Fire Emblem - Page 55

On May 08 2016 00:02 chocorush wrote:
I don't really like the early maps either. They're by the numbers routs with long streams of reinforcements on multiple fronts that encourage you to progress even more slowly.

On May 08 2016 01:36 TheYango wrote:
Ehh, there are a few maps in there that are "good enough". 7, 9, and 13 are probably the best of the lot with side objectives that encourage you somewhat to progress the map at a decent pace, and the reinforcement density isn't that bad for most of early game.

Personally, I think Ch. 9 is Birthright's best map, even though it's pretty average by Conquest standards.

On May 08 2016 04:20 TheYango wrote:

Curious, what are your two favorites from Rev?

My top 5 are probably all Conquest maps (or shared if you count Nohr Children Paralogues). Top 3 in some order are CQ 10, CQ 24, and Soleil's paralogue, then after that would probably be like CQ 25 and Nina's paralogue?

On May 08 2016 07:38 TheYango wrote:
Rev's endgame is actually decent as a setpiece, so no disagreements there.

I actually think that Rev's boat map is really bad though, and actually the worst of the 3 boat maps (which says a lot, given how boring Birthright's is).

The map is sunk by the combination of 3 things:
1) Easy flyskip. This in and of itself doesn't doom the map if there are enough other interesting things going on to make you want to play the map the fair way. However:
2) Waiting. The map just makes you wait around if you dont flyskip it. Probably one of the biggest map design flaws I hate (largely because it's so avoidable) is that making the player wait around doing nothing is not interesting and should be avoided.
3) Limited mobility and strategic options. Essentially, because the enemies can board the boats, but you can't go onto the ice to fight them until the map changes, there's just really not a whole lot of interesting decision making in the first half of the map. The only units on your team that really get a player phase are fliers, and that's it. Everyone else just parks themselves in a safe spot for enemy phase and lets enemies board and attack.

The layout of the deployment slots also heavily encourages lowmanning, and the map doesn't do anything to combat that.

On May 09 2016 14:40 Frudgey wrote:
Okay so I just played it, and Revelations 24 is probably the worst Fire Emblem map in existence in my opinion.

It just does so many things that have potential to be infuriating!

Though I may have disliked it because I was never any good at Metal Gear Solid.

On May 09 2016 14:51 Frudgey wrote:

I think my biggest issue with the map was how deceptive it was for what it wanted you to do.

But that map makes the Horus Heresy look tame. It was diabolical on a whole new level.

On May 09 2016 14:58 Frudgey wrote:

Basically the Horus Heresy was a fictional galactic civil war which permanently crippled an empire which was several thousand planets large.

I'm saying that chapter 24 was worse than that. I'm exaggerating of course, but I do honestly think that chapter 24 in Revelations has been the worst Fire Emblem map that I've played by a significant margin. I'd rather play Revelations 10 twice before having to play chapter 24 again.

On May 09 2016 22:11 chocorush wrote:
I thought it was pretty fun. It was pretty straightforward once you found out the pattern, and was quite satisfying to pull it off perfectly. My strategy involves a lot of high movement characters and shelter/pair up chains, so it kind of reminded me of some older games where you would do long rescue chains to move across the map.

Then again, for some reason I enjoyed the gimmicky maps in revelation for the most part. I liked the boat map all right because I was heavily flying across boats.

On May 10 2016 00:52 TheYango wrote:

The map suffers from three major problems:

1) Bad conveyance. The intro of the map doesn't clearly explain how exactly the stealth mechanic works in enough detail, which can result in frustrating resets if the player is only losing because they don't understand the stealth mechanic clearly enough yet. Beyond that, the map also kind of lies to you near the end, which isn't cool.

2) Ultimately, the map is really just trial and error with very little strategy. Once you know the movement pattern of all the guards, it's pretty trivial to just always be out of range every turn. No strategic decision-making or fancy footwork required, just rote memorization of each turn's safe spots. The problem is that to know the movement patterns, you're just hitting end turn over and over for a lot of turns. It would be more interesting if the map demanded staff use (e.g. Freeze to desync the movement of a guard, Silence allowing you to engage a guard without them calling for help) or specific movement skills, but it doesn't.

3) Lowmanning. I love GBA rescue chains, but ultimately, deploying any more than the absolute minimum of two units makes the map harder, because it's just more units to manage. You might need 3 so you can bring Xander if your avatar doesn't have Shelter for the last room, but in that case, you can ditch your avatar by the entrance so you're still playing the map with only two.

I still think ch. 10 is a worse map, but it's still easily part of the unholy trinity of Fates' most terrible maps for me (7/10/24).


It's fine if you're not flyskipping while having a sufficient number of fliers, but by default your team has only 2 fliers at that point in the game (and Subaki might not have been raised since you can't really raise the whole Sakurasquad without grinding--you usually just pick one). You have to go out of your way to have enough fliers for it to open up sufficient player phase gameplay; since you can't fly over ice and swap to a ground unit for combat--the flying unit has to be combat-capable themselves. Without that, the dominant strategy is to use few enough units that everyone can start on one boat. Even with full deployment, half the deployment slots are pointless because there's basically no reason to deploy people to all the boats. If it was a legitimate defend objective where you couldn't leave boats empty, it would be a much more interesting map, since it would both block the flyskip cheese and force you to spread out.