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That People don't "get" why People complain about this DLC's is really staggering.
First you can buy the game for full Price (the most expensive game i bought in a while).
Then i realise:
Chaos was done on release... They just tried to make more money and then were giving it free for a week to then charge again... WTF is this shit?
Blood/Gore was probably allready done on release... They just waited to bring it.
Bretonia is in the game, yet, we will probably be able to "unlock them" by paying for them at a later point anyway.
Seriously i get the "tons of DLC" Business model IF the Basic game is free or very cheap... But like this? Its just horrible.
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Finland916 Posts
On July 04 2016 18:35 Velr wrote:
That People don't "get" why People complain about this DLC's is really staggering.
First you can buy the game for full Price (the most expensive game i bought in a while).
Then i realise:
Chaos was done on release... They just tried to make more money and then were giving it free for a week to then charge again... WTF is this shit?
Blood/Gore was probably allready done on release... They just waited to bring it.
Bretonia is in the game, yet, we will probably be able to "unlock them" by paying for them at a later point anyway.
Seriously i get the "tons of DLC" Business model IF the Basic game is free or very cheap... But like this? Its just horrible.
Do you feel like there's not enough content in the original game for the price?
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On July 04 2016 20:49 hexhaven wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2016 18:35 Velr wrote:
That People don't "get" why People complain about this DLC's is really staggering.
First you can buy the game for full Price (the most expensive game i bought in a while).
Then i realise:
Chaos was done on release... They just tried to make more money and then were giving it free for a week to then charge again... WTF is this shit?
Blood/Gore was probably allready done on release... They just waited to bring it.
Bretonia is in the game, yet, we will probably be able to "unlock them" by paying for them at a later point anyway.
Seriously i get the "tons of DLC" Business model IF the Basic game is free or very cheap... But like this? Its just horrible. Do you feel like there's not enough content in the original game for the price?
with that simplified campaign map? i know it got simplified because of the lore restrictions, which is ok, but instead of trying to compensate by other new MAJOR features, they just left it simplified!
nope its not worth
and seriously if you have any deeper knowledge of the warhammer universe you understand how outrageous the chaos dlc is. not only that it was finished anyway, it is the second most important race in the whole warhammer universe. them not being a basic feature but a dlc u have to pay for is flat out outrageous. and dont defend them by saying "but it was free for pre order and 1 week after release". it just means that u get it for free when you buy it without a chance of waiting and until you can really judge if the game is worth your money. this dlc politcs they started at sega is just a slap in any customers face. sure if you want to support that and make sure this attitude will never change, be my guest, go buy everything.
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I am not really angry about that DLC model, it just means that i don't buy such a game on launch. I wait until it is done, then wait another year, and get the whole game with all DLC for 10$.
Meanwhile, if they didn't pull such nonsense, i might actually buy games at launch, giving them a lot more money.
This is also the reason why i stopped buying Paradox games, i just don't like this feeling that i am buying an incomplete game and that they will continue milking money from me for the next few years until it is finally done.
In the old model of game & 1-2 addons, which are a long while apart, i didn't feel like that. Just my personal feelings, nothing objective, but it leads to me not buying games. If people bitch about DLC, but still buy the game and the DLC, noone cares about that.
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On July 04 2016 18:35 Velr wrote:
That People don't "get" why People complain about this DLC's is really staggering.
First you can buy the game for full Price (the most expensive game i bought in a while).
Then i realise:
Chaos was done on release... They just tried to make more money and then were giving it free for a week to then charge again... WTF is this shit?
Blood/Gore was probably allready done on release... They just waited to bring it.
Bretonia is in the game, yet, we will probably be able to "unlock them" by paying for them at a later point anyway.
Seriously i get the "tons of DLC" Business model IF the Basic game is free or very cheap... But like this? Its just horrible.
I can totally understand that the chaos dlc makes people angry, it was the main reason why I wondered if I should buy it in the first place.
I don't really get it for the bng dlc though. It's not like total war always had blood and gore, it's not like there's anything outside of other warhammer games that suggest lots of blood and gore and honestly it's a minor graphical overhaul for 2,5€.
It without doubt is additional developing time and the game doesn't feel lacking in the least without it.
The universe is dark fantasy so that somewhat suggests it, but the game is rather tame even with bng dlc, so there's a clear judgement call from creative assembly to keep it close to the other tw titles (which is somewhat disappointing).
Honestly I had to check thrice to even notice that my models got bloody, cause I expected some real violence and didn't see it. Maybe I got the German censored version or something.
