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Fire Emblem - Page 36

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chocorush
Profile Joined June 2009
696 Posts
March 27 2016 19:02 GMT
#701
Elise + Camilla aura with Niles gets a lot of work done just because he has such a high speed base and can double at 2 range before you have access to the magic weapons.

Corrin is also a good pair-up option because of his personal. I've personally done bow knight first every time and it works great, but I'm thinking if you're running effie/beruka support, you can very well be set as far as combat stats and lucky seven might be a better route to go.
deth2munkies
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4051 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-27 21:14:30
March 27 2016 21:11 GMT
#702
On March 28 2016 03:42 TheYango wrote:
+Str pair-up (best options are Camilla, Beruka, Effie, in roughly that order). First priority for Energy Drops because he has by FAR the best payoff for them. Bow Knight promotion because +3 Str/+3 Def base is huge (Adventurer only gives +1 of both). Reclass to Adventurer to get Lucky Seven and Pass at 13-15 or 15-17.

There's an argument for starting him in Adventurer and switching to Bow Knight at 15-17. This gets you Lucky Seven much earlier and saves you 2k gold for another Heart Seal switching back (since you want to end in Bow Knight regardless), but it's really player preference between that and Bow Knight's high Mov + better combat parameters.

Show nested quote +
On March 28 2016 03:27 deth2munkies wrote:
I made my most recent one a Great Knight that just carves through any physically based enemies.

GK has a really low speed cap, which is a pretty big liability in Conquest lategame. You can salvage it with +Spd boon, but at that point, you're kind of just better off being a +Str Paladin, which has a more balanced stat spread everywhere else.

It's for Revelation, so I don't care as much. Mostly for Luna + Alpha Yato one shotting pretty much everything. My Conquest one is screwed because I went in without reading a strategy guide or understanding how Heart/Partner Seals worked, so she can only really be Nohr Princess. Married to Jakob and Heart class is Pegasus Knight
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States14003 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-27 21:48:01
March 27 2016 21:21 GMT
#703
On chap 19, finally got midori and flora to complete the roster. Overall really solid. Corrin and Xander with Jakob and Felicia pair up respectively are the primary offense with kaze, niles, nina, and midori as support.

EDIT: wait still have one more child before full roster
Engage, Zero target Engage, Engage, Kagari target Engage, Engage.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
March 27 2016 21:29 GMT
#704
I'm curious what you did with Midori, since she's a hard character to do useful things with while not sandbagging Kaze's pairings. The fact that her personal speed growth is bad while Kaze's is overkill means that pairings that are good for her tend to clash with Kaze and vice versa.
Moderator
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States14003 Posts
March 27 2016 21:50 GMT
#705
On March 28 2016 06:29 TheYango wrote:
I'm curious what you did with Midori, since she's a hard character to do useful things with while not sandbagging Kaze's pairings. The fact that her personal speed growth is bad while Kaze's is overkill means that pairings that are good for her tend to clash with Kaze and vice versa.

Honestly i have just used her as a nina pair up. Her stats aren't really good enough for her to do much else.
Engage, Zero target Engage, Engage, Kagari target Engage, Engage.
chocorush
Profile Joined June 2009
696 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-27 22:46:17
March 27 2016 22:01 GMT
#706
Decided on +mag/-luk wyvern, and played until the beginning of chapter 7. Corrin is level 9 and gained +7 hp, +5 str, +8 mag, +3 skill, +6 speed, +4 luk, +4 def,+4 res.

It sounded outrageous, but I'm only 10 points of stats above what you would usually expect which is 1.25 points per attribute. People playing older games would probably be shocked at what growths used to look like. That the difference is mostly concentrated in magic is a bit unfortunate, as that is the least useful stat to have an outrageous amount of and I'm still stuck with physical weapons until level 2 armoury.

Edit: apparently you need +7 mag as a +mag avatar to one shot faceless on chapter 7 with a dragonstone with felicia pair up.
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States14003 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-28 02:08:01
March 28 2016 02:01 GMT
#707
You know for shits and giggles, trying to clear chap 24 with corrin solo, and it works pretty well, until i reach hinoka herself...azama's hexing rod is quite obnoxious...


