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If you're on normal mode, you only need to go through one side to get to the boss room, and left side will probably be easier since 2 puppet masters with 3 range and lunge is more reasonable to deal with than 2 rooms full of ninjas with 3 range and poison. Left side can be dealt with slow pushing and with staff use. Right side I'm not really sure if you can do much other than make sure you have a unit with kunai breaker to dodge tank.
I did +Str. I've been working on a Mag paladin run, and I've been finding that +Str is just much smoother for conquest all around. Damage wise, I was able to stay ahead of the defense inflation to ORKO most things until you got to the monsters chapter 21 onwards, and +Str Corrin is even stronger than Paladin Jakob, while +Mag isn't able to one shot things with dragon stone.
I did do most of my run on very aggressive player phases though, and Xander + Camila were able to handle enemy phase if there was anything left to draw out. +Mag is probably only worth it if you're not going to be investing in another strong enemy phase magic dealer.
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On March 16 2016 16:22 Cricketer12 wrote:
Would you ever recommed leaving corrin as prince/noble?
I personally would never do it. It's fine--the game isn't any less beatable if you don't, but the better class/boon/bane combinations just are vastly more powerful than Prince/Noble.
The fact that Dragonstones can't double or be forged just means that they start to drop off in power pretty significantly later in the game. At that point, Hoshido Noble is basically a swordlocked foot unit that doesn't get Swordmaster's passive Avoid/Crit, and Nohr Noble is basically a Dark Knight without a horse.
On March 16 2016 16:33 chocorush wrote:
I did +Str. I've been working on a Mag paladin run, and I've been finding that +Str is just much smoother for conquest all around. Damage wise, I was able to stay ahead of the defense inflation to ORKO most things until you got to the monsters chapter 21 onwards, and +Str Corrin is even stronger than Paladin Jakob, while +Mag isn't able to one shot things with dragon stone.
+Mag avatars in general sandbag the early game super hard with the expectation of getting carried by Jakob until you can buy a corresponding magic weapon (e.g. the Levin Sword).
The implication is that the payoff of having a hybrid unit that can hit both Def and Res and can tank an enemy phase with a 1-2 range weapon is worth it, but you're right, that kind of depends on playstyle. As we discussed before I prefer to reclass Camilla to Wyvern Lord so i usually don't have Camilla in that role.
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Camila is such a broken unit that you can do whatever you want and she'll fit the purpose fine. I'm planning on a Wyvern Lord Camila this next run to see what I like more.
Chapter 12 was kind of a slap in the face because it screws with all the things I'm trying differently, like running Paladin Jakob and pairing Elise with Odin.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Is there a comprehensive list of changes somewhere? I read here and there that some things can't double or crit(?) and that there is a more extensive weapon triangle.
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The only downside I see to the Nohrian Noble class is that you get hit by Wyrmslayer weapons. That said, between the Yato and the stat growths, it's pretty good. Then again, my options for reclass are Maid, Strategist, and the two pegasus knight classes, so it's not like I have a real choice.
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Corrin can Friendship Seal to the class of any same-gender character they have an A-rank support with. There's always something reasonable to reclass to, it's just your Heart Seal reclass allows you to do it much earlier and not put up with E-rank weapon hell. But even a late Friendship Seal reclass to something like Paladin is going to be better than staying in Nohr Noble.
Neither Nohr/Hoshido Noble have especially remarkable growths, and Yato is usable by any sword-wielding class. Nohr Noble's growths are actually pretty awkward for a physical avatar, since you're actually giving up growth in other stats for Nohr Noble's 15% Mag Growth, which does nothing for a purely physical avatar. And for a Magic Avatar, not starting tome rank until promotion means you're unlikely to get more mileage out of tomes than a Levin Sword, especially since a lot of the best tomes have very limited availability in Conquest (Horse Spirit, Calamity Gate), so there's still not much draw to staying in the class.
Also, both Noble classes have underwhelming skills (Draconic Hex is arguably worth it, but Draconic Ward is too unreliable and Hoshidan Unity/Nohrian Trust very rarely do anything at all).
