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No, it's a map specific problem. Lowmanning w/ juggernaut units are a specific problem of maps that are overly-heavily focused on enemy phase and don't have enough things going on in different places to encourage your units to spread out and do different things. When you have time sensitive objectives that require mixed contribution from different units on player phase, it's hard to bank on a single guard stance juggernaut to do everything.
Like turtling, lowmanning is a natural dominant strategy in Fire Emblem due to the nature of unit scaling. It's on the designer to combat this by designing maps in a way that encourages using your entire deployment, just like it's on the designer to combat turtling by designing maps that require proactive play rather than turtling.
On May 10 2016 05:14 Cricketer12 wrote:
You wanna add conq 18 and birth 10 to that list?
You mean 19, not 18 right? 19 is the Fox hell map. It's a garbage map but still marginally better than the unholy trinity, since beneath the shitty gimmick, you're still playing a Fire Emblem map.
BR10 isn't even BR's worst map. That honor probably goes to one of the three stupid Faceless maps (Leo's map, Fort Dragonfall, or the stupid lava map). I'd probably give it to Leo's map just because of the sheer laziness of it. And yeah, it's probably also a bottom-5 map in Fates.
TBH BR10 is actually pretty far from being a bottom-5 map. It's a really boring and grindy map, especially on Lunatic, but at least it has some semblance of enemy composition and useful terrain. When we start including child maps like Kana's (flat open terrain, same-type enemy units spread out in neat little clusters around the map so you never fight units of different types at once), or Shigure's (nonexistent enemy composition + Pez dispenser enemy AI), you start to realize you can do a lot worse than that.
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On May 10 2016 05:33 TheYango wrote:No, it's a map specific problem. Lowmanning w/ juggernaut units are a specific problem of maps that are overly-heavily focused on enemy phase and don't have enough things going on in different places to encourage your units to spread out and do different things. When you have time sensitive objectives that require mixed contribution from different units on player phase, it's hard to bank on a single guard stance juggernaut to do everything. Like turtling, lowmanning is a natural dominant strategy in Fire Emblem due to the nature of unit scaling. It's on the designer to combat this by designing maps in a way that encourages using your entire deployment, just like it's on the designer to combat turtling by designing maps that require proactive play rather than turtling. Show nested quote +On May 10 2016 05:14 Cricketer12 wrote:
You wanna add conq 18 and birth 10 to that list? You mean 19, not 18 right? 19 is the Fox hell map. It's a garbage map but still marginally better than the unholy trinity, since beneath the shitty gimmick, you're still playing a Fire Emblem map. BR10 isn't even BR's worst map. That honor probably goes to one of the three stupid Faceless maps (Leo's map, Fort Dragonfall, or the stupid lava map). I'd probably give it to Leo's map just because of the sheer laziness of it. And yeah, it's probably also a bottom-5 map in Fates. TBH BR10 is actually pretty far from being a bottom-5 map. It's a really boring and grindy map, especially on Lunatic, but at least it has some semblance of enemy composition and useful terrain. When we start including child maps like Kana's (flat open terrain, same-type enemy units spread out in neat little clusters around the map so you never fight units of different types at once), or Shigure's (nonexistent enemy composition + Pez dispenser enemy AI), you start to realize you can do a lot worse than that.
yea I meant 19, and crap I forgot about the faceless maps...
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I went through the BR map list and I can't think of a map worse than Leo's map, so I think that wins.
It's just too comically terrible.
EDIT: Actually, I think there's an argument for BR20 being the worst map. Technically, there's a real map there so at face value it's better than Leo's map. But if you account for the fact that the map itself is copy-pasted from Conquest Ch 9, everything new about the map involves replacing real enemies with shitty Faceless, so it's probably worse.
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On May 10 2016 06:14 TheYango wrote:
I went through the BR map list and I can't think of a map worse than Leo's map, so I think that wins.
It's just too comically terrible.
EDIT: Actually, I think there's an argument for BR20 being the worst map. Technically, there's a real map there so at face value it's better than Leo's map. But if you account for the fact that the map itself is copy-pasted from Conquest Ch 9, everything new about the map involves replacing real enemies with shitty Faceless, so it's probably worse.
The one semi nice thing is that in the bottom path. Faceless spawn on dv everyturn so you cant solo unless you want to just run through...
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You can actually use Scarlet to lunge over the wall into the boss room, lol.
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On May 10 2016 07:01 TheYango wrote:
You can actually use Scarlet to lunge over the wall into the boss room, lol.
