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United Kingdom20326 Posts
Optimizations
• AI processing is now distributed among multiple cores to improve performance in scenarios where there are multiple AI. This change invalidates prior save files
• Forward renderer implemented making a 25% reduction in draw calls when Advanced Renderer is disabled
• Shadow and water shader LODs implemented, reducing draw calls another 25% when shader detail is set to low
• Moved the regeneration of navigation meshes to a background thread to avoid stalling the game logic thread in certain situations
Well, i'm somewhat impressed, that should make a dent. All of those are EXTREMELY important and those are huge draw call reductions. Having only 50-65% as many draw calls as well as change #1 and #4 could easily make the game feel like it has 2x as much performance, but i'l have to play and see
tl;dr disable Advanced Renderer and set Shader Detail to low if you care about performance. No matter what system you have.
Some guy said the menu didn't stutter any more, it still stutters like crazy, easily visible on 60hz screen. While averaging 115fps, 15% of frames slower than 60fps in my benchmark. It might be way less obvious than before if you're on 60hz, but it's still really messed up
ok got some data, played a 1v1 vs ai
FPS overall through 20 minutes:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VeHa0Gi.png)
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FPS at start of game:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OTRor5g.png)
^Even though the general trend seems to be at ~170fps, there are a lot of faster and much slower frames. Dragging the camera is laggy right from the start of 1v1 vs AI on the best systems available
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FPS later in the game with supply cap for me, hardly any supply for him:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uPLQAXA.png)
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Overall:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iN0KkID.png)
Tried to take some screenshots but failed and no replays >__>
Haswell i7 @4.5ghz, dual channel 2200c9 RAM. Max load on single gtx980 @1080p was about 25-30%.
I'm guessing several things:
1; animation tied to tick rate of the game
2; tick rate approx (probably exactly) 20hz (starcraft 2's is 16hz, about 22hz on Faster game speed)
3; ticks take longer for CPU in this game engine than in SC2. The huge delays on the "there was just a game tick" frames are much worse and the whole game response (such as if you're dragging the camera somewhere) will completely stop for the ~25ms that the tick is being processed for.
Due to this problem, you're basically playing the whole game with your input being handled at 40fps. It's weird and bad on 60hz, but a complete deal breaker if you want to play at higher than 40fps. That actually gets worse with more units, ticks take longer.
Usually RTS games will have a tick rate and that delay before handling your input, but you will be able to visually give the commands and do stuff like drag the camera unhindered. In starcraft 2, and much worse in grey goo, you can't do that. Since my #1 priority in an RTS/FPS game is clean input and gameplay (i really don't care what it looks like) this is literally just game breaking for me and i probably won't play, i doubt they will fix it.
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You certainly know your shit Cyro O_O
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This post is awesome Cyro. It would probably be good for devs and community if you also posted this on their official forums. Then players can push them to do something about it.
How would this affect a lower ranged PC? Would this lag be felt even more?
Also did you try this with everything at highest or did you turn off those new options they added?
Edit: it seems my fake birthday has activated lol
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
I turned down those options, but i left a couple of things max.
I can't really say without testing, but in starcraft 2's case, the constant microstutter is not really felt as much on weak systems. They perform kinda badly all of the time - but as you get to far far stronger systems, the performance improves a lot in some ways, but it's still oddly laggy/stuttery in an unexpected way.
happy fake birthday 
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This post is awesome Cyro. It would probably be good for devs and community if you also posted this on their official forums. Then players can push them to do something about it.
seconded.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
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I would say do it, I don't know how active the devs are on reddit.
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They do read and regularly post on GG reddit.
Also 2nd part of balance patch notes are out. They decided to kill Crescents with it 
Also changes to Mother Goo are kind of confusing. And overall they nerfed small proteans at start of game making stopping early game rushes even harder. Also small protean harass was nerfed hard while mother goo rushes killed (which is OK but not in combination with small protean nerfs)
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
They're destroying artillery. Not only reducing the effective area of the shot by a factor of 2.25x, but also reducing damage, range, projectile speed etc. They'll flat out do like 1/3'rd of the damage that they do now if those changes go live o.0
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I know they are but they reduced Crescents range too much. Unlike other artillery it also has super slow projectiles and they can be shot down.
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I can't say I'm really too fond of these changes as a whole. They seem somewhat simplistic and it doesn't seem like they gave too much thought to how everything interacts with everything else.
