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On November 09 2019 11:22 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2019 08:52 Stratos_speAr wrote:On November 09 2019 07:26 Sermokala wrote:On November 09 2019 06:55 Cyro wrote:On November 09 2019 04:54 iXphobos wrote:On November 09 2019 03:45 Cyro wrote:Buy to play + Expansions + Microtransactions  Why the sadface? Anything else would have been a complete suprise. Usually games are either buy to play or they're free to play that is funded by microtransactions. Not both! Looks at world of warcraft. Looks at overwatch. This isn't exactly inconsistent for blizzard let alone Activision. And SC2. Actually most AAA games do this now. I gave SC2 as an example earlier, it's free to play. You have to buy several of the campaigns, a lot of co-op commanders, skins etc - but you don't have to buy the box or even other expansion features.
On November 10 2019 00:49 thePunGun wrote:
I've never played a game, that had mandatory expansions, so idk which game(s) you're refering to.
But as long as the expansions improve the game and actually manage to make the game exciting again with fresh new content (which Blizzard's expansion usually do), I'm all for it.
I know there are shitty expansions and dlcs out there, which are nothing more than a cash grab, but that's what refunds are for. (edit: been awake for 36 hours, sorry for any nonsensical rambling sentences)
SC2 might now be free 2 play but on release you had to buy retail (WoL) and then evey expansion (HotS and LotV) and nowadays you can buy extra campaigns (Nova), Skins (Warchest) and Coop Commanders if you want. But the expansions were all mandatory!
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On November 11 2019 20:02 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2019 11:22 Cyro wrote:On November 09 2019 08:52 Stratos_speAr wrote:On November 09 2019 07:26 Sermokala wrote:On November 09 2019 06:55 Cyro wrote:On November 09 2019 04:54 iXphobos wrote:On November 09 2019 03:45 Cyro wrote:Buy to play + Expansions + Microtransactions Why the sadface? Anything else would have been a complete suprise. Usually games are either buy to play or they're free to play that is funded by microtransactions. Not both! Looks at world of warcraft. Looks at overwatch. This isn't exactly inconsistent for blizzard let alone Activision. And SC2. Actually most AAA games do this now. I gave SC2 as an example earlier, it's free to play. You have to buy several of the campaigns, a lot of co-op commanders, skins etc - but you don't have to buy the box or even other expansion features. Show nested quote +On November 10 2019 00:49 thePunGun wrote:
I've never played a game, that had mandatory expansions, so idk which game(s) you're refering to.
But as long as the expansions improve the game and actually manage to make the game exciting again with fresh new content (which Blizzard's expansion usually do), I'm all for it.
I know there are shitty expansions and dlcs out there, which are nothing more than a cash grab, but that's what refunds are for. (edit: been awake for 36 hours, sorry for any nonsensical rambling sentences) SC2 might now be free 2 play but on release you had to buy retail (WoL) and then evey expansion (HotS and LotV) and nowadays you can buy extra campaigns (Nova), Skins (Warchest) and Coop Commanders if you want. But the expansions were all mandatory! Under what definition of the word were the SC2 expansions mandatory?
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On November 11 2019 20:15 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2019 20:02 Harris1st wrote:On November 09 2019 11:22 Cyro wrote:On November 09 2019 08:52 Stratos_speAr wrote:On November 09 2019 07:26 Sermokala wrote:On November 09 2019 06:55 Cyro wrote:On November 09 2019 04:54 iXphobos wrote:On November 09 2019 03:45 Cyro wrote:Buy to play + Expansions + Microtransactions Why the sadface? Anything else would have been a complete suprise. Usually games are either buy to play or they're free to play that is funded by microtransactions. Not both! Looks at world of warcraft. Looks at overwatch. This isn't exactly inconsistent for blizzard let alone Activision. And SC2. Actually most AAA games do this now. I gave SC2 as an example earlier, it's free to play. You have to buy several of the campaigns, a lot of co-op commanders, skins etc - but you don't have to buy the box or even other expansion features. On November 10 2019 00:49 thePunGun wrote:
I've never played a game, that had mandatory expansions, so idk which game(s) you're refering to.
But as long as the expansions improve the game and actually manage to make the game exciting again with fresh new content (which Blizzard's expansion usually do), I'm all for it.