EDIT: I have a strange tendency to beat a chapter shortly after bitching about it on TL...
Engage, Zero target Engage, Engage, Kagari target Engage, Engage.
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
March 28 2016 02:26 GMT
#708
Alright, I'm getting my 3DS back from my sister soon... which version do I buy? The differences aren't really clear to me.
:)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
March 28 2016 02:34 GMT
#709
What's your prior experience with the series and which games did you like the most?
Moderator
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
March 28 2016 02:49 GMT
#710
I've played both of the GBA ones, and the Gamecube one (Path of Radiance?). Honestly don't remember too much about those except that I absolutely hated permadeath. I also played Awakening on 3DS, which was my favorite so far due to the assist mechanic and the "breeding" stuff (hehe).
:)
deth2munkies
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4051 Posts
March 28 2016 02:52 GMT
#711
On March 28 2016 11:49 synapse wrote:
I've played both of the GBA ones, and the Gamecube one (Path of Radiance?). Honestly don't remember too much about those except that I absolutely hated permadeath. I also played Awakening on 3DS, which was my favorite so far due to the assist mechanic and the "breeding" stuff (hehe).


Birthright. It's the easier one.
Frudgey
Profile Joined September 2012
Canada3367 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-28 03:16:30
March 28 2016 03:15 GMT
#712
Conquest has both Arthur and Effie though, so I mean...

I remember that Yango did a pretty good analysis on the first page of this thread about the differences of the two games. Conquest is harder, has NO grinding (unless you buy DLC) but has traditional classes like Knights, Cavaliers, Fighters, etc. I think of Medieval Europe when I think Conquest.

Birthright on the other hand will have you use more samurai, ninjas, etc. Birthright certainly has more of a Japanese(?) influence on it than Conquest. This is also evident in the soundtrack (Conquest uses a bit of Celtic music by the way, which I think is nifty!). Birthright, like others have said, is easier and does have infinite grinding.

Both games have Silas (which is important to Yango), casual mode (so no permadeath), the pair up system and breeding.

Yango's Post:
On February 10 2016 19:24 TheYango wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

Been following the game basically since it's Japanese release through streamers and various FE community sites. Pretty hyped for the game's English release since people I know who have similar taste to myself in the series have ranked it pretty highly among them. Fortunately managed to preorder the Special Edition when it went up, so I don't have to worry about the version split.

For those who are trying to decide which version to start with:
+ Show Spoiler +

1) First off, don't feel like you are really compelled to buy all 3. The 2 main routes are more or less self-standing games on their own (the 3rd one isn't really, but that's its own issue I'll get into later). There are definitely people who've imported and felt one route was vastly superior to the others, though which one depends on your personal taste in the series.

2) Similarly, don't feel like Revelations is somehow a compulsory purchase. The fact that it's the "neutral" route where you get to recruit characters from both sides does not somehow make it the definitive experience. In fact, people have criticized the route for having weaker gameplay (including a significant number of recycled maps from the main routes), as well as atrocious unit balance (rivaling FE6 for worst character balance in the series) and difficulty scaling (Revelations Lunatic relying more on up-scaling enemy stats rather than enemy positioning/density). If the idea of Revelations doesn't appeal to you, then don't feel like you're missing out by not buying it.

3) If you are planning to play all 3 eventually, the recommended order is Birthright -> Conquest -> Revelations. From a gameplay standpoint Birthright is the easiest of the three routes, and Conquest is arguably the most difficult. From a story perspective, there's a natural progression from Birthright, to Conquest, to Revelations, where Birthright serves as a sort of exposition that raises some questions, Conquest reveals some of the underlying forces, and Revelations answers all of those questions. Conquest's story is self-contained, but I have heard people say that the story is less satisfying without some of the backdrop being set up by playing Birthright first.

4) If you are planning on just playing one of the two, then it depends a bit on your experience and what you expect out of a Fire Emblem game.

Birthright was designed to stay very close to the design of Awakening, as well as being of similar difficulty. This means inheriting a lot of its gameplay flaws that series veterans disliked the game for. There are repeatable battles where you can grind to level up your units. Map design tends to be on the simple side (Awakening map design had a lot of wide open fields with haphazard enemy placement, and Birthright does as well). As in Awakening, virtually all the map objectives are rout. On the plus side, the story for Birthright is generally considered to be the better of the two on it's own.

Conquest on the other hand, is designed much more in the vein of older Fire Emblem games. There are no repeatable battles--each mission can only be played once, and the only repeatable way to level up your units is DLC (though personally, I think this takes a lot of the fun out of this route). It's also confirmed to be noticeably harder than Birthright (as a reference, people I've asked would say Conquest Normal is about as difficult as Awakening Hard, and Conquest Hard is somewhere between FE7 HHM and FE6 Hard Mode). A lot of that difficulty is achieved through more complex map design and varied objectives though, so if that appeals to you, you might enjoy Conquest more.