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The biggest appeal will probably be the caps as a final class change. You'll have a little easier time doubling things with a lightning tome if you can get A rank.
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Im having a bit of trouble on rev 25. Is the general strategy to divide and conquer or start on a certain path?
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You should be able to do both simultaneously, but it requires you to have multiple units that can handle enemy phase. If you don't, then you do have the option to slowly do one room at a time.
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On March 16 2016 16:34 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2016 16:22 Cricketer12 wrote:
Would you ever recommed leaving corrin as prince/noble? I personally would never do it. It's fine--the game isn't any less beatable if you don't, but the better class/boon/bane combinations just are vastly more powerful than Prince/Noble. The fact that Dragonstones can't double or be forged just means that they start to drop off in power pretty significantly later in the game. At that point, Hoshido Noble is basically a swordlocked foot unit that doesn't get Swordmaster's passive Avoid/Crit, and Nohr Noble is basically a Dark Knight without a horse. Show nested quote +On March 16 2016 16:33 chocorush wrote:
I did +Str. I've been working on a Mag paladin run, and I've been finding that +Str is just much smoother for conquest all around. Damage wise, I was able to stay ahead of the defense inflation to ORKO most things until you got to the monsters chapter 21 onwards, and +Str Corrin is even stronger than Paladin Jakob, while +Mag isn't able to one shot things with dragon stone. +Mag avatars in general sandbag the early game super hard with the expectation of getting carried by Jakob until you can buy a corresponding magic weapon (e.g. the Levin Sword). The implication is that the payoff of having a hybrid unit that can hit both Def and Res and can tank an enemy phase with a 1-2 range weapon is worth it, but you're right, that kind of depends on playstyle. As we discussed before I prefer to reclass Camilla to Wyvern Lord so i usually don't have Camilla in that role.
"Sandbagging early game". What is this supposed to mean?
Do you mean chapters 1-6? You can do chapters 1-6 with a 0% avatar and felicia.
Chapter 8? If you know the trick to getting 3 villages, avatar is only needed to dragonvein. And you can do this chapter without needing jakob, because you have mr OP silas.
Chapter 10? You can clear this map without avatar(Have him as a pairup bot only) easily. You don't even need jakob.
Chapter 12? At this point, silas is still OP and you have camilia.
Dragonstone + has 25 mt. Enemies have less res than def, plus you become a MAJOR MAJOR TANK.
Levin sword has 11 mt, two range = 22 mt, but no skill procs.
The final form of yato comes with 16 mt but you can only use it for one chapter.
Brave swords are good, but you can't forge them, due to how valuable they are. They have the upside of being able to give you a higher % chance of casting a skill, but then again, it's unreliable. 6x4 = 24 mt
Silver sword = 12 mt, can be forged to like 14 mt x 2 = 28 but you get reduced stats.
Ginnungagap = 15 mt x 2 = 30 mt, but you get reduced stats.
Again, enemies have less res than def.
With an attack stance pairup, or with + mag pairups, tonic, etc, I never had trouble orko'ing anything with a + mag avatar the entire game. Plus, I got extra bulk with dragonstone. + str on the other hand. . .
Personally, as someone who has completed lunatic on nohr with both a str and mag based male avatar, I find mag to be way superior to str. Str has limitations mid game due to poor bulk, lack of a strong 2 range weapon, and reliance on doubling. Although swords will generally tend to have hgiher mt, this is mitigated by the fact that enemies have lower res than def. Also, against enemies with higher def, and skills that don't allow you to double, dragonstone+ > whatever sword.
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On March 18 2016 05:51 NightKnight1 wrote:
"Sandbagging early game". What is this supposed to mean?
Do you mean chapters 1-6? You can do chapters 1-6 with a 0% avatar and felicia.
Chapter 8? If you know the trick to getting 3 villages, avatar is only needed to dragonvein. And you can do this chapter without needing jakob, because you have mr OP silas.
