EPTStormgate/Frost Giant Megathread - Page 221
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_Spartak_
Turkey442 Posts
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ChillFlame
227 Posts
I think you're *cough* "Spreading misinformation", sir. | ||
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ChillFlame
227 Posts
Compared to SG DoW3 has: 5.28 times higher all-time player count (which is the most important metric, apparently) 2.59 times higher daily player count 2% better review score, and 33% better recent review score. https://steamdb.info/app/285190/charts/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/285190/Warhammer_40000_Dawn_of_War_III/ | ||
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_Spartak_
Turkey442 Posts
On January 26 2025 02:22 ChillFlame wrote: The point was not about whether SG is succeeding or not. It was about whether these games at RTS Fest have the potential to be the savior for the "RTS esports". They don't.Yeah, sure, find one irrelevant metric in which SG isn't one of the worst RTS of all time and value it like it's the most important one. Ignore all relevant metrics (concurrent player count, player retention, review score, etc). I think you're *cough* "Spreading misinformation", sir. | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5454 Posts
The original post was that RTS fest shows there's more than one "last chance for RTS". Spartak mentions that the top game so far has about 1.4K max players, where SG had 5K. The point is that there's currently no new RTS games that are generating any traction when it comes to a future esport, including Stormgate. No one (including Spartak) is arguing that SG is some major success. | ||
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ChillFlame
227 Posts
On January 26 2025 04:41 SoleSteeler wrote: What are you even talking about, ChillFlame? The original post was that RTS fest shows there's more than one "last chance for RTS". Spartak mentions that the top game so far has about 1.4K max players, where SG had 5K. The point is that there's currently no new RTS games that are generating any traction when it comes to a future esport, including Stormgate. No one (including Spartak) is arguing that SG is some major success. Why do we need new RTS to save the day? SC2 is alive and had its biggest tournament recently, AoE has expanded a lot. Both in the player count and new games. There's an original post quote. Looks like since SC2 not at IEM Katowice stormgate is the last chance for RTS esports. Let's all cheer on stormgate and hope they succeed! Love their game and support for RTS sake. The discussion was about SG from the start. I voiced my opinion on why it won't be the case with some stats and numbers. | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5454 Posts
I don't think the SC2 esports scene will completely "die" but if none of the above change, the scene is vastly smaller and I imagine the amount of pro players will also shrink considerably. There is void to be filled for a big RTS that draws crowds at live events. Unless Stormgate delivers on their big overhauls then no, it won't be them. Maybe I should start paying more attention to AoE. | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1841 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17107 Posts
On January 26 2025 03:52 _Spartak_ wrote: The point was not about whether SG is succeeding or not. It was about whether these games at RTS Fest have the potential to be the savior for the "RTS esports". They don't. this is an ill defined, meaningless standard. Steam's initiative looks cool to me. Its an excuse to put a bunch of really old games on steep discounts while bringing in some new players and promoting some new RTS games. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. Northgard sits around 4,000 concurrents. AoE2 ~25,000. AoE3 ~6,000. The C&C games have ~3,000 concurrents. DoW1 ~ 2,500. Age of Mythology games ~ 4,000. Hell, Halo Wars 2 has a competitive scene. The genre is rolling along just fine. Part of Frost Giant's marketing push is to make it seem like they are solving some big problem. " We have a crisis folks.. we don't have 20 million paid monthly WoW subscribers! It is a disaster! Give me some money so I can make an MMO! " OK man, whatever. KUDOS to Valve/Steam for putting on the RTS fest. It was great. Rogue Command looks pretty cool. Steam's RTS Fest did a great job promoting it. Games like this bring new and different experiences to the genre. https://store.steampowered.com/app/1461910/Rogue_Command/ Keeping the RTS Fest going for an entire week rather than just a weekend was a brilliant move. It allows people with careers and full time jobs to dip in on the 1 day a week they have available to play around on their computers a shot at checking things out. The RTS crowd is an older crowd and most should be well into the gainful employment stages of their lives at ~37 years old. All-in-all the Steam RTS Fest was great. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26210 Posts
On January 26 2025 21:18 JimmyJRaynor wrote: this is an ill defined, meaningless standard. Steam's initiative looks cool to me. Its an excuse to put a bunch of really old games on steep discounts while bringing in some new players and promoting some new RTS games. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. Northgard sits around 4,000 concurrents. AoE2 ~25,000. AoE3 ~6,000. The C&C games have ~3,000 concurrents. DoW1 ~ 2,500. Age of Mythology games ~ 4,000. Hell, Halo Wars 2 has a competitive scene. The genre is rolling along just fine. Part of Frost Giant's marketing push is to make it seem like they are solving some big problem. " We have a crisis folks.. we don't have 20 million paid monthly WoW subscribers! It is a disaster! Give me some money so I can make an MMO! " OK man, whatever. KUDOS to Valve/Steam for putting on the RTS fest. It was great. Rogue Command looks pretty cool. Steam's RTS Fest did a great job promoting it. Games like this bring new and different experiences to the genre. https://store.steampowered.com/app/1461910/Rogue_Command/ Keeping the RTS Fest going for an entire week rather than just a weekend was a brilliant move. It allows people with careers and full time jobs to dip in on the 1 day a week they have available to play around on their computers a shot at checking things out. The RTS crowd is an older crowd and most should be well into the gainful employment stages of their lives at ~37 years old. All-in-all the Steam RTS Fest was great. Except it’s abundantly, abundantly clear what standard people are talking about here. RTSFest is cool, there’s plenty of decent games coming up, or old gems to (re)discover. But there’s nothing that looks capable of taking the mantle that SC2 has/had, much less a ‘StarCraft killer’. All