EPTI do agree we had more sense of community back then and your server actually mattered, but tbh I'll rather have LFD and get things done vs sit in orgrimmar spamming trade chat for a group for 3 hours to maybe get a blue drop, thanks.
WoW vanilla brainstorm - Page 19
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
I do agree we had more sense of community back then and your server actually mattered, but tbh I'll rather have LFD and get things done vs sit in orgrimmar spamming trade chat for a group for 3 hours to maybe get a blue drop, thanks. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On April 12 2016 00:32 malcram wrote: serious question regarding why couldn't blizzard have just said "we like what you've done, you've done a bloody good job. we'd like to officially own Nostalrius. we give you full autonomy, but we reserve the right to take you down at any moment. You (nostalrius) be transparent (regarding money/server costs whatever) with us and we don't mess with you." Because of number 1 in my post. And a lot of other reasons (not up to Blizzard's standards, not integrated with Battle.net, etc.) | ||
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malcram
2752 Posts
Think of it as a franchise. Sounds like a win-win to me. Needless to say, the servers will have to be subscription based for Blizzard to make money. | ||
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Endymion
United States3701 Posts
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
On April 11 2016 22:52 deth2munkies wrote: OK, you guys seem clueless enough that I'm going to have to explain this in detail, so long post time: blablabla tldr: your opinion. Please don't preface this by "you guys seem clueless enough" when all you do is recycling the same old crappy nostalgia argument and other pretty uninformed arguments. I am not going to argue that bringing back Vanilla would be profitable for them, atleast not to the degree they want every game to be profitable for them, but to me the real reason is because they don't want to admit that they fucked WoW so much over the last few years that a lot of people would prefer to play an old version of the game. They don't want to lose face. It's sad because even if it would not return that much money, it would really boost their image which really nowadays is not that great anymore. Overall shutting down private servers is a dick move if you have no intention of bringing back vanilla (or other versions) yourself. I could pick the exemple of everquest, where the devs decided to bring back official vanilla everquest servers. It's just a nice move to their community. Too bad activision-blizzard is way too big a corporation to do nice stuff like this anymore. | ||
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TanKLoveR
Venezuela838 Posts
So, I started twinking to farm all that rep before max level, first at 19 then at 29 and finally at 39, almost had exalted with WSG and was on my way to revered with AB, it was so much fun, I even found a 29 twink guild to do premades with, I mean that is completely nuts that Nostalrius had such a huge player base with so many diff interests that a guild could JUST BE a guild for level 29 twinks, with 30-40 active players we did premades for WSG and AB almost every day. Then as I was farming some stuff to make gold since I was going to be busy with the coming AB weekend, I found out the server was getting shut down  , was really heart breaking, all the work I had put into my new toon to finally see him to level 60 and have some fun pvping, was destroyed. I had tons of fun with my priest, the raids were super hard I'll say partly because you went oom rather quickly as a healer and I laughed that even though I would go do Scholo with T1 or T2 geared people we would still wipe once or twice. Some of these stuff were very unforgiving, you made one wrong move and you'll pull a whole room or a whole other pack of mobs that would wreck your party. To me that is fun, it makes it so you can't have brain dead people in the group or idiots who can't play their class, if you're no good you're getting kicked out and replaced pretty simple. Vanilla was fucking awesome I never played it back in retail (I started during tbc), but I loved this, I loved the slow leveling which gave way to so so many opportunities to meet people while doing dungeons to level up before the next area because there weren't enough quests in the previous one and you had to level up to do some of the follow up quests (I'm looking at you hillsbrad foothills). I even made some REALLY good friends while just fishing to make some gold because the stonescale eels would sell for quite a bit for someone starting out who had no gold lol, I pvp'd with those people, I pve'd with those people and made so many more friends doing "tedious" things that all these people bashing Vanilla for would never ever do or stop playing due to having to do them. I loved all of it, the good and the bad, it was fine because there was a huge community of people to do anything else with and it usually turned into a really great wow memory. I was not only working on my 2nd 60 to pvp with I was also working on a 3rd on ally side so I could have fun ganking horde players too  , it was REALLY REALLY fun to pvp on this server, something I can't say for Cataclysm (when I quit) which is a real shame. I'll always remember going to Duskwood with 2 other 29 rogue twinks and spending 3-4 hours ganking players there, so much fun, specially when the allies would get on some horde alt to bitch at you :D, never experienced something like that in retail, nost was really one of a kind.I'm looking for a new server, preferably one that won't get shut down next month before I get my rogue to max level to have some fun pvping, even if blizz makes these legacy servers I won't play in them, anything made by the current blizzard is babified for idiots and lazy people who "have a real life and don't have time for wow as it used to be", I don't know who's telling these people they have to play 10 hours a day to do shit in the game, I played 2-4 hours on week days and 6 on weekends and I had TONS of fun. The blizz that made great games like Wc2, Wc3, SC, SC:BW, Diablo and D2 no longest exists, so why bother play anything they make, it's been A LONG time since I bothered giving blizzard a dime and this only makes me not even bother with them any more. Hope everyone who played in Nost finds a good server to call home ^^ and enjoys the game once again, I know I will. | ||