Chapter 10? You can clear this map without avatar(Have him as a pairup bot only) easily. You don't even need jakob.
Chapter 12? At this point, silas is still OP and you have camilia.
Sandbagging in terms of personal contribution, not in terms of the chapters becoming significantly more difficult.
Jakob is getting my first My Castle Heart Seal, while the avatar is getting the Ch. 9 one. From that point forward, the avatar is going to focus on raising weapon ranks in his alt class weapon, and with a +Mag avatar, the low Mt of Bronze weapons is going to mean you aren't ORKOing things. You could bank on an Arms Scroll, but Arms Scrolls are reasonably valuable for raising your Wyverns to D Lances for 19.
Silas is strong (and is my favorite character in the game) but Paladin Jakob is outright a stronger unit until Silas promotes and his better growths take over. Until then, Jakob's early promotion bonuses and Defender create a statistical gap that Silas can't possibly beat (fun fact: Jakob's level 1 Paladin-reclassed bases are equal or better than Silas' level 6 bases at his join time in every stat). Silas is the better mid-lategame unit, but Paladin Jakob dominates the early game.
On March 18 2016 05:51 NightKnight1 wrote:
Dragonstone + has 25 mt. Enemies have less res than def, plus you become a MAJOR MAJOR TANK.
Levin sword has 11 mt, two range = 22 mt, but no skill procs.
The final form of yato comes with 16 mt but you can only use it for one chapter.
Brave swords are good, but you can't forge them, due to how valuable they are. They have the upside of being able to give you a higher % chance of casting a skill, but then again, it's unreliable. 6x4 = 24 mt
Silver sword = 12 mt, can be forged to like 14 mt x 2 = 28 but you get reduced stats.
Ginnungagap = 15 mt x 2 = 30 mt, but you get reduced stats.
Again, enemies have less res than def.
This is a disingenuous comparison. Doubling with weapons means that you also apply your Str or Mag twice. If you have 25 Mag attacking 15 Res, Levin Sword is doing (10+11)x2 = 42 damage while Dragonstone+ is doing 10+25 = 35. Being unable to double is a massive drawback on Dragonstones that you're hugely downplaying by ignoring how much stronger doubling becomes as your Str/Mag grow.
On March 18 2016 05:51 NightKnight1 wrote:
Personally, as someone who has completed lunatic on nohr with both a str and mag based male avatar, I find mag to be way superior to str. Str has limitations mid game due to poor bulk, lack of a strong 2 range weapon, and reliance on doubling. Although swords will generally tend to have hgiher mt, this is mitigated by the fact that enemies have lower res than def. Also, against enemies with higher def, and skills that don't allow you to double, dragonstone+ > whatever sword.
It depends on your alt class--I'm not considering things in terms of staying in Nohr Prince because gaining a mount, weapon triangle control, and/or better skills are just massive upgrades over staying in the Nohr Prince line. +Str/-Mag Ninja, for example, is one of the best reclass options in the game.
As Nohr Prince, you're probably rights, since the Nohr Noble growth spread is already Mag-skewed.
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Silas is not really OP. His growths leave him at the mercy of the RNG like most FE cavs, and he can easily fall behind on Lunatic with fixed level ups. My particular run he got like 5 speed levels out of 20 levels, which while below average is not unheard of based on my runs with characters like Kent/Sain, Oscar, etc. He's a solid unit on a horse tier for me.
A +Str avatar doesn't necessary fall behind mid game onwards. You hit such a big power spike with additional forges, virtually unlimited money for tonics, and Gunther support opening up that you can plan for a physical avatar continuing to ORKO enemies that aren't golems and wary unit generals for pretty much the entire game. Your base strength increase already starts you ahead of the enemy's defense curve, and it shouldn't really fall off even when you're hitting your str caps. Heck, even Niles in my run was ORKO'ing most things with just Effie support and his str cap is 6 less than Corrin in the same class.