Hahaha you're right!
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Anyone get Map Pack 2 and is it any good?
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On May 12 2016 09:49 deth2munkies wrote:
Anyone get Map Pack 2 and is it any good?
Even if you buy the whole map pack, you only get the maps as they are released. The second map just released today, so most likely anyone who got the whole pack still has only gotten to play the first map.
Restarted my CQ draft playthrough, since I've been away from it for too long thanks to exams and other things. I also wanted to change my avatar reclass because I had some new ideas for how I want to play some of the later chapters. Settled on the tried-and-true +Str/-Luck Cav. I'll probably still eat the Spirit Dusts anyway to use the Levin Sword, since I didn't draft anyone else who really uses them well, and going with a sword class just makes my early-game smoother since drafting Mozu means I have 3 units competing for the first 2 Heart Seals, and being able to put off reclassing one of them makes things less frustrating. I played straight from BoF to chapter 10.
Chapter 10 might not be my favorite chapter in the game, but damn, it's a satisfying map to play every time. I think this is the first time I've beaten the map with no resets, and every time I come back to it, the map getting that much easier feels like a testament to how much better I've gotten at the game. Decided to burn a Master Seal to try something I've been meaning to for a while: early-promoting Nyx to DK for this chapter. The results were very good. She can basically solo the Oni Savages on the left side, and having 8 mov means that once the water drops she can cross the channel and help out the middle lanes in a single turn, rather than taking 2 if she were unmounted. When I get back to playing a normal full recruitment Lunatic playthrough again, I'll definitely be looking to see how she performs there.
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On May 13 2016 03:08 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2016 09:49 deth2munkies wrote:
Anyone get Map Pack 2 and is it any good? Even if you buy the whole map pack, you only get the maps as they are released. The second map just released today, so most likely anyone who got the whole pack still has only gotten to play the first map. Restarted my CQ draft playthrough, since I've been away from it for too long thanks to exams and other things. I also wanted to change my avatar reclass because I had some new ideas for how I want to play some of the later chapters. Settled on the tried-and-true +Str/-Luck Cav. I'll probably still eat the Spirit Dusts anyway to use the Levin Sword, since I didn't draft anyone else who really uses them well, and going with a sword class just makes my early-game smoother since drafting Mozu means I have 3 units competing for the first 2 Heart Seals, and being able to put off reclassing one of them makes things less frustrating. I played straight from BoF to chapter 10. Chapter 10 might not be my favorite chapter in the game, but damn, it's a satisfying map to play every time. I think this is the first time I've beaten the map with no resets, and every time I come back to it, the map getting that much easier feels like a testament to how much better I've gotten at the game. Decided to burn a Master Seal to try something I've been meaning to for a while: early-promoting Nyx to DK for this chapter. The results were very good. She can basically solo the Oni Savages on the left side, and having 8 mov means that once the water drops she can cross the channel and help out the middle lanes in a single turn, rather than taking 2 if she were unmounted. When I get back to playing a normal full recruitment Lunatic playthrough again, I'll definitely be looking to see how she performs there.
Map pack 2 is pretty fun. There is a challenge at the beginning...but i personally feel that once you understand how to play the map it becomes much easier. Although there will be sections towards the end that can be a pain (the knights in map 1, the final group on left side in map 2). I have had fun with it...but really it may not be a bad idea to just look up the story on youtube and just buy the last map if you dont want to shell out 9 bucks for 6 maps...i dunno its up to how much you value the extra maps. Having played all dlc released thus far, I can safely say these are easily top 2. With the royal royale being the only ones that are as good.
Yango I'm curious what your top 5 maps.
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CQ 10, CQ 24, CQ 25, Soleil's Para, Nina's Para
Not sure about the order, other than CQ 24 being my favorite. Objectively, I don't consider it the best map, it's just my favorite because of how the DV mechanic adds a ton of depth to a deceptively simple-looking map layout (it looks like an open, terrain-less map when you deploy!). It's funny, I didn't fully appreciate it until I played it the second time, because I rescue-skipped it the first time (a strike against it, but not a huge one since rescue is so limited and necessary in lategame CQ). I only decided to play it "for real" on my second playthrough.
