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On April 06 2016 16:00 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2016 11:40 Frudgey wrote:So I could have beaten Conquest, as I did endgame using the patented Yango-Rescue skip method. Problem was though, I had three people die getting this to work. I literally could have ended + Show Spoiler + miserable existence right there, but it would have felt pretty hollow. I'm going to try again later using a different method and try to keep everyone alive. EDIT: I DID IT. Nice! Did you just slowely push? Or get lucky with the Yango method?
Basically I slow pushed up until turn 5, (and by slow push I mean I went as far as possible SAFELY) and then I had this intricate set up where I'd be able to rescue skip two units to fight the boss and slay him. The whole goal was to cover enough ground that I'd be able to get two units down there to fight the boss.
+ Show Spoiler +Turns out though, I could have used the Yango Method because my Avatar killed Takumi in one round of combat - I activated both Luna and Dragon Fang in the same round of combat, so my grand plan was not needed at all. Note that I only had around a 6.25% chance of killing Takumi in one round. It was actually pretty soul crushing.
On April 06 2016 16:14 TheYango wrote:
IDK why it's the "Yango method" when some form of rescue-skipping is the most common approach to that map on Lunatic.
I called it the Yango method because at the time I didn't know that it was a common strategy. (I live under a rock I know) I just thought it was something that conjured by the creative genius known as Yango. Also he told me that's how he did it, so I just associated that method with him, hence the Yango method.
"The Yango Method" sounds really cool by the way. That should be a band name or something.
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Is there a difference between AI on Birthright? On Conquest it seemed like enemies largely ignored a target if they did 0 damage unless they could debuff the target. On Birthright they will always attack if there is a target in range. I brought this up before about Conquest and someone said the AI has been like that previously, but every game I've played I've been used to the Birthright behavior. The enemies would always attack if there was a target in range, making it very easy to keep your back line safe with a high def/res unit. In my Conquest run enemy behavior made it more challenging to protect back line units with enemies rushing by tank units.
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AI varies in level of aggression between versions and difficulties, yes.
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It separates fire emblem from other games and it is both infuriating but also refreshing that the AI "plays to kill" meaning if there is a tasty healer in range to one shot, they are going to do it.
Compared to other grid games where the AI will go out of its way not to make some one die. Good example is the recent Stella Glow. The AI would literally go for the highest HP target in range always it felt like. There was only a few instances later in the game where the AI played to kill and it wasnt in a good way. There's a few levels where a vastly overleveled god unit is kind of just watching the battle, and wont do anything. but if you get in his range/too close, he will start roaming the map and one shotting everyone. Pretty dumb game in general lol
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On April 07 2016 02:28 VayneAuthority wrote:
It separates fire emblem from other games and it is both infuriating but also refreshing that the AI "plays to kill" meaning if there is a tasty healer in range to one shot, they are going to do it.
Compared to other grid games where the AI will go out of its way not to make some one die. Good example is the recent Stella Glow. The AI would literally go for the highest HP target in range always it felt like. There was only a few instances later in the game where the AI played to kill and it wasnt in a good way. There's a few levels where a vastly overleveled god unit is kind of just watching the battle, and wont do anything. but if you get in his range/too close, he will start roaming the map and one shotting everyone. Pretty dumb game in general lol
Its that play to kill nature I abused in Conq endgame. Of course by nature I lost people, but it worked :D
Overall I have noticed that conq ai are less likely to engage if the only possible engagement in extremely unfavorable (Xander in a choke etc)
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Units in Conquest are programmed to not attack if they do zero damage, or have zero percent chance to hit. There seems to be some consideration for guard stance, but it's inconsistent.
The exception are some units that have damaging skills like snake venom or units with inevitable end. The game has the capability to change individual units AI, but I don't think I've seen any ninjas attack at 0 damage without any of those skills.
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I have seen a Ninja attack for zero damage, if once his shuriken debuffs you, he will then do 1 or more damage (which makes no sense since you will regen that 1 def and he will do 0 damage again). Likewise, if his debuff doesn't allow him to do 1 damage even after debuff he won't attack.
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That's dumb that Birthright has worse AI, it should be based on difficulty not version. I wonder if it affects the dlc missions too, will be a while before I even consider getting them. I'm also still curious at which previous FE games had the Conquest AI. I've 7-9 on Hard and Awakening, but don't remember that.
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It's also dumb that Birthright gets shittier maps, but w/e. Apparently someone at IS thought beginners can't handle complex maps with interesting things going on. Either that or they got lazy after the first 5-6 chapters because Birthright's best maps are all in the pre-Ryoma stretch.
Enemies in FE4/5 will not attack units they can't damage. Can't remember if it was also the case in FE3 since it's been too long since I played it.
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I don't really get why they would have varying A.I.'s for Birthright and Conquest. At best I can think that perhaps Conquest's A.I. is more difficult (which, I think it is if it ignores units they can't damage at all) and they really wanted to make Birthright the easier route. If that's the case, then tweaking the A.I. is a nifty feature.