I know there are shitty expansions and dlcs out there, which are nothing more than a cash grab, but that's what refunds are for. (edit: been awake for 36 hours, sorry for any nonsensical rambling sentences) SC2 might now be free 2 play but on release you had to buy retail (WoL) and then evey expansion (HotS and LotV) and nowadays you can buy extra campaigns (Nova), Skins (Warchest) and Coop Commanders if you want. But the expansions were all mandatory! Under what definition of the word were the SC2 expansions mandatory?
Ladder (there were like a few hundred people left playing WoL after release of HotS), balance updates, patches, whole competitive scene moved on,...
Yes, technically you could still play vanilla. But, let's be honest here, who did?
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Let's be honest here guys. D4 right now seems to be pretty dark and gory, which is a step in the right direction. A lot (and I mean A LOT) will hinge on the writing and quests. Loot and character progression will be super important too. I really do hope they go back to different resistances and damage types (not giving every class access to everything like in D3, this killed all class uniqueness) and make investing in skills and passives more impactful (not the "you get everything anyway and just tinker around with it until you find the most optimal setup for now"), where you can't get everything and respecs are limited (like in D2, where you got 1 respec per finished difficulty).
I'm still highly opposed to the open world idea though. In D1 and D2 (won't be talking about D3 because it was shit in practically every possible aspect) you really got this feeling of being alone in a hostile world, which made you feel vulnerable and created the atmosphere of dread. They seem to have the right graphics and setting for it, they just need to tone down the pacing a lot and rethink this open world stuff with other players showing up as this will make the world feel much less scary if you have random people just running about (and they will most likely add some obnoxious emotes for people to spam and ruin your immersion even more).
Can we get rid of this "always online, game as a service" crap for once and get a good game instead? Multiplayer is fine if you have lobbies and stuff so you can play with your friends (or completely alone if you so wish) and not have some random dweebs being forced upon you.
I've been mulling over it for a bit and I'm seriously worried about it and the direction they're taking. Despite all the dark graphics and setting it still feels too much like D3 and of all Diablo installments D3 is so far the only one which I gave up on after just a single playthrough. I mean, what's the point of creating new characters or participating in new seasons in D3? I got to GR70 or so and lost all will to continue and if I start thinking about doing the same thing on another character I just want to kill myself. There's no real sense of accomplishment, your character is just a god (quite literally) that plows through everything from the get go, story and characters are completely forgettable, campaign is boring enough for you to have to force yourself to do it even once... I could go on, but it's just depressing (and I haven't even touched the itemization topic)...
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I still think lots of people will be disappointed by d4 even if blizzard do everything well. It’s not going to have the same impact as d1 of d2 when you were 14. You’re not going to be scared by the Butcher or those succubi. You’re going online, find out what build is best, maybe calculate some skills and what items you need, and go though the motions to get them. Doesn’t matter much if it’s a GR, an elite boss, nightmare difficulty, whatever. You’ll probably play the story first, some people level faster than others, but after a couple months you’ll get the feeling it’s a grind. And it feels like that because you’re 30+, not because the game is terrible.
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On November 15 2019 08:17 Manit0u wrote:
I'm still highly opposed to the open world idea though. In D1 and D2 (won't be talking about D3 because it was shit in practically every possible aspect) you really got this feeling of being alone in a hostile world, which made you feel vulnerable and created the atmosphere of dread. They seem to have the right graphics and setting for it, they just need to tone down the pacing a lot and rethink this open world stuff with other players showing up as this will make the world feel much less scary if you have random people just running about (and they will most likely add some obnoxious emotes for people to spam and ruin your immersion even more).
It is not as open world as one might think, you have to play each particular part of the story first (solo or with friends) before certain areas of the campaign become open world.
But I actually quite like the idea of an explorable Sanctuary as an entire world without loading screens. And according to the devs you don't have to take part in any of the open world stuff if you don't want to, I just hope they put out enough content for everybody.
Can we get rid of this "always online, game as a service" crap for once and get a good game instead? Multiplayer is fine if you have lobbies and stuff so you can play with your friends (or completely alone if you so wish) and not have some random dweebs being forced upon you.
Sadly the times of offline games are over, even some indie games these days are exclusively online and it's only gonna get worse.
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Northern Ireland26192 Posts
On November 15 2019 11:57 aseq wrote:
I still think lots of people will be disappointed by d4 even if blizzard do everything well. It’s not going to have the same impact as d1 of d2 when you were 14. You’re not going to be scared by the Butcher or those succubi. You’re going online, find out what build is best, maybe calculate some skills and what items you need, and go though the motions to get them. Doesn’t matter much if it’s a GR, an elite boss, nightmare difficulty, whatever. You’ll probably play the story first, some people level faster than others, but after a couple months you’ll get the feeling it’s a grind. And it feels like that because you’re 30+, not because the game is terrible.
