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Crowfall

Forum Index > General Games
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zere
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Germany1287 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-19 17:58:32
January 29 2015 23:45 GMT
#1
"Where did we go wrong?
There was a time when our industry took CHANCES.
Our games didn't have to appeal to everyone, and we didn't judge ourselves solely on mass market success.
With amusement park games, it's impossible to lose. With sandbox games, it's impossible to win.
If you can't win and you can't lose, then
what's the point of playing?
I don't want to kill more rats, fill another experience point bar or collect another meaningless badge.
I want to play a GAME, against PLAYERS, where my actions, my decisions and my SKILL will determine if i win or lose.
Allies. Enemies. Alliances. Betrayal. Risk. Conquest. To compete with THOUSANDS of other players for a chance to claim the THRONE.
Even if I lose, the experience won't feel hollow. I don't want another worthless trophy.
I WANT TO PLAY TO CRUSH."


[image loading]


FAQ Archetypes Forums




No Tab-targeting. Player collision. No PvE raids. No PvE "big loot". PvP driven world. Player-driven economy. Full player loot. Item decay on death. Fealty system. One guy who may sit the throne.

The producers explicitly claim that this is not a WoW-killer. This is not an EVE-killer. This game will not be for everyone. On February 24th, ArtCraft Entertainment (J Todd Coleman, Gordon Walton, Raph Koster, ...) will most likely drop a big bomb onto the MMO world.

So far, every Tuesday and Thursaday ACE has been dropping some info:

Pre-announcement hints:
Jan 13: City Siege Concept
Jan 13: Character Creation Preview
Jan 15: Templars Champions, and a cryptic tree?
Jan 20: Character Creation Preview: Runes Runes Runes
Jan 22: The Crowfall Universe, Economy/Crafting & Raph Koster!
Jan 27: Introducing The Legionnaire & FAQ!
Jan 29: Forgemaster, World Rulesets & Resources
Feb 2: Hunger Week...It's about time!
Feb 3: Hunger Week Day 2 - Hunger Week Rages On!
Feb 4: Update from the founders
Feb 4: Hunger Week Day 3 - Zombiewood
Feb 5: Hunger Week Day 4 - Assassin vs. Gryphon
Feb 6: Hunger Week day 5 - Hunger Week Concludes
Feb 10: The Knight Comes... With Music?
Feb 12: The Confessor, God History & Pricing FAQ
Feb 17: Voxel Farm & Elken Stalkers
Feb 19: Physics + Double Archetype Drop
Next expected update: Tuesday, February 24th


+ Show Spoiler [Pricing FAQ] +


1. What is the pricing model for Crowfall?

Crowfall is a “buy once, play forever” game. That means that you buy the game once (estimated retail price of USD $50.) and you can play for the life of the game, without ever paying us again!

We also offer an optional VIP membership, details of which are provided below.


2. Can I spend real world currency buy in-game items or currency?

No. The only things that you can buy from ArtCraft:

- VIP membership tickets

- Cosmetic items that do not affect gameplay

- Account level services (such as increasing your number of character slots, or the size and population caps of your personal kingdom).


3. What do I get for buying the game?

You get a digital copy of the game and one active game account, which you can use to connect to the live game service.

Each game account allows for three characters, and one “passive training” slot that you can use to train one of your characters – even when you are offline.


4. Are there any restrictions on those character slots?

Nope. You have access to all the archetypes. You get the same number of character creation points to use to customize your characters. You draw from the same list of advantages, disadvantages, promotion classes and disciplines to advance your character. Your skill list is the same. Your character advances at the same rate.

Our goal is to make the VIP membership entirely optional.


5. What do I get for a VIP membership?

VIP members allows a few additional benefits:

“Behind the scenes” access to the development of the game
VIP members can use passive training for all 3 character slots (not just 1)
Priority access to all game servers
VIP frame / badge on the forums
Discount pricing on any purchases
Other cool (non-balance affecting) benefits as we think of them!


6. How much will VIP membership cost?

The price is currently TBD, but we’re expecting it to be around $15 a month.


7. Can I buy resources (stone, iron, wood) from ACE?

No. Once the only way to get resources will be to either earn them by participating in Campaigns, or by trading with other players.


