Fire Emblem - Page 26

On March 18 2016 12:27 Cricketer12 wrote:
Ok done with that. Time for conq. Im going with a female +str/-res samurai for corrin. Not really sure how I'm going to go about chap 10...

On March 18 2016 12:59 TheYango wrote:

Ninja Avatar is absolutely broken lategame. Replicate alone would be enough reason to be in the class, but unpenalized 1-2 range + a weaponfaire skill + high enough speed to double even some of the faster Hoshidan enemies makes it a dominant option for lategame. But to get there you need to start working on Shuriken rank early.


It's actually the opposite. An early reclass is better because Paladin Jakob is so powerful that he can carry you while you work through E-ranks. This is what I meant by sandbagging.

Later on in the route you can forge Bronzes but your team as a whole relies more on your Avatar to do things. Your early game party has a preponderance of relatively strong prepromotes like Jakob and Camilla so you can take the hit to the Avatar's effectiveness. You want to work through E-ranks while the game is still easy. Ch. 10/11 are actually very good chapters to go from E->D in something like Tomes or Shurikens because they aren't fast moving maps that cause you to give up anything for going slowly and training a weak weapon rank AND you actually get Invasion 1 in there as well, which is super easy to set up in a way that lets you comfortably raise an E-rank weapon.

Assuming you promote after the Ch. 15 burst of Avatar-only XP, Ch. 16-19 aren't actually good chapters to train E rank weapons on. Ch. 16 and 17 actively penalize you for going slow (Ch. 16 has the gold drain and Ch. 17 you need to keep Saizo alive to get the Speedwing), so you're most likely going to bank on Xander to get the most out of both chapters, which means that with a weak second weapon rank, you aren't likely to get much done in those chapters.


Savage Blow is absolutely a skill you want to get. You ORKO the enemy you attack, but Savage Blow affects *all enemies in 2 range*. That sets up a bunch of your less powerful units to ORKO enemies that they would not otherwise be able to do so against. It works especially well on Camilla because she already wants to play that lead-off when breaking tight enemy formations on player phase due to her personal enhancing adjacent allies' damage already.


Elise is already more than enough healing for the early game. The only chapter that having Paladin Jakob gimps you on is Ch. 12, but usually I recruit Percy around Ch. 11, and combined with Invasion 1 XP, I go into Ch. 12 with a few extra levels and a powerful new unit that's good at fighting Ninjas.

The fact that Jakob starts with double E ranks is made up for by the fact that by the time you recruit Silas, Jakob already has a C-support with the Avatar and is already activating the Avatar's personal. Silas needs to finish the C-support to get the same benefit, which won't necessarily happen on 7, since the Avatar and Silas aren't necessarily fighting together. By the time you activate it, Jakob will be done with E-ranks on at least 1 weapon type. Not to mention Silas still needs to deal with E-rank Lances too.

As far as their stats go:
Average Level 6 Paladin Jakob w/ 5 Butler level-ups: 24.5 HP/14 Str/13 Skl/10.5 Spd/13 Luc/10.5 Def/10 Res
Level 6 Silas bases: 22 HP/11 Str/9 Skl/8 Spd/7 Luc/10 Def/5 Res

Jakob has a massive lead in every stat, even before he gets Defender. Most notable is the Res lead (which is actually pretty significant against the Ch. 8 Dark Mages). Silas has ~10% higher growth in relevant stats, so he closes the gap when he promotes and gets his promo bonuses too, but that will be around Ch. 16/17. Until that point, Jakob is pretty consistently the more powerful unit.

Lategame you just turn Jakob into pair-up fodder for your Avatar, because while he ate a Heart Seal, he also didn't eat a Master Seal to give you promoted unit pair-up bonuses, and his personal means that only Gunther/Felicia can compare to how good he is for Avatar pair-up. Comparing Jakob to Silas is like a less extreme version of comparing FE7 Marcus to Sain/Kent. Purely on endgame stats, he'll get surpassed, but his early game contributions more than make up for it, and he is still good enough to contribute lategame if necessary.

On March 18 2016 14:15 NightKnight1 wrote:
What exactly makes jakob the stronger unit over silas. Res? Speed? 1 movement? Is that really stronger than outdoor fighter and vow of friendship. Speed is really minor if both units are doubling. Res, ummmm what map is res really giving people trouble. Maybe chapter 16? But you already said that silas is stronger on 16. To compare this with +6 damage and -3 damage mitigation.

On March 18 2016 14:15 NightKnight1 wrote:
Percy chapter 11. . . now you have a growth unit that you're training on chapter 12. Seems like you just sandbagged yourself harder. Percy's going to be level 10 when he joins, plus his bases won't be that great. All your units will be (depends on how many units you trained), 13+ at the very least.

On March 18 2016 13:26 chocorush wrote:


This is actually pretty minor point if you ORKO anyways with a physical weapon. Levin Sword is better because of it's 1-2 range utility, but it's not the be all end all option that you must have. I believe you are greatly overestimating the difference between hitting resistance and defense. Now if you have nobody that can deal 1-2 range damage well, you're going to have trouble and get huge returns from +Mag avatar. The game gives you two amazing characters in Xander and Camila (if you don't go wyvern), one character that might be pretty good in Odin, and one character that will be at least decent in Leon. Nina and Ophelia will also be great magic dealers, with Ophelia probably opting for Nosferatu instead if you need to tank anything.



Sword weapon rank bonus doesn't kick in until C rank, which you're not hitting for quite a while. The window you're looking at where you can deal 1 more damage with swords is kind of irrelevant given the overkill a +STR Corrin will be dealing anyways. Shuriken is also one of the best weapon classes in the game for obvious reasons, and grinding the weapon level while the game is easier is easier. Poison is just an added perk, and not really the point of going ninja.



