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On June 05 2020 05:19 Manit0u wrote:
That's why mechanics were not fine. They were too tied to the gear. Basically, your gear totally dictated your build and I hated that. What was crap in D2 was adding all those items with powerful effects that were previously tied down to certain classes (teleport, auras) which sure enough opened up some new builds but pretty much made all builds not revolving around those items obsolete. Rune words bad for the game.
In D3 I hated the fact that I didn't give 2 hoots about the story and gameplay wise it was all about finding new gear and this sweet spot in one of sixteen difficulty levels where you can one-shot everything so you can speed clear farm more gear. I want a game that'll get me invested in the story, the characters, the world around me. Not just chasing a cool new bauble that'll let me kill faster. I want the battles to take some time instead of you insta-gib them or they insta-gib you, there's no real tension in that.
Agree!!
I think D2 has better mechanics than D3 too overall (walking is a big one. In D2 if you walk you have 100% of your block and defense, if you run you have 33% of your block and 0% of your defense. If you play well you'll want to switch between walking and running during combat and its even a player style thing how you do it). But I think you could do better. I think there is room for real good gameplay with movement controlled by ZQSD tbh. Depth in the end is what matters. Hence why one shot stuff is mostly bad, it's quite binary. Batch of rune words from 1.10 and after break a lot of balance in D2. Anti Cheat is a huge question mark. There is totally room for an amazing new ARPG but I don't think blizzard can make it.
Also I believe it's worth exploring something different about health and healing. If you can easily heal yourself during fight or in between fights, it doesn't matter that much whether you got hit or how many times you got hit during a fight if you don't die. But remove the ability to heal and now you have to manage your health and play to get hit less, defense is more of a factor. Could have some ways to manually block or parry attacks and dodge etc. If you have to go back to town or someplace to heal back up then make it so you lose some opportunity in your quest or mission or loot or w/e, make it matter how much you get hit and how well you do on a longer string of time not just if you die or not in the span of a few seconds imo.
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Meh I keep rewatching the gameplay video hoping I can change my mind. Still looks like a reskin of D3. Too little too late imo.
I’m gonna wait for what D2 remaster will offer. I hope it can be heavily modded.
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On June 06 2020 05:34 Emnjay808 wrote:
Meh I keep rewatching the gameplay video hoping I can change my mind. Still looks like a reskin of D3. Too little too late imo.
I’m gonna wait for what D2 remaster will offer. I hope it can be heavily modded.
You're still hopeful after what happened to WC3 Remaster? Jesus, I wish I'd have 1/8th of your optimism.
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Sure Blizzard messed up a few times over the years and hating on them is really easy after D3, the Diablo Immortal fiasco and especially the WC3R f*** up. But in all honesty, everything I've seen so far of D4 gives me hope and who knows, they might actually pull it of and finally release another great Diablo game after 20 years. Being optimistic has always been the better choice for me, than hating on a game I haven't played yet.
If it sucks, I'll just continue playing PoE, even though I haven't enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed playing D1 & 2 back in the day.
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On June 06 2020 23:13 thePunGun wrote:
Sure Blizzard messed up a few times over the years and hating on them is really easy after D3, the Diablo Immortal fiasco and especially the WC3R f*** up. But in all honesty, everything I've seen so far of D4 gives me hope and who knows, they might actually pull it of and finally release another great Diablo game after 20 years. Being optimistic has always been the better choice for me, than hating on a game I haven't played yet.
If it sucks, I'll just continue playing PoE, even though I haven't enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed playing D1 & 2 back in the day.
Do you think D3 has improved a lot since release? If so, D4 has a good chance of being good since the lessons from D3 release until now should still be with them.
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On June 06 2020 21:44 Latham wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2020 05:34 Emnjay808 wrote:
Meh I keep rewatching the gameplay video hoping I can change my mind. Still looks like a reskin of D3. Too little too late imo.
I’m gonna wait for what D2 remaster will offer. I hope it can be heavily modded. You're still hopeful after what happened to WC3 Remaster? Jesus, I wish I'd have 1/8th of your optimism. Why does WC3 matter when D4 will have an (entirely) different team working on it?
