honest. Arcane Boots seems like a better progression as you're more than likely not to sit in the lane (mid of all places) after a certain point. If someone else on your team has bottle, especially a ganker, I would skip bottle all together and let them rune control. But yeah, no bottle first unless you like losing your lane in last hitting. Missing a rune = 2 mins of free farm against you. well zeus solo mid is pretty rare in dota at least and I haven't played enough HoN to talk about thunderbringer but if you're soloing mid, you're gonna have some easy runes up for grabs so bottle, while not great for his item progression, is solid considering how cheap it is (esp. including sell value of 300). Take shadow fiend for instance, you raze and right click for harassment in lane and you sip bottle for both your lost hp and mana. All the runes are extremely helpful for him. Zeus on the other hand leans heavily towards mana but whatever. It's not worth having a detailed discussion about. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On March 18 2011 23:24 Heen wrote: well zeus solo mid is pretty rare in dota at least and I haven't played enough HoN to talk about thunderbringer but if you're soloing mid, you're gonna have some easy runes up for grabs so bottle, while not great for his item progression, is solid considering how cheap it is (esp. including sell value of 300). Take shadow fiend for instance, you raze and right click for harassment in lane and you sip bottle for both your lost hp and mana. All the runes are extremely helpful for him. Zeus on the other hand leans heavily towards mana but whatever. It's not worth having a detailed discussion about. tb mid in hon is really common because of hon items, specifically striders let him move at 450 ms when not ganking or laning (free rune control, makes bottle more useful for him) and after striders spellshards for 2700 reduce magic armor of opponents by 2/4/6 (1000 recipe cost). I sometimes see zeus buy 4 mana potions and a flying courier then rush a bottle and ferry it. Not as good since the 2/3 fill nerf. | ||
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