three can be simultaneously true, as can be ‘Stormgate isn’t looking like that game’ as well. Hell, Tim Morten and FG only raised all that money by stressing their connections to those Blizzard games and saying ‘we’ll make the closest thing to SC3 on the market’. Hey, I’ve had a grand old time with various games lately, and will continue to do so. Is there a game where 10-15 folks I know RL are/were regularly online in that game, including then-RTS newbies, having enough bodies to do LANs at a slightly higher cadence than annually, do a tournament viewing party in a local bar etc? Or have me accumulate 20K posts in a forum around ye olde game? Like, probably not! But hey to be fair few folks get to have that experience with their game genre of choice. It’s daft I think to proclaim RTS as dead, we’re in a pretty decent age for it. Plenty of good titles, enough players to find quick games in a multitude of titles that are more multiplayer-focused even. Contrasted with arena shooters as a genre that genuinely is super struggling. But it’s equally daft to make out there’s a title that’s taking the mantle that SC2 had/has in the immediate future. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6790 Posts
What i mean is Stormgate can be the best game ever that if Frost Giant actually dont put millions u could forget about esports. Unless they reach a partnership with some other company but that is already going to the direction of if this . if that. And in most of cases companies put their money in fresh games. Cuz there is higher potential of return compared to old games. But you know all that i guess. SG is not looking right now like a game that is going to sell millions of skins and fund their esports. U you will see the ocasional 5k - 10k tourneys. At the start and that is pretty much it. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17107 Posts
On January 26 2025 22:04 WombaT wrote: But it’s equally daft to make out there’s a title that’s taking the mantle that SC2 had/has in the immediate future. It is still a made up problem. If the inability to attend 5,000+ person events revolving around an RTS is a somewhat serious life issue for someone... he or she has got a pretty good life going. The opening of Blizzcon 2015 ain't never happenin' again. Does that matter? There are 87 bazillion ways to have fun. Pick one. On January 26 2025 22:21 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: I have seen a lot of people talking about esports and what can be esports etc. Do you guys know that most of the time Esports are funded by publishing money right ? They use it as a way of marketing for their game. It was also really rare that Blizzard kept funding SC2 for as long as they did when they werent getting much from it really. And not even pushing for new Starcraft products. ATVI was awesome! | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1841 Posts
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ChillFlame
227 Posts
I think SG misses gacha mechanics. It would explain everything. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26210 Posts
On January 26 2025 22:54 JimmyJRaynor wrote: It is still a made up problem. If the inability to attend 5,000+ person events revolving around an RTS is a somewhat serious life issue for someone... he or she has got a pretty good life going. The opening of Blizzcon 2015 ain't never happenin' again. Does that matter? There are 87 bazillion ways to have fun. Pick one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EOqKxZX3b4 ATVI was awesome! Your inability to communicate or take on board the positions of other folks truly can be staggering at times. How does ‘hey it would be nice to have something similar to SC2’s heyday’ morph into ‘life sucks without that’ lmao? On January 26 2025 22:21 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: I have seen a lot of people talking about esports and what can be esports etc. Do you guys know that most of the time Esports are funded by publishing money right ? They use it as a way of marketing for their game. It was also really rare that Blizzard kept funding SC2 for as long as they did when they werent getting much from it really. And not even pushing for new Starcraft products. What i mean is Stormgate can be the best game ever that if Frost Giant actually dont put millions u could forget about esports. Unless they reach a partnership with some other company but that is already going to the direction of if this . if that. And in most of cases companies put their money in fresh games. Cuz there is higher potential of return compared to old games. But you know all that i guess. SG is not looking right now like a game that is going to sell millions of skins and fund their esports. U you will see the ocasional 5k - 10k tourneys. At the start and that is pretty much it. Yeah, I think people have long held eSports really breaking through as some inevitability, but it’s been how long now? It’s bloody hard to actually make money from it for most stakeholders, and nobody’s really cracked it wholesale. So you’re kinda left relying on benefactors of various kinds. I wonder if the maturation of streaming/VoD content ultimately ended up filling the niche that people assumed eSports would. It’s a less cutthroat day-to-day to make money (ofc hard to get established). Creators form something of a trusted bond with viewers (sometimes to an unhealthy degree), which is absolute gold dust to sponsors who can leverage that to directly target certain audiences. Massively generalising ofc, it feels I’m in a certain age demographic where competition and tournaments captured the imagination of many. Older people would be skeptical about the validity of eSports, and younger folks primarily consume gaming more through the personalities they like than for high-stakes competition. | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1841 Posts
On January 29 2025 02:04 CicadaSC wrote: I see a lot of people suggesting the 3v3 mode is going to be like a MobA, but actually, it seems FPS games are more popular these days. Should they add some FPS RTS hybrid elements to this new mode? What would be the general interest in stormgate getting some FPS elements in their new 3v3 mode, any interest in that? Assuming they could pull it off well. | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1841 Posts
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ScoutWBF
Germany630 Posts
The game also had unit research instead of simple building requirements. Would be an interesting take. Could alao throw in some Z zone control gameplay for production. | ||
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JamesmJimlawther
11 Posts
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_Spartak_
Turkey442 Posts
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