EPTClassic.
General Discussion - Page 133
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Please be advised: We will be closing this General thread in 24 hours. It will remain searchable. After that we will require new threads to discuss topics. Questions should go in the stickied Q&A thread, screenshots and PotG will go in the PotG sticky, QQ/Rage/Complaints should go in the QQ/Rage thread. If you want to talk about maps or strategies open a new thread. Any comments or concerns will be logged please forward them to ZeromuS. This new forum is still fluid so we will try this out. General TL rules will still apply to new threads. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Classic. | ||
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Reaps
United Kingdom1280 Posts
Whereas i respect anyone's opinion they surely would of known it would cause controversy beforehand, especially after blizzard took action. | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
On March 30 2016 03:23 ZasZ. wrote: Here we go, these are the arguments I am talking about. Maybe your definition of integrity differs from mine, but accepting feedback, admitting you didn't get it right the first time around, and changing definitely does not show lack of integrity to me. You may call it pandering, but is there something fundamentally wrong with attempting to reach a new audience? Just because gamer bros are the majority, should Blizzard avoid trying to reach out to non-gamer bros? Did you actually care about this pose before this post was made (or even now), or are you just rebelling against "PC Culture?" I'm not a big fan of the outrage machine myself, but whenever these things pop up in spheres I actually care about I try to approach them on a case-by-case basis. In this case, I don't actually play Tracer, and if I did I probably wouldn't have used the pose. I don't care if they remove it, and if they do, I don't really care what there reasons were. This woman obviously did care about the pose, and I would be shocked if you could find someone that was as passionate about it from the other side before yesterday. It's also not censorship if the developer decides to make the change. No one is forcing Blizzard to act on this, and as you can see there is more pressure to reverse the decision than implement it. Who is censoring who now? And don't kid yourself. 99 percent of those claiming to boycott the game due to this molehill will be playing with everyone else on launch day. If people didn't get an erection every time they hear "PC Culture," this would have been a non-story other than Kaplan directly responded to this woman's post. Different individuals have different understandings of integrity, sure. This is, ultimately, a subjective issue, so it's not a case of being 'fundamentally wrong'. You're welcome to see this as a positive decision, and we can just leave it at this: we have completely different ideas about what integrity entails. And yes, for me it's about PC culture, not the pose. The pose is as benign as can be, and it is optional. I am concerned with the principle; withdrawing the option from all players because one doesn't like it. The pose is obviously not the problem; context is everything, hence why so many people are upset about it. They've been arguing for so long against censorship in the industry, and are being ignored. Blizzard is welcome to do as it pleases. They have a choice, and so do consumers. I won't buy the game. I don't really care if Blizzard is targeting a new audience. My hope is that other developers will see the backlash and won't make the same mistakes. | ||
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Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
I see the pose people are talking about and all I could do was facepalm. That is the pose causing such an uproar? I do not see a problem with it whatsoever. Funny thing is that this pose does fit in with the character so that makes it even more funny that its an issue. Also, don't some male characters have the same kind of pose? Might as well remove those poses as well lol They should've just left it alone. Better yet, keep the pose and add in that other pose they were talking about. Theres murdering going on in Overwatch and a simple pose is the thing that causes a problem LOL people these days | ||
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Reaps
United Kingdom1280 Posts
On March 30 2016 04:07 Disengaged wrote: I had no idea what supposed god awful pose people were talking about when I first saw it brought up in this thread. So, I go to the Overwatch forums in hopes of trying to find out, no luck there, although there were links I simply don't click links from random people. I go to youtube and type in tracer poses. I see the pose people are talking about and all I could do was facepalm. That is the pose causing such an uproar? I do not see a problem with it whatsoever. Funny thing is that this pose does fit in with the character so that makes it even more funny that its an issue. Also, don't some male characters have the same kind of pose? Might as well remove those poses as well lol They should've just left it alone. Better yet, keep the pose and add in that other pose they were talking about. Theres murdering going on in Overwatch and a simple pose is the thing that causes a problem LOL people these days +1 I feel people are just generally over sensitive these days, its a common occurrence. I put it down to people having too much free time on their hands. It's only caused so much of an uproar because blizzard acted upon it though. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 30 2016 04:07 Disengaged wrote: I had no idea what supposed god awful pose people were talking about when I first saw it brought up in this thread. So, I go to the Overwatch forums in hopes of trying to find out, no luck there, although there were links I simply don't click links from random people. I go to youtube and type in tracer poses. I see the pose people are talking about and all I could do was facepalm. That is the pose causing such an uproar? I do not see a problem with it whatsoever. Funny thing is that this pose does fit in with the character so that makes it even more funny that its an issue. Also, don't some male characters have the same kind of pose? Might as well remove those poses as well lol They should've just left it alone. Better yet, keep the pose and add in that other pose they were talking about. Theres murdering going on in Overwatch and a simple pose is the thing that causes a problem LOL people these days The pose causes no uproar. Blizzard asked for feedback. A single poster responded and said the pose seemed out of character for Tracer. There was a 13 page thread where people discussed the matter. Blizzard agreed and has since said they were considering removing the pose and replacing it anyways. The outrage is directly related to people being mad that a sexy pose was removed for reasons. That someone’s opinion that differed from theirs was listened to by Blizzard and that made them grumpy. At the end of the day, its Blizzard’s game. They won’t mind if you don’t buy it. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16909 Posts
http://www.engadget.com/2014/07/09/mike-morhaime-apologizes-for-lack-of-diversity-in-blizzard-games/ all that aside.... within any single game there is a certain level or range of playful, superfluous sexuality that the creator is comfortable with. its a shooting game not a sex game. its Blizzard's call to make. just like they have to determine how much "dancing" is put in Starcraft unit celebrations and how much detail goes into the critters that run around on Starcraft maps. these are extraneous fun to have add-on touches. i play Starcraft for teh game play. i don't need or want sexuality shoved in my face at every turn. i want to play an intense strategy game. therefore, there is a limit to how much needless sexual crap is put into the game before i'll start to squawk. that same process is going on with this in development title. every person's "limit" in this area is different. Blizzard more or less keeps things at a level i approve of in their titles. So I buy their games. I can see how Red Alert 3 might tip the scale against some people buying the game. | ||
NonY
8751 Posts
Maybe he thought it wasn't gonna blow up like it did and he is just happy whenever he gets to tell someone that their feedback is going to result in a change in the game and he wanted to be as encouraging as possible to the OP. And that involved some mirroring of their personality. I don't know. But now it did blow up and people don't know who Kaplan is anymore. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20319 Posts
There was a 13 page thread where people discussed the matter. And clearly disagreed with most of the arguments in the OP post, which is the issue. There was overwhelming feedback in the other direction. The poster was pretty nice, but there was some issues like it being about about her very young daughter playing the game which is rated Teen. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 30 2016 04:18 Cyro wrote: And clearly disagreed with most of the arguments in the OP post, which is the issue. There was overwhelming feedback in the other direction. The poster was pretty nice, but there was some issues like it being about about her very young daughter playing the game which is rated Teen. Blizzard is the one and only deciding vote in that discussion. It’s their game. People petition for many things, but that doesn’t mean they get their way. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16909 Posts
On March 30 2016 04:18 Cyro wrote: And clearly disagreed with most of the arguments in the OP post, which is the issue. There was overwhelming feedback in the other direction. The poster was pretty nice, but there was some issues like it being about about her very young daughter playing the game which is rated Teen. every issue in a developing game is a matter of vote by a forum mob? | ||
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Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
On March 30 2016 04:12 Plansix wrote: The pose causes no uproar. Blizzard asked for feedback. A single poster responded and said the pose seemed out of character for Tracer. There was a 13 page thread where people discussed the matter. Blizzard agreed and has since said they were considering removing the pose and replacing it anyways. The outrage is directly related to people being mad that a sexy pose was removed for reasons. That someone’s opinion that differed from theirs was listened to by Blizzard and that made them grumpy. At the end of the day, its Blizzard’s game. They won’t mind if you don’t buy it. The pose itself is not even sexy. Yeah, her butt is the first thing you see, but its not a sexy pose. Now, if the pose was her sitting down in a seductive way with her legs split apart, then I would see the point. Still, this isn't the first time that people get into an uproar over something silly and it won't be the last. The WoW forums are infested with things like this. Blizzard did go about it the wrong way though. If they asked for feedback and they listened to the one person who had a different opinion then the majority then they are doing it wrong. The Overwatch guys do seem to listen to the community, but in this case, they did it wrong. | ||
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On March 30 2016 04:03 bardtown wrote: Different individuals have different understandings of integrity, sure. This is, ultimately, a subjective issue, so it's not a case of being 'fundamentally wrong'. You're welcome to see this as a positive decision, and we can just leave it at this: we have completely different ideas about what integrity entails. And yes, for me it's about PC culture, not the pose. The pose is as benign as can be, and it is optional. I am concerned with the principle; withdrawing the option from all players because one doesn't like it. The pose is obviously not the problem; context is everything, hence why so many people are upset about it. They've been arguing for so long against censorship in the industry, and are being ignored. Blizzard is welcome to do as it pleases. They have a choice, and so do consumers. I won't buy the game. I don't really care if Blizzard is targeting a new audience. My hope is that other developers will see the backlash and won't make the same mistakes. I don't see