On November 04 2015 04:25 Dangermousecatdog wrote: So none of you have a problem with the 5th race being day 1 dlc? How about the 4th race? The 3rd race? The 2nd race? At what point does it become ridicuous that a fully developed faction is day 1 dlc? What if Warcraft 3 had day 1 dlc for the 4th race? Would that be ok because SC have 3 races?
Is this the company that makes DLC races for Coh2 and pretty much makes the game pay2win?
I think its fairly unanimous that people are quite miffed about the day1 dlc that should be, and clearly was, an integrated part of the game. But that is a different point than saying a game can't be 'complete' or 'diverse enough' without having 10+ factions - which is what people are discussing.
So on their forums they have posted a dev blog explaining their take on the preorder situation: Dev Blog Seems too much like damage control to me but perhaps I am too cynical. First guy tries to make the argument that a full game is one with 4 factions and that anything else requires more time and resources. Problem is that they announced the Chaos Warriors DLC with the preorder to drive sales, so the work was already done (presumably) without needing that extra income.
Nothing out of the ordinary from them, don't think it will change anyone's opinion on the matter however. People who were ok with it before will still be and those that weren't are unlikely to be swayed.
This still causes me some confusion. To people complaining, if the offer was: "you pre-order now and 6 months after the game's release, when chaos gets released you get if for free. If you don't pre-order it will be available then at 10€" (or some other amount) would you still be so upset about it?
you have to realize preorder bonus is actually post reviews penalty. i hope that helps your confusion, they dont give away things for free, they take things from people who want to wait a bit.
That its day 1 DLC of the most important warhammer faction is just making it much worse.
On November 09 2015 02:22 LaNague wrote: you have to realize preorder bonus is actually post reviews penalty. i hope that helps your confusion, they dont give away things for free, they take things from people who want to wait a bit.
That its day 1 DLC of the most important warhammer faction is just making it much worse.
I think I've replied to this before "the most important warhammer faction" is probably a matter of taste.
I wrote a huge wall of text replying to those points but I think it is not worth keeping this discussion. I don't get it sorry and the reasoning against it so far has not convinced me at all since I've seen it shift based on the counter arguments that are presented (not you obviously as I don't know, but just take a look at CA forums and you'll see...first it was a matter of principal, then the number of races that was not enough, now it is the fact that it is the most important faction, then it will be another thing). So we will have to agree to disagree.
I have been really looking forward to this game since it was announced, and hoping for it for years and years. the original Rome was such an amazing game, and they do seem to have been declining since then. i was pretty disappointed by Rome 2, like almost everyone, although i didn't experience the inital bugginess. The problem i have with the pre order 'bonus', or extra paywall, depending on how you see it, is that the quality of the game is such an unknown. If CA had a reputation for amazing launch day products, then i would buy it straight away. I can also see that CA do need to get the funding to make the game, and having read their blogs on the subject, i can see why they feel it is necessary. My solution would be a free 3 region/5 turn demo campaign. it would give people a chance to see if they think CA really have made this as in depth as they think they have, and if the game is good, people will preorder it after playing the demo. and while i dont know anything about making games, i assume it wouldn't be too hard to copy some small area from the game and use it for this. if they were really feeling apologetic and smart, they could even let you play the demo as chaos. then people who enjoyed it would pre order for sure. thoughts? is there a reason we really done see demo games anymore?
I'm not in the industry but nowadays it is fairly easy to go see what a game is like, on twitch, youtube, reviews, or whatever. Back in the day the only way to see what a game was like was to play a demo. If anything they should do some sort of closed beta and people who preorder gain access. Of course that pisses some people off too because they then feel that they are working on the game instead of CA doing their job (finding and fixing bugs etc.).
@KobraKay The main gripe I have is that it is 6 months out and they are announcing day1 dlc. If it is still 6 months to launch, and you plan to have that content ready at the same time as the launch, then you could have made it part of the game. And chaos should be a part of the game to begin with, not some extra bit that you have to pay for.
On November 09 2015 04:01 halfies wrote: I have been really looking forward to this game since it was announced, and hoping for it for years and years. the original Rome was such an amazing game, and they do seem to have been declining since then. i was pretty disappointed by Rome 2, like almost everyone, although i didn't experience the inital bugginess. The problem i have with the pre order 'bonus', or extra paywall, depending on how you see it, is that the quality of the game is such an unknown. If CA had a reputation for amazing launch day products, then i would buy it straight away. I can also see that CA do need to get the funding to make the game, and having read their blogs on the subject, i can see why they feel it is necessary. My solution would be a free 3 region/5 turn demo campaign. it would give people a chance to see if they think CA really have made this as in depth as they think they have, and if the game is good, people will preorder it after playing the demo. and while i dont know anything about making games, i assume it wouldn't be too hard to copy some small area from the game and use it for this. if they were really feeling apologetic and smart, they could even let you play the demo as chaos. then people who enjoyed it would pre order for sure. thoughts? is there a reason we really done see demo games anymore?
Demos take time and money to make and decrease sales of large titles since people can try them out. There is no reason for them to ever make them.
If you want a demo before release it means all the core stuff has to be in the game and working when they build the demo. Basically moving the release date to an earlier date due to all the stuff that needs to be done. Considering printing of physical releases (if people do them) it isn't a problem.
On November 09 2015 02:22 LaNague wrote: you have to realize preorder bonus is actually post reviews penalty. i hope that helps your confusion, they dont give away things for free, they take things from people who want to wait a bit.
That its day 1 DLC of the most important warhammer faction is just making it much worse.
I think I've replied to this before "the most important warhammer faction" is probably a matter of taste.