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On June 07 2020 06:07 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2020 23:13 thePunGun wrote:
Sure Blizzard messed up a few times over the years and hating on them is really easy after D3, the Diablo Immortal fiasco and especially the WC3R f*** up. But in all honesty, everything I've seen so far of D4 gives me hope and who knows, they might actually pull it of and finally release another great Diablo game after 20 years. Being optimistic has always been the better choice for me, than hating on a game I haven't played yet.
If it sucks, I'll just continue playing PoE, even though I haven't enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed playing D1 & 2 back in the day. Do you think D3 has improved a lot since release? If so, D4 has a good chance of being good since the lessons from D3 release until now should still be with them.
D3 did improve some (especially when they released the expansion) but it was too little too late and nothing could really save it because where D3 is flawed is at its core (both in term of mechanics and story) so no matter how much you fix around it it'll remain a broken game and so late in the game's lifespan it's not possible to fix its core.
Also, does anyone remember the real money AH? Yeah...
And Blizzard now has some pretty heavy ties with Chinese market, which does not bode well for Diablo (with heavy censorship, ban on skeletons etc.)
Right now all is left for me in the ARPG market is to wait for someone to do something like Grim Dawn but in a different setting (not really into this victorian era stuff and it was the only thing that threw me off in GD).
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I like modern d3 quite a lot its just stale after legit 20 seasons. I will pay money and play the shit out of a d4 thats very similar to d3 but a new game.
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On June 07 2020 06:07 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2020 23:13 thePunGun wrote:
Sure Blizzard messed up a few times over the years and hating on them is really easy after D3, the Diablo Immortal fiasco and especially the WC3R f*** up. But in all honesty, everything I've seen so far of D4 gives me hope and who knows, they might actually pull it of and finally release another great Diablo game after 20 years. Being optimistic has always been the better choice for me, than hating on a game I haven't played yet.
If it sucks, I'll just continue playing PoE, even though I haven't enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed playing D1 & 2 back in the day. Do you think D3 has improved a lot since release? If so, D4 has a good chance of being good since the lessons from D3 release until now should still be with them.
It definitely improved over the years and I did enjoy doing seasonal runs until I eventually got bored. But D2 felt a lot more challenging and items didn't feel as insignificant.
The amount of worthless legendaries and legendary gems is just way too high in D3.
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Said it before but something I really like and that's important to me is to get to play more complex characters (as well as highly customizable), so characters that may use many skills, over 12 skills, or over 20 or even more. It really is playable, in wow characters have close to 50 skills.. when well balanced it's just awesome. (You can just switch your keybind "pages" using 1 2 3 4 5 and use keys around WASD for skills and actions for example). With open playstyle, not a pre written playstyle. This and complex mechanics and stat system etc. Quality > quantity but to bring more depth and quality, quantity can matter : P
It's something D2 has to a good extent, but it's tricky to find the builds that work well with up to 16 (active) skills, there are though. You have up to 16 hotkeys for actions, 1 of them would be town portal and maybe 1 or 2 skills coming from items, there is room for making effective skill builds that use the remaining 13 or 14 keys like Sorc based on chain lightning + meteor + thunderstorm + hydra (using telekinesis energy shield frozen armor static field teleport enchant etc) or amazon using a combination of spear + bow with lightning strike + fend + strafe + some enchanted arrow and passive skills including inner sight etc. Done similar with druid or necro I think all characters in D2 can actually build with a lot of skills effectively just gotta find the balance and pick your items ofc. Because of 1.10 synergies and runewords its kinda easy to build with only a few skills and be effective since 1.10 though.
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On June 07 2020 06:09 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2020 21:44 Latham wrote:On June 06 2020 05:34 Emnjay808 wrote:
Meh I keep rewatching the gameplay video hoping I can change my mind. Still looks like a reskin of D3. Too little too late imo.
I’m gonna wait for what D2 remaster will offer. I hope it can be heavily modded. You're still hopeful after what happened to WC3 Remaster? Jesus, I wish I'd have 1/8th of your optimism. Why does WC3 matter when D4 will have an (entirely) different team working on it?