Magic does do better end game raw damage wise, but I found late game after you've been long hitting your str caps, it still doesn't do more damage to the point where you ORKO a lot of enemies that a physical weapon will not except for the monsters mentioned that are only really an issue in chapter 21 and chapter 26.
Not being able to trigger skills with Levin Sword is also a pretty negligible drawback compared to a dragonstone. Being able to double will reliably kill almost everything in the game.
Edit: Another thing to remember is that Levin Sword will get one more damage for equivalent weapon rank since dragon stone counts as a lance, and is affected by Weapons Triangle. The higher resistance guys tend to either have axe/tome or are lance/bow.
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Also, it's a little odd to list the debuffs as negatives for Silver forges and Ginnungagap, but ignore the fact that Dragonstone+ also debuffs you.
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Lol not sure how to keep up with rev endgame reinforcements
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I'll admit, I may have trouble in the endgame, as Odin was utterly pathetic, and even a lvl 18 Nyx upgraded into Sorcerer (or whatever the ranked Dark Mage is called) could barely dent the generals that should have been weak to her on Chapter 18. I've never even had a chance to use tomes with my avatar because the sword is just always better, so now I'm stuck with Leo as my only mage.
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On March 18 2016 06:41 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2016 05:51 NightKnight1 wrote:
"Sandbagging early game". What is this supposed to mean?
Do you mean chapters 1-6? You can do chapters 1-6 with a 0% avatar and felicia.
Chapter 8? If you know the trick to getting 3 villages, avatar is only needed to dragonvein. And you can do this chapter without needing jakob, because you have mr OP silas.
Chapter 10? You can clear this map without avatar(Have him as a pairup bot only) easily. You don't even need jakob.
Chapter 12? At this point, silas is still OP and you have camilia.
Sandbagging in terms of personal contribution, not in terms of the chapters becoming significantly more difficult. Jakob is getting my first My Castle Heart Seal, while the avatar is getting the Ch. 9 one. From that point forward, the avatar is going to focus on raising weapon ranks in his alt class weapon, and with a +Mag avatar, the low Mt of Bronze weapons is going to mean you aren't ORKOing things. You could bank on an Arms Scroll, but Arms Scrolls are reasonably valuable for raising your Wyverns to D Lances for 19. Silas is strong (and is my favorite character in the game) but Paladin Jakob is outright a stronger unit until Silas promotes and his better growths take over. Until then, Jakob's early promotion bonuses and Defender create a statistical gap that Silas can't possibly beat (fun fact: Jakob's level 1 Paladin-reclassed bases are equal or better than Silas' level 6 bases at his join time in every stat). Silas is the better mid-lategame unit, but Paladin Jakob dominates the early game. Show nested quote +On March 18 2016 05:51 NightKnight1 wrote:
Dragonstone + has 25 mt. Enemies have less res than def, plus you become a MAJOR MAJOR TANK.
Levin sword has 11 mt, two range = 22 mt, but no skill procs.
The final form of yato comes with 16 mt but you can only use it for one chapter.
Brave swords are good, but you can't forge them, due to how valuable they are. They have the upside of being able to give you a higher % chance of casting a skill, but then again, it's unreliable. 6x4 = 24 mt
Silver sword = 12 mt, can be forged to like 14 mt x 2 = 28 but you get reduced stats.
Ginnungagap = 15 mt x 2 = 30 mt, but you get reduced stats.
Again, enemies have less res than def.
This is a disingenuous comparison. Doubling with weapons means that you also apply your Str or Mag twice. If you have 25 Mag attacking 15 Res, Levin Sword is doing (10+11)x2 = 42 damage while Dragonstone+ is doing 10+25 = 35. Being unable to double is a massive drawback on Dragonstones that you're hugely downplaying by ignoring how much stronger doubling becomes as your Str/Mag grow. Show nested quote +On March 18 2016 05:51 NightKnight1 wrote:
Personally, as someone who has completed lunatic on nohr with both a str and mag based male avatar, I find mag to be way superior to str. Str has limitations mid game due to poor bulk, lack of a strong 2 range weapon, and reliance on doubling. Although swords will generally tend to have hgiher mt, this is mitigated by the fact that enemies have lower res than def. Also, against enemies with higher def, and skills that don't allow you to double, dragonstone+ > whatever sword.