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Andre
Slovenia3523 Posts
On April 12 2016 01:33 Endymion wrote: doesn't everquest have legacy servers? it's actually ridiculous how defensive blizzard is about anyone thinking vanilla/bc/wotlk is superior to retail.. You might be right, but when I last played(like 4years ago) I played on one of the private zek servers. Even if blizzard doesn't host older expansions it would still be great if the public has access to those older versions of WoW, if nothing else to build an archive. It's sad because even if it would not return that much money, it would really boost their image which really nowadays is not that great anymore. Overall shutting down private servers is a dick move if you have no intention of bringing back vanilla (or other versions) yourself. I could pick the exemple of everquest, where the devs decided to bring back official vanilla everquest servers. It's just a nice move to their community. Too bad activision-blizzard is way too big a corporation to do nice stuff like this anymore. Shutting down private servers that try to run a business is fine, and blizzard's right. Shutting down this one seems distasteful. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On April 12 2016 01:42 Roggay wrote: tldr: your opinion. Please don't preface this by "you guys seem clueless enough" when all you do is recycling the same old crappy nostalgia argument and other pretty uninformed arguments. I am not going to argue that bringing back Vanilla would be profitable for them, atleast not to the degree they want every game to be profitable for them, but to me the real reason is because they don't want to admit that they fucked WoW so much over the last few years that a lot of people would prefer to play an old version of the game. They don't want to lose face. It's sad because even if it would not return that much money, it would really boost their image which really nowadays is not that great anymore. Overall shutting down private servers is a dick move if you have no intention of bringing back vanilla (or other versions) yourself. I could pick the exemple of everquest, where the devs decided to bring back official vanilla everquest servers. It's just a nice move to their community. Too bad activision-blizzard is way too big a corporation to do nice stuff like this anymore. I'm allowed to say you're clueless when you say dumb stuff like that. Nobody at Blizzard thinks they fucked up WoW. Nobody at Blizzard thinks it's worse today than it was. Look at the interviews, look at everything they've ever said. They're proud of the game that they made, there's no face to lose. Just because a vocal minority on the internet and a tiny fraction of people who mostly don't play the game anymore prefer Vanilla private servers doesn't mean anything to them. Honestly, their image is great outside of the few echo chambers that tout nostalgia. You just enjoy sitting in those echo chambers and then pretending like everyone else outside agrees with you, which is a common fallacy of the internet. Vanilla servers would cost them a shitload of money for almost no return to satisfy a tiny fanbase that won't really be satisfied anyway. It's not worth it on any level. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 11 2016 22:52 deth2munkies wrote: 2) Building an official Vanilla/BC/Wrath/Cata server would take millions and millions of dollars to start and upkeep. I'm not going to pretend to fully understand how game coding works, but even I know enough to know that Blizzard has drastically changed not only their in-game files, but the server architecture running WoW and all their other games. Any developer worth their salt still has legacy versions of their code saved dating back to god knows when. On April 11 2016 22:52 deth2munkies wrote: That means in order to make a server on a previous expansion, they'd have to completely re-do everything about how those games connect to the Blizzard servers in addition to acquiring new servers to host them on, relocalizing everything (WoW wasn't in anywhere near as many countries then as it is now), and establishing a support network to monitor customer support, constantly update, and fix bugs. I've seen this argument before and I think it's bogus. There's no obligation for Blizzard to do anything to clean up Vanilla WoW like a modern game. They continue to maintain the servers for their other legacy titles without any of this stuff. Anyone who'd be interested in playing vanilla WoW knows what they're getting into, and there's not any requirement for Blizzard to do any of this supporting work for the product to satisfy these potential customers. On April 11 2016 22:52 deth2munkies wrote: All of that is on top of doing exactly what the private server guys have been doing and reverse-engineering the files, because it's likely they don't have all the Vanilla files archived anywhere because that's typically not what game companies do. No? Storage is cheap, it's pretty normal for software development companies to keep source code backed up far longer than it could ever conceivably be useful. It's far more likely than not that Blizzard still has the source code for vanilla WoW, assuming they're following conventional practices. | ||
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Andre
Slovenia3523 Posts