I wrote a huge wall of text replying to those points but I think it is not worth keeping this discussion. I don't get it sorry and the reasoning against it so far has not convinced me at all since I've seen it shift based on the counter arguments that are presented (not you obviously as I don't know, but just take a look at CA forums and you'll see...first it was a matter of principal, then the number of races that was not enough, now it is the fact that it is the most important faction, then it will be another thing). So we will have to agree to disagree.
I'll shut up about this I promise.
ok, but just one thing, without the chaos faction the whole setting collapses, chaos is all that drives this universe.
The plethora of different races and factions was always an integral part of the Warhammer franchise, regardless of Fantasy or 40K. Taking that away is, at least for me, a big "fuck you" in the face of every Warhammer fan. I used to play Chaos, Dark Elves and Khemri and not being able to play any of the races I am most interested in is a significant deterrent to buying the game. Making my most favorite faction a day 1 DLC outright kills it for me, as I am most certainly not going to pre-order a game that may very well be in an unplayable state for quite a while. And it's even worse if it is, as a few others have stated already, one of the main factions of the Warhammer universe that gets locked behind a separate paywall.
I would be fine with paying individually for different races, if it were reflected in the price of the base game. "Pay 20 bucks for the base game and add any number of playable races for amount X per race to your game" would totally work for me. But paying the price of a full game, without getting the full game, is simply not acceptable.
On November 09 2015 04:01 halfies wrote: I have been really looking forward to this game since it was announced, and hoping for it for years and years. the original Rome was such an amazing game, and they do seem to have been declining since then. i was pretty disappointed by Rome 2, like almost everyone, although i didn't experience the inital bugginess. The problem i have with the pre order 'bonus', or extra paywall, depending on how you see it, is that the quality of the game is such an unknown. If CA had a reputation for amazing launch day products, then i would buy it straight away. I can also see that CA do need to get the funding to make the game, and having read their blogs on the subject, i can see why they feel it is necessary. My solution would be a free 3 region/5 turn demo campaign. it would give people a chance to see if they think CA really have made this as in depth as they think they have, and if the game is good, people will preorder it after playing the demo. and while i dont know anything about making games, i assume it wouldn't be too hard to copy some small area from the game and use it for this. if they were really feeling apologetic and smart, they could even let you play the demo as chaos. then people who enjoyed it would pre order for sure. thoughts? is there a reason we really done see demo games anymore?
Demos take time and money to make and decrease sales of large titles since people can try them out. There is no reason for them to ever make them.
If you want a demo before release it means all the core stuff has to be in the game and working when they build the demo. Basically moving the release date to an earlier date due to all the stuff that needs to be done. Considering printing of physical releases (if people do them) it isn't a problem.
I do get that if the game sucks, we wouldn't buy it. But in this situation, where it seems like quite alot of people want to want this game, but are afraid because CA have had such bad releases, i think it could work. As long as the game is good ofcourse. Realistically, alot of people who dont trust CA will not preorder, and then out of principle wont buy because of the chaos warriors 'bonus' but they will pirate the game, to try it out. and when the pirated version comes with chaos, who is going to go back and buy a worse game. in that context, i think a demo could work, although it might be a risk. it certainly has a better chance of persuading me to buy it than no demo does
What annoys me is that they claim in their response that the dlc takes nothing away from the main game. It only adds something in form of the Chaos Invasion which otherwise would not have been possible. As far as I know the game was always advertised as:
1. Earlygame – unite your faction 2. Midgame – wage war against other factions 3. Lategame – Chaos Invasion
So their statement is either wrong or they had nothing planned for the late game which I can't imagine since Rome 2 already had the civil war.
Plus i prefer my Chaos seperated by marks / gods rather than races, but that's just me. I guess I'll wait for several patches and a cheap bundle until I buy it.
On November 09 2015 19:53 Lugh wrote: What annoys me is that they claim in their response that the dlc takes nothing away from the main game. It only adds something in form of the Chaos Invasion which otherwise would not have been possible.
If you can announce it 6 months in advance and have it ready day 1 then it is never adding something you couldn't have done otherwise. This isn't a kickstarter where they need the money before they can realize it.
Pre-order DLC and the disappearing of demo's all comes down to the same thing. Getting people to buy games they end up not wanting. Once companies where proud to put out demo's to show the world how great their game was and that we should buy their product. Now their hiding everything they can so we don't see the pile of bug ridden shit they have produced until after we give them our money.
Especially after CA burned so many people on Rome 2 should they be trying to make amends and not push even harder against their customers.
On November 09 2015 04:01 halfies wrote: I have been really looking forward to this game since it was announced, and hoping for it for years and years. the original Rome was such an amazing game, and they do seem to have been declining since then. i was pretty disappointed by Rome 2, like almost everyone, although i didn't experience the inital bugginess. The problem i have with the pre order 'bonus', or extra paywall, depending on how you see it, is that the quality of the game is such an unknown. If CA had a reputation for amazing launch day products, then i would buy it straight away. I can also see that CA do need to get the funding to make the game, and having read their blogs on the subject, i can see why they feel it is necessary. My solution would be a free 3 region/5 turn demo campaign. it would give people a chance to see if they think CA really have made this as in depth as they think they have, and if the game is good, people will preorder it after playing the demo. and while i dont know anything about making games, i assume it wouldn't be too hard to copy some small area from the game and use it for this. if they were really feeling apologetic and smart, they could even let you play the demo as chaos. then people who enjoyed it would pre order for sure. thoughts? is there a reason we really done see demo games anymore?
5 turns is not enough to see depth in a grand strategy game imo
This in house let's play is pretty good and has me more interested in the game. And the most important part is it is just someone trying to figure out the game.
EPT