Agreed, not just with this game but with many. It’s hard to recapture that old magic, I’ve had it happen the odd time in recent years but not too frequently and it’s almost always with games in genres I hadn’t really played as a youngster.
While they’re not always wrong by any means, I do tend to take what long term hardcore fans of anything say on any sequels/reboots with a pinch of salt because of this.
You’re never going to recapture the feeling of the first time you got illicitly drunk with your buddies 15 years later having a few beers in a bar. Novel experiences aren’t something you can replicate by their inherent nature.
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On November 15 2019 20:58 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2019 11:57 aseq wrote:
I still think lots of people will be disappointed by d4 even if blizzard do everything well. It’s not going to have the same impact as d1 of d2 when you were 14. You’re not going to be scared by the Butcher or those succubi. You’re going online, find out what build is best, maybe calculate some skills and what items you need, and go though the motions to get them. Doesn’t matter much if it’s a GR, an elite boss, nightmare difficulty, whatever. You’ll probably play the story first, some people level faster than others, but after a couple months you’ll get the feeling it’s a grind. And it feels like that because you’re 30+, not because the game is terrible. Agreed, not just with this game but with many. It’s hard to recapture that old magic, I’ve had it happen the odd time in recent years but not too frequently and it’s almost always with games in genres I hadn’t really played as a youngster. While they’re not always wrong by any means, I do tend to take what long term hardcore fans of anything say on any sequels/reboots with a pinch of salt because of this. You’re never going to recapture the feeling of the first time you got illicitly drunk with your buddies 15 years later having a few beers in a bar. Novel experiences aren’t something you can replicate by their inherent nature.
i mostly agree with you guys and i definitely agree regarding gaming. the only experience that can still do it for me is listening to music. can still find new songs that will blow my mind and put me in the same excited state i was in when i was 12 and first discovered rap. but now that i think about it, most of the time it's new music by artists i had been following for at least a decade that'll do it for me. people like Jay-Z, Eminem, Royce Da 5'9, Lupe Fiasco... Kendrick Lamar comes close though.
sorry for the off-topic, it's just that... games haven't given me that feel i had when i first played D2, War3, GTA3... but those exact games will still do it for me to a degree. i just started playing some D2 singleplayer again recently and it takes me way back every time. gives me feels like no other game since has. and i really don't believe nobody has come up with a game even remotely comparable to D2 since the year 2000.
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On November 15 2019 11:57 aseq wrote:
I still think lots of people will be disappointed by d4 even if blizzard do everything well. It’s not going to have the same impact as d1 of d2 when you were 14. You’re not going to be scared by the Butcher or those succubi. You’re going online, find out what build is best, maybe calculate some skills and what items you need, and go though the motions to get them. Doesn’t matter much if it’s a GR, an elite boss, nightmare difficulty, whatever. You’ll probably play the story first, some people level faster than others, but after a couple months you’ll get the feeling it’s a grind. And it feels like that because you’re 30+, not because the game is terrible.
I don't mind the grind at all if the gameplay and atmosphere are good. I've been grinding in D1/D2/GD for years and didn't get fed up with them (unlike D3). Sure, nothing is going to recapture the first encounter with the Butcher, but that's not what I'm looking for. All I want from D4 is to recapture the atmosphere of dread and uneasiness, I actually want my character to be weak and scared of things, not an almighty being not giving a shit because nothing can harm it (like in D3). That's why I mentioned slower progression, so that leveling up actually feels impactful.
Take Grim Dawn as a recent example (sorry, but I can't praise this game enough). You level up relatively fast there, but you don't get godlike powers each time you do. If you set it to veteran mode (option for experienced gamers) the game is actually challenging from the get go and doesn't get that much easier. Even minibosses on the map (think Rakanishu) require kiting, using multiple abilities and you often run out of healing on them. Might seem like a chore but when you finally defeat such a boss you feel awesome (for example normal creeps have 100-300hp in the beginning while bosses can have 11k hp and hit like a truck). I pretty much hated D3 for the fact that you just run blindly forward, spamming your uber skills and everything evaporates, that's boring and you get no sense of accomplishment.
