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Cleric Faye has Rescue, though it's kinda BS that nobody else gets it.
On June 05 2017 19:18 Cricketer12 wrote:
TL;DR: you don't need to grind at all honestly. But if you didn't train certain units the end of act 3 will shit all over you.
Yeah the main thing is that unit balance is kind of bad. The best units are absolute juggernauts that roll over the game start to finish (e.g. Alm, Saber, Mathilda, etc.) while some of the worst units are indeed pretty awful without grinding. You don't need to grind if you just funnel everything into the best units, but if you're training some of the worst ones, you're sinking a ton of XP for very little payoff and probably will need to grind to make up for it.
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On June 06 2017 00:34 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2017 00:28 TheYango wrote:
There's enough fights between Desaix' Fortress and the Sluice Gate that you'd have to deliberately not use the Royal Sword (or deliberately not use Alm) to not have Subdue in time for it. And even if you don't have it, you could do the good old fashioned warp-1RKO on Tatarrah. If you chain Warp and Rescue you should be able to get Alm or Gray to her on the 2nd turn, so as long as you don't deploy any units that Delthea ORKOs, you're fine.
Temple is kind of a slow grind and kind of RNG-dependent by virtue of random Cantor spawns on heal tiles in an enclosed space, but not terribly difficult. Note that you can use Mila's Turnwheel to rig Cantor spawns. who is supposed to get rescue on alm's side? I had warp in time for that map but im in act 4 now and still no rescue.
Cleric!Faye which is clearly her best branch
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On June 06 2017 00:59 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2017 00:34 VayneAuthority wrote:On June 06 2017 00:28 TheYango wrote:
There's enough fights between Desaix' Fortress and the Sluice Gate that you'd have to deliberately not use the Royal Sword (or deliberately not use Alm) to not have Subdue in time for it. And even if you don't have it, you could do the good old fashioned warp-1RKO on Tatarrah. If you chain Warp and Rescue you should be able to get Alm or Gray to her on the 2nd turn, so as long as you don't deploy any units that Delthea ORKOs, you're fine.
Temple is kind of a slow grind and kind of RNG-dependent by virtue of random Cantor spawns on heal tiles in an enclosed space, but not terribly difficult. Note that you can use Mila's Turnwheel to rig Cantor spawns. who is supposed to get rescue on alm's side? I had warp in time for that map but im in act 4 now and still no rescue. Cleric!Faye which is clearly her best branch
I ran mage faye since they give you silque so early. didnt feel I needed 2 clerics and you don't get a mage until luthier.
alm's side sucks in general though, im just going to pump stat increases with the messenger from both stories into alm and make him a super unit probably. Too many people either died or are weak to make that side salvageable for me at this point.
Celica's side is so strong its insane how many good units she gets
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Tobin's the only Alm-side villager you can justifiably make into a mage (mage Atlas is kind of interesting, but that's its own thing). The problem that all mages suffer is that 4 Mov is just intolerable once you hit late Ch3/Ch4 on either side, so they stop seeing non-dungeon combat. Tobin has Physic so he still has useful things to do while the other characters just do nothing as mages at that point.
This is part of why I dislike Gaiden's personalized spell lists for mages/clerics. While yes, it helps to make units feel unique, it also adds a huge unreasonable knowledge burden where someone who didn't make Faye a cleric or raise Silque just makes the game a lot harder for themselves--and the game never provides you the information to make that decision at the point of no return.
On June 06 2017 01:04 VayneAuthority wrote:
alm's side sucks in general though, im just going to pump stat increases with the messenger from both stories into alm and make him a super unit probably. Too many people either died or are weak to make that side salvageable for me at this point.
Alm's side is stronger overall, but that strength is focused on a smaller number of units. Alm, Mathilda, and DF Gray see the vast majority of the combat, and a lot of other units just aren't worth devoting combat XP to. Celica's side has a larger number of decent units but those individually aren't as overwhelming as Alm's best.
The real dealbreaker for Alm is just the massive number of support staffers to back up your smaller number of combat units. Mage Tobin, Cleric Faye, Silque, and Tatiana adds up to 3 Physics, 2 Warps, 1 Rescue, and 1 Fortify. That just adds up to an insane amount of mobility and long-range support that lets your juggernauts do more. Compare that to Celica's side, where you basically have Genny doing everything on the support end (and only having Physic to do it).