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If it wasn't because its warhammer and that means a huge deal for me, i wouldn't have bought the game at all and would had done like i did with Rome 2. Wait until a big fat sale a year or two later with plenty expansions(i don't remember when it was ;d).
And blackfeather what you are saying is that the DLC is not even worth 2.5€. Which as someone who bought it i entirely agree. There is suppossed to be events too but it really is not worth it. Just wait until a sale and get it on a pack for almost nothing.
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On July 05 2016 00:16 Godwrath wrote:
If it wasn't because its warhammer and that means a huge deal for me, i wouldn't have bought the game at all and would had done like i did with Rome 2. Wait until a big fat sale a year or two later with plenty expansions(i don't remember when it was ;d).
And blackfeather what you are saying is that the DLC is not even worth 2.5€. Which as someone who bought it i entirely agree. There is suppossed to be events too but it really is not worth it. Just wait until a sale and get it on a pack for almost nothing.
Yeah don't get me wrong, the BnG DLC isn't great, it's a minor change and I wouldn't recommend getting it.
The fact remains that it's a skin dlc for 2.5€, which is totally normal. It actually has a lot of models in it, the main reason that it's not a bigger change is that 95% of the time I'm on maximum zoom or in the tab map, they could entirely reskin every unit and I would only notice it for giant single units. I rarely zoom in to watch the battle unfold, I'm mostly busy controlling my units.
So the reason I'm not recommending it is not because the developers did a shitty job or it's overpriced, but because the dlc-type doesn't do a lot for this type of game.
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Netherlands21351 Posts
On July 05 2016 02:04 Blackfeather wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2016 00:16 Godwrath wrote:
If it wasn't because its warhammer and that means a huge deal for me, i wouldn't have bought the game at all and would had done like i did with Rome 2. Wait until a big fat sale a year or two later with plenty expansions(i don't remember when it was ;d).
And blackfeather what you are saying is that the DLC is not even worth 2.5€. Which as someone who bought it i entirely agree. There is suppossed to be events too but it really is not worth it. Just wait until a sale and get it on a pack for almost nothing. Yeah don't get me wrong, the BnG DLC isn't great, it's a minor change and I wouldn't recommend getting it. The fact remains that it's a skin dlc for 2.5€, which is totally normal. It actually has a lot of models in it, the main reason that it's not a bigger change is that 95% of the time I'm on maximum zoom or in the tab map, they could entirely reskin every unit and I would only notice it for giant single units. It could be gorier, but then we'd be talking about more custom skins for corpses (like burned corpses), blood animations (which I've seen in a vid, but can't seem to see in my version) and custom kill animations. Which isn't really what I expect of a 2.5€ dlc tbh. The only thing I'm somewhat missing is bloodied textures for the ground. So honestly I don't see how they try to rob everyone with BnG. I see it for Chaos, but not for this one, so I don't get the rage.
I would not be surprised if a lot of the BnG rage dates back to the same dlc being released for Rome 2 at a time where the game still needed a lot of work.
People saw it as a slap in the face that such pointless dlc was being released while the game was in a bad state rather then fixing the game.
Now people just get angry whenever it comes up again.
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Is there a mod that changes the "remove foliage" option to not only apply when zoomed in really close? As it is the function is not very useful since you have to be very close for it to work so it doesn’t help much with overall visibility on the map. This becomes an increasing problem when fighting big battles with multiple stacks where it is even harder to make out crumbling/low hp via the unit portrait.
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On July 05 2016 22:18 Artesimo wrote:
Is there a mod that changes the "remove foliage" option to not only apply when zoomed in really close? As it is the function is not very useful since you have to be very close for it to work so it doesn’t help much with overall visibility on the map. This becomes an increasing problem when fighting big battles with multiple stacks where it is even harder to make out crumbling/low hp via the unit portrait.
Press space in battle, then try to lock the remove foliage option to always on?
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Netherlands21351 Posts
On July 06 2016 01:45 dae wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2016 22:18 Artesimo wrote:
Is there a mod that changes the "remove foliage" option to not only apply when zoomed in really close? As it is the function is not very useful since you have to be very close for it to work so it doesn’t help much with overall visibility on the map. This becomes an increasing problem when fighting big battles with multiple stacks where it is even harder to make out crumbling/low hp via the unit portrait. Press space in battle, then try to lock the remove foliage option to always on?
That will only remove foliage from trees close by the camera. For some reason it will not remove all foliage on the map.
Thus leading to the problem described.
