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Should Kaplan change the Tracer pose 1. No 4107 votes (93%) 2. Yes 296 votes (7%)
This has shifted from 95% yes to 93% yes in the last few thousand votes but the result is clear.
I've gone into a ton of detail in some other posts (not on TL) but i think the whole situation is pretty disgusting.
The blizzard reply in particular.
The lead game designer actually came into a thread with 200 posts, a thread where 90% of the people disagreed with the OP and then said that he agreed with the OP, he would be removing the pose; that everyone should feel strong & heroic and not uncomfortable and then apologised for the offense. There was no other context. For exact wording, see here:
Don't buy the game. Problem solved. Blizzard does what Blizzard thinks is best for Blizzard. If you don't like it, just move on.
Requote w/ edits so it doesn't cover the whole page plz :D
As for not buying the game: That's what feedback is for, really. "Don't buy the game", "Refund the game" is not a reasonable response, nor is "i don't like something, remove it". There should be a dialogue here. Basic dialogue and polling will ensure that you don't get decisions that set the internet on fire and get polls on your official forum voting 93/7 against your decisions.
EDIT: Cyro, I would argue that Tracer twisting behind to shoot is very different from her literally standing facing away from the camera for no reason so you can ogle her ass. If the post-match victory screen were someone taking a picture, why the hell would she stand like that?
I don't want to ogle her ass. Hell, i think it's fun to look and act in a pretty tracer-y way myself. Being overly sensitive to anything that girls do being percieved as sexual is not helping anyone~
As for the why, 4-5 or so of the characters have a back-to-camera-look-over-shoulder pose. Since she does it in all of the official content & art and in character whenever she's running around and it's popular elsewhere in the game, it's not such a stretch to have a cosmetic option of her doing it.
On March 30 2016 02:48 Cyro wrote: Requote w/ edits so it doesn't cover the whole page plz :D
As for not buying the game: That's what feedback is for, really. "Don't buy the game", "Refund the game" is not a reasonable response, nor is "i don't like something, remove it". There should be a dialogue here. Basic dialogue and polling will ensure that you don't get decisions that set the internet on fire and get polls on your official forum voting 93/7 against your decisions.
The dialogue happened. Kaplan agreed with the woman. There you go.
Game development is not a democracy but it's not that either.
If he had talked to me and i suggested making it a ww2 themed game so that we could have a Hitler character, it doesn't matter if he agrees or not. It's a stupid thing to do and would involve violating the trust of everybody who bought the game. It would anger a lot of people, invite open mockery - and rightfully so.
Yeah, I don't buy into the idea of "Majority supports it, therefore it should be done" especially if we're talking about topics that involve inclusivity.
On March 30 2016 02:52 Cyro wrote: Game development is not a democracy but it's not that either.
Well to be completely frank, game development of Overwatch is completely up to Blizzard. They have solicited feedback, and listened to this particular piece of feedback. Seems to be working as intended to me. If it were an actual gameplay or some large change, I would expect them to solicit more feedback. But it's not.
On March 30 2016 02:55 lestye wrote: Yeah, I don't buy into the idea of "Majority supports it, therefore it should be done" especially if we're talking about topics that involve inclusivity.
Especially with a company that is always trying to expand its audience.
On March 30 2016 02:52 Cyro wrote: Game development is not a democracy but it's not that either.
If he had talked to me and i suggested making it a ww2 themed game so that we could have a Hitler character, it doesn't matter if he agrees or not. It's a stupid thing to do and would involve violating the trust of everybody who bought the game. It would anger a lot of people, invite open mockery - and rightfully so.
The difference is that your suggestion changes the entire game. If he actually thought it was a good idea (hint: he wouldn't) he would still have to run it by his entire team and the player base because it is a huge change. So basically, your example sucks. It's the slippery slope argument that everyone else is making, whereby by making this small change Kaplan is agreeing to acquiesce to every piece of feedback, significant or otherwise, that will ever be submitted for all time. It's ridiculous.
