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On October 22 2014 21:59 Teoita wrote:
I agree low levels are really nonsensical atm. I've been told that damage scales automatically with levels, as well as with gear, so basically as you level up you might barely change items but your damage still increases. The squish was defintely half arsed, and it didn't address the item level spikes between expansions at all. That insane spike is still there, just made less prominent because everything is just flattened, so those bumps are less noticable.
The really wierd thing is that atm our stats are around wotlk levels (say, int or spellpower), yet dps is pulling numbers comparable to cata. Somewhere in there things are still scaling way too well despite items actually having really low stats. Plus, the spike from a freshly dinged level 90 to a hc soo geared 90 is still fucking absurd.
Ya i heard that that too, but i never saw an actual bluepost or smth on that, that's why i asked.
Maybe it's just me, but leveling was boring before, it's just mindnumbing now. Before, you at least had a happyface when something nice dropped, new gear, woohoo - now you simply don't care anymore. Literally, i don't even check what's dropping anymore, just greeding stuff - because 95% of what drops is like 1 point more crit (not %, point), as if that'd make a difference.
Just ranting because i have to go through that now. It's still dumb.
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Italy12246 Posts
To be honest, levelling is just something that you either love or hate, with little middle ground; i don't think the squish changes things too much. Not getting upgrades that are as meaningful is not the nicest thing, but i think the main reason people would enjoy levelling is getting new skills or figuring out a new class as opposed to getting upgrades in dungeons and quest that are just trivial to complete.
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Sorry but SD is 10%, it's a tooltip fix on mmo-c. And sorry but anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, if you're going to claim against what the prominent figures are saying you better back it up with actual data instead of "I did more than this warrior therefore what I did was right".
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On October 22 2014 22:12 DCRed wrote:
Sorry but SD is 10%, it's a tooltip fix on mmo-c. And sorry but anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, if you're going to claim against what the prominent figures are saying you better back it up with actual data instead of "I did more than this warrior therefore what I did was right".
Look I don't care what figures say, I really don't. In practical circumstances it doesn't matter, because if there is a difference and if TfB is somehow higher, it's not higher enough that it actually makes a genuine difference. The ONLY logical argument for TfB being better is the fact that the 4pc set bonus is currently already overlapping with SD. The 4pc is obviously a DPS increase, but for those without it, SD fills a valuable niche and will in the expansion to come. EVEN WITH the 4pc, Execute is your highest possible damage spell, casting more can only be a good thing and is almost always better than flat rage gen.
Give me an actual, logical reason why TfB is better rather than "some sim said it was" and I may take you seriously.
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I'm sorry but it's you here who is going to have prove SD>TfB when there's logs, sims and people telling you otherwise. I don't care what you do but at least don't go around saying SD is the choice when arms doesn't pick it even for single target.
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On October 22 2014 22:02 deth2munkies wrote:
SD is currently 20%, it's getting knocked down to 10% on the WoD beta but not on live. Taste for Blood does not deal any additional damage, try reading the tooltip. I just confirmed it in game. Execute still costs rage under 20% and costs enough that you can run out spamming it on every GCD (even with TfB) without the proc periodically making it free. If you're going to try to tell me what's better for my class, I'd suggest at least reading the abilities you're looking at.
Just.. wow. There's so much wrong, i don't even know where to start. SD is currently 20%, yes? How about you go the 85 dummy, and check? You never played with 20% SD, and i'm getting tired of you trying to argue with me while clearly not giving a shit about your class, otherwise you would know simple things like that. 20% SD never existed on live. It always was 10%, and it's something SO easy to check, don't know what to say. Extra rage doesn't equal doing damage, got it. If you play ragecapped all day long, that might be the case.
Oh, and i don't just look at the skills, i'm trying to inform myself by reading what actual high-end warriors have to say. And again, you don't want a free execute in the execute phase, if you do not understand simple concepts like this, i really can't help you. The periodical proc doesn't just make it free, but also do less damage by a big margin. And again: it tells you in the tooltip.
But help me. Let's look and do the math together. You have two talents. One gives you rage, the other one a free execute every now and then. You are properly geared, so you have the t16 4pc bonus, which basically does exactly what you already spent a talentpoint on. Now, let's think. You can have TfB PLUS SD (actually, it's even a better version than SD, because it consumes rage, which equals bonus damage), or SD + DS. Help me. Extra rage + harder hitting executes than SD, or rage consuming DS + SD. Eh?
I learn by doing and practicing, not relying on sims. Again, I was a less-geared Warrior than pretty much every DPS except one in the SoO group and I dominated the meters on most fights, even while screwing up my rotation, with Execute being one of my main sources of damage.
Oh, the magical "for me math doesn't apply, i play around it" player. A shitty geared player, with a sub-par rotation "destroying" a raid kinda tells me more about the raid, than it does about your dps. But feel free to post a log and convince me otherwise.
Give me an actual, logical reason why TfB is better rather than "some sim said it was" and I may take you seriously.