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On July 06 2016 02:08 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2016 01:45 dae wrote:On July 05 2016 22:18 Artesimo wrote:
Is there a mod that changes the "remove foliage" option to not only apply when zoomed in really close? As it is the function is not very useful since you have to be very close for it to work so it doesn’t help much with overall visibility on the map. This becomes an increasing problem when fighting big battles with multiple stacks where it is even harder to make out crumbling/low hp via the unit portrait. Press space in battle, then try to lock the remove foliage option to always on? That will only remove foliage from trees close by the camera. For some reason it will not remove all foliage on the map. Thus leading to the problem described.
Exactly. The function is at the moment almost as useful as the windowed mode.
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Finland916 Posts
I actually really like the base game as it is, and I think it's a rather important point. I don't mind the DLC, because I can always opt out. I didn't pre-order the game, and I would've preferred Chaos Warriors to be a kind of an early adopter bonus, where you'd pick it up for free within 2-4 weeks of release. However, early week buzz was positive enough that I got the game, and I feel that it's well worth the money. I'm pretty sure any huge problems would've surfaced almost immediately, because CA releases tend to get a lot of very vocal critics if something's amiss. I haven't played every single Total War release, but I did start with the first Shogun: Total War, and I think this is one of the best yet.
Chaos the second most important race in Warhammer? I think that rather depends if you have table top armies or not.
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Netherlands21351 Posts
On July 06 2016 05:38 hexhaven wrote:
I actually really like the base game as it is, and I think it's a rather important point. I don't mind the DLC, because I can always opt out. I didn't pre-order the game, and I would've preferred Chaos Warriors to be a kind of an early adopter bonus, where you'd pick it up for free within 2-4 weeks of release. However, early week buzz was positive enough that I got the game, and I feel that it's well worth the money. I'm pretty sure any huge problems would've surfaced almost immediately, because CA releases tend to get a lot of very vocal critics if something's amiss. I haven't played every single Total War release, but I did start with the first Shogun: Total War, and I think this is one of the best yet.
Chaos the second most important race in Warhammer? I think that rather depends if you have table top armies or not.
Story wise everything kinda revolves around chaos, the polar gateways and their incursions.
Without Chaos the story could not exist.
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On July 04 2016 18:35 Velr wrote:
That People don't "get" why People complain about this DLC's is really staggering.
First you can buy the game for full Price (the most expensive game i bought in a while).
Then i realise:
Chaos was done on release... They just tried to make more money and then were giving it free for a week to then charge again... WTF is this shit?
Blood/Gore was probably allready done on release... They just waited to bring it.
Bretonia is in the game, yet, we will probably be able to "unlock them" by paying for them at a later point anyway.
Seriously i get the "tons of DLC" Business model IF the Basic game is free or very cheap... But like this? Its just horrible.
The Chaos faction was made separate from the other 4 races; as in it was an addition to the game, and Sega would not allow CA to give it away free until they were hammered by the fans to give it free. Thus it was given free in the first week, after that it's an added pay on. The Chaos faction you play as is very different from the Chaos NPC faction; you can read all about it, and it's the actual truth. Sega gave CA a budget to work on 4 races; that's it. Thus why Chaos had to be a separate DLC.
Blood and gore was not done on release; it had to be packaged separately so that the game would not get a M rating and could be advertised to a wider audience.
Believe me, if CA/Sega wanted to monetize the living shit out of the game they easily could have in numerous ways, but they didn't. And before we go into DLC is the literal devil and bane of the gaming world, please do remember that developers actually have to get money in return for their work. Unfortunately, games have stayed literally the same price ($60 USD) for like what, about a decade or two now? Triple AAA games are expensive as fuck to make. If you work in the gaming industry you know how hard some people work, and how much time they put in. The fact that devs are getting royally fucked by the game prices isn't said aloud because entitled fucking gamers who probably haven't ever worked a day in their life would throw a massive fit, despite the fact that big budget games cost millions of dollars to make now, especially with the immense demand of the general public.
I will say this, I am totally against day 1 DLC that should have been made a part of the game like Mass Effect 3. However, I think CA has provided a reasonable explanation as to why they made the Chaos faction a DLC (they were constrained by budget) and they even gave people a week to get it for free despite the fact that it cost them and Sega extra money to make the extra campaign. Plus, the Chaos Warriors were always going to appear in the main game, the DLC was just to make them playable with an expanded roster of units, campaign, story lines, etc.