It depends on your alt class--I'm not considering things in terms of staying in Nohr Prince because gaining a mount, weapon triangle control, and/or better skills are just massive upgrades over staying in the Nohr Prince line. +Str/-Mag Ninja, for example, is one of the best reclass options in the game. As Nohr Prince, you're probably rights, since the Nohr Noble growth spread is already Mag-skewed.
Oops on dragonstone + - stats, but you have to realize that in the doubling vs non doubling scenario, doubling becomes stronger as the game goes on, and the more mag/str, and the less def/res the enemy has. In scenarios like the early game where values are lower, for example, hitting once with dragonstone and res, will be stronger than hitting twice with a physical yato vs def. And for late game, levin sword will > the other swords.
If you're going ninja, then you just gimped yourself further early game than a + mag, or a + str regular noh prince ever will because, you gimped your strength base, your weapon dmg advantage, and weapon rank. The ninja class isn't strong because the -20% skill relies on you not orko'ing. For promotion skills, yes, assassinate or the making a partner shit is stronger than anything base promoted noble can produce, but then again, I don't keep my avatar on nohr prince either. Reclassing avatar that early on in the game however, is detrimental imo because of weapon ranks, and lack of forging potential.
I'm also going to introduce something controversial here. I believe that one of your second seals should go to mozu, if you're doing a non speed run. In a casual type run where ltc is a non-factor, mozu will blaze past everyone in terms of raw stats due to aptitude, and because you can get mozu to lvl 10 on her join chapter.
For weapon ranks: Later on in the game, you can forge bronzes very cheaply, while an avatar reclassed early game into something that doesn't involve swords will gimp them hard. Even if you don't forge, arms scrolls on avatar>everyone else. When you say arms scroll for beastkiller, I assume camilla? The only real advantages that camilla gains as a malig knight over wyvern lord is bolt axe, and a tradeoff of higher res in place of def. This may be an issue of personal opinion, but I feel that wyvern lord>malig knight. I think that by the time camilla hits lvl 15, most people have reclassed her to wyvern lord due to chapter 19, and if you're going to do it regardless, why not do it earlier? rather than wasting an arms scroll on her? Savage blow as a skill is very unpractical, I find on camilla, because camilla's mainly a combat unit who orko's everything anyways.
Silas with vof+outdoor is really really strong and carries early-mid game. Silas will literally orko everything until late game, especially so with buffs, tonic, etc, and I'm not certain if a paladin jakob could do the same thing. By mid game, you're already blowing past jakob in terms of growths. I think someone mentioned lack of speed on silas. Dance, spd tonic, speed pairups, etc, more than easily patch up silas's speed until late game and keep him as a doubler.
I'm not truly sure if jakob > silas. Jakob comes with e ranks on everything, you gimp yourself of a healer by going jakob, and you lose out on things like outdoor fighter and vow of friendship, which I feel can make silas blow jakob out of the water in terms of damage. On the other hand, jakob gets access to defender, +1 mov, better pairup bonuses with the avatar, and maybe early game stats?
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Ok done with that. Time for conq. Im going with a female +str/-res samurai for corrin. Not really sure how I'm going to go about chap 10...
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On March 18 2016 12:25 NightKnight1 wrote:
If you're going ninja, then you just gimped yourself further early game than a + mag, or a + str regular noh prince ever will because, you gimped your strength base, your weapon dmg advantage, and weapon rank. The ninja class isn't strong because the -20% skill relies on you not orko'ing. For promotion skills, yes, assassinate or the making a partner shit is stronger than anything base promoted noble can produce, but then again, I don't keep my avatar on nohr prince either. Reclassing avatar that early on in the game however, is detrimental imo because of weapon ranks, and lack of forging potential.