8. Can items and resources be traded between players?

Yes. This the foundation of a player-driven economy.


9. Can I trade VIP membership tickets to other players?

Yes. This means that people who purchase the game, but don’t want to pay a monthly subscription, can still become VIP members by providing goods and services to other players.


10. Does this apply to the game world-wide? or just North America?

These answers are for North America only. Other territories will have likely different pricing methods. Details related to other markets will be released at a later time.




Raph Koster intro





Ingame Pre-alpha footage

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Character Creation

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Fealty System

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Economy + Crafting Concepts

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Game World Concepts

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ModeratorWenn ich einmal traurig bin, dann trink' ich einen Korn. Wenn ich dann noch traurig bin, dann trink' ich noch 'nen Korn. Und wenn ich dann noch traurig bin, dann fang' ich an von vorn!
Latham
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
9571 Posts
January 30 2015 00:27 GMT
#2
I'll admit this looks interesting. Hopefully the PvP will be fluid and fun, which seems t be the main appeal of this game but it's hard to judge just from a few screenshots. We need some video footage I'll be coming back to this thread to see if there are any updates ^^
For the curse of life is the curse of want. PC = https://be.pcpartpicker.com/user/LathamTK/builds/#view=CrqmP6
Tephus
Profile Joined May 2011
Cascadia1754 Posts
January 30 2015 00:29 GMT
#3
All the side systems are secondary to whether or not the combat is solid. Once that is achieved, I think everything else is gravy.

I'll definitely be following this.
AdministratorTeam Liquid VP of Esports
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32746 Posts
January 30 2015 00:34 GMT
#4
Look pretty interesting I will admit. If I'm reading correctly it's a MMORPG with territorial conflict which should keep things changing if it's balanced.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
January 30 2015 00:39 GMT
#5
OMG this looks like the dream MMO!

Skilledblob
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany3392 Posts
January 30 2015 00:50 GMT
#6
well I wish them the best but they might be too late if Camelot Unchained turns out good.
Crusnik
Profile Joined December 2010
United States5378 Posts
January 30 2015 00:50 GMT
#7
Might be interesting, know if it'll be F2P or what?
Steam: rook492
GTPGlitch
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
5061 Posts
January 30 2015 00:52 GMT
#8
looks a lot like torchlight
Jo Byung Se #1 fan | CJ_Rush(reborn) fan | Liquid'Jinro(ret) fan | Liquid'Taeja fan | oGsTheSuperNada fan | Iris[gm](ret) fan |
Spaylz
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Japan1743 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-30 01:14:04
January 30 2015 00:56 GMT
#9
This looks very interesting.

Sadly, out of principle, I can't let myself be hyped. I was hyped for ArcheAge, and I see how that turned out. By default, I will assume that if this game is going to be F2P, then it will likely disappoint me.

I will keep an eye on this though.
I like words.
Cedstick
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada3336 Posts
January 30 2015 01:14 GMT
#10
Thanks for the post, zere. Been jonesing for a game like this for literally over a decade.
"What does Rivington do when he's not commentating?" "Drool." ~ Categorist
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18856 Posts
January 30 2015 01:18 GMT
#11
Interesting. I like the style, let's hope it has substance.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
boon2537
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States905 Posts
January 30 2015 03:54 GMT
#12
Looks pretty good, this might be the first MMO I'll play seriously.
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10700 Posts
January 30 2015 04:46 GMT
#13
Awesome looks interesting for sure
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
loginn
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
France815 Posts
January 31 2015 11:24 GMT
#14
Now this is the kind of rpg i want to play.
Stephano, Taking skill to the bank since IPL3. Also Lucifron and FBH
zere
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Germany1287 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-31 14:04:25
January 31 2015 14:04 GMT
#15
On January 30 2015 09:50 Crusnik wrote:
Might be interesting, know if it'll be F2P or what?


No info on that one yet, but somehow I get the feeling that this won't be F2P.
ModeratorWenn ich einmal traurig bin, dann trink' ich einen Korn. Wenn ich dann noch traurig bin, dann trink' ich noch 'nen Korn. Und wenn ich dann noch traurig bin, dann fang' ich an von vorn!
zere
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Germany1287 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-02 22:51:46
February 02 2015 22:50 GMT
#16
Feb 2nd update:


OK, folks.