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On May 13 2016 07:05 TheYango wrote:
CQ 10, CQ 24, CQ 25, Soleil's Para, Nina's Para
Not sure about the order, other than CQ 24 being my favorite. Objectively, I don't consider it the best map, it's just my favorite because of how the DV mechanic adds a ton of depth to a deceptively simple-looking map layout (it looks like an open, terrain-less map when you deploy!). It's funny, I didn't fully appreciate it until I played it the second time, because I rescue-skipped it the first time (a strike against it, but not a huge one since rescue is so limited and necessary in lategame CQ). I only decided to play it "for real" on my second playthrough.
Nina's para seems an interesting choice. Do you try and chase them all down before they escape?
I do agree with Chap 24. One of the few good uses of DV's...21 being another example
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Yes. For assessing most maps I assume that you're going for the side objectives, since they exist to provide incentive for you to make the effort to get them. If the incentives are disproportionately poor and fail to do this, that is in and of itself a strike against the map, but I would consider that separately since it's a fairly easy problem to fix without touching the rest of the map (just make the rewards better).
21's DV is good but the map itself isn't so great, due to having weaker enemy composition, lacking side objectives and being more prone to lowmanning (a product of the first 2 faults).
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I really disliked 24 the first time around, but my team was completely terrible that time. It's a lot more fun when you're using a lot of fliers and have self sufficient combat units.
Something about CQ, I can't think of any maps I really like. The whole is much greater than the sum of its parts this time around. Tactically, I think most of the maps are kind of trivial once you understand the games mechanics, but it's still satisfying to see 23-27 pull together.
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Wanna hear a joke guys? Fire Emblem Fates is released in a week over here! Time to catch up on 56 pages of thread?
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Nina's Paralogue is piss easy (even assuming you go for all 3 thieves) if you do it prior to Ch 20, and gets much more difficult if you wait. The upgraded units make all the difference.
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I can agree with Nina's paralogue on that. I waited until Chapter 26 to do it (On one of my runs I was just holding paralogues til late since I didn't use them) and it was a huge pain with all the upgraded units.
I think it would be much easier when you do it before all the promotions.
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Ya, I ended up not bothering with the right side. And I didn't know about the mechanic that made reinforcements leave the map after killing certain units. That would've made it easier. Pretty sure I did it past Chapter 20 as well since I remember promoted units.
Also, is there a site where I can easily plug in character levels and see what the expected value of that character's stats would be? I get the feeling a lot of my conq chars ended up with lopsided stats.
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http://serenesforest.net/fire-emblem-fates/ is the best source for data in English right now, as far as I know of.
Average stats are a little bit of a mess, as they will vary based on the class. I'm sure someone's written a script of some sort as well.
To calculate it yourself, the growth rate in any given stat will be the Character Growth Rate + Class Growth Rate.
Final Formula would be Character Base Stat + Total Growth Rate * Number of Levels + (Class Base Stat - Original Class Base Stat).
And yes, the conquest characters stats general turn out very lopsided.
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There's also this, which saves you some work:
https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/hiushi/FE14AverageStats/blob/master/index.html
It still uses the fan-translated Japanese names though.
On May 13 2016 23:01 deth2munkies wrote:
Nina's Paralogue is piss easy (even assuming you go for all 3 thieves) if you do it prior to Ch 20, and gets much more difficult if you wait. The upgraded units make all the difference.
I'd only ever do it between chapter 24 and 25 since that's really the time when she's actually useful to have. Doing her after Niles is level 15 allows her to get Pass, Shurikenbreaker, and Lucky Seven all in one go rather than having to reclass her around to get them.
The only children I regularly recruit early are Percy (paralogue money is more impactful early) and Dwyer (healer for Ch. 12 when you have Paladin Jakob). I can see the argument for Shigure but it's non-trivial to build Azura's support that high without grinding or significantly changing your play to do so, and I'd rather he inherit Voice of Peace than Luck+4 anyway. Most of the other kids I either don't think are worth using (Kana, Midori, Ignatius, Soleil), have fathers that I don't get that early to begin with (Velouria, Siegbert, Forrest), or are slightly redundant with other units so I can't fit them till I have more deployment slots (Sophie, Nina).
EDIT: Forgot about Ophelia. Ophelia's weird due to how limited her pool of reasonable mothers is, so unless her mother is 1st Felicia or Nyx, it's kind of hard to get her early to begin with. That said, she's a far better unit post-promote so I would still err on the side of getting her late.
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Also don't the Siegbert's map after Chapter 18, lol. I don't actually know if it's possible with some team comps, because I'm pretty sure most people aren't doing a run with 3 Bow Knights.
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EPT