Ninja Avatar is absolutely broken lategame. Replicate alone would be enough reason to be in the class, but unpenalized 1-2 range + a weaponfaire skill + high enough speed to double even some of the faster Hoshidan enemies makes it a dominant option for lategame. But to get there you need to start working on Shuriken rank early.
On March 18 2016 12:25 NightKnight1 wrote:
For weapon ranks: Later on in the game, you can forge bronzes very cheaply, while an avatar reclassed early game into something that doesn't involve swords will gimp them hard.
It's actually the opposite. An early reclass is better because Paladin Jakob is so powerful that he can carry you while you work through E-ranks. This is what I meant by sandbagging.
Later on in the route you can forge Bronzes but your team as a whole relies more on your Avatar to do things. Your early game party has a preponderance of relatively strong prepromotes like Jakob and Camilla so you can take the hit to the Avatar's effectiveness. You want to work through E-ranks while the game is still easy. Ch. 10/11 are actually very good chapters to go from E->D in something like Tomes or Shurikens because they aren't fast moving maps that cause you to give up anything for going slowly and training a weak weapon rank AND you actually get Invasion 1 in there as well, which is super easy to set up in a way that lets you comfortably raise an E-rank weapon.
Assuming you promote after the Ch. 15 burst of Avatar-only XP, Ch. 16-19 aren't actually good chapters to train E rank weapons on. Ch. 16 and 17 actively penalize you for going slow (Ch. 16 has the gold drain and Ch. 17 you need to keep Saizo alive to get the Speedwing), so you're most likely going to bank on Xander to get the most out of both chapters, which means that with a weak second weapon rank, you aren't likely to get much done in those chapters.
On March 18 2016 12:25 NightKnight1 wrote:
Even if you don't forge, arms scrolls on avatar>everyone else. When you say arms scroll for beastkiller, I assume camilla? The only real advantages that camilla gains as a malig knight over wyvern lord is bolt axe, and a tradeoff of higher res in place of def. This may be an issue of personal opinion, but I feel that wyvern lord>malig knight. I think that by the time camilla hits lvl 15, most people have reclassed her to wyvern lord due to chapter 19, and if you're going to do it regardless, why not do it earlier? rather than wasting an arms scroll on her? Savage blow as a skill is very unpractical, I find on camilla, because camilla's mainly a combat unit who orko's everything anyways.
Savage Blow is absolutely a skill you want to get. You ORKO the enemy you attack, but Savage Blow affects *all enemies in 2 range*. That sets up a bunch of your less powerful units to ORKO enemies that they would not otherwise be able to do so against. It works especially well on Camilla because she already wants to play that lead-off when breaking tight enemy formations on player phase due to her personal enhancing adjacent allies' damage already.
On March 18 2016 12:25 NightKnight1 wrote:
Silas with vof+outdoor is really really strong and carries early-mid game. My silas was orko'ing literally everything until late game, and I'm not certain if a paladin jakob could do the same thing. By mid game, you're already blowing past jakob in terms of growths. I think someone mentioned lack of speed on silas. Dance, spd tonic, speed pairups, etc, more than easily patch up silas's speed. If you're really worried about his speed, then realize that you can play around with 4 level ups on silas and his growths on his join chapter.
I'm not truly sure if jakob > silas. Jakob comes with e ranks on everything, you gimp yourself of a healer by going jakob, and you lose out on things like outdoor fighter and vow of friendship, which I feel can make silas blow jakob out of the water in terms of damage. On the other hand, jakob gets access to defender, +1 mov, better pairup bonuses with the avatar, and maybe early game stats?
Well for one, Jakob *does* get Elbow Room. Reclassing with Heart Seal retroactively grants you skills you don't have, even from the pre-promotion base class. If you reclass Jakob to Paladin at 5, he gets Elbow Room at 6, Rescue at 7, and Defender at 8.
Elise is already more than enough healing for the early game. The only chapter that having Paladin Jakob gimps you on is Ch. 12, but usually I recruit Percy around Ch. 11, and combined with Invasion 1 XP, I go into Ch. 12 with a few extra levels and a powerful new unit that's good at fighting Ninjas.