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On June 06 2017 02:37 TheYango wrote:Tobin's the only Alm-side villager you can justifiably make into a mage (mage Atlas is kind of interesting, but that's its own thing). The problem that all mages suffer is that 4 Mov is just intolerable once you hit late Ch3/Ch4 on either side, so they stop seeing non-dungeon combat. Tobin has Physic so he still has useful things to do while the other characters just do nothing as mages at that point. This is part of why I dislike Gaiden's personalized spell lists for mages/clerics. While yes, it helps to make units feel unique, it also adds a huge unreasonable knowledge burden where someone who didn't make Faye a cleric or raise Silque just makes the game a lot harder for themselves--and the game never provides you the information to make that decision at the point of no return. Show nested quote +On June 06 2017 01:04 VayneAuthority wrote:
alm's side sucks in general though, im just going to pump stat increases with the messenger from both stories into alm and make him a super unit probably. Too many people either died or are weak to make that side salvageable for me at this point. Alm's side is stronger overall, but that strength is focused on a smaller number of units. Alm, Mathilda, and DF Gray see the vast majority of the combat, and a lot of other units just aren't worth devoting combat XP to. Celica's side has a larger number of decent units but those individually aren't as overwhelming as Alm's best. The real dealbreaker for Alm is just the massive number of support staffers to back up your smaller number of combat units. Mage Tobin, Cleric Faye, Silque, and Tatiana adds up to 3 Physics, 2 Warps, 1 Rescue, and 1 Fortify. That just adds up to an insane amount of mobility and long-range support that lets your juggernauts do more. Compare that to Celica's side, where you basically have Genny doing everything on the support end (and only having Physic to do it).
I can only speak to my personal run but just starting act 4 and saber is stronger then the 3 of those put together. Alm has surprisingly low defense so he actually runs a real risk of dying, Gray hasnt reached DF status yet, and mathilda is about as useful as clive (liable to get 2 shot by anything)
My best guess is that they are underleveled or I got bad growths
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I would say bad growths. My Mathilda makes Clive look like a villager by comparison. She has same/better def, and has like 7x his res (I went and checked and she only has 4x his res, he actually got to 3 res finally). I gave her Riders bane from Clair (after Falcon knight promote) and she just tears everything apart without any damage.
I still haven't finished, but most of the way through chapter 4 and she is one of my units that I can just throw out there without ever worrying about dying.
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Mathilda has bulk issues until she hits GK promotion (mediocre base HP and Def), but it's not really that hard to get her there, particularly given how good her Res is, she easily feeds off mages on Sluice Gate. Once she gets there her bulk problems go away (GK base HP is disgustingly high), and she's arguably just your best offensive unit (Alm kills non-mounted things better with the Royal Sword, but anything that takes mount-effective damage gets crushed by +3 Ridersbane Mathilda).
On June 06 2017 04:10 VayneAuthority wrote:
I can only speak to my personal run but just starting act 4 and saber is stronger then the 3 of those put together. Alm has surprisingly low defense so he actually runs a real risk of dying, Gray hasnt reached DF status yet, and mathilda is about as useful as clive (liable to get 2 shot by anything)
My best guess is that they are underleveled or I got bad growths
If Gray and Mathilda aren't promoted by act 4, your XP is probably spread too thin. Past Desaix' fortress I'd give minimal combat XP to people other than those 3 plus Kliff if you want to keep using him. Clair starts to fall off and passes Ridersbane off to Mathilda, Tobin just needs enough to get to Sage 5 then spends the rest of the game spamming Physic, and nobody else is really anywhere near as good as those 3.
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thats probably my biggest deviation. Clair died for me so lukas has ridersbane and is one of my few good units even though hes supposed to suck.
Hes the closest thing I have to a complete wall since he was a baron before act 4 even started, he got insane level ups. Other notables are sniper tobin and mage faye. Besides that team is a dumpster fire, kliff is passable but also dies easily
Which is a shame since I guess im in for some levels where low mobility doesnt work so baron is pretty useless. Alm side is gonna be hard for me to not get game over'd probably unless I can get him to super unit or gray DF asap
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51630 Posts
I'll do a more optimised playthrough next run but what do I reclass all my dread fighters with?
