EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 131
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Please be advised: We will be closing this General thread in 24 hours. It will remain searchable. After that we will require new threads to discuss topics. Questions should go in the stickied Q&A thread, screenshots and PotG will go in the PotG sticky, QQ/Rage/Complaints should go in the QQ/Rage thread. If you want to talk about maps or strategies open a new thread. Any comments or concerns will be logged please forward them to ZeromuS. This new forum is still fluid so we will try this out. General TL rules will still apply to new threads. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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baritonbricks
4 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16911 Posts
http://ca.ign.com/articles/2016/03/29/blizzard-to-change-overwatch-pose-following-fan-complaints Ever since Morhaime had to apologize for Browder Blizzard has really gone hard core P.C. with the removal of this victory pose i hope they add another one for nostalgia purposes.. ![[image loading]](http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/pvx/images/3/3e/Jeremy_teh_pwnerer.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080623210837) | ||
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
It's also not censorship when the creator decides to change their work, for whatever reason. No one is literally or figuratively holding a gun to Kaplan's head here. Given that they know more about the lore than any of us, he probably took a critical look at the pose and agreed with her that it's a strange look for Tracer given how they have presented her so far. But ultimately does it really matter whether they leave it in or take it out? Is anyone's Overwatch experience (other than this woman) severely impacted by the presence or absence of this pose? I don't think so. The people railing hard against the proposed change need to step back and ask themselves why that is, and if they may be making a mountain out of a molehill for the sake of appearing combative against "PC Culture." | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
More and more video game fans remind me of the people who obsess over boy bands. But rather than shiping their favorite couples in fan fic, they freak out when digital booty and titties are threatened. Its like the late 90s comics industry when they suddenly realized that maybe all the hyper sexual covers were limiting their audience and fans freaked the fuck out. | ||
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On March 30 2016 01:08 deth2munkies wrote: This was not a big deal until Blizzard changed it, now it's kind of a big deal that they choose to listen to a small handful of overly PC fans when it comes to aesthetic considerations that most of us either like or don't care about. It bugs me, but it's entirely within Blizzard's prerogative to do so, I just hope they don't fold as easily on things that matter more. That's the thing though, this woman's feedback seems very different to me than normal "PC Culture." She didn't have a problem with sexualization, she had a problem with sexualization of a specific character where it seemed out of place. She actually provided context and reasoning for her opinion, which is contrary to the perception of PC Culture as an outrage machine with no filters or discretion. I don't think Blizzard is "folding" to a handful of PC fans, I think they listened to a viewpoint they hadn't considered before, and discovered that it made some sense. I trust them to do the same if future incidents like this occur. It's also not purely aesthetic if they find that the pose undermines the character that they have built, considering how much work they are putting into building a story around a multiplayer-only game, which is fairly unprecedented (I believe). | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
Also cover Hanzo's upper body ffs, won't they think about the 12yo girls who shall blush at that manly torax?  | ||
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lestye
United States4182 Posts
I think think the pose was harming the game of being inclusive at all. It kinda reminded me of this one video I saw years back where a conservative family had their daughter take irish stepdancing lessons, because all other forms of dancing that one moved their hips was perverse in their eyes. And its like, does this mean any side pose angled poses are out the window because of fear it will too much attention to other parts of their body? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 30 2016 01:51 Salteador Neo wrote: Removing that pose is so much lolz. The sniper (Widowmaker?) neutral pose is more sexy than that. Also cover Hanzo's upper body ffs, won't they think about the 12yo girls who shall blush at that manly torax? Which is in line with her character design and Blizzard left that unchanged. The digital booty is still displayed on Widowmaker. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
Imagine if it was the opposite and someone was like "Widowmaker can't have this cute pose, she's the sexy one! Blizz plz remove!" | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16911 Posts