The fact that Jakob starts with double E ranks is made up for by the fact that by the time you recruit Silas, Jakob already has a C-support with the Avatar and is already activating the Avatar's personal. Silas needs to finish the C-support to get the same benefit, which won't necessarily happen on 7, since the Avatar and Silas aren't necessarily fighting together. By the time you activate it, Jakob will be done with E-ranks on at least 1 weapon type. Not to mention Silas still needs to deal with E-rank Lances too.
As far as their stats go:
Average Level 6 Paladin Jakob w/ 5 Butler level-ups: 24.5 HP/14 Str/13 Skl/10.5 Spd/13 Luc/10.5 Def/10 Res
Level 6 Silas bases: 22 HP/11 Str/9 Skl/8 Spd/7 Luc/10 Def/5 Res
Jakob has a massive lead in every stat, even before he gets Defender. Most notable is the Res lead (which is actually pretty significant against the Ch. 8 Dark Mages). Silas has ~10% higher growth in relevant stats, so he closes the gap when he promotes and gets his promo bonuses too, but that will be around Ch. 16/17. Until that point, Jakob is pretty consistently the more powerful unit.
Lategame you just turn Jakob into pair-up fodder for your Avatar, because while he ate a Heart Seal, he also didn't eat a Master Seal to give you promoted unit pair-up bonuses, and his personal means that only Gunther/Felicia can compare to how good he is for Avatar pair-up. Comparing Jakob to Silas is like a less extreme version of comparing FE7 Marcus to Sain/Kent. Purely on endgame stats, he'll get surpassed, but his early game contributions more than make up for it, and he is still good enough to contribute lategame if necessary.
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On March 18 2016 12:25 NightKnight1 wrote:
Oops on dragonstone + - stats, but you have to realize that in the doubling vs non doubling scenario, doubling becomes stronger as the game goes on, and the more mag/str, and the less def/res the enemy has. In scenarios like the early game where values are lower, for example, hitting once with dragonstone and res, will be stronger than hitting twice with a physical yato vs def. And for late game, levin sword will > the other swords.
This is actually pretty minor point if you ORKO anyways with a physical weapon. Levin Sword is better because of it's 1-2 range utility, but it's not the be all end all option that you must have. I believe you are greatly overestimating the difference between hitting resistance and defense. Now if you have nobody that can deal 1-2 range damage well, you're going to have trouble and get huge returns from +Mag avatar. The game gives you two amazing characters in Xander and Camila (if you don't go wyvern), one character that might be pretty good in Odin, and one character that will be at least decent in Leon. Nina and Ophelia will also be great magic dealers, with Ophelia probably opting for Nosferatu instead if you need to tank anything.
If you're going ninja, then you just gimped yourself further early game than a + mag, or a + str regular noh prince ever will because, you gimped your strength base, your weapon dmg advantage, and weapon rank. The ninja class isn't strong because the -20% skill relies on you not orko'ing. For promotion skills, yes, assassinate or the making a partner shit is stronger than anything base promoted noble can produce, but then again, I don't keep my avatar on nohr prince either. Reclassing avatar that early on in the game however, is detrimental imo because of weapon ranks, and lack of forging potential.
Sword weapon rank bonus doesn't kick in until C rank, which you're not hitting for quite a while. The window you're looking at where you can deal 1 more damage with swords is kind of irrelevant given the overkill a +STR Corrin will be dealing anyways. Shuriken is also one of the best weapon classes in the game for obvious reasons, and grinding the weapon level while the game is easier is easier. Poison is just an added perk, and not really the point of going ninja.
I'm also going to introduce something controversial here. I believe that one of your second seals should go to mozu, if you're doing a non speed run. In a casual type run where ltc is a non-factor, mozu will blaze past everyone in terms of raw stats due to aptitude, and because you can get mozu to lvl 10 on her join chapter.