Still the same executives who shoed a very unfinished game out the door to make some quick buck
It could be interesting to go down a route where not only clearspeed matters.
Imagine instead of 100 mobs on screen which all are pretty much oneshot but instead only very few with meaningful attacks, buff, debuffs, ... where every fight is a "small boss" fight. Like an isometric dark soul meets D2 kinda game. It be totally down for that
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On June 08 2020 06:32 ProMeTheus112 wrote:
Said it before but something I really like and that's important to me is to get to play more complex characters (as well as highly customizable), so characters that may use many skills, over 12 skills, or over 20 or even more. It really is playable, in wow characters have close to 50 skills.. when well balanced it's just awesome. (You can just switch your keybind "pages" using 1 2 3 4 5 and use keys around WASD for skills and actions for example). With open playstyle, not a pre written playstyle. This and complex mechanics and stat system etc. Quality > quantity but to bring more depth and quality, quantity can matter : P
It's something D2 has to a good extent, but it's tricky to find the builds that work well with up to 16 (active) skills, there are though. You have up to 16 hotkeys for actions, 1 of them would be town portal and maybe 1 or 2 skills coming from items, there is room for making effective skill builds that use the remaining 13 or 14 keys like Sorc based on chain lightning + meteor + thunderstorm + hydra (using telekinesis energy shield frozen armor static field teleport enchant etc) or amazon using a combination of spear + bow with lightning strike + fend + strafe + some enchanted arrow and passive skills including inner sight etc. Done similar with druid or necro I think all characters in D2 can actually build with a lot of skills effectively just gotta find the balance and pick your items ofc. Because of 1.10 synergies and runewords its kinda easy to build with only a few skills and be effective since 1.10 though.
I don't think having 50 skills on your skill bar is beneficial in any way. Even if you have so many there's still usually just a handful that you'll be cycling through to have the most impact. I really like the GW approach here, where you have a gazillion skills that you can also mix and match by having 2 classes effectively (similar to Grim Dawn) and of those skills you can pick only 8 (1 of them elite) but you can switch your skills and attributes whenever you're in town (can't do it outside of town when doing missions). Come to think of it, GW is pretty much an ARGPG at this point since you can solo all of the game content and areas are instanced to your team so it's not open world (only town hubs are open and serve as a sort of a lobby).
On June 08 2020 15:53 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2020 06:09 Gorsameth wrote:On June 06 2020 21:44 Latham wrote:On June 06 2020 05:34 Emnjay808 wrote:
Meh I keep rewatching the gameplay video hoping I can change my mind. Still looks like a reskin of D3. Too little too late imo.
I’m gonna wait for what D2 remaster will offer. I hope it can be heavily modded. You're still hopeful after what happened to WC3 Remaster? Jesus, I wish I'd have 1/8th of your optimism. Why does WC3 matter when D4 will have an (entirely) different team working on it? Still the same executives who shoed a very unfinished game out the door to make some quick buck It could be interesting to go down a route where not only clearspeed matters. Imagine instead of 100 mobs on screen which all are pretty much oneshot but instead only very few with meaningful attacks, buff, debuffs, ... where every fight is a "small boss" fight. Like an isometric dark soul meets D2 kinda game. It be totally down for that
Yeah, that's also what I want. This tension when you start running out of mana or some other vital resource, your health is plummeting and your opponent is on the verge of death but you're uncertain if you can take it down, you have to position yourself, do some kiting, side-stepping etc. and when you finally come out on top it feels like an actual accomplishment.
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Wasn't the guy I quoted talking about a D2 remaster? I'm 100% sure they'll find a way to fuck that up...
as for D4? I dunno, it's still very much up in the air... I have no opinion on that topic.
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I think we shouldn't underestimate the age impact. No matter what they do, I'm not going to be super excited about D4, even if has the best system ever. The excitement isn't there like I was younger. I'm never going to feel the same as I did when I found my first Stormshield in solo D2. Nowadays, we look up the dropping odds for the item, feel bored during putting in the hours and blame the RPG gods when it doesn't drop.
And the story was never that interesting. The atmosphere was.
