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On August 29 2020 09:42 kramvti wrote:
To be fair, D2 was very different from D1.
And since when was Reaper's Toll seem as OP?
Was D2 more different from D1 than D3 from D2?
And I wasn't talking of RT as being OP on the character. It kind of ties in to the whole "not all mercs being equal" and since everyone and their mother are using Act 2 merc the best weapon for them bar none is RT, regardless of your build (there might be super niche cases when you'd use something else but for 99.9% of cases this is what you get).
I don't really consider those things too OP, they're just too good and too prevalent. I'd like a bit more diversity in the builds and gearing, that's all.
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About the same difference really imo.
Reaper's is a very good merc weapon, I agree, but crushing blow is better than decrep on a merc. I tested this a lot, particularly after making that fury mutt.
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On August 30 2020 16:03 kramvti wrote:
About the same difference really imo.
Reaper's is a very good merc weapon, I agree, but crushing blow is better than decrep on a merc. I tested this a lot, particularly after making that fury mutt.
To me it wasn't that much difference. It was pretty easy to get everything in D2 after D1 while D3 took me a while.
And Reaper's is awesome on mercs to break immunities since mercs deal like 75% less damage in hell anyway. I've always considered them just utility for carrying decrep, auras etc.
Now I have this crazy idea of running my blizzballer with act 3 cold merc with some items like phoenix, dragon breath etc. so that I can double down on fire and ice theme. I would love to run him with Infinity instead but all of the coolest runewords are for polearms 
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On August 30 2020 22:04 Manit0u wrote:To me it wasn't that much difference. It was pretty easy to get everything in D2 after D1 while D3 took me a while. And Reaper's is awesome on mercs to break immunities since mercs deal like 75% less damage in hell anyway. I've always considered them just utility for carrying decrep, auras etc. Now I have this crazy idea of running my blizzballer with act 3 cold merc with some items like phoenix, dragon breath etc. so that I can double down on fire and ice theme. I would love to run him with Infinity instead but all of the coolest runewords are for polearms
Fair enough. The styles seemed quite different to me.
Crushing blow is not subject to this damage penalty. Though iirc there is something that diminishes...it has been so long that I am starting to forget the specifics of some of these things. Still, CB is percent of remaining health. This is huge on the first handful of strikes.
Yup. To make the A1 and A3 mercs viable, you have to spend a lot comparitively. The cold one is the better route.
I agree this conversation has made me pretty nostalgic as well. I almost installed it again, but have so far held firm on not doing so. The only thing consistently dangerous left are Pit Vipers. I am honestly pretty surprised they have not nerfed them into the ground. (Integer Damage Reduction ftw!).
I do really wish that they would get closer in D2 than D3 in the upcoming D4. I miss the pacing of D2 a lot. I miss the simplicity of form, but very interesting underlying mechanics which simply were not there in D3.
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On August 31 2020 17:40 kramvti wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2020 22:04 Manit0u wrote:To me it wasn't that much difference. It was pretty easy to get everything in D2 after D1 while D3 took me a while. And Reaper's is awesome on mercs to break immunities since mercs deal like 75% less damage in hell anyway. I've always considered them just utility for carrying decrep, auras etc. Now I have this crazy idea of running my blizzballer with act 3 cold merc with some items like phoenix, dragon breath etc. so that I can double down on fire and ice theme. I would love to run him with Infinity instead but all of the coolest runewords are for polearms Fair enough. The styles seemed quite different to me.
Well, styles might be somewhat different but core mechanics remained largerly unchanged. The same can be said about items having similar properties. Basically, D2 took stuff from D1 and expanded on it (more item variety, skills, class items, set items, runewords etc.) while D3 scrapped pretty much everything except some lore and went in completely new direction.
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The literal skill tree makes me happy... it reminds me more of the D2 customization over the D3 linear unlocking, which is a plus in my book. More spec permutations is much appreciated. I'm also definitely gonna play as a Sorc at some point, so this is good news.
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I like the idea of every class having something unique like the arsenal for the barb and the sorc's enchantments. However I don't know how I feel about the shown meteor example, it seems a bit underwhelming and too similar to stuff we've already seen before.
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its funny cause during D3 dev it was said by representatives that "skill trees were (thankfully) a thing of the past" or such thing, glad this attitude has disappeared skill trees can be great
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On October 03 2020 01:36 ProMeTheus112 wrote:
its funny cause during D3 dev it was said by representatives that "skill trees were (thankfully) a thing of the past" or such thing, glad this attitude has disappeared skill trees can be great
D3 was made in a way to try to make it approachable to the masses. This includes respecs to your heart's content, simplified systems, and leads to a lack of depth. At least they seem to be looking a bit more towards players that actually like playing arpg's rather than trying to get everyone to play arpg's.