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I still buy my games and if i pay full price and if there is day1 DLC that delivers actual content, that obviously belongs into the game, i feel ripped off.
All else, no, i actually really don't care. If you do a WHF game and are even thinking to exclude Chaos, you probably shouldn't have done a WHF game form the get go. I don't care how hard someone works, i work myself. Sometimes hard, sometimes not so hard, as probably most of us do.
Imho they should have gone with:
Basegame: Empire/Chaos/Dwarfs/Orks
and then add:
VC/Undead --> Bretonia/Human Minors --> Skaven/Beastmen --> Lizardmen/Chaosgods --> Elves (all 3) --> Ogres.
I'm not the biggest WHF "nerd" but like this you could start with the most iconic factions and then flesh out/enlarge the world.
It also wouldn't be as "bad" if the game would actually feel polished, but it isn't. In the campaign agent spam and absolutely unbalanecd auto-resolve is killing the experience and the multiplayer has very obvious flaws (Lord-Sniping) and on top of it is an unbalanced mess that even the tiniest bit of actual playtesting could have shown.
Instead of polish we got a day 1 Chaos-DLC and Bretonia that even as MP only faction screams "unfinnished" at you.
It feels like they planned for much more at release and now it seems very unfinished.
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On July 06 2016 17:20 Velr wrote:
I still buy my games and if i pay full price and if there is day1 DLC that delivers actual content, that obviously belongs into the game, i feel ripped off.
All else, no, i actually really don't care. If you do a WHF game and are even thinking to exclude Chaos, you probably shouldn't have done a WHF game form the get go. I don't care how hard someone works, i work myself. Sometimes hard, sometimes not so hard, as probably most of us do.
Imho they should have gone with:
Basegame: Empire/Chaos/Dwarfs/Orks
and then add:
VC/Undead --> Bretonia/Human Minors --> Skaven/Beastmen --> Lizardmen/Chaosgods --> Elves (all 3) --> Ogres.
I'm not the biggest WHF "nerd" but like this you could start with the most iconic factions and then flesh out/enlarge the world.
It also wouldn't be as "bad" if the game would actually feel polished, but it isn't. In the campaign agent spam and absolutely unbalanecd auto-resolve is killing the experience and the multiplayer has very obvious flaws (Lord-Sniping) and on top of it is an unbalanced mess that even the tiniest bit of actual playtesting could have shown.
Instead of polish we got a day 1 Chaos-DLC and Bretonia that even as MP only faction screams "unfinnished" at you.
It feels like they planned for much more at release and now it seems very unfinished.
- Don’t autoresolve
- use Agents to guard your heroes
- MP-lord sniping concerns are valid and should be addressed
- not sure about the above told story how playable chaos faction made it into the game but if it is true it’s time to admit being wrong labelling them as day 1 DLC that was stripped from the game. I will be the first to admit: I propably was wrong in feeling a bit upset about the chaos DLC. Join me.
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Netherlands21351 Posts
I don't buy the chaos story. They would have been in the game as hordes already for the invasions. That means models, stats, the horde system ect was all already in the game.
I don't buy the 'we didn't have money for it' argument for 1 second. Yes as a player faction they work a little bit different then the AI but not by that much.
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On July 06 2016 23:02 Artesimo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2016 17:20 Velr wrote:
I still buy my games and if i pay full price and if there is day1 DLC that delivers actual content, that obviously belongs into the game, i feel ripped off.
All else, no, i actually really don't care. If you do a WHF game and are even thinking to exclude Chaos, you probably shouldn't have done a WHF game form the get go. I don't care how hard someone works, i work myself. Sometimes hard, sometimes not so hard, as probably most of us do.
Imho they should have gone with:
Basegame: Empire/Chaos/Dwarfs/Orks
and then add:
VC/Undead --> Bretonia/Human Minors --> Skaven/Beastmen --> Lizardmen/Chaosgods --> Elves (all 3) --> Ogres.
I'm not the biggest WHF "nerd" but like this you could start with the most iconic factions and then flesh out/enlarge the world.
It also wouldn't be as "bad" if the game would actually feel polished, but it isn't. In the campaign agent spam and absolutely unbalanecd auto-resolve is killing the experience and the multiplayer has very obvious flaws (Lord-Sniping) and on top of it is an unbalanced mess that even the tiniest bit of actual playtesting could have shown.
Instead of polish we got a day 1 Chaos-DLC and Bretonia that even as MP only faction screams "unfinnished" at you.
