Grey Goo - new RTS from original C&C devs - Page 47

Hey Grey Gooers,
It’s crazy to think that it has already been five weeks since Grey Goo was released on Steam. Since then, balance has been a hotly debated topic for the community and the design department felt it was necessary to update you guys and gals on what we think about the current state of things. We largely feel that the balance of Grey Goo is successful for the initial release of a brand new IP. However, we are keenly aware of specific instances where gameplay is situationally providing advantages for one faction over the others.
We’ve read through volumes of your feedback, played extensively on the matchmaking ladder ourselves and have been keeping a running list of priority items that have been brought to our attention. To make this information easier to parse, we’ve broken down the major balance topics into three separate posts. These posts will only cover the main balance changes and not every single change in the upcoming patch. Before we get started, please remember that Design is still playtesting and experimenting internally with all of the topics listed below, so anything is subject to change. That being said, we encourage you to reply to this thread only and give feedback on these topics.
Let’s jump in.
Table of Contents
Balance Adjustments Part 1 - Bases and Defense
Balance Adjustments Part 2 - Early Game Combat
Balance Adjustments Part 3 - Mid and Late Game Combat
“Human Sentinels are a little too easy to build in vast quantities and are quick to teleport.”
Human Sentinels are the premier static defense system in Grey Goo; they are versatile and provide awesome area denial. Unfortunately, even though they have a drain cost of 10, the player can still build an endless number of them if he/she has the Catalyst to do so. They are also quick to reposition using the structure teleport and so they can potentially have a high return on investment with the damage/utility they bring. We believe that limiting the number of Sentinels you can have at one time and increasing the amount of time it takes to relocate them will reel these back into filling more of that static role. We are experimenting with adding Sentinels to the population and increasing the time to teleport.
• Human Sentinels now have a population of 1 • Human Sentinels now take 10 seconds to teleport up from 5
“Human and Beta walls are difficult to counter early on into the game and affect the pace of the rest of the match. They have been used to block resource gathering and to wall enemies in. “
We are currently evaluating methods of reducing wall effectiveness and feasibility as an offensive option in the early game. Adjustments to cost, build time, health, and armor have all been tested internally with promising results. The goal here is to push the walls into the mid and late game as their drain rates will need to be supported by higher amounts of income. Therefore, it will be harder to both build walls and build units on lower numbers of Refineries. However, we do not want to push walls into a place where they are never useful as a defensive tactic in favor of building units; we would like those options to still be competitive with each other. Additionally, walls are the primary way of defending against a rush as the Beta, so any adjustments will have to be tempered by that fact.
Human
• Human wall armor down from 6 to 0
• Human wall build time up from 30 to 40
• Human wall pillar cost up from 30 to 80
• Human wall pillar health down from 1000 to 750
• Human wall straight cost up from 30 to 120
• Human wall regeneration up from 15/sec to 25/sec
Beta
• Beta wall armor down from 3 to 0
• Beta wall build time up from 25 to 30
• Beta wall pillar cost up from 50 to 120
• Beta wall pillar health down from 1250 to 1000
• Beta wall straight cost up from 50 to 90
“The Long-Range Ballistics Upgrade is being used in tandem with walls to abuse enemy players.”
The Guardian Long-Range Ballistics Upgrade probably provides too much damage from that range. Coupled with the effectiveness of walls, this can be difficult to deal with. We are experimenting with reducing both the range and the damage to more reasonable levels, but it will be balanced together with any wall changes.
• Long-Range Ballistics Upgrade range down from 1200 to 900
• Long-Range Ballistics Upgrade damage down from 35 to 25
“The Mother Goo is too effective as an offensive unit against an enemy base in the early game.”
The Mother Goo has enough armor penetration to negate the armor of all targets in the game, on par with a siege unit. Because of this, the Mother is a go-to choice for sieging the enemy base with early in the game. Reductions in armor penetration have been effective, increasing the time to kill structures with armor to minutes instead of seconds. However, the Mother Goo still needs to have the ability to defend itself against units with its consumption ability. Because of the armor system, there is no way to reduce effectiveness against structures without also reducing the effectiveness against armored units as well, so this change will be monitored. We feel like we’re heading in the right direction though, as the Large Protean should be the Goo player’s first choice for a siege unit.
• Mother Goo armor penetration down from 10 to 0
“Proteans are too effective at blocking factory rollout zones for Beta and Human.”
Small Proteans are the primary defense that a Goo player has against direct early game harassment and they must be able to take on a reasonably sized early rush against them. However, they are also very effective when sitting in front of factory rollout zones. We’ve been experimenting with reductions in the Large and Small Proteans’ slow mechanic to allow enemies to escape more effectively from their damage. The Mother Goo will retain her 90% slow for defense.
• Small and Large Proteans now slow enemies by 50% down from 90%
“The Goo faction is likely too effective at stealth detection in general.”