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On October 03 2020 07:31 misominja wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2020 01:43 kramvti wrote:On October 03 2020 01:36 ProMeTheus112 wrote:
its funny cause during D3 dev it was said by representatives that "skill trees were (thankfully) a thing of the past" or such thing, glad this attitude has disappeared skill trees can be great D3 was made in a way to try to make it approachable to the masses. This includes respecs to your heart's content, simplified systems, and leads to a lack of depth. At least they seem to be looking a bit more towards players that actually like playing arpg's rather than trying to get everyone to play arpg's. Why cant you just spec whatever you want in Diablo 3? Can you do that in Diablo 2, and its just as effective as every other build?
Making every build the 'same effectiveness' means there is no reason to bother to be creative.
I quit D2 when they introduced respec and got rid of Iron Maiden. At least there, it took a modicum of effort to actually do a respec. Having no cost to those types of changes makes it boring to me.
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On October 03 2020 13:19 misominja wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2020 12:21 kramvti wrote:On October 03 2020 07:31 misominja wrote:On October 03 2020 01:43 kramvti wrote:On October 03 2020 01:36 ProMeTheus112 wrote:
its funny cause during D3 dev it was said by representatives that "skill trees were (thankfully) a thing of the past" or such thing, glad this attitude has disappeared skill trees can be great D3 was made in a way to try to make it approachable to the masses. This includes respecs to your heart's content, simplified systems, and leads to a lack of depth. At least they seem to be looking a bit more towards players that actually like playing arpg's rather than trying to get everyone to play arpg's. Why cant you just spec whatever you want in Diablo 3? Can you do that in Diablo 2, and its just as effective as every other build? Making every build the 'same effectiveness' means there is no reason to bother to be creative. I quit D2 when they introduced respec and got rid of Iron Maiden. At least there, it took a modicum of effort to actually do a respec. Having no cost to those types of changes makes it boring to me. I could click every talent in Diablo 2 and have every spell avaible at any point. How does this have any depth/creativity? Why cant you be creative picking 6 spells?
Just because you can click on every talent in D2 doesn't necessarily mean you should. And what's the point of having a skill tree when you don't have to make meaningful choices and you can just pick every talent?? You can't do that in real life, why should a game allow you not to sacrifice anything for your choice? And that's how it works in D2, too btw..
Yes you can be creative by picking 6 or more skills, but it'll most likely suck. Because every arpg meta ever revolves around maximizing the dmg and killing everything in 1 hit. The more you spread your talents, the less likely you are to hit that threshold, it's simple math.
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d3 limits you to just picking 7 skills, which don't even define your character since you can just switch them around at any time depending where you're going or whatever, in D2 you can use up to 16 skills (yes it's effective if you build it well) and you can tweak around all these skills with values using a total of 110 points approx. lot more depth. and yes you have to think about how much to spend on prerequisites and also synergies [and then ofc there is also stat points]. There are some balance issues where you can indeed destroy everything with just 1 or 2 spells on some characters. Personally i strongly dislike one shot mechanic stuff, i think it's simplistic and boring, i like complex fights where attack is complex and also defense is complex, depth, player style, difficulty, etc.
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D2 skill system is max skill + synergies, there is nothing complex in it. Patch 1.10 destroyed D2 imo.
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And i would say that creativity is greatly impacted if the cost of attempting new stuff is very high.
If you cannot respec in any way, that means that any time you try something new, you have to invest hours upon hours into grinding up a new character, just to most likely notice that the new thing you tried is shit. Few people will do that. Most people will just look up some cookie cutter build that they know works, and play that.
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On October 03 2020 22:26 Simberto wrote:
And i would say that creativity is greatly impacted if the cost of attempting new stuff is very high.
If you cannot respec in any way, that means that any time you try something new, you have to invest hours upon hours into grinding up a new character, just to most likely notice that the new thing you tried is shit. Few people will do that. Most people will just look up some cookie cutter build that they know works, and play that. exactly, D3 did many things wrong but I don't think the skill system was one of them. It let you freely experiment and try things out and that is a good thing.
And unlike the hardcore D2 players, 99.9% of players isn't interested in leveling a dozen sorcerers to try a dozen different skills, they simply quit after the first one doesn't work out.
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On October 03 2020 21:43 heronn wrote:
D2 skill system is max skill + synergies, there is nothing complex in it. Patch 1.10 destroyed D2 imo.
i dont disagree patch 1.10 destroyed a lot, but you can still do the more in depth stuff at least : s and you can still benefit from that in some ways such as being more able to solo any mobs in hell due to having attacks with multiple elements etc but because 8Players is always more efficient since only +50% mob health per player (patch 1.10 too, down from +100%) and more.. patch 1.09 best represents D2 depth it seems eh.
limited respec (implying cost etc) can be pretty good i agree
but i think there are still some pros to not being able to do that. You don't have to end up with a very weak character if the game is well balanced. and if leveling up isn't crazy long it's not so difficult to start up some new chars and build different using all stuff on the way. idk personally i like that, but if most players don't then uh w/e. I mean yeah when you play HC after you die you'll restart anyway so. why need to be able to fully respec at little or no cost if the game is well made fun and challenging from the start and balanced so you can't necessarily end up with a super weak char for example. unless you go crazy all in on some specific thing and it's just not versatile enough or w/e.
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EPT