It feels like they planned for much more at release and now it seems very unfinished. - Don’t autoresolve - use Agents to guard your heroes - MP-lord sniping concerns are valid and should be addressed - not sure about the above told story how playable chaos faction made it into the game but if it is true it’s time to admit being wrong labelling them as day 1 DLC that was stripped from the game. I will be the first to admit: I propably was wrong in feeling a bit upset about the chaos DLC. Join me.
I really don't like these kinds of answers. So you arent allowed to be dissatisfied with a non-functional feature that should make the game way more enjoyable? Having to fight every shitty fight isn't really what the game is about and takes away a lot of the fun. I don't see what is so hard to see there. And yes it obviously is possible to keep agents with my armies and I would think this works great if it actually did. But still my generals die like flies to an onslaught of enemy assassins.
Why does this story change anything? "they didnt have a large enough budget". CA was never to blame here. It was obviously SEGA from the beginning, since they are the publisher and handle all of the financial stuff. So if they set the budget small and the DLC schedule to include a Chaos-DLC CA can't really do shit about it. SEGA is no smallscale publisher. They have the money to pay development until finaltouch. They just chose to do so, since they gauged it to be more profitable this way. This is just how capitalism works, and I understand how people can feel cheated.
This was an obvious moneygrab in kind of forcing people to preorder or pay even more.
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On July 06 2016 17:20 Velr wrote:
I still buy my games and if i pay full price and if there is day1 DLC that delivers actual content, that obviously belongs into the game, i feel ripped off.
All else, no, i actually really don't care. If you do a WHF game and are even thinking to exclude Chaos, you probably shouldn't have done a WHF game form the get go. I don't care how hard someone works, i work myself. Sometimes hard, sometimes not so hard, as probably most of us do.
Imho they should have gone with:
Basegame: Empire/Chaos/Dwarfs/Orks
and then add:
VC/Undead --> Bretonia/Human Minors --> Skaven/Beastmen --> Lizardmen/Chaosgods --> Elves (all 3) --> Ogres.
I'm not the biggest WHF "nerd" but like this you could start with the most iconic factions and then flesh out/enlarge the world.
It also wouldn't be as "bad" if the game would actually feel polished, but it isn't. In the campaign agent spam and absolutely unbalanecd auto-resolve is killing the experience and the multiplayer has very obvious flaws (Lord-Sniping) and on top of it is an unbalanced mess that even the tiniest bit of actual playtesting could have shown.
Instead of polish we got a day 1 Chaos-DLC and Bretonia that even as MP only faction screams "unfinnished" at you.
It feels like they planned for much more at release and now it seems very unfinished.
A. This is by far the most polished Total War game since like, forever.
B. Agent spam is a problem with their AI since Rome Total War I. It's been like that for ages, something they should have fixed quite awhile ago. CA has come along way though.
C. The game is a trilogy if you've actually followed the development of the game, and the Chaos faction was never meant to actually be in the first game; they were actually supposed to be pushed into the 2nd or 3rd expansion however CA wanted to include them in the first. In order to do so they had to add the playable version as a paid DLC. What, you'd rather not have the Chaos faction right now and only four? Ok. Also the Chaos faction you see are the Chaos Chosen Warriors, who are a very different faction from the Chaos Demons.
D. Considering the amount of work they put into every faction and every hero along with the separate tech trees and faction mechanics, along with the balancing of units etc. it is no surprise that the Bretonia faction is not finished. Game is suppose to be trilogy split up. The Warhammer lore and factions that are within it are very detailed and vast, it would be impossible to fit them all into one game in a well done fashion.
On July 06 2016 23:06 Gorsameth wrote:
I don't buy the chaos story. They would have been in the game as hordes already for the invasions. That means models, stats, the horde system ect was all already in the game.
I don't buy the 'we didn't have money for it' argument for 1 second. Yes as a player faction they work a little bit different then the AI but not by that much.
The player faction works vastly different from the Chaos AI faction. You could also not have the Chaos faction in the first game and only have four, instead you have five now because it was a pre-order/DLC. Welcome to the world of game development. It costs millions of dollars to make shit, and games still only cost 60 dollars. Your publisher gives you literally a strict budget, and if you go outside of it you have to make up the cost somewhere. And you don't believe it? All along CA has strictly stated during the development of the game that there would be four factions, and that they would expand through multiple expansions/separate games. Like literally all the way up until like late 2015 when they were already well over halfway through the development of the game did they decide they wanted to add the Chaos Chosen Warriors into the first game. If you're going to add them that late into the development, you have to come up with the cost somewhere.
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