On November 15 2019 21:04 Schelim wrote:
i just started playing some D2 singleplayer again recently and it takes me way back every time. gives me feels like no other game since has. and i really don't believe nobody has come up with a game even remotely comparable to D2 since the year 2000.
I'm still replaying D1 and D2 on occasion, never gets old. Another title that I keep coming back in the genre is Grim Dawn. GD has by far the best character leveling system out of all those games (think Titan Quest on steroids), not only you get to pick a combination of 2 classes, you also get to distribute your devotion (extra points that give you various passive and active abilities) as you see fit. The number of combinations is astounding with 36 different combinations and several different viable builds for each combination. It's also properly dark, the campaign is pretty long with a lot of content. I think the biggest downsides of it are the setting (post-apocalyptic victorian era is not for everyone, I think they'd garner more following if it was regular fantasy or sci-fi) and the fact that the maps aren't random (this is less of an issue, considering that maps are huge and with quite a bit of verticality).
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I think I've enjoyed D2 recently even more than when I was a kid. I'll probably only play even more of it on a server that doesn't do botting at all however.
Regarding no offline, I'm worried about LAN, LAN without owning multiple copies of a game, and what happens when the launchers stop working. Also I dislike the performance cost of mandatory launchers. I simply disagree with the idea of "game as service" (but online services for games are great eh^^) and will absolutely not refrain from downloading games I've bought from wherever else of course. Or maybe games I haven't bought if I want to.
Regarding open world D4, I wonder how that's going to work with difficulty, and if there would be PvP => world pvp @_@! I love wpvp. But what about the pvm difficulty? It's one of D2's biggest issues imo that after 1.10, monsters only get +50% health bonus per player in the game (and some % extra damage (one shots are another issue of D2, if they increased damage of monsters by more than these few % it would lead to too many one shots probably, but instead with less one shots and less easy to teleport and get away you could probably increase monster damage more per player)). Before 1.10 it was +100%. Even with just this 100% bonus, it doesn't outdo the extra advantage players have for being more numerous fighting monsters in the game (because of shared bonuses like freezing monsters, battle orders auras etc, plus in essence getting +100% health and +100% damage too by getting an extra character), and it leads to decreased difficulty and extra incentive to rush (along with extra loot and extra XP with more players). After 1.10, it goes to trivial difficulty if you have close to 8 players and mega rush being the most efficient [it is also worsened by the fact that if a higher level character kills monsters close to your level you also get xp for doing nothing or as little as you want, should really scale xp gained on damage done or similar]. You can just dodge these games, but then you have issues with competing server wide etc. And ofc the reward incentive is way high so many players will just default to this playstyle.
(There are also issues with 1.10 runewords being too cheap and too strong leading to cookie cutter rush stuff, little difficulty and less meaningful choice, also arguably made generally worse by 1.10 skill synergies (+ easy first few stat/skill resets). The best 1.10 endgame items are also too strong, including the best 1.10 runewords, etc. Makes playing your endgame char too easy.. while I'd want to be playing the hardest part. There is a lot of great difficulty and choice to be had in D2 if you dodge 1.10 runewords, play more solo or less amount of players, before you reach endgame.)
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System Design in Diablo IV
https://us.diablo3.com/en/blog/23232022
There’s a misconception that Diablo IV will lock skills to specific slots because of the BlizzCon demo user interface. Like many other things in the demo, the UI is not final and we will support Elective Mode-style skill selection. Skill selection and assignment will always be completely open for all players.
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We haven’t decided whether the character leveling and experience system should be finite or infinite. We’ve been discussing the pros and cons of both and would love to hear your thoughts. There seems to be some concern around infinite being worse because it will eventually overshadow all the power granted by other sources. However, we can control how much power each system gives, whether it’s infinite or finite.
For example, say we’re talking about thousands of hours of gameplay . . . within those thousands of hours, we could choose to create a finite system that grants 1,000,000 times more power than an infinite system, making it practically impossible for the infinite system to catch up in power.
Also, power increase doesn’t need to be linear throughout the ranks—it can slow down as players reach higher levels. We believe the more important question is what experience feels best for players, and we can playtest various approaches to tuning to find the power curve that makes the most sense.
We have a couple reasons for having a different experience system in addition to a level cap. A level cap gives us the ability to grant players a sense of completion. But for players who want to go deeper into the game, a second experience system allows us to capture the fun of achieving those really difficult endgame goals and ranks. We can also introduce additional depth through this system, because players will be more experienced with the game at this point. Ultimately, our goal is to create a meaningful system that provides clear choices depending on your preferred playstyle in the endgame.
