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On December 05 2014 23:01 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2014 22:50 bo1b wrote:On December 05 2014 22:44 Teoita wrote:
Eh when the system is that abusable by top guilds (and not by the average raiding guild) it also means that the time they take to clear mythic isn't a great indication of content difficulty The only reason it's that abusable is that the content at heroic and normal difficulties is trivial. If the gear check at heroic was significant strategies like that could never get off the ground. As an example, the tightest dps check on heroic is the butcher, which requires 19k dps per dps player assuming a standard ratio of healers/tanks/dps. That shit is abusable in the way that good guilds can get both more healing and damage per player then lesser guilds, and they can end up using more dps then healers. To be frank, 630 or so ilvl is enough to push most dps averages up to 19k. yes when you group some of the best players in the world together heroic and normal is trivial. Surprise, the difficulty isn't meant for them. what exactly is your argument?
My argument is that "Heroic" difficulty shouldn't be completable with 4 mains and 26 alts within 2-3 days of release
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On December 05 2014 23:02 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2014 23:01 Gorsameth wrote:On December 05 2014 22:50 bo1b wrote:On December 05 2014 22:44 Teoita wrote:
Eh when the system is that abusable by top guilds (and not by the average raiding guild) it also means that the time they take to clear mythic isn't a great indication of content difficulty The only reason it's that abusable is that the content at heroic and normal difficulties is trivial. If the gear check at heroic was significant strategies like that could never get off the ground. As an example, the tightest dps check on heroic is the butcher, which requires 19k dps per dps player assuming a standard ratio of healers/tanks/dps. That shit is abusable in the way that good guilds can get both more healing and damage per player then lesser guilds, and they can end up using more dps then healers. To be frank, 630 or so ilvl is enough to push most dps averages up to 19k. yes when you group some of the best players in the world together heroic and normal is trivial. Surprise, the difficulty isn't meant for them. what exactly is your argument? My argument is that "Heroic" difficulty shouldn't be completable with 4 mains and 26 alts within 2-3 days of release
If the top % of raiding guilds is having difficulty with Heroic its intended audience will hit a concrete wall.
As for your other point, we got 3 weeks before raids opened not because they wanted everyone to be more geared but because they wanted to give people time to level and gear at a comfortable pace. Normally for even semi-hardcore raiders it was a mad dash to hit max level and spam dungeons to get geared in time.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
also these ''alts'' you speak off most likely have like all the gear that the mains have too before entering Highmaul, they might as well be mains.
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Italy12246 Posts
On December 05 2014 23:02 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2014 23:01 Gorsameth wrote:On December 05 2014 22:50 bo1b wrote:On December 05 2014 22:44 Teoita wrote:
Eh when the system is that abusable by top guilds (and not by the average raiding guild) it also means that the time they take to clear mythic isn't a great indication of content difficulty The only reason it's that abusable is that the content at heroic and normal difficulties is trivial. If the gear check at heroic was significant strategies like that could never get off the ground. As an example, the tightest dps check on heroic is the butcher, which requires 19k dps per dps player assuming a standard ratio of healers/tanks/dps. That shit is abusable in the way that good guilds can get both more healing and damage per player then lesser guilds, and they can end up using more dps then healers. To be frank, 630 or so ilvl is enough to push most dps averages up to 19k. yes when you group some of the best players in the world together heroic and normal is trivial. Surprise, the difficulty isn't meant for them. what exactly is your argument? My argument is that "Heroic" difficulty shouldn't be completable with 4 mains and 26 alts within 2-3 days of release
Top raiding guilds have those 26 alts geared to the teeth like the mains though. We aren't talking about random scrubs from /2
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On December 05 2014 23:17 Kipsate wrote:
also these ''alts'' you speak off most likely have like all the gear that the mains have too before entering Highmaul, they might as well be mains.
Not really, I chat to them pretty frequently on mumble and they have a lot of 630ish characters, but not too many geared up alts in cm gear.
Is it that much to ask that blizzard makes the last heroic bosses need some normal loot on most of the players? Idk seems weird.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
630 gear is fine for HC? you are going to need more then that for mythic most likely but 630 is fine for HC.
You can always balance out lesser gear with more skill, as these guilds can do, the raids aren't balanced around these hardcore guilds.
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Italy12246 Posts
630 gear is fine for HC? you are going to need more then that for mythic most likely but 630 is fine for HC.
Especially when the people behind the keyboard are actually really good palyers
Finally got to the point where i dont need to save garrison resources for the lvl 3 buildings etc and can send followers to get stuff as much as i please. It's pretty nice.
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I would love to send my followers on missions but 90% of them have the same abilities. I think 11/19 are Rogues.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51474 Posts
Yeah bo1b has a semi point, the alts Method were running their total of 7 groups normal mode for the loot for mains where literally legendary ring epic + 3/4 CM loots. If it was there mains they have a few more pieces but nothing much.
Noxe, the raid leader of Method a rogue was using off hand Dagger which was an heirloom and literally had 2 epics, ring and a cmode piece.
But the instance is not difficult for them for other reasons...they have done it in the beta. They know the fights and on Normal (aka flex) it is stupidly easy if you have people with the standard utilities of not standing in fire on Twins or knowing how Ko'ragh works.
Oh the last boss isn't faceroll on Heroic either, takes a big understanding of how the mechanics work. It is very intense last phase due to so much is going on.
My guild isn't even that good far from it, GM won't even let me bring alts to normal / heroic bosses i need gear on or run 2 groups etc because he doesn't want too. Yet we managed to get 5/7 heroic within 2 raid nights.
Mythic according to what i tested (2 bosses, Tectus and BlackRock boss with wolves raping the raid lol) it is going to be alot harder than i was used too but it was beta it isn't that defined.
Also i voted in that poll 7 days but i thought you meant 1 guild to be 7/7 mythic. I think Method/Paragon whoever wins will take 7 days to do so. 10 more? I would think around 14 days.
I can see my guild needing to farm Heroic for a while before we are killing Twins Mythic or even beating enrage on Butcher.
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Italy12246 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51474 Posts
Ko'ragh of course aka Korogoth
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Italy12246 Posts
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isn't the new heroic mode supposed to be what was called normal in mop? would be quite normal that the good guilds get through it pretty quickly.
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On December 06 2014 00:46 Noizhende wrote:
isn't the new heroic mode supposed to be what was called normal in mop? would be quite normal that the good guilds get through it pretty quickly.
correct
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On December 05 2014 23:21 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2014 23:17 Kipsate wrote:
also these ''alts'' you speak off most likely have like all the gear that the mains have too before entering Highmaul, they might as well be mains. Not really, I chat to them pretty frequently on mumble and they have a lot of 630ish characters, but not too many geared up alts in cm gear. Is it that much to ask that blizzard makes the last heroic bosses need some normal loot on most of the players? Idk seems weird.
Given how wildly different specs vary with gear (proc trinkets especially), it'd be relatively impossible to fully balance.
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Italy12246 Posts
Plus by doing that you essentially force people to run the same content three times, which is not a good decision. You also defeat the intended purpose of Normal mode (an easier setting for less skilled/committed groups).
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Italy12246 Posts
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I'm confused. What am I supposed to be seeing there? That mage isn't in the rankings at all.
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Italy12246 Posts
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EPT
