EPTOff the top of my head, Odin through samurai line can probably barely make it, and Effie with Axefaire if you can get them elbow room or some other damage skill.
Edit : Odin is probably relatively easy since he can also get line of death.
Fire Emblem - Page 58
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chocorush
694 Posts
Off the top of my head, Odin through samurai line can probably barely make it, and Effie with Axefaire if you can get them elbow room or some other damage skill. Edit : Odin is probably relatively easy since he can also get line of death. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
EDIT: Berserker Effie's also just a funny unit in general, tbh. You can get her Atk high enough to be able to OHKO ch. 25 Wary Fighter generals. | ||
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chocorush
694 Posts
The real problem is sinking that many resources to make Odin good. I have never liked the guy, and if it wasn't for ophelia, I think he's legitimately worse than Mozu. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On May 15 2016 21:38 chocorush wrote: I thought the second takumi gets blocked in guard stance. Either way, it's such short map that it's pretty reasonable to have a RNG reliant strategy. Derp, I shouldn't post when I'm tired, lol. On May 15 2016 21:38 chocorush wrote: The real problem is sinking that many resources to make Odin good. I have never liked the guy, and if it wasn't for ophelia, I think he's legitimately worse than Mozu. Pretty much. I'm not sure about worse than Mozu though, mostly because Mozu has to take a Heart Seal away from someone else to get going which is a pretty significant cost--as is, the first 5 Heart Seals are pretty tight for me at this point and using one on Mozu would drastically change how certain units get used. Raising Mozu as Villager and not Archer just seems way too ridiculous for me to consider. | ||
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chocorush
694 Posts
Odin requires way more babysitting with bases as bad as Mozu at a higher level, and without a power spike at level 10. In my draft run, feeding almost all of chapter 8 and Mozu's paralogue, he was still pretty much dead weight. Villager Mozu on the other hand is complete garbage. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On May 16 2016 03:14 chocorush wrote: I think being mutually exclusive with other character uses but potent with investment is still better than just being straight up bad or mediocre with heavy investment until you hit 20/1. When you put it that way, I think you're right. TBH Odin, Laslow, and 2nd Jakob are the only units that I'd outright consider to be "legitimately bad". Those 3 are in the position of not only being bad combat units but also not bringing any form of secondary utility along for the ride that justifies deployment. Nyx is at least useful at her join time and can be transitioned into Leo pair-up, and Charlotte/Benny have good pair up bonuses that are valuable for a couple units. | ||
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fasdaf
138 Posts
On May 15 2016 12:37 TheYango wrote: That's the thing, I'm not sure if the Dragon Fang addition is (attack)* 0.25 or (attack)* 0.375 (i.e. does Yato's mitigation of the Dragonskin modifier also apply to skill procs or is it just your primary attack damage?). It doesn't *really* matter here though because you have enough modifiers to spare that you can hit the necessary threshold either way. Technically, it's +29 since she'll also naturally get Quick Draw going through Archer. There are a lot of modifiers, but it's still pretty hard to replicate with other characters. Dragon Fang is (attack)*0.25 even with Yato. Assuming no other damage-boosting skills, the benchmark is 66 displayed attack if using a Gunter pairup, 68 otherwise. The DF proc doesn't apply to the +3 from Gunter's personal or the +1 for WTA, so you're better off with a +7 str pairup if available rather than WL Gunter (unless you have an S-support with him). That translates to 37/36 Str as a Great Knight with Gunter/+7 str pairup assuming you're using all possible boosts (tonic+rally+Laslow only, as mess hall is unavailable). If you're running +Mag/-Luk or +Spd/-Luk those numbers are actually pretty hard to hit, but you can get around that by reclassing to GK and picking up elbow room in Ch. 27 (using an eternal seal if necessary, which shouldn't be a problem since Ch. 26 throws crazy amounts of gold and sellable weapons at you). Honestly, you guys are way overestimating the difficulty of raising units and Conquest in general. Odin isn't hard to raise at all--he's a 1-2 range unit who hits res and doesn't die in 1 hit, and he can also reclass to myrmidon and be perfectly serviceable as well. Laslow is straight up easy to use, since he joins with solid strength and usable bases in general in a chapter where you have free +4 def for every unit, with +2 more easily accessible and another +4 from Haitaka if you want it. Sure, he's probably outclassed by your other units, but there's no real difficulty in raising him and his rally can occasionally come in handy. I used Mozu in my first playthrough (on Lunatic/Classic) and by burning some 40+ turns was able to get her to lvl 10 villager and C lances in her paralogue before reclassing after the chapter. Getting her to lvl 7 or 8 shouldn't take much effort at all, and raising her as a Villager after that point shouldn't be hard at all. Of course, given how her primary draw is probably strong player phase offense and near guaranteed 100% hit rates thanks to Quick Draw+Certain Blow, there's no real reason to use Villager Mozu, but it's plenty doable. Second Jakob has enough utility as a staffbot with Gentilhomme and easy access to Inspiration to make him usable. If your primary concern is just reliably beating the game, turtling tactics pretty much trivialize almost all of Conquest even on Lunatic, and there's more than enough OP units to carry the rest of your team and give you leeway to make suboptimal choices with the rest of your units. Hell, I'm currently doing just fine in my second playthrough (also Lunatic/Classic) using Wyvern Lord Elise while not using Xander/Camilla/Elise, though I have to say that Wyvern Elise is way underrated--the class bases and Str+2 are enough to carry her until you have Bolt Axe access, and Rally Defense+her personal give amazing utility, with low hit from axes (despite Wyvern Lord's high base skill) as her only real drawback. Also, you guys are getting way too hung up over heart seals. It's perfectly feasible to beat the game without ever heart sealing, and characters like dragonstone avatar can pretty much carry you through everything the game throws at you without requiring any heart seals at all. Sure, heart seals allow you some more flexibility and open up new options for your units, but they're hardly necessary. | ||