"some sim said it was" is pretty much the biggest reason, because in this case you can't argue with it. The sim already assumes the best case scenario for SD by default, and it still loses. Apart from that, if you actually think that your "well rounded opinion" is worth more than all the sims which were run by pro players, nobody can really help you anymore.
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Italy12246 Posts
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To be honest, levelling is just something that you either love or hate, with little middle ground; i don't think the squish changes things too much. Not getting upgrades that are as meaningful is not the nicest thing, but i think the main reason people would enjoy levelling is getting new skills or figuring out a new class as opposed to getting upgrades in dungeons and quest that are just trivial to complete.
Sorry, got sidetracked.
I always hated leveling, but i loved getting new things. I'd agree on what you said, if it weren't for one thing: look at the new "progression" skills-wise, not even there you can look forward to stuff. I just levelled 8 levels now, to get the (completely obsolete) table. Since i started levelling, the only exciting things were: icelance. .. Well, that's it. For 72 (well a bit less, but you get what i mean) levels i shoot frostbolts, and icelances. There's tens of levels without any meaningful change.
I'm not saying, give me back the old crap where i had to run back to the trainer every two levels, but give me something to look forward for while leveling. There's no carrot on a stick anymore (not the trinket).
I use icy veins for all my toons, to get a rough idea. But i also try to go through the forums and look why "X" is the best option.
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On October 22 2014 22:28 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +To be honest, levelling is just something that you either love or hate, with little middle ground; i don't think the squish changes things too much. Not getting upgrades that are as meaningful is not the nicest thing, but i think the main reason people would enjoy levelling is getting new skills or figuring out a new class as opposed to getting upgrades in dungeons and quest that are just trivial to complete. Sorry, got sidetracked. I always hated leveling, but i loved getting new things. I'd agree on what you said, if it weren't for one thing: look at the new "progression" skills-wise, not even there you can look forward to stuff. I just levelled 8 levels now, to get the (completely obsolete) table. Since i started levelling, the only exciting things were: icelance. .. Well, that's it. For 72 (well a bit less, but you get what i mean) levels i shoot frostbolts, and icelances. There's tens of levels without any meaningful change.
As a frostmage, you are not going to use any other spell as nukes. You just have frostbolt, icelance, frostfire and ice nova talent, if you spec into it. And of course, the ocasional cooldowns.
Edit - Leveling is just a chore with 90 lvls to be honest, you should just be able to cruise around content, and a "loremaster" option to de-level yourself to make old content if you want.
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Normally I agree, but at the start of an expansion with things in flux, information gets outdated, sims use flawed weighting mechanics, and people are just morons. I always start with what logically makes sense and 99% of the time sims back me up. This is the one time where 1 Rage/sec makes no logical sense over 1 free execute every 20 seconds. Even if the damage reduction % applies during the Execute phase (which is unclear in practice, whether that's an actual bug or not remains to be seen), spending over 80% doing more DPS and having what amounts to maybe a 3-5% dps hit during the Execute phase doesn't seem to add up in my head.
Give me a logical reason why 1 Rage/sec is better than 1 Execute/20 seconds. If you can't, I'm more likely to say that the sims are weighted incorrectly or are being used incorrectly.
Example: Earlier in this thread people were claiming TfB had a damage component. Going by comments on WoWhead and the like it looks like it did but was removed at some point. I have no idea if the guide/sim was updated to reflect that.
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Italy12246 Posts
I don't play a warrior myself and would rather not get dragged into this, but: icy veins guides do not just account for sims, they are also reviewed by top raiders. I think it's safe to assume that they know their shit when it comes to this stuff; even is something turns out to be incorrect, it's very likely to not be a big deal anyway.
Now, shall we go back to discussing how a game with 6 times more subscribers than its competitors is dieing (or has been dead for years, depending on the point of view)? 
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Example: Earlier in this thread people were claiming TfB had a damage component. Going by comments on WoWhead and the like it looks like it did but was removed at some point. I have no idea if the guide/sim was updated to reflect that.
Not people were claiming it, i was. And i worded it wrong, the statement is still correct though. I said it makes you deal additional damage, which is correct. I should've added that t16 4pc plays into that (since that's where your extra rage goes), but nonetheless.
I'm done though, if we go to the point that now somehow icy veins and ejs use wrong statweights (you figured that out, but they didn't? come on..), it gets stupid.
Have a good one, destroying what i suppose is LFR.
Now, shall we go back to discussing how a game with 6 times more subscribers than its competitors is dieing (or has been dead for years, depending on the point of view)?
Wow is dead for 4 years now. 
Fun aside though, anyone else had a long pause? I almost paused a year in WotLK, kinda got fed up badly there.
edit: sorry, missed it
As a frostmage, you are not going to use any other spell as nukes. You just have frostbolt, icelance, frostfire and ice nova talent, if you spec into it. And of course, the ocasional cooldowns
Well, FFB and ice nova are not there yet on lvl 72. Actually FFB is, but the proc isn't, and it deals less damage than FB with longer casttime, so, kinda pointless for now.