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On June 09 2020 04:09 aseq wrote:
I think we shouldn't underestimate the age impact. No matter what they do, I'm not going to be super excited about D4, even if has the best system ever. The excitement isn't there like I was younger. I'm never going to feel the same as I did when I found my first Stormshield in solo D2. Nowadays, we look up the dropping odds for the item, feel bored during putting in the hours and blame the RPG gods when it doesn't drop.
And the story was never that interesting. The atmosphere was.
that's just you. i'm still as exited or even more so then when i was younger.
depends on what you value in life.
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On June 08 2020 21:03 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2020 06:32 ProMeTheus112 wrote:
Said it before but something I really like and that's important to me is to get to play more complex characters (as well as highly customizable), so characters that may use many skills, over 12 skills, or over 20 or even more. It really is playable, in wow characters have close to 50 skills.. when well balanced it's just awesome. (You can just switch your keybind "pages" using 1 2 3 4 5 and use keys around WASD for skills and actions for example). With open playstyle, not a pre written playstyle. This and complex mechanics and stat system etc. Quality > quantity but to bring more depth and quality, quantity can matter : P
It's something D2 has to a good extent, but it's tricky to find the builds that work well with up to 16 (active) skills, there are though. You have up to 16 hotkeys for actions, 1 of them would be town portal and maybe 1 or 2 skills coming from items, there is room for making effective skill builds that use the remaining 13 or 14 keys like Sorc based on chain lightning + meteor + thunderstorm + hydra (using telekinesis energy shield frozen armor static field teleport enchant etc) or amazon using a combination of spear + bow with lightning strike + fend + strafe + some enchanted arrow and passive skills including inner sight etc. Done similar with druid or necro I think all characters in D2 can actually build with a lot of skills effectively just gotta find the balance and pick your items ofc. Because of 1.10 synergies and runewords its kinda easy to build with only a few skills and be effective since 1.10 though. I don't think having 50 skills on your skill bar is beneficial in any way. Even if you have so many there's still usually just a handful that you'll be cycling through to have the most impact. I really like the GW approach here, where you have a gazillion skills that you can also mix and match by having 2 classes effectively (similar to Grim Dawn) and of those skills you can pick only 8 (1 of them elite) but you can switch your skills and attributes whenever you're in town (can't do it outside of town when doing missions). Come to think of it, GW is pretty much an ARGPG at this point since you can solo all of the game content and areas are instanced to your team so it's not open world (only town hubs are open and serve as a sort of a lobby). Show nested quote +On June 08 2020 15:53 Harris1st wrote:On June 07 2020 06:09 Gorsameth wrote:On June 06 2020 21:44 Latham wrote:On June 06 2020 05:34 Emnjay808 wrote:
Meh I keep rewatching the gameplay video hoping I can change my mind. Still looks like a reskin of D3. Too little too late imo.
I’m gonna wait for what D2 remaster will offer. I hope it can be heavily modded. You're still hopeful after what happened to WC3 Remaster? Jesus, I wish I'd have 1/8th of your optimism. Why does WC3 matter when D4 will have an (entirely) different team working on it? Still the same executives who shoed a very unfinished game out the door to make some quick buck It could be interesting to go down a route where not only clearspeed matters. Imagine instead of 100 mobs on screen which all are pretty much oneshot but instead only very few with meaningful attacks, buff, debuffs, ... where every fight is a "small boss" fight. Like an isometric dark soul meets D2 kinda game. It be totally down for that Yeah, that's also what I want. This tension when you start running out of mana or some other vital resource, your health is plummeting and your opponent is on the verge of death but you're uncertain if you can take it down, you have to position yourself, do some kiting, side-stepping etc. and when you finally come out on top it feels like an actual accomplishment.
I think for sure that more skills isn't necessarily better, but in wow played a lot of druid wpvp and you can actually make use of almost all of your skills effectively there (even on a single fight). Wow does have something with cooldowns and some design where your playstyle may be sorta defined by for example very strong skills on a cooldown that you just have to use, crowd controls or the ability to heal a lot etc. Anyway for a ARPG I don't think 50 skills is necessary but I definitely want to be able to use for example 12 or more, and be rewarded for that. Also like to play with quite a bunch of stats and skills values etc.