That being said, I agree with BlackMagister. I think it would make more sense to have the Good A.I. on Hard and above, and have the normal A.I. be it's usual dumb self.
+ Show Spoiler +Or maybe the A.I. is worse in Birthright because the enemies are operating out of fear - if they don't attacked they get a severe and drastic punishment. The punishment would be so bad that they would rather attack the enemy and do no damage over them not attacking and getting whatever Nohrian high command has in store for them. I'd be a similar principal to Commissars for the Imperial Guard in Warhammer 40k. It'd make sense given who runs Nohr.
Of course, I'm giving IS way to much credit here haha.
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It was probably a conscious decision to make Birthright play more like Awakening with its enemy phase super unit romps.
It is more difficult but I'm fine with either way. I like being able to focus defense on units specialized in tanking, while this doesn't really pay off if you have too much defense. It's kind of irritating how some units that aren't even that good in the first place lose their niche as an enemy phase tank because they have too much defense and you can't do much about it but wait until enemy power creep catches up (benny).
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On April 07 2016 11:41 chocorush wrote:
It was probably a conscious decision to make Birthright play more like Awakening with its enemy phase super unit romps.
It is more difficult but I'm fine with either way. I like being able to focus defense on units specialized in tanking, while this doesn't really pay off if you have too much defense. It's kind of irritating how some units that aren't even that good in the first place lose their niche as an enemy phase tank because they have too much defense and you can't do much about it but wait until enemy power creep catches up (benny).
Yeah that was a little disappointing as well. Part of the fun of having Generals (for me at least) is watching the enemies through themselves at them and amount to nothing.
That being said, I don't think I would have gotten through late game if Generals (and Percy) didn't have defense as high as they did.
I didn't use Benny so I can't comment, but Ignatius with aptitude actually turned out surprisingly decent. I mean he wasn't as good as Effie (Effie truly was the best unit I had), so it's easy to dismiss him, but I think he contributed more than Camilla in my run. I'd give him 8/10. (again, if he had aptitude)
Granted, my play style is very, very enemy phase focused so that could be the reason.
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On April 07 2016 11:41 chocorush wrote:
It is more difficult but I'm fine with either way.
Yeah, I agree it's fine. It's not like FE7-10 didn't have interesting maps with the easier-to-aggro AI.
Birthright's problems are largely centered around the lack of variety and complexity in map design, plus the corollary issue of the route not being particularly difficult, even on Lunatic (which is related to the map design problems). Still a fun route to play, but strategically not very engaging.
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Btw is Revelation AI like Birthright or Conquest?
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On April 07 2016 12:48 BlackMagister wrote:
Btw is Revelation AI like Birthright or Conquest?
If I were to guess, probably Birthright.
I think if it were like Conquest then Yango would have a reason to praise Revelations, which he currently does not have.
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On April 07 2016 12:48 BlackMagister wrote:
Btw is Revelation AI like Birthright or Conquest?
def birthright, especially in the second half, they just sit there until you get in range, then they throw themselves onto you.
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Finally got back to my draft playthrough. Played through 9, Mozu's paralogue, and Dwyer's paralogue. Will probably hit Ch. 10 tonight.
9 was largely the same as usual. I kind of wanted to play with captured units more on a CQ playthrough and capture the boss to get an early Rally Def, but my draft playthrough won't be it, sadly.
Feeding Mozu kills on her paralogue was something I hadn't done before. It was about as tedious as I expected, but she also came out of it with more levels than I thought.
Dwyer's paralogue was actually what gave me the most trouble and I had to reset a couple times. I hadn't done a child paralogue this early in the game before, but I wanted to do this before the route split, since my unit pool would drop down to 3 after ch. 10, so having more units to get Dwyer seemed like a better plan.
The early promoted units in these paralogues are an enormous windfall of XP, but also pretty brutal to actually kill when you take on the paralogues this early, since their stats are still incredibly high. Dwyer's map also has an overabundance of magic units and 2-range enemies, making it somewhat of a chore to clear the map. Fortunately, I was still largely able to bank on Jakob with Avatar pair-up to tank most of the map and go slowly baiting out enemy formations before taking them on player phase. Jakob and Avatar got basically all the promoted enemy kills since they were the ones who could engage them most safely. Silas and Mozu got some XP but not as much as I would have liked. Still, having that extra bump in XP should make Ch. 10 much easier.
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Do you tend to use Jakob moreso as a standalone or pair up for avatar?
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Standalone early game because he's pretty self-sufficient, transitioning into Avatar pair-up fodder once growth units get raised.
I'm not sure where I'll end up on this playthrough since my deployment is so low. He'll probably have to remain as a standalone combat unit, while Gunter takes over his pair up duties.
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I had Jakob pair up with my Peri and had Gunther pair up with my Avatar this run. I did this mostly because of the restrained amount of parents I had, and wanted to get higher ranking supports (since Gunther is limited in his support bonuses).
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EPT