it as a positive decision because I don't care about the pose. The OP, however, probably will see it as a positive decision. There are also apparently thousands of people who see it as a negative decision, I just can't understand why. If game developers never made any decisions without the approval of a majority of their player base, game development would be a boring place. Your last paragraph reveals the real motive behind all of this backlash. You are upset that game developers are no longer catering 100 percent to you and people like you. I get it, I'm getting old enough that games aren't catering to me either, but it's disingenuous to pretend this is about Blizzard's "integrity." | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 30 2016 04:27 Disengaged wrote: The pose itself is not even sexy. Yeah, her butt is the first thing you see, but its not a sexy pose. Now, if the pose was her sitting down in a seductive way with her legs split apart, then I would see the point. Still, this isn't the first time that people get into an uproar over something silly and it won't be the last. The WoW forums are infested with things like this. Blizzard did go about it the wrong way though. If they asked for feedback and they listened to the one person who had a different opinion then the majority then they are doing it wrong. The Overwatch guys do seem to listen to the community, but in this case, they did it wrong. No one said you were required to agree with the criticism, I was just informing you how it took place. There was no uproar until Blizzard decided they would follow through with their plans to remove the pose. You are entitled to think they did it wrong, but at the end of the day its their decision. The drama is currently the debate if Blizzard is supporting self censorship by removing digital booty. Well not removing, as much as changing the pose on a single character to feature it less. And if this is an affront to the god given right to view the digital booty in game. Because lets be clear, if you want sexed up Tracer, the internet will provide that to you. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20319 Posts
Still, this isn't the first time that people get into an uproar over something silly and it won't be the last This sort of thing snowballs very quickly because people look at previous examples and they know that absolutely nothing will change unless they make a storm over it. Blizzard has been known to roll back changes that the majority of the community disagrees with, but only when they are extremely unpopular and cost a huge amount of money. If it's anything less, it won't be mentioned. Your last paragraph reveals the real motive behind all of this backlash. You are upset that game developers are no longer catering 100 percent to you and people like you. I doubt that's true for the previous poster and it's not true for me. | ||
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Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
On March 30 2016 04:33 Plansix wrote: Because lets be clear, if you want sexed up Tracer, the internet will provide that to you. I don't want the internets version of a sexed up Tracer. Would be afraid to see the terrible creations they'd come up with. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 30 2016 04:43 Disengaged wrote: I don't want the internets version of a sexed up Tracer. Would be afraid to see the terrible creations they'd come up with. Well Blizzard has made it clear they don’t want to be your source, so you must risk the terrible word of fan art. Be brave and try not to judge them to harshly. | ||
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On March 30 2016 04:34 Cyro wrote: This sort of thing snowballs very quickly because people look at previous examples and they know that absolutely nothing will change unless they make a storm over it. Blizzard has been known to roll back changes that the majority of the community disagrees with, but only when they are extremely unpopular and cost a huge amount of money. If it's anything less, it won't be mentioned. I doubt that's true for the previous poster and it's not true for me. Do you play Tracer a lot and were you using this pose? If not, why is this a big deal? Specifically this change, not the PC culture boogeyman. I don't buy the argument that you must make a stand here in order to prevent massive PC takeover, because there are plenty of games coming out with sexualized female characters. And that's fine! Does Overwatch need all of its characters to have sexy poses? Apparently they think not. The reality is that this change literally only affects that poster and everyone who was using this pose as Tracer, which I don't think numbers in the thousands. Everybody else is mad about "what it represents," and what it represents is a developer deciding that Tracer's perfect ass is not the part of the character they are most proud of. | ||
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Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
On March 30 2016 04:45 Plansix wrote: Well Blizzard has made it clear they don’t want to be your source, so you must risk the terrible word of fan art. Be brave and try not to judge them to harshly. Not my source, more like the source for the people who actually care enough to turn this into an uproar. I literally don't care if they keep it or remove it. I just think there was nothing wrong with the pose. Besides, I don't need digital booty when I have real booty. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 30 2016 04:52 Disengaged wrote: Not my source, more like the source for the people who actually care enough to turn this into an uproar. I literally don't care if they keep it or remove it. I just think there was nothing wrong with the pose. Besides, I don't need digital booty when I have real booty. Lets be real, Blizzard has zero concerns about losing any reasonable number of sale over the removal of the digital booty. People care just enough to post online about how it’s removal ruins the game for them and that is it. They could have kept it and I doubt much would change either, but they wanted to change it. Much to do about nothing. | ||
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