On March 18 2011 17:05 BlueRoyaL wrote: n0tail does it. enuff said. :D
You mean crowtail?
Bottle first is fine on thunderbringer, but he's just about the only hero in the game it's fine on because you can spam q to farm and harass quite well, and even then you more or less need to get the 2 min rune or you're going to have a hard time vs a lot of heroes.
On March 18 2011 02:41 JeeJee wrote: lol stop arguing with rakanishu he has to be trolling all of his conclusions come from two assumptions that were already empirically proven wrong: 1) that there's more hero variety in hon and 2) that there's more item variety in hon given wrong assumptions it follows that any conclusions he makes are also wrong logic 101 folks
p.s. lol @ 1734 being decent psr. one of my accounts is 1770 with a 92% winrate over the last 25 games and all i did was fuck around going shit like lothars on legio with a buddy or 2, yeah real competition there brah
From a strict logical standpoint, when somebody makes an argument P -> Q and you prove that P is false, you do not immediately get the converse notP -> notQ.
For example: if you are in heaven (P) then you have died (Q). On the other hand, if you are not in heaven, that doesn't mean you're not dead. You could very well be in hell!
So basically your statement that "given wrong assumptions it follow that any conclusions he makes are also wrong" is not correct. A better statement is "given wrong assumptions it follow that any conclusions he makes are not necessarily correct."
P -> Q implies that !Q -> !P logic 101
playing with huk was fun tho, though he did BM testie quite a bit :< thought he'd be cooler than that anyways, having him around made lots of people suddenly wanna play which was great :D never seen an IH fill up that fast x_x even after the game was 22/22, i still got 1398745 requests for people to join, it was hectic
On March 18 2011 02:41 JeeJee wrote: lol stop arguing with rakanishu he has to be trolling all of his conclusions come from two assumptions that were already empirically proven wrong: 1) that there's more hero variety in hon and 2) that there's more item variety in hon given wrong assumptions it follows that any conclusions he makes are also wrong logic 101 folks
p.s. lol @ 1734 being decent psr. one of my accounts is 1770 with a 92% winrate over the last 25 games and all i did was fuck around going shit like lothars on legio with a buddy or 2, yeah real competition there brah
From a strict logical standpoint, when somebody makes an argument P -> Q and you prove that P is false, you do not immediately get the converse notP -> notQ.
For example: if you are in heaven (P) then you have died (Q). On the other hand, if you are not in heaven, that doesn't mean you're not dead. You could very well be in hell!
So basically your statement that "given wrong assumptions it follow that any conclusions he makes are also wrong" is not correct. A better statement is "given wrong assumptions it follow that any conclusions he makes are not necessarily correct."
P -> Q implies that !Q -> !P logic 101
playing with huk was fun tho, though he did BM testie quite a bit :< thought he'd be cooler than that anyways, having him around made lots of people suddenly wanna play which was great :D never seen an IH fill up that fast x_x even after the game was 22/22, i still got 1398745 requests for people to join, it was hectic
On March 18 2011 02:41 JeeJee wrote: lol stop arguing with rakanishu he has to be trolling all of his conclusions come from two assumptions that were already empirically proven wrong: 1) that there's more hero variety in hon and 2) that there's more item variety in hon given wrong assumptions it follows that any conclusions he makes are also wrong logic 101 folks
p.s. lol @ 1734 being decent psr. one of my accounts is 1770 with a 92% winrate over the last 25 games and all i did was fuck around going shit like lothars on legio with a buddy or 2, yeah real competition there brah
From a strict logical standpoint, when somebody makes an argument P -> Q and you prove that P is false, you do not immediately get the converse notP -> notQ.
For example: if you are in heaven (P) then you have died (Q). On the other hand, if you are not in heaven, that doesn't mean you're not dead. You could very well be in hell!
So basically your statement that "given wrong assumptions it follow that any conclusions he makes are also wrong" is not correct. A better statement is "given wrong assumptions it follow that any conclusions he makes are not necessarily correct."
P -> Q implies that !Q -> !P logic 101
playing with huk was fun tho, though he did BM testie quite a bit :< thought he'd be cooler than that anyways, having him around made lots of people suddenly wanna play which was great :D never seen an IH fill up that fast x_x even after the game was 22/22, i still got 1398745 requests for people to join, it was hectic
On March 18 2011 17:05 BlueRoyaL wrote: n0tail does it. enuff said. :D
You mean crowtail?
Bottle first is fine on thunderbringer, but he's just about the only hero in the game it's fine on because you can spam q to farm and harass quite well, and even then you more or less need to get the 2 min rune or you're going to have a hard time vs a lot of heroes.
madman? solo long lane or mid?
Well yeah, he's actually my favourite hero and I bottle first on him whenever I'm going solo, but I've always felt that it's not optimal, unless you have a flying courier as a backup, in case you cant get the 2 minute rune.
But, point taken, I definitely should've included madman.
On March 18 2011 23:04 Nevuk wrote: Bottle first is inefficient due to cost and lack of stats. If you want a bottle and are mid you should just do a bottle rush build, which is 3 tangos and two totems (200ish gold, you have 400 left over and only need 3 ck and a few seconds to get the bottle). This is far superior to bottle first in most instances, the exceptions are that it makes you super vulnerable to early ganks as you can lose your bottle money and get really far behind. But if you really want to get into the whys of why it's inefficient to bottle first...