I kind of rambled a bit there. If people have other questions about the game and any of the new features, hopefully I can answer them or find out from friends who've imported the game.
It is better to die for The Emperor than live for yourself.
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
March 28 2016 03:24 GMT
#713
I will readily admit when it comes to FE I'm a dirty casual. Didn't realize they were different enough to merit purchasing both though, I might just get both and play Birthright first.
:)
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States14003 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-28 03:31:12
March 28 2016 03:29 GMT
#714
On March 28 2016 12:15 Frudgey wrote:
Conquest has both Arthur and Effie though, so I mean...

I remember that Yango did a pretty good analysis on the first page of this thread about the differences of the two games. Conquest is harder, has NO grinding (unless you buy DLC) but has traditional classes like Knights, Cavaliers, Fighters, etc. I think of Medieval Europe when I think Conquest.

Birthright on the other hand will have you use more samurai, ninjas, etc. Birthright certainly has more of a Japanese(?) influence on it than Conquest. This is also evident in the soundtrack (Conquest uses a bit of Celtic music by the way, which I think is nifty!). Birthright, like others have said, is easier and does have infinite grinding.

Both games have Silas (which is important to Yango), casual mode (so no permadeath), the pair up system and breeding.

Yango's Post:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2016 19:24 TheYango wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

Been following the game basically since it's Japanese release through streamers and various FE community sites. Pretty hyped for the game's English release since people I know who have similar taste to myself in the series have ranked it pretty highly among them. Fortunately managed to preorder the Special Edition when it went up, so I don't have to worry about the version split.

For those who are trying to decide which version to start with:
+ Show Spoiler +

1) First off, don't feel like you are really compelled to buy all 3. The 2 main routes are more or less self-standing games on their own (the 3rd one isn't really, but that's its own issue I'll get into later). There are definitely people who've imported and felt one route was vastly superior to the others, though which one depends on your personal taste in the series.

2) Similarly, don't feel like Revelations is somehow a compulsory purchase. The fact that it's the "neutral" route where you get to recruit characters from both sides does not somehow make it the definitive experience. In fact, people have criticized the route for having weaker gameplay (including a significant number of recycled maps from the main routes), as well as atrocious unit balance (rivaling FE6 for worst character balance in the series) and difficulty scaling (Revelations Lunatic relying more on up-scaling enemy stats rather than enemy positioning/density). If the idea of Revelations doesn't appeal to you, then don't feel like you're missing out by not buying it.

3) If you are planning to play all 3 eventually, the recommended order is Birthright -> Conquest -> Revelations. From a gameplay standpoint Birthright is the easiest of the three routes, and Conquest is arguably the most difficult. From a story perspective, there's a natural progression from Birthright, to Conquest, to Revelations, where Birthright serves as a sort of exposition that raises some questions, Conquest reveals some of the underlying forces, and Revelations answers all of those questions. Conquest's story is self-contained, but I have heard people say that the story is less satisfying without some of the backdrop being set up by playing Birthright first.

4) If you are planning on just playing one of the two, then it depends a bit on your experience and what you expect out of a Fire Emblem game.

Birthright was designed to stay very close to the design of Awakening, as well as being of similar difficulty. This means inheriting a lot of its gameplay flaws that series veterans disliked the game for. There are repeatable battles where you can grind to level up your units. Map design tends to be on the simple side (Awakening map design had a lot of wide open fields with haphazard enemy placement, and Birthright does as well). As in Awakening, virtually all the map objectives are rout. On the plus side, the story for Birthright is generally considered to be the better of the two on it's own.

Conquest on the other hand, is designed much more in the vein of older Fire Emblem games. There are no repeatable battles--each mission can only be played once, and the only repeatable way to level up your units is DLC (though personally, I think this takes a lot of the fun out of this route). It's also confirmed to be noticeably harder than Birthright (as a reference, people I've asked would say Conquest Normal is about as difficult as Awakening Hard, and Conquest Hard is somewhere between FE7 HHM and FE6 Hard Mode). A lot of that difficulty is achieved through more complex map design and varied objectives though, so if that appeals to you, you might enjoy Conquest more.


I kind of rambled a bit there. If people have other questions about the game and any of the new features, hopefully I can answer them or find out from friends who've imported the game.

You also get Kaze in both :D

But yes as the others mentioned, conquest is considerably more difficult, but will be more reminiscent of GBA games. Birthright is like Awakening 2.0 in many ways. Important to note that in Birthright you can literally win with just Ryoma. However he isn't playable in Conquest so that is not an option sadly
Engage, Zero target Engage, Engage, Kagari target Engage, Engage.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-28 03:41:41
March 28 2016 03:41 GMT
#715
If your favorite was Awakening, you will probably like Birthright better. Most of the things people like in Conquest/dislike in Birthright relate to carry-over features/design choices from Awakening.