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chocorush
694 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On May 16 2016 06:51 fasdaf wrote: Also, you guys are getting way too hung up over heart seals. It's perfectly feasible to beat the game without ever heart sealing, and characters like dragonstone avatar can pretty much carry you through everything the game throws at you without requiring any heart seals at all. Sure, heart seals allow you some more flexibility and open up new options for your units, but they're hardly necessary. We know. At this point most of us have beaten the game multiple times, so the discussion is largely just a pedantic one for the purpose of making small optimizations in the name of efficiency. But we're well aware that Lunatic CQ is perfectly beatable without ever reclassing anyone and just using whoever you like, so long as you don't go and waste a bunch of important limited resources before the 24-endgame stretch. I probably wouldn't ever do it though--the day I go back to using a default lord class is the day they actually give the class a horse on promotion again. Conquest unit viability is actually pretty good--it's not like FE6 where the worst units are like Wendy/Sophia and total liabilities the whole way. It's just that units like Laslow and Jakob 2 don't really do anything better than anyone else at the point when you get them, so they still basically don't reasonably justify getting deployed over anyone else unless you lost some people. You can still use them if you like them better than the alternatives (or, in my case, drafted Laslow in our draft run), it's just not, strictly speaking, efficient to do so. Of course you can raise anyone by turtling and slowly feeding them kills, but I personally don't find that terribly interesting. It's a lot more fun for me to go fast--spending 40 turns on a chapter raising a trainee/Est is just something I could never envision myself doing. Other people like to challenge themselves by raising inefficient units instead and that's fine, it's just not my cup of tea. | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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Soet
Sweden66 Posts
On May 16 2016 19:38 Kipsate wrote: I can now buy either versions but there is still no special edition available in EU from what I know, does anyone in EU know where to get one? The special edition for EU sold out in early to mid march. second batch of special edition copies sold out 1-2weeks ago aswell. https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/49eona/the_big_european_preorder_thread/ | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States13996 Posts
On May 18 2016 15:43 andrewlt wrote: Ok, I'm planning to use Kaden/Keaton on my next playthrough. Is it worth it to keep them in their initial class? The shapeshifting classes sucked in Awakening so I'm kinda wary of using them here. Personally, I thought they were ok (ive only used em a couple of times though). Granted I thought the one shapeshifting girl in awakening was pretty good so what do I know ^_^ | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Beaststones being unforgeable presents problems lategame, but since the beast classes actually have regular promotions now, both Kaden and Keaton are fine midgame units, with Keaton lasting a little longer due to having more balanced combat parameters. Keaton also provides some of the best possible pair-up bonuses (+4 Str/+4 Spd class bonuses from Wolfssegner). He's basically the male equivalent of Charlotte as far as pair up bonuses go, and is one of the best pair up options for your best female combat units (in other words, Camilla). On May 18 2016 15:54 Cricketer12 wrote: Personally, I thought they were ok (ive only used em a couple of times though). Granted I thought the one shapeshifting girl in awakening was pretty good so what do I know ^_^ Taguel class in Awakening had the big problem that the class had unpromoted base stats and couldn't promote, so Panne would fall significantly behind your other units at the point where they started promoting. She's a prime candidate for using the first Second Seal in Awakening to switch to Wyvern Rider, since it fixes her lack-of-promotion issue, and uses her high physical growths very well. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13996 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
That said, they probably should have picked a map that isn't a candidate for Birthright's worst map as their starting point. I get WHY they did it, but it's still pretty dumb. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13996 Posts
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
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BlackMagister
United States5834 Posts
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chocorush
694 Posts
Mildly interesting is that Selena/Luna's name is Severa's original Japanese name in Awakening, which kind of adds to the point of trying not to arbitrarily change things when they work fine as is. The two characters are obviously the same, and in the original, the name scheme reflects that as Selena and Luna are just different versions of the same name. And then the really weird ones like changing reverse axe to dual club. Not really sure what they tried to accomplish with that one other than make it completely unclear what the axe does. | ||
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