Welcome to Hunger Week!

Until now, we’ve been describing the game in general terms. The real differences between Crowfall and other MMORPGs have been “creeping around the edges” of our weekly updates.

Today is the turning point – where we start to separate away from the herd. Unfortunately (but inevitably) that means we’re going to turn some people off today. But hopefully those of you who stick around will be here for the long haul.

About a decade ago, I was the creative director on a game called “Shadowbane.” Shadowbane had a lot of flaws, but the vision is still something that I am very proud of. The Wolfpack founders (of which I am one) came up with something innovative – really innovative. It’s surprising how rare that is, even in the game space.

Unfortunately, the vision was also flawed. SB had tons of technical and operational issues, yes, but that’s not what I am talking about. I’m talking about the crack in the foundation of the design:

At its heart, SB was a strategy game. And strategy games can’t last forever.

To illustrate this point, let me use an analogy. Every Thanksgiving, my family gets together for a game of RISK. Only it’s not “let’s play Risk every thanksgiving” – it’s “let’s pick up from where we left last year, in the SAME game of Risk.”

The same game. The same conflict. Year after year after year:

Imagine that, in year 2, Uncle Bob starts winning.

In year 3, Uncle Bob presses the advantage. By the end of this game session, Bob basically owns the board.

Fast forward 10 years. We’re still playing that same game. Uncle Bob is now an unassailable tyrant.

The other players (i.e. everyone other than Uncle Bob) all wander away from the board to watch football or something – because they know they don’t stand a chance. If a new player joins the game, Bob snuffs them out in their infancy, and they quit immediately.

Everyone is bored. Even Uncle Bob is bored – because he hasn’t faced a challenge in over a decade. But he won’t give up by choice. That isn’t human nature.

In Shadowbane, I called this phenomenon server stagnation. The game is incredibly fun – right up until someone wins. Then, without a server reset, the game stagnates and everyone quits.

TL;DR version
One of the key elements of strategy games is they have a win condition followed by a board reset. You start the game, you play the game, someone wins. You reset the board and start a new game.

One of the key elements of MMOs is that they are persistent. Actually, that’s not the right word, is it? They’re permanent. Players expect to play them over years, and the game world is (generally) static.

These two design goals seem diametrically opposed: the game must reset and the game must last forever.
Can they be married together? I think they can.

Eternal Heroes, Dying Worlds
What if characters are persistent/permanent – but the Worlds are not?

What if your character exists outside of any given Campaign, and can join new matches once a match is over?

This opens up a whole new world of design possibilities.

  • Characters are permanent, and advance over the course of many Campaigns. This gives you the feeling of persistence that we’ve come to expect from MMOs.
  • Campaigns, though, aren’t permanent. They still be “persistent” between game sessions – but they don’t last forever.
  • How long should the last? As long as the game is still fun! And they don’t all have to be the same duration. Some Campaigns could last 1 week, or 1 month. or 6 months. or 1 year.
  • These Campaigns aren’t just “instances”, though -- they are fully populated, continent-sized, seamless zone MMO servers. The only thing they have in common with an “instance” is that they are time-limited.
  • Because each Campaign is marching towards an end condition, this means that the World doesn’t have to be static anymore. We can break the Campaign into different “phases”, and adjust the rules of the game change during each phase. We can allow the players to fundamentally change the world, without fear of the long term problems this might create.
  • Why not make each Campaign unique? Why can’t each one have a completely unique world map (mountains, forests, lakes, castles, villages, quarries, mines, mills – you name it)? The “exploration” phase of the game can be different in each Campaign. The world will never be stale.
  • To that point: since each game is a stand-alone event, we can even change the rules (and win conditions) of each Campaign. We can experiment with different rules, to see which ones are more popular – and keep the game continually fresh.


So, how do you explain this?

The Hunger. The Hunger is a mysterious, destructive force that spreads from one world to the next, like an infection – twisting and corrupting everything it touches. Eventually, the Hunger consumes the World itself, and it is destroyed.

Players take the roles of Divine Champions, immortal participants in the War of the Gods. They join the Campaigns to scavenge the Dying Worlds for relics, resources and glory.