If you are using Mozu, yes use a heart seal immediately. If you are not, the game plays vastly differently with a few more levels on Odin and Paladin Jacob. Selena is also a good early candidate for a heart seal so you can take advantage of her flight earlier. Personally, I like Mozu and think she's the best offensive unit in Conquest, but there are so many ways to play through the game that it's hardly a no brainer not to use her.



Does weapon skill really matter past D rank for the avatar? You're usually doing so much damage that the little bit of extra damage you get from weapon skill and WTA is not pushing you past the limit to ORKO. The opportunity cost of not insta-leveling a weapon rank on your avatar seems kind of small if you're only going for weapon skill advantage. Keeping them around so you can use a weapon you need is perfectly fine, whether it's beast killer for ch 19 or brave weapon for end game. It's also strange that you go so far to say that +Mag completely outclasses +Str, but you pass it off for Camila. She's getting like +3/4 more str/def through reclassing and growths and misses out on trample? Trades Bolt Axe utility for lances? Doesn't exactly sound like a slam dunk decision to me.



Jakob's low base level, early access to avatar C rank, butler aura, and access to all of the perks of Paladin are that good. Silas doesn't really catch up until you get the promotion gain stats. But what does it matter if he reaches parity way in the mid game when Jakob has performed so much in the early game. You can even bench Jakob completely, and the cost of the heart seal would have been worth it. Playstyle wise, it's understandable that people don't like using jeigan archetypes, but that shouldn't mean he's a bad choice, because he's a very strong unit.

On March 18 2016 14:24 TheYango wrote:

You keep mentioning Outdoor Fighter. You do know that Jakob retroactively gains Outdoor Fighter, right?

Heart Seal reclassing retroactively gains all skills of the new class, including those of the pre-promotion base class. You gain those skills immediately on your next subsequent level-ups.

Paladin Jakob wouldn't be nearly as good if he wasn't also getting Outdoor Fighter, but he does.


Have you recruited Percy that early before? His recruit bases even at level 10 are usually straight-up better than all your 1st gen units that aren't prepromotes, the Avatar, and sometimes Silas. He's a growth unit, but he pretty much always is immediately pulling his weight.

On March 18 2016 14:28 chocorush wrote:
Your points are kind of all over the place. You can use both Silas and Jakob simultaneously, even if you heart sealed him into a Paladin, and Silas will only have a situational +3 damage from skills over Jakob because Jakob also gets elbow room.

-3 damage taken is amazing early game on a +Str avatar, because you're using him to tank and kill everything. The added strength base + growths are enough to ORKO practically everything and survive (this may be different if you do reclass ninja but not every +Str corrin goes this route). Couple that with the additional 2 def from Paladin pair up, and you're looking at one seriously tanky powerhouse.

Edit: On Camila, She gets 1 Str, and 2 def from class change, and 10 HP, 10 Def, and 5 Spd for growths. It's really your prerogative not to pick up 4 more levels at some point on Camila, but you're really overhyping how much of a boost she's getting from the class change. In four levels (which come pretty quickly do to her low base level), she's missing out on .4 HP 2.4 Def, .2 Spd, and 1 Str, which is hardly game changing, and the advantage will be immediately balanced out the first time you use her aoe, and she gets the 2 def and 1 str back when you decide to class change.

On March 18 2016 14:58 chocorush wrote:
If physical ORKO, and Dragon OHKO, the difference isn't as dramatic as you make it out to be. My point was you kept on bringing up the importance of hitting res instead of def, but it doesn't matter if the unit is dead in one round either way. Maybe you'll do 60 damage instead of 50 damage, but the guy is dead either way. Are you really OHKO'ing everything with dragonstone? I'm pretty skeptical of that, as even good magic units tend to need the follow-up attack to kill enemies on lunatic.

Camila has 40 Mag growth. Maybe it's because I've played this game for a long time, but that's not a bad growth rate by any means, and she has no problem hitting 26+ Mag using your spirit dusts for which there is hardly any competition. She ORKO'd everything relevant, and never even bothered de-equipping the Bolt Axe after I bought it so +Str wasn't even a factor.

And she's getting 1 more strength from class change, as Wyvern Lord doesn't make your strength better until you hit caps (an amazing +2 Str more). She'll have 4 more defense at the end of the game once you've hit caps. Please, explain how that is game changing and a no brainer over having another character capable of flying and killing 1-2 range. It's good, Camilla's good, and Malig Knight is a perfectly fine class for her.

You can stay at Iron + Yato for the entire game. Forging is very good in this game.

Edit: It looks like you completely misunderstood how growths work in this game. It's Personal Growths + Class Growths.

On March 18 2016 15:20 chocorush wrote:
On average you will expect her to get around 18.6 Mag at level 20. 22 with 2 spirit dusts (24 with Ophelia's chapter). 25 with food and tonics. Somewhere above 26 with a pair up.

This isn't even considering that she hits 15 easier for +5 damage with trample, and the fact that the bolt axe has 14 might compared to other magical weapons. She's pretty much your only good magic axe user, so you can forge it with little opportunity cost. She has no problems doing magic damage to kill things even if you expect average growths.

Edit: 12 damage iron weapons are relevant because +Str Avatar will hit 40 str easily, + modifiers from supports (Gunther says hi). Do you not see how ridiculous a 12 might weapon is when you're hitting twice? Even with a subpar combat class like Bow Knight you will demolish things because your output is that high, and you shouldn't need more than iron until arguably end game. If you can overpower them with iron weapons, you don't need fancier weapons with the stupid drawbacks.