Both the Mother Goo and the Small Protean have innate stealth detection. The Mother Goo has great vision and the Small Protean is fast. Used together, you can cover most of the map in effective stealth detection. The combat stealth detection utility of the Small Protean is something that needs to be maintained, so reducing the Mother Goo’s stealth detection radius is the likely option.
• Mother Goo stealth detection range down from 800 to 400
Tomorrow, we will continue this discussion with Part 2: Early Game Combat. See you then!
-GG from the Dev Team

Hello again!
Welcome back to the on-going Balance Adjustments discussion! Today we'll be diving into topics that coincide with events that can happen early on in the game and affect the rest of the match.
Table of Contents
Balance Adjustments Part 1 - Bases and Defense
Balance Adjustments Part 2 - Early Game Combat
Balance Adjustments Part 3 - Mid and Late Game Combat
“Tridents are easy to build and are really effective for their cost.”
Tridents have the same build time as Commandos but have more health. They are very easy to build and rush with en masse and a Beta and Goo player can feel overwhelmed quite easily. We like how the Tridents currently preform in combat, therefore we are looking into increasing their build time and cost to shift them away from their current dominance. “Quantity has a quality all its own.”
•Trident build time up from 20 to 25
•Trident cost up from 100 to 125
"It is difficult to defend against early aggression as a Goo player."
Goo players' main defense in the early game is to relocate or stand and fight with a Small Protean. Tridents were contributing to the feeling of being overwhelmed early on, but we felt that it wasn't enough of a change to help the Goo in all matchups. We've decided to shift Mother Goo health and HPS values around to give them more defensive value when taking shots from an early game scout and, later on in the game, they will have more time to soak damage before losing a split size. This change may not go far enough so we'll keep an eye on it. Because the early game Goo rush is less of a concern now with the reduction in armor penetration, an increase in movement speed or another defensive stat may be warranted after testing.
•Mother Goo max health has increased from 1300 to 1400
•Mother Goo health per size has increased from 200 to 280
•Mother Goo catalyst disgestion health per second up from 5 to 7
•Mother Goo first size max health down from 500 to 280
•Initial Mother Goo starting health down from 300 to 140
•Catalyst Vents (Spigots) now grant 119 health per pickup to the Mother Goo up from 85
“Proteans can engage and then split into units before they die. This makes them feel unfair to engage against because players feel like they’re fighting 2:1.”
This is actually intended gameplay for the Goo faction. The Goo has the choice to both split their units and let them regen to full health prior to engagement, or send the Protean in to engage and then split before it dies into damaged formed units. Goo units made from a Protean are probably a bit too hard to kill at their current split health percentages, at least in tandem with their innate regeneration mechanic. Because units do full damage regardless of their current health, it is currently too difficult as a defending player to remove offensive DPS from a splitting Goo player in combat. Testing has been conducted on altering the regen mechanic.
• The formed Goo regeneration effect now only activates when units are not actively taking or dealing damage.
• Small Protean health up from 150 to 160
“Artillery damage is devastating.”
We have identified that the basic artillery units for each faction (Crescent, Hailstorm, and Howitzer) are too effective, both during the engagement while armies are moving toward each other and while damage is sustained on a stationary force. They are generally seen as “must have” units for a ground army to be effective. Because of this, we are looking into reductions to projectile speeds to make them easier to dodge, and to damage and area effect radii to reduce the overall damage per second to a stationary group of enemies. We are also looking into reductions for the ranges of the Goo Crescent a to counter the benefit of being able to fire from steep terrain types. The mines laid by the Howitzer are also being adjusted to remain for a shorter amount of time to facilitate engagements against a Human ground force.
Beta
•Hailstorm damage down from 25 to 20
•Hailstorm range up from 750 to 800
•Hailstorm armor penetration down from 3 to 0
•Hailstorm projectile speed down from 500 to 350
•Hailstorm AoE radius down from 150 to 125
•Guardian range down from 650 to 550
Goo
•Crescent damage down from 10 to 6
•Crescent AoE radius down from 200 to 150
•Crescent range down from 1500 to 1000
•Crescent projectile speed up from 150 to 200
•Projectile Endurance Upgrade AoE radius down from 100 to 75
•Projectile Endurance damage down from 5 to 2
•Projectile Endurance range down from 1500 to 1000
Human
•Howitzer damage down from 30 to 23
•Howitzer range up from 800 to 900
•Howitzer armor penetration down from 3 to 0
•Howitzer projectile speed down from 500 to 350
•Howitzer AoE radius down from 150 to 100
•Howitzer mine (default) no longer has stealth
•Howitzer mine duration down from 12 to 3 sec
•Howitzer Proximity Mine Radar Upgrade mine duration down from 18 to 9 sec
“It’s difficult to engage against Gladii.”
Gladii are a tad too easy to kite with. Their strength should be their ability to move and fire and their speed makes this a little too effective. Reducing the movement speed should help narrow the gap.