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A big question that’s come up is exactly how Keyed Dungeons are different from Rifts. Keyed Dungeons introduce greater challenges as their tiers increase through Dungeon Affixes. The majority of dungeons are real places in the world, and players will know some information about them including what types of monsters, events, and layouts to expect. With this information, as well as the specific Dungeon Affixes being displayed on the key, players will be able to strategize their approach before going into the dungeon. We believe this is the biggest change from Diablo III Rifts: the added planning and strategizing that takes place before you decide to run a Keyed Dungeon.
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I feel as though this game is going to be dead on arrival after what PoE devs just dropped. Maybe even cancelled project.
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Wonder why they're still tossing around the idea of infinite progression of anything character/power related. Wasn't paragon levels considered pretty shite for several reasons? Are there any other ARPGs that actually do this right?
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On November 20 2019 12:26 cha0 wrote:
I feel as though this game is going to be dead on arrival after what PoE devs just dropped. Maybe even cancelled project.
Hahaha ... no.
It's Diablo after all. That alone is enough to make more money in the first month than PoE2 in its entire lifespan.
And we still have just seen a very vague concept of what DIablo IV might look like. If you watch the Blizzcon in 4 or so years when it is relased you might be like "holy shit that was a completely different game when they announced it".
D3 was very different from its release version when they first showed it and they basically announced it when it was close to release (in Blizzard terms).
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On November 20 2019 12:26 cha0 wrote:
I feel as though this game is going to be dead on arrival after what PoE devs just dropped. Maybe even cancelled project. Competition is rarely a bad thing. Hopefully PoE2 and D4 competing will make both games better.
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Northern Ireland26192 Posts
On November 20 2019 19:04 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2019 12:26 cha0 wrote:
I feel as though this game is going to be dead on arrival after what PoE devs just dropped. Maybe even cancelled project. Competition is rarely a bad thing. Hopefully PoE2 and D4 competing will make both games better.
What is PoE2? Only acronym that springs to mind is Pillars of Eternity, of which the first is one of my favourite games, haven’t played the second yet though. I’m assuming people are talking about another game series? Just don’t see those two competitions with each other
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On November 20 2019 22:16 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2019 19:04 Gorsameth wrote:On November 20 2019 12:26 cha0 wrote:
I feel as though this game is going to be dead on arrival after what PoE devs just dropped. Maybe even cancelled project. Competition is rarely a bad thing. Hopefully PoE2 and D4 competing will make both games better. What is PoE2? Only acronym that springs to mind is Pillars of Eternity, of which the first is one of my favourite games, haven’t played the second yet though. I’m assuming people are talking about another game series? Just don’t see those two competitions with each other
Path of Exile 2, I presume. I only played PoE1 for a while, but it got great reviews from the hack 'n slash veterans.
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On November 20 2019 22:16 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2019 19:04 Gorsameth wrote:On November 20 2019 12:26 cha0 wrote:
I feel as though this game is going to be dead on arrival after what PoE devs just dropped. Maybe even cancelled project. Competition is rarely a bad thing. Hopefully PoE2 and D4 competing will make both games better. What is PoE2? Only acronym that springs to mind is Pillars of Eternity, of which the first is one of my favourite games, haven’t played the second yet though. I’m assuming people are talking about another game series? Just don’t see those two competitions with each other Path of Exile 2 (or patch 4.0, the devs themselves have refered to it as PoE 2).
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On November 20 2019 22:16 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2019 19:04 Gorsameth wrote:On November 20 2019 12:26 cha0 wrote:
I feel as though this game is going to be dead on arrival after what PoE devs just dropped. Maybe even cancelled project. Competition is rarely a bad thing. Hopefully PoE2 and D4 competing will make both games better. What is PoE2? Only acronym that springs to mind is Pillars of Eternity, of which the first is one of my favourite games, haven’t played the second yet though. I’m assuming people are talking about another game series? Just don’t see those two competitions with each other
Path of Exile 4.0
A new campaign with 7 new Acts.
revamped gem/skill/gear-system that still shares important similarities to the old one.
Tons of new (ascendancy)-classes.
Updated Engine/Graphics.
So yeah, basically what you expect from a true successor to a game. Calling it PoE 2 seems totally ok. Else Baldurs Gate 2 also wouldn't be worthy of being called a succsessor to bg1.
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EPT