Multistrike kinda helps a tiny bit, makes me happy if i get an icelance proc (with the splitting ice glyph). That's what motivates me to level. Quite sad, coming to think of it :[
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Italy12246 Posts
Yep, i took a break from 2010 to 2013 because i was all serious about sc2 so i didn't play much else in that period.
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On October 22 2014 22:56 Teoita wrote:
Yep, i took a break from 2010 to 2013 because i was all seroius about sc2 so i didn't play much else in that period.
What brought you back in the end?
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Italy12246 Posts
I stopped enjoying the competitive side of sc2 (i'm one of those players that has to practice for a few hours every day to not suck balls), my gf and i decided to start gaming together and she really doesn't like competitive, multiplayer kind of games, and a wave of nostalgia i got from playing in the hs beta. Last year's blizzcon was the final straw :D
It really is true that you can take breaks from wow, but you can't really quit it.
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On October 22 2014 23:05 Teoita wrote:
I stopped enjoying the competitive side of sc2 (i'm one of those players that has to practice for a few hours every day to not suck balls), my gf and i decided to start gaming together and she really doesn't like competitive, multiplayer kind of games, and a wave of nostalgia i got from playing in the hs beta. Last year's blizzcon was the final straw :D
It really is true that you can take breaks from wow, but you can't really quit it.
Yup.. Almost the same story here. Played WoW, got fed up, break, and with hearthstone and girlfriend, WoW came back.
Sad really. -,-
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Italy12246 Posts
Nah, wow is fun, why would it be sad to be back? I'd still be playing some videogame anyway because that's just kind of what i do anyway.
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+ Show Spoiler +
Post-nerf but I don't care, got a BoA for my Shaman, got the title, GG MoP you were great.
edit: I accidentally a during my happiness
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On October 22 2014 22:52 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +As a frostmage, you are not going to use any other spell as nukes. You just have frostbolt, icelance, frostfire and ice nova talent, if you spec into it. And of course, the ocasional cooldowns Well, FFB and ice nova are not there yet on lvl 72. [
I meant at lvl 90, as a "things won't change much".
About the rend vs free executes. Learn to calculate that stuff for yourself. Seriously, it is not that hard and you can come to hard conclussions about it... by yourself and for yourself.
My character's skills are:
Execute : 5475 / 10 = 547.5 damage/rage
Whirlwind : 4328 / 20 = 216.4 damage/rage
Taste for blood gives me one free whirlwind each 18 seconds, or 4328 · 60 / 18 = 14426.66 damage per minute
Sudden Death gives me 1 free execute each 10 swings.
Attack speed 3.2 (change this with raid buffs if needed). So it takes 32 seconds to land get the proc going, or 5475 · 60/32 = 10265.32 damage per minute
So i am losing DPS using SD against Taste for blood on a "one target" scenario.
At 20% or less health, you switch the "free whirlwind" for executes, which as you can see above, are more efficient per rage point, making taste for blood even better, while SD stays the same (it doesn't consume extra rage as far i know). And of course, all of this is with my crappy gear withouth bonus sets and withouth raid buffs (which should be there) or the like, because if i am trying to look at what to spec, i am going to do it myself.
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On October 22 2014 23:43 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2014 22:52 m4ini wrote:As a frostmage, you are not going to use any other spell as nukes. You just have frostbolt, icelance, frostfire and ice nova talent, if you spec into it. And of course, the ocasional cooldowns Well, FFB and ice nova are not there yet on lvl 72. [ I meant at lvl 90, as a "things won't change much". About the rend vs free executes. Learn to calculate that stuff for yourself. Seriously, it is not that hard and you can come to hard conclussions about it... by yourself and for yourself. My character's skills are: Execute : 5475 / 10 = 547.5 damage/rage Whirlwind : 4328 / 20 = 216.4 damage/rage Taste for blood gives me one free whirlwind each 18 seconds, or 4328 · 60 / 18 = 14426.66 damage per minute Sudden Death gives me 1 free execute each 10 swings. Attack speed 3.2 (change this with raid buffs if needed). So it takes 32 seconds to land get the proc going, or 5475 · 60/32 = 10265.32 damage per minute So i am losing DPS using SD against Taste for blood on a "one target" scenario. At 20% or less health, you switch the "free whirlwind" for executes, which as you can see above, are more efficient per rage point, making taste for blood even better, while SD stays the same (it doesn't consume extra rage as far i know). And of course, all of this is with my crappy gear withouth bonus sets and withouth raid buffs (which should be there) or the like, because if i am trying to look at what to spec, i am going to do it myself.
Last point on this matter: it's assuming 100% Rend uptime, 0 wasted rage from TfB, and not including CS calcs, it's a lot closer if higher at all. Done talking about it though.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bHDSfZy.png)