A Campaign might look like this:

Phase 1 is Spring. The Campaign map is hidden by fog of war. You are dropped (typically naked) into an unknown, deadly environment. This world is filled with the ruins of ancient castles, abandoned mines and haunted villages – which you have to explore to scavenge for weapons, tools and the resources to start building fortifications.

Phase 2 is Summer. The Hunger starts to infect the creatures. Resources become scarce. Your team claims an abandoned quarry and must fight to keep it. You use the stone to build an ancient keep, to use it as staging areas to attack their neighbors.

Phase 3 is Fall. The creatures become more deadly as the Hunger takes hold. Resources are heavily contested and transporting them is fraught with peril. Your guild frantically builds a wall around your city, as the nature of conflict shifts from smaller skirmishes to siege warfare.

Phase 4 is Winter. The environment is brutal. Warmth is hard to come by. Your kingdoms grows in strength; your neighbors falter and you demand that they swear fealty or face complete loss of the Campaign. Instead, a handful of smaller kingdoms choose to band together against you.

Phase 5 is Victory and Defeat. The World is destroyed in a cataclysmic event as the Campaign comes to an end. Your Kingdom emerges victorious, and you return to the Eternal Kingdoms to enjoy the spoils of war. Your adversaries head home, too -- to lick their wounds.

[image loading]

No one quits. Instead, both groups strategize on how to dominate the next Campaign.

This is the experience we are trying to create. Even if I lose, it won’t feel hollow.

We saw a similar pattern emerge during the SB beta… by accident, not design. Occasionally, changes to the game design would require us to wipe the world. Every time it happened, I was worried that players would quit the game. Instead, we saw incredibly high peak concurrency numbers after each wipe. Every time. The “land rush” to grab the key positions in the new world was incredibly alluring. If the world map was unique, I expect it would have been even more popular.

The downside of this approach is that we don’t want the universe to feel too transitory. That’s why we added the Eternal Kingdoms: super-sized player and guild housing Worlds. Trophy rooms that you can use as a “lobby” between matches/campaigns.

(To make sure these Worlds don’t compete with the “main” game, i.e. the Campaign Worlds, we’ve completely stripped them of resource factories and anything but common reagents. If you want to fill your trophy room, you have to go out and earn it.)

This is the foundational change that we’ve made. Crowfall isn’t an MMO with a “battle ground” strapped to the end of the level treadmill. Crowfall isn’t a three-way tug of war that never resets. It’s a real blend of a strategy game and an MMO.

There’s more (a LOT more) to come, but it all starts with this basic idea:

Eternal Heroes, Dying Worlds.


So, when I was reading this, I was very sceptical. When I finished reading, and started to think about it, it made much more sense, and I think this might turn out to be a very good principle. There are still a lot of open questions there for speculation, but I think these guys are onto something here.
ModeratorWenn ich einmal traurig bin, dann trink' ich einen Korn. Wenn ich dann noch traurig bin, dann trink' ich noch 'nen Korn. Und wenn ich dann noch traurig bin, dann fang' ich an von vorn!
Skilledblob
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany3392 Posts
February 03 2015 00:13 GMT
#17
yea sounds very interesting and I think if done properly this could be a very nice way of forming communities, rivalries and a long lasting game.

Path of Exile does something similar with its challenge leagues. PoE is at its core a dungeon grinder like Diablo but with the challenge leagues that introduce new hazards and a completely new economy every few months it keeps the game interesting for people.
Tephus
Profile Joined May 2011
Cascadia1754 Posts
February 03 2015 00:24 GMT
#18
Interesting. MMO's are always most popular at release (or release of expansion) as there is that new charge towards something clear, and all the exploration. But then as they add content, old content is stuck in a weird spot of not really having any purpose.

If they can gradually ease between what were given in the example as seasons I'd be quite impressed, if not you will definitely see spikes of players when a new season lands, and the gradual decline as people get bored of the stagnation.

AdministratorTeam Liquid VP of Esports
Victolol
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany46 Posts
February 03 2015 00:34 GMT
#19
This sounds incredibly promising design wise.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14104 Posts
February 03 2015 02:35 GMT
#20
I'm getting a ton of flashbacks to the real old old school mmo's like tribal wars. I'd rather wait to see the carry over between worlds but this is getting me ultra hype.

ATEN now ATEN tomarrow ATEN forever.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
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