I won't be buying anymore. I hope others who say the same will stick to it and other developers will learn that we want developers to show integrity. So tired of seeing pandering tech companies cow to vocal minorities without a leg to stand on, and so relieved to see gamers having the awareness to stand up to nonsensical censorship.
Slippery slope is not a good argument on the first change but it holds solid after a series of similar events. This is the third time in the last year that i can recall blizzard removing something that i liked after a complaint about it not being suitable for a female character.
Pretty sure they will just take the loss on the insignificant sales and enjoy the new audience they have been working hard to cultivate. Much like comics and movies are doing. And just like the CoD boycott of long ago, the people pledging to boycott will buy it anyways because they are weak and don't really care that much.
On March 30 2016 03:05 bardtown wrote: I won't be buying anymore. I hope others who say the same will stick to it and other developers will learn that we want developers to show integrity. So tired of seeing pandering tech companies cow to vocal minorities without a leg to stand on, and so relieved to see gamers having the awareness to stand up to nonsensical censorship.
Here we go, these are the arguments I am talking about. Maybe your definition of integrity differs from mine, but accepting feedback, admitting you didn't get it right the first time around, and changing definitely does not show lack of integrity to me. You may call it pandering, but is there something fundamentally wrong with attempting to reach a new audience? Just because gamer bros are the majority, should Blizzard avoid trying to reach out to non-gamer bros?
Did you actually care about this pose before this post was made (or even now), or are you just rebelling against "PC Culture?" I'm not a big fan of the outrage machine myself, but whenever these things pop up in spheres I actually care about I try to approach them on a case-by-case basis. In this case, I don't actually play Tracer, and if I did I probably wouldn't have used the pose. I don't care if they remove it, and if they do, I don't really care what there reasons were. This woman obviously did care about the pose, and I would be shocked if you could find someone that was as passionate about it from the other side before yesterday.
It's also not censorship if the developer decides to make the change. No one is forcing Blizzard to act on this, and as you can see there is more pressure to reverse the decision than implement it. Who is censoring who now?
And don't kid yourself. 99 percent of those claiming to boycott the game due to this molehill will be playing with everyone else on launch day. If people didn't get an erection every time they hear "PC Culture," this would have been a non-story other than Kaplan directly responded to this woman's post.
On March 30 2016 03:27 DuB phool wrote: Tracer booty got this thread more active than it's been in ages!
Hah~
Peoples arguments that the digital booty being removed will lead to the end of western civilization keep it going. The fear of further booty removal is real.
On March 30 2016 03:31 Cyro wrote: I'l argue against most things being removed for these reasons but people like to target butts for removal.
But I still haven't heard a compelling reason for why it should stay if Blizzard agrees that it should go. Is there an argument other than "We can't give in to the PC Police?" Like I said, I'm not usually a fan of the outrage machine either but you have to pick your battles. They can't be wrong 100 percent of the time.
I don't really pay attention to this game, but came across the ordeal through TB's video. Got a nice laugh at the ridiculousness of the complaint, at least .
Leave it to TB to belittle the views of someone else, but lose his mind if he can’t play at 60 FPS. He prefers 60 FPS and claims it is critical for him to enjoy the game. But when someone has a different reason for why they have a hard time enjoying the game, it’s their fault for holding that opinion. If it doesn’t bother him, anyone it does bother is wrong or stupid. Classic.
On March 30 2016 03:43 Plansix wrote: Leave it to TB to belittle the views of someone else, but lose his mind if he can’t play at 60 FPS. He prefers 60 FPS and claims it is critical for him to enjoy the game. But when someone has a different reason for why they have a hard time enjoying the game, it’s their fault for holding that opinion. If it doesn’t bother him, anyone it does bother is wrong or stupid. Classic.
Yeah I love TB but he can be short-sighted on these issues, and it isn't helped by what he's gone through over the last several years. It's a funny satire but when you consider that he is calling out an individual's post rather than a company or group, it makes the attention kind of unwarranted. I'm sure people are already trying to doxx this poor person because she dared post feedback on Blizzard's closed-beta game.
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