And lol, I like Revelation even less now than when I wrote that post.
Moderator
chocorush
Profile Joined June 2009
696 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-28 03:41:58
March 28 2016 03:41 GMT
#716
The difficulty of Conquest is really "fair" compared to hard modes from previous games (outside of a pair of skills found in the last chapters of lunatic). It's been quite a few years since I last played the other games, but as a gut feeling, Conquest once you understand all the mechanics is very easily controllable from beginning to end, while the other games tend to have some common factors that cause real headaches just because of how unfair they are. It might just be because this game is fresh in my head though.

Random observation, +Mag doesn't really have a weaker early game relative to a +Str start if you reclass to either cavalier or wyvern rider (with respect to a +str start in another class) because of the +2 strength and Elbow Room skills. +Str in those classes are going to be a bit stronger but nothing amazing (but consistency of level ups in lunatic is still a nice perk).
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-28 03:49:11
March 28 2016 03:43 GMT
#717
On March 28 2016 12:41 chocorush wrote:
The difficulty of Conquest is really "fair" compared to hard modes from previous games (outside of a pair of skills found in the last chapters of lunatic). It's been quite a few years since I last played the other games, but as a gut feeling, Conquest once you understand all the mechanics is very easily controllable from beginning to end, while the other games tend to have some common factors that cause real headaches just because of how unfair they are. It might just be because this game is fresh in my head though.

It's also different in that the difficulty is paced much better than other hard modes. The vast majority of FE games are front-loaded in their difficulty, where the earliest chapters are the hardest and the game progressively gets easier as you amass prepromotes, raise growth units, and generally cut weak links from your roster. Conquest on the other hand has a pretty easy early-game, a few midgame spikes, and ramps into a comparatively challenging lategame. It's also notable that the game gives you a lot of useful units very quickly, whereas a lot of older games overload you with bad units early and only start giving you good units a little later into the game (Awakening was also pretty good about this, but it's largely overshadowed by how quickly Robin overcentralizes the game).

On March 28 2016 12:41 chocorush wrote:
Random observation, +Mag doesn't really have a weaker early game relative to a +Str start if you reclass to either cavalier or wyvern rider (with respect to a +str start in another class) because of the +2 strength and Elbow Room skills. +Str in those classes are going to be a bit stronger but nothing amazing (but consistency of level ups in lunatic is still a nice perk).

It's pretty amusing that both classes lose 1 base Str from the reclass though (even though the skills net you more damage).
Moderator
deth2munkies
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4051 Posts
March 28 2016 03:47 GMT
#718
Revelation is bad compared to the other 2...the maps are just atrocious.
Alventenie
Profile Joined July 2007
United States2147 Posts
March 28 2016 03:48 GMT
#719
Well clearing through more Conquest with my team:

Chapter 13: Very annoying as predicted. Takumi definitely a pain to deal with. After I went for Orochi side first and pulled Takumi south out of range of his knights I was able to beat it.

Chapter 14: Got the rest of my characters! (Outside of children). Easy clear with picking up Leo and Keaton here.

Chapter 15: Got Gunther, cleared map for exp with Avatar in the Nohr Noble class atm.

Chapter 16: I cared more about grinding than gold, so I cleared the map (still got over 6k gold). Was able to promote Selena to Hero, and got Peri to 19. I forgot Shura had counter so I did 1 less damage than his max hp to him and had to redo the level. Otherwise very straightforward with my team.

Chapter 17: Long and tedious map is long and tedious. Leveled up Avatar to level 5 Noble here for Draconic Hex and reclassed to Spear Master. Grinded up to D spears in this map. Promoted Peri to Great Knight (want Luna at 5 then reclass to Paladin). My Selena is turning out okay although slightly low on Str atm. Hopefully can fix that with forges or +str items.

Overall: Still doing good. My main offensive units are all promoted (Avatar level 7 Spear Master, Leo Level 5 Dark Knight, Peri Level 3 Great Knight, Selena Level 5 Hero). My pair up units atm are also promoted (Nyx 19/1 Sorcerer, Keaton 15/1 Wolf, Gunter 12 Great Knight, Jakob 20 paladin) so I shouldn't see any issues until probably Eternal Staircase. I am saving my paralogues for after 19 for the faster seal upgrades on the children.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
March 28 2016 03:52 GMT
#720
You're going to get a nice boost for Selena when she finishes S-rank with Keaton (assuming you went that route). If marriage class access gets you access to a base class that promotes into a promoted class you already have, you immediately get that class's skills on your subsequent level-ups (e.g. since Selena has Merc!Hero, S-ranking Keaton will give her HP+5 and Gamble on her next 2 level-ups). HP+5 is particularly nice for Selena since HP is probably her sketchiest growth overall.
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