Yeah, this update really gives Crescents the raw deal. Tridents and walls are good changes though.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
Extremely well done Aeryn/Cyro. I've forwarded this along and a discussion is under way.
;d
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Arty is one of the best parts of the game. It must be scaring off noobs?
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
I think they just don't realize the extent of the changes. A 1/3'rd reduction in radius means that it will hit 2.25x as much stuff before the change as it will after it
a 1/3'rd reduction in area would be much more appropriate than a 1/3'rd reduction in radius IMO
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Well artillery is supposed to counter t1 spam, not everything. If these nerfs are too radical and they no longer counter t1 spam, they can buff them again.
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The thing with the artillery is, maps are all very choke heavy and AA is super strong so if you turtle enough to spam artillery + appropriate AA, they are ultra efficient and it is close to impossible to break the defense. Ofc you can tech to epic and rekt everything on the way(HoR is the best) but it is extremely boring.
Fundamentally "tank" units should endure artillery fire to some extent but again a proper amount of art. can rekt all tanks(units are slow and choke maps, no mobility like air transport etc..)
As Arch. said, artillery supposed to counter t1 spam but currently effective against everything now.
About the patch, my fps is increased to 120 as the game starts, then follow the same trend until mid game and slowly dropping off. Late game it is roaming around 30-40 which is definitely much better than before. It is very well done by PG considering the short time they committed on the performance patch.
Edit: WP Cyro, you should post this to GG website, devs are very active there.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
About the patch, my fps is increased to 120 as the game starts
Like i described, my FPS says like 160 as the game starts, but it still has the responsiveness of playing with ~40fps
also I've forwarded this along and a discussion is under way. :D
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On March 05 2015 21:41 Cyro wrote:Like i described, my FPS says like 160 as the game starts, but it still has the responsiveness of playing with ~40fps also :D
Well my values are based on the values that fraps give me in-game, I didn't record the values. Despite the drop it is better than before (starts with max 40 and occasionally drops to 20 etc.. at the beginning).
Considering, probably it is very engine related/limited, it is a good step they had in very short period of time.
When they handle dedicated server stuff, this game is much more playable than currently is.
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Great research indeed, Cyro!
Do you guys have some advise for online play? Dos or don`ts.
Haven`t decided for a race yet, so i`m going random. And since i`ve only played campaign and some awkward skirmishs, i`m quite sure that i've developed some bad habbits. Too bad the replay function isn't ready at this point.
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On March 05 2015 22:13 Striker.superfreunde wrote:
Great research indeed, Cyro!
Do you guys have some advise for online play? Dos or don`ts.
Haven`t decided for a race yet, so i`m going random. And since i`ve only played campaign and some awkward skirmishs, i`m quite sure that i've developed some bad habbits. Too bad the replay function isn't ready at this point.
With Goo don't stay at starting spot because they can harass you early, find a resource near hill or brush and hide in that often. Your goal as Goo is to make a new mother before anything. After that you can make 2 small proteans before making new mothers.
With Human/Beta vs Goo you goal is to harass Goo ASAP and never stop doing that or you lose. So open with refinery and 2 factory and keep making tridents/commandos from those all the time. Then make another refinery. Use first scout to find their mother and harass with it if you can. Move around in groups of 4 units and split them a bit if drovers or small protean attack. Don't let them get eaten by mother goo. Make refineries and factories, tech up and try to harass all the time with up to 10 units groups. If you lose without doing much, you have to continue the same but with larger groups as Goo will now have more to defend with. Goo will try to ambush you from hills and brush so you need to be careful. Hill ambush can be noticed with air scouts and brush is best checked with single trident/commando. Later you can have ground scouts that can see inside brushes.
Human vs Human is turtle into mass Scythe and teleport with lancers. Lots of greed and refineries everywhere. Similar in Human vs Beta but you will have to deal with walls and guardians probably. Also you can make lots of Howitzes and Tridents vs Beta if they don't spam walls and guardians everywhere.
Beta vs Human is some pressure, map control and spamming walls and guardians and then go for hand of ruk.
In Beta v Beta similar but you can also go stealth stalkers and snipe Hubs and units
Goo vs Goo you need good micro so you can harass their mothers with drovers without being eaten. Also if you get an advantage in GvG you cannot lose anymore unless you fuck up.
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EPT