•Gladius speed down from 95 to 90
6.“A lot of general multiplayer balance concerns seem to stem from the current map pool.”
Competitive players want maps that are fair for all sides and ones that may provide a small faction advantage for variety. There are maps that are far too asymmetrical for competitive play and the pace and gameplay differs wildly from map to map. We appreciate that players are experimenting with the Map Editor and would love to hear feedback in regards to more competitive map terrain layout and resource placement.
Tomorrow, we will continue this discussion with Part 3 - Mid and Late Game Combat. See you then!
-GG from the Dev Team

Greetings!
Welcome to the third installment of the first Balance Adjustments discussion! Today, we're going to be finishing things off with situations that are most likely to occur in the middle and late stages of a match.
Table of Contents
Balance Adjustments Part 1 - Bases and Defense
Balance Adjustments Part 2 - Early Game Combat
Balance Adjustments Part 3 - Mid and Late Game Combat
“Destructors outmatch their Human and Beta tank counterparts.”
Destructors are more expensive to build than both Predators and Gladii. They do not have move while fire functionality like their Beta and Human tank counterparts, but a combination of their range, movement speed and rate of fire make this fact almost negligible. We have been experimenting with potential changes to this unit to make it more challenging to shoot on the move.
• Destructor movement speed down from 120 to 105
“The Destructor Goo Splash Upgrade is too effective against groups of units.”
Currently, the same damage is applied to all targets in an AoE and the Destructor has an armor penetration of 6, making it even more effective than artillery units, as it can eat all the way through siege unit level armor. We’ve split the splash damage away from the primary damage so that this upgrade can be more finely tuned. The primary damage will likely remain the same, but the splash damage will need to be lowered. The armor penetration will likely stay untouched. We want this upgrade to be more competitive with the Contagious Goo Upgrade.
• Goo Splash Upgrade has been redesigned: Target damage and splash damage have been separated, splash damage down from 42 to 15 but target damage remains the same.
“The Teleporter is too easy to ambush with and is hard to counter.”
We are adding a telegraph to the Teleporter. An audio queue will play for all enemies when it’s activated, letting them know something is happening, followed by a pre-warp-in visual effect in the teleport area. This should help lessen the effectiveness of a Teleporter used to ambush an army or an enemy base.
• Teleporter now has a visible 5 second charge up telegraph and an audio queue before activation
“Lancers are very effective against units, when they should be primarily used against structures.”
Lancers are intended to be siege weapons but they can effectively zap their way through groups of enemy units. Default Lancers have too much burst damage because they don’t ramp up gradually enough to their max DPS. Increasing the ramp up time between stages and widening the DPS values for each stage should alleviate this.
• Lancer level one DPS down from 50 to 10
• Lancer level two DPS down from 60 to 40
• Lancer damage levels one and two now last 3 seconds up from 2
“Aircraft and Anti-Air combat happens so quickly that players don’t have time to react.”
Aircraft and anti-air have a cruel relationship; they often exchange blows too quickly for a player to react and this can cause confusion and frustration on both sides. Lowering the DPS of aircraft, slowing the rate of fire but increasing the total ammo and damage will help slow down the combat. AA will have more time-on-target so lowered DPS is also necessary. This is a large game system so balancing this relationship will need to be measured and tested thoroughly.
Beta
• Cloudburst damage down from 10 to 5
• Stratus health down from 100 to 75
• Warbird rate of fire up from 0.5 to 1
• Warbird ammo up from 4 to 5
• Warbird cost up from 270 to 315
• Warbird armor penetration down from 6 to 0
• Nimbus ammo up from 2 to 3
• Nimbus damage down from 75 to 50
• Nimbus Napalm now lasts 5 seconds down from 5.5
• Nimbus Napalm AoE radius down from 250 to 200
• Hanger now rearms aircraft 1 ammo every sec up from 1 ammo every 2 sec
Goo
• Tempest damage down from 25 to 15
Human
• Longbow speed down from 130 to 110
• Longbow damage down from 7 to 4
• Scimitar damage down from 125 to 30
• Scimitar ammo up from 1 to 4
• Scimitar rate of fire up from 1 to 1.5
• Scimitar health up from 85 to 115
• Scimitar cost up from 300 to 350
• Monitor health down from 75 to 60
• Scythe speed down from 400 to 375
• Scythe cost up from 520 to 585
• Scythe armor penetration down from 6 to 0
• Scythe AoE radius down from 75 to 50
• Scythe damage up from 13 to 20
• Scythe rate of fire up from 0.5 to 1.5
• Aircraft Repair Upgrade now repairs 8% every sec up from 5% every sec
• Air Pad now rearms aircraft 1 ammo every sec up from 1 ammo every 2 sec
• Anti-Air Sentinel damage down from 8 to 4
-GG from the Dev Team