3 tangos have the same amount of hp regen as a full bottle. 90 gold vs 600. An hp pot has more and is 1/6th the cost. One mana potion is slightly more than a bottle charge (85 mana per charge, 100 per pot), 150 vs 600 (for 3 clarity pots). Bottle first has no point unless you are bottle ferrying or 100% know you have rune control (valk with leap, hag) which you won't vs any competent team (the supports from the trilane will be sitting near the rune).
There is some matchup and hero dependency stuff as well. Bottle first is fine vs melee gank heroes like pebbles or gauntlet because really, they can't exactly harass you so you don't need regen. Also if you get a regen at the 00 nothing besides bottle first can use it, but bottle first with it is almost unbeatable (the 00 rune really is kind of dumb and can swing some heroes so heavily).
Someone like Flint with a low base damage benefits more from + 8 agi build (2 duck boots, 2 totems). SS does as well unless you're like pro at last hitting and don't need damage (he's really common to see bottle rushing on).
To storify it : Let's say we have two flint (sniper) laning vs an ss (sf) games. The first game the Flint goes bottle first (why? why? why on flint?) and the shadowfiend went a full build, 2 duck boots, 2 totems, potion+tangos. Flint's damage is under SS's. The soulstealer's damage starts 8 damage over flints and by the 5th minute of the game the Flint is about 40 damage under the soulstealer. The flint has 7 ck and 4 or 5 denies while the SS has his bottle and is ahead by like 900 gold... before he gets to nuke every lane for free. I see this happen a lot. This is what would happen assuming the people were relatively equal in skill, with maybe a slightly better SS, even though Flint's animation is really ridiculous. If he gets stat items the lane is probably equal and he can get his bottle by the 3 minute mark.
edit : so hard to balance between dota and hon terms. totems are branches, runes are tangos, hag qop, valk mirana
Yes but I am talking specifically about Thunderbringer(Zeus)...
On March 19 2011 06:44 BlueRoyaL wrote: is there any way a flint can beat bh mid? it seems impossible, without your team ganking for you atleast
hammer flint mid and rofl at your free farm =D. I used to run that lane vs blood seeker in dota all the time with sniper/sven (sven bottle first and just throw hammers at bs all the time + rune whore/gank side lanes). Eventually you'll have treads/phase and be same level as bh and you just dominate the lane because he can't come close. Get a tp by level 6 so he cant rupture kill you and you should be fine.
On March 19 2011 06:44 BlueRoyaL wrote: is there any way a flint can beat bh mid? it seems impossible, without your team ganking for you atleast
yes, there is - you just have to outplay him. if all you want is to "beat" the bh mid start with 3 duck boots, a totem and runes and get a crushing claw asap - the rest depends on your ability to control a lane. you can easily practice this 1on1 with friends to improve, and its definitely not impossible at that skill level.
edit: @alven: relying on your team is cheating here! boo! :>
On March 18 2011 02:41 JeeJee wrote: lol stop arguing with rakanishu he has to be trolling all of his conclusions come from two assumptions that were already empirically proven wrong: 1) that there's more hero variety in hon and 2) that there's more item variety in hon given wrong assumptions it follows that any conclusions he makes are also wrong logic 101 folks
p.s. lol @ 1734 being decent psr. one of my accounts is 1770 with a 92% winrate over the last 25 games and all i did was fuck around going shit like lothars on legio with a buddy or 2, yeah real competition there brah
From a strict logical standpoint, when somebody makes an argument P -> Q and you prove that P is false, you do not immediately get the converse notP -> notQ.
For example: if you are in heaven (P) then you have died (Q). On the other hand, if you are not in heaven, that doesn't mean you're not dead. You could very well be in hell!
So basically your statement that "given wrong assumptions it follow that any conclusions he makes are also wrong" is not correct. A better statement is "given wrong assumptions it follow that any conclusions he makes are not necessarily correct."
P -> Q implies that !Q -> !P logic 101
playing with huk was fun tho, though he did BM testie quite a bit :< thought he'd be cooler than that anyways, having him around made lots of people suddenly wanna play which was great :D never seen an IH fill up that fast x_x even after the game was 22/22, i still got 1398745 requests for people to join, it was hectic
nerd celebrities srs business
why aren't you sleeping?
I WAS sleeping. I browse TL in my sleep.
I don't like sniper vs bs (bh) because your base damage is shit compared to his. pms makes the pellets much more bearable, and there are always much stronger lanes against BH anyway
http://www.facebook.com/heroesofnewerth?sk=app_136332613076618 Free 200 gold coins for HoN's facebook page reaching 500k followers woohoooo Takes a while to get the coins, didn't get mine yet edit: apparently it bugs if you don't put only your username. fail :\
On March 19 2011 10:56 GhostKorean wrote: http://www.facebook.com/heroesofnewerth?sk=app_136332613076618 Free 200 gold coins for HoN's facebook page reaching 500k followers woohoooo Takes a while to get the coins, didn't get mine yet edit: apparently it bugs if you don't put only your username. fail :\
If you read the fine prints. It will arrive a week from when they hit 500,000 fans. So probably if you do it today - next week friday.
EPT
good series of IH's, lets do it again sometimes