On March 30 2016 01:54 lestye wrote: It kinda reminded me of this one video I saw years back where a conservative family had their daughter take irish stepdancing lessons, because all other forms of dancing that one moved their hips was perverse in their eyes. And its like, does this mean any side pose angled poses are out the window because of fear it will too much attention to other parts of their body? it is ironic that Elvis Presley's lower body was never shown in camera shots of America's most popular late night show at the time. i think the "Ed Sullivan Show". the pelvic thrust was not permitted. 10 years later.. Jimmy Page is using his guitar neck as a simulated cock as he simulates jacking off at the end of "I can't quit You babe" ... a song about a guy who can't break a masturbation habit. the Jimmy Page thing was 45+ years ago. How did our senior citizen population manage to keep western society going from 1970 onward after seeing what Page did ? | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
On March 30 2016 01:55 Plansix wrote: Which is in line with her character design and Blizzard left that unchanged. The digital booty is still displayed on Widowmaker. So while I haven't read a word about Tracer's or any other character lore, why is that "sexy" pose not in line with her character design? She looks like a strong independant woman to me, who can be flirty whenever the hell she wants. Hardcore feminists should easily agree with that, no? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 30 2016 02:09 Salteador Neo wrote: So while I haven't read a word about Tracer's or any other character lore, why is that "sexy" pose not in line with her character design? She looks like a strong independant woman to me, who can be flirty whenever the hell she wants. Hardcore feminists should easily agree with that, no? I am not going to speak to all feminist, but the fact is that Tracer is not a person. She is a construct or doll, that has not agency or ability to make decisions. She is dressed, posed and her actions are dictated by other people. Her creators felt that the pose didn't reflect the character they created and this was re-enforced by feedback they solicited. Hence the change to another pose they feel better reflects the character they created. | ||
Valiver
Caldeum1977 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20319 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IJXQ5ze.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NYGz3Bm.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7oVKBmj.jpg) ^official stuff + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/T5KfQn3.jpg) ^fanart overwhelming majority of people do not want it removed: http://strawpoll.me/7212830/r Should Kaplan change the Tracer pose 1. No 4107 votes (93%) 2. Yes 296 votes (7%) This has shifted from 95% yes to 93% yes in the last few thousand votes but the result is clear. I've gone into a ton of detail in some other posts (not on TL) but i think the whole situation is pretty disgusting; the blizzard reply in particular. The lead game designer came into a thread with 200 posts, a thread where 90% of the people disagreed with the OP and then said that he agreed with the OP, he would be removing the pose; that everyone should feel strong & heroic and not uncomfortable and then apologised for the offense. There was no other context. For exact wording, see here: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LtxNijp.png) I don't agree that the pose is overly sexual or even particularly sexual at all. The pants in her default skin may be too tight, but that has nothing to do with the pose. Even if everybody agreed that it was sexual, why is that such a bad thing? Why is there some barrier up that says no 26 year old woman can be at all sexy? Tracer was a strong female character | ||
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On March 30 2016 02:15 Valiver wrote: I always took it as she had dashed passed you already and was waiting on you, not a sexy pose. She's looking "over the shoulder" at you cause she's so fast, that's kinda part of her character. That interpretation might fly if she weren't wearing skin-tight leggings where you can see the crack of her ass. I don't think the pose or the pants are overly sexualized on their own, but together they definitely are. And yeah, I see a lot of slippery slope counterarguments talking about how Widowmaker has sexy poses or Hanzo is shirtless, and all of them completely disregard the fact that this feedback was based on Tracer as a character and that the poster even acknowledges that this type of sexualization can work for other characters. It's really not a big deal except that people for some reason take it really personally when they interpret a developer's change as "PC." I don't see a compelling reason why every character in Overwatch must have a sexual pose, but I also didn't really care that much. This woman cared, shared her feedback, and Blizzard listened and agreed. That should be the extent of the story. EDIT: Cyro, I would argue that Tracer twisting behind to shoot is very different from her literally standing facing away from the camera for no reason so you can ogle her ass. If the post-match victory screen were someone taking a picture, why the hell would she stand like that? EDIT: Also, people seem to be strawmanning and saying that people want NO female character to be sexualized. The poster explicitly states that the sexualization of Widowmaker makes sense. We are talking about Tracer. And unless you make the argument that ALL of the characters should be sexualized, I don't really see a good counterargument other than "it was already in the game." And considering that this is still a closed beta, that's a pretty poor excuse on its own. | ||
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