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For main game it won't really matter. Dread Fighter is a good enough class through chapter 5 and it's not worth putting up with Villager/tier 1-2 classes during the maingame.
For postgame, it depends how your other units turned out, since with DF looping, your DFs will have better postgame stats than anyone else. You'll want to loop some of them back into DF since the class is still good, and you'll definitely want at least 1 archer, since all the maingame archers have kind of poor stats and the postgame boss is weak to flier-effective damage.
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I assume kliff is who you want to respec as archer, with killer bow he would probably basically crit every turn
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Finally got to chapter 3. Seems like there's a massive difficulty spike for this chapter. I think I'm going to turn Atlas into a mercenary, despite him probably sucking serious slew water. I'm not sure how good he is, but I think you guys were saying he was bad.
I think I also understand how Witches are going to screw me over. No number of armor knights will save me from them. The future is looking pretty bleak.
That said, Valbar is a crisp 10/10.
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On June 12 2017 21:31 Frudgey wrote:
Finally got to chapter 3. Seems like there's a massive difficulty spike for this chapter. I think I'm going to turn Atlas into a mercenary, despite him probably sucking serious slew water. I'm not sure how good he is, but I think you guys were saying is was bad.
I think I also understand how Witches are going to screw me over. No number of armor knights will save me from them. The future is looking pretty bleak.
That said, Valbar is a crisp 10/10.
Plz don't use armor knights past chapter 2 lol
Frudgey save yourself
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holy shit nuibaba level is literally unplayable without rescue, I didnt think it would be this bad. I successfully killed her but the gargoyle spawns and amount of arcanists is just overwhelming. I havent had time recently but finally tried it last night, I'm going to have to promote tobin to bow knight to beat this probably
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On June 12 2017 23:30 VayneAuthority wrote:
holy shit nuibaba level is literally unplayable without rescue, I didnt think it would be this bad. I successfully killed her but the gargoyle spawns and amount of arcanists is just overwhelming. I havent had time recently but finally tried it last night, I'm going to have to promote tobin to bow knight to beat this probably
It's doable without rescue if you have a good dread fighter (not that hard to survive an enemy phase when nui is dead and you on a heal tile). It's a damn challenge without warp...but really there is no reason not to have warp by this point.
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On June 12 2017 23:52 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2017 23:30 VayneAuthority wrote:
holy shit nuibaba level is literally unplayable without rescue, I didnt think it would be this bad. I successfully killed her but the gargoyle spawns and amount of arcanists is just overwhelming. I havent had time recently but finally tried it last night, I'm going to have to promote tobin to bow knight to beat this probably It's doable without rescue if you have a good dread fighter (not that hard to survive an enemy phase when nui is dead and you on a heal tile). It's a damn challenge without warp...but really there is no reason not to have warp by this point.
I only have 1 DF in kliff at this point, think gray is 1 level away. The problem is the NPC seems to camp all the heal spawns so that the arcanists can all AOE heal eachother constantly and they never lose any hp. Then if you try to go in and one shot them, you get mauled by the other arcanists/gargoyles. I didnt really put much thought into it yet so ill give it another try tonight
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Double DF makes it doable without Rescue but still requires some rigging because of heal tile hitrates. TBH it's a bigger loss to not have Physic than Rescue.
If Clair is strong enough, she can help bait away gargs to take some pressure off your DFs. It's one of the few maps on Alm's side where flying actually helps.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51630 Posts
On June 12 2017 23:30 VayneAuthority wrote:
holy shit nuibaba level is literally unplayable without rescue, I didnt think it would be this bad. I successfully killed her but the gargoyle spawns and amount of arcanists is just overwhelming. I havent had time recently but finally tried it last night, I'm going to have to promote tobin to bow knight to beat this probably
32 turns.
32 fucking turns of slow pushing.
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I think my Nuibaba map was similar to 30 something turns. I eventually got around top and Nuibaba kept trying to kill Mathilda out of all people. Was able to bait out the few arcanists that don't summon while Nuibaba kept missing her spell. Once it was down to just 1 or 2 guys left I pushed in and killed Nuibaba and then healed up my units.
Such a nuisance of a map though.
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I just spammed Tigerstance and Kliff solo'd the map by like turn 5 lol.
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EPT