Also the point about clearspeed I really agree, if only the speed of killing matters there is a depth problem and a difficulty problem. If you just slow down a bit it's easy, if you want to do a playstyle that doesn't kill the fastest it's suboptimal etc. That's part of why I'd suggest looking at ways to reward or punish for things like getting hit less over a longer period of time. In my opinion one of D2's biggest flaw is the mega incentive to RUSH like crazy. That's amplified by the ability to get XP from mobs killed by higher leveled characters, but also because the rewards for rushing are big and there isn't much of a penalty to doing some stuff better or worse if you just don't die. I played a lot of D2 completely avoiding to rush and instead building up by doing extra areas and I've had a lot lot more fun playing that way (actually is one way to make the high skill count builds work, by getting more gear at each level so you can avoid maxing some skill early and instead start branching out etc).
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Looks like a reskin of D3. Blizzard USA openly fascist to the enemies of the CCP.
D3 was a disaster, WC3R a train wreck. Killed both Brood War and WC3 classics deliberately, just to bully us to buy their shit. Outsources to cheap dev teams in Asia.
Fires 800 ppl after a record year, pays low wages, caters to genocidal communists and rushes to defend their honor. Kotick enriches himself disproportionally. Announces d3 immortal unironically. Announces shifting all major devs to mobile projects. Kotick is an Epstein pedo buddy.
Doesn't care about games at all, just wants to milk IP and mice on. Exists solely for profits and share holders / company value.
Why would anyone like or trust anything from them now? Why?
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After 10k hours on PoE I have gotten a bit into D3 lately. Blizzard's D4 trailer was - like usually, incredible. I like that they have returned to origin with a gritty look, but other than that, I expect another dumbed down experience like D3, but maybe it isn't so bad. Maybe this is Blizzard's greatest strength of making something very accessible. That said, I really hope they move away from set items. Hope they expand on the cube thing, as that adds some flexibility to your build, which is desperately needed in the Diablo franchise.
Probably 3-4 years away, so a lot can happen.
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On June 09 2020 14:34 frontliner2 wrote:
Looks like a reskin of D3. Blizzard USA openly fascist to the enemies of the CCP.
D3 was a disaster, WC3R a train wreck. Killed both Brood War and WC3 classics deliberately, just to bully us to buy their shit. Outsources to cheap dev teams in Asia.
Fires 800 ppl after a record year, pays low wages, caters to genocidal communists and rushes to defend their honor. Kotick enriches himself disproportionally. Announces d3 immortal unironically. Announces shifting all major devs to mobile projects. Kotick is an Epstein pedo buddy.
Doesn't care about games at all, just wants to milk IP and mice on. Exists solely for profits and share holders / company value.
Why would anyone like or trust anything from them now? Why? I feel they have done well with Overwatch. I really fancy that game. HS is a bit of a cash grab, but I haven't found a card game that suits my needs as well as it does.
I am not saying it is okay, but the whole world outsources to Asia, because the labour is like a bowl of rice. I wish it was just USA, but it isn't. Quality is really hard to come by and truth be told, I only trust Scandinavian quality, but it is also vastly decreasing with the notion of "optimising profits", and the population are manipulated into buy-and-toss-away, so not build to last, works well. And in this information age, nobody really knows anything and craftmanship and the pride with it are a dated notions.
Capitalism does what it can get away with. It is the consumers that vote with their wallets, and if they are voting for the lowest common denominator, that is what they will get.
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On June 09 2020 20:03 Dracolich70 wrote:
... I like that they have returned to origin with a gritty look, but other than that, I expect another dumbed down experience like D3, but maybe it isn't so bad. Maybe this is Blizzard's greatest strength of making something very accessible....
That is, in essence, what Blizzard always was. Combined with the "easy to learn, hard to master" credo all gamers love is what made Blizzard big.
Besides the obvious flaws and bugs, Blizzard games are still very accessible, but they are now "easy to learn, something boring to something profit"
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EPT