If you are using Mozu, yes use a heart seal immediately. If you are not, the game plays vastly differently with a few more levels on Odin and Paladin Jacob. Selena is also a good early candidate for a heart seal so you can take advantage of her flight earlier. Personally, I like Mozu and think she's the best offensive unit in Conquest, but there are so many ways to play through the game that it's hardly a no brainer not to use her.
For weapon ranks: Later on in the game, you can forge bronzes very cheaply, while an avatar reclassed early game into something that doesn't involve swords will gimp them hard. Even if you don't forge, arms scrolls on avatar>everyone else. When you say arms scroll for beastkiller, I assume camilla? The only real advantages that camilla gains as a malig knight over wyvern lord is bolt axe, and a tradeoff of higher res in place of def. This may be an issue of personal opinion, but I feel that wyvern lord>malig knight. I think that by the time camilla hits lvl 15, most people have reclassed her to wyvern lord due to chapter 19, and if you're going to do it regardless, why not do it earlier? rather than wasting an arms scroll on her? Savage blow as a skill is very unpractical, I find on camilla, because camilla's mainly a combat unit who orko's everything anyways.
Does weapon skill really matter past D rank for the avatar? You're usually doing so much damage that the little bit of extra damage you get from weapon skill and WTA is not pushing you past the limit to ORKO. The opportunity cost of not insta-leveling a weapon rank on your avatar seems kind of small if you're only going for weapon skill advantage. Keeping them around so you can use a weapon you need is perfectly fine, whether it's beast killer for ch 19 or brave weapon for end game. It's also strange that you go so far to say that +Mag completely outclasses +Str, but you pass it off for Camila. She's getting like +3/4 more str/def through reclassing and growths and misses out on trample? Trades Bolt Axe utility for lances? Doesn't exactly sound like a slam dunk decision to me.
Silas with vof+outdoor is really really strong and carries early-mid game. Silas will literally orko everything until late game, especially so with buffs, tonic, etc, and I'm not certain if a paladin jakob could do the same thing. By mid game, you're already blowing past jakob in terms of growths. I think someone mentioned lack of speed on silas. Dance, spd tonic, speed pairups, etc, more than easily patch up silas's speed until late game and keep him as a doubler.
I'm not truly sure if jakob > silas. Jakob comes with e ranks on everything, you gimp yourself of a healer by going jakob, and you lose out on things like outdoor fighter and vow of friendship, which I feel can make silas blow jakob out of the water in terms of damage. On the other hand, jakob gets access to defender, +1 mov, better pairup bonuses with the avatar, and maybe early game stats?
Jakob's low base level, early access to avatar C rank, butler aura, and access to all of the perks of Paladin are that good. Silas doesn't really catch up until you get the promotion gain stats. But what does it matter if he reaches parity way in the mid game when Jakob has performed so much in the early game. You can even bench Jakob completely, and the cost of the heart seal would have been worth it. Playstyle wise, it's understandable that people don't like using jeigan archetypes, but that shouldn't mean he's a bad choice, because he's a very strong unit.
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FWIW, you can still feed your Spirit Dusts to Camilla and use the Bolt Axe even if she goes WL. Combined with her incidental Mag growth, she can still get to 20+ Mag before tonics or pair-up which is still serviceable. You lose out on the option of Shining Bow Nina/Niles, but both of them have sketchy physical bulk, so they can't totally utilize the benefits of 1-2 range enemy phase anyway.
I won't get into the Mozu debate, but it's not really that clear-cut that she should get one of the Ch. 6/9 Heart Seals. As good as she gets, she's still an archer, and playing with multiple archers demands a certain playstyle, plus the drain on everyone else's XP is not insignificant. Paladin Jakob and early avatar reclass are at the very least very competitive options, even in a non-LTC scenario.
EDIT: I'm also going to say that I'm actually loving this discussion. The fact that we have yet another person who's come into the thread with a TOTALLY DIFFERENT approach to CQ Lunatic (when chocorush and I already have pretty different approaches) just shows how well put together the gameplay is.
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EPT