On April 12 2016 01:51 deth2munkies wrote: I'm allowed to say you're clueless when you say dumb stuff like that. Nobody at Blizzard thinks they fucked up WoW. Nobody at Blizzard thinks it's worse today than it was. Look at the interviews, look at everything they've ever said. They're proud of the game that they made, there's no face to lose. Just because a vocal minority on the internet and a tiny fraction of people who mostly don't play the game anymore prefer Vanilla private servers doesn't mean anything to them. Honestly, their image is great outside of the few echo chambers that tout nostalgia. You just enjoy sitting in those echo chambers and then pretending like everyone else outside agrees with you, which is a common fallacy of the internet. Vanilla servers would cost them a shitload of money for almost no return to satisfy a tiny fanbase that won't really be satisfied anyway. It's not worth it on any level. It would cost them as much as having the legacy blizzard team working, or less. Could probably even expand that team as that's already something they try to do - support legacy blizzard games. Yes, bnet1/d2/sc1/etc are much smaller compared to wow, but aside from a slightly bigger(at least for the needs of this small vanilla community) server base there's not much else to worry about. edit: that's a good point yango, blizzard still has the original alpha version of wow somewhere. there was a great retrospective video about wow I think by blizzard like 1-2 years ago which showcases it more in detail. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 12 2016 01:56 Andre wrote: edit: that's a good point yango, blizzard still has the original alpha version of wow somewhere. there was a great retrospective video about wow I think by blizzard like 1-2 years ago which showcases it more in detail. Honestly, I'd put money on Blizzard still having the source code for The Lost Vikings. Microsoft released their source code for MS-DOS like a year and a half ago, and that's from the early 80s. Software development companies don't just throw away their code because storage is so cheap that there's no meaningful cost associated with holding onto it. It's silly to say "that's typically not what game companies do" because it's far more unusual for a software company to throw away early version source code from a product that's still actively being supported (even if that version isn't). | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
On April 12 2016 01:51 deth2munkies wrote: You just enjoy sitting in those echo chambers and then pretending like everyone else outside agrees with you, which is a common fallacy of the internet. You really have some balls to spout shit like this after the crap you have been writing here pretending to school everybody. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On April 12 2016 02:04 Roggay wrote: You really have some balls to spout shit like this after the crap you have been writing here pretending to school everybody. I'm not the one claiming that everyone thinks that Vanilla is better than live and Blizzard knows they fucked up WoW so bad over the years that no one would ever play it, in spite of a mountain of evidence to the contrary. My only points are that it makes no business or legal sense to allow private servers to operate unmolested or to provide Vanilla servers of their own. While I don't have numbers because I'm not tight enough with either Blizzard or the private server people to give a conclusive answer, I think it's a good persuasive case. I'm not claiming that everyone thinks the way I do, nor am I claiming opinion as fact, and I'm even admitting I don't have the numbers to make the case conclusive. Honestly, it's really not worth my time to even respond to shit like this, I just am procrastinating doing other things and I find it an entertaining distraction. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10126 Posts
My only points are that it makes no business or legal sense to allow private servers to operate unmolested or to provide Vanilla servers of their own. How so ? It's free advertisment. And it is ussually good enough for people to jump at your superior and legal product. It's the same kind of stupid mistake GW has been doing for years in the miniature gaming market, shortening and shortening their ip's trails to keep it tight, and by doing so, losing their strong lead. It only makes sense to control their IP, but when you are using it to stop services which are not harming you and also alienating potential customers, is plain stupid. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On April 12 2016 03:05 Godwrath wrote: How so ? It's free advertisment. And it is ussually good enough for people to jump at your superior and legal product. It's the same kind of stupid mistake GW has been doing for years in the miniature gaming market, shortening and shortening their ip's trails to keep it tight, and by doing so, losing their strong lead. It only makes sense to control their IP, but when you are using it to stop services which are not harming you and also alienating potential customers, is plain stupid. Why do they need to advertise WoW? Everyone has heard of WoW, even non-gamers. The IP has gone on for 11 years and is still the biggest in their field. They don't need to spend millions of dollars in startup and upkeep for something a few thousand people (at most) would use. There's already a free trial for WoW (play up to lvl 30 IIRC), the Vanilla experience is more likely to turn off rather than turn on any newer gamers who aren't used to the old days when grind and inaccessibility was the rule rather than the exception, and the Vanilla servers do have a negative effect by letting people play WoW without a subscription, even if it is a different version. The last point is really the only one that's controversial, but I'd argue that even the people that say they wouldn't touch WoW anymore will get tempted from time to time to resub for a while (I know I do), and Vanilla private servers let them scratch the itch without paying Blizzard a dime. But I'd also posit (this is reaching moreso than the last statement) that most of those people who use the Vanilla servers as such wouldn't pay to play on them if they were offered for a sub by Blizzard. That's one of the real rubs with Blizzard making an official one, it's not just who will play, but who will pay to do so. And if people are playing the private servers but wouldn't pay for playing on official ones, that's really just straight up piracy. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
The number of players who would play a vanilla WoW server is small, but still would be significantly more than the lingering playerbases for D2, BW, and War3 (given how the vanilla WoW playerbase was orders of magnitude larger than those games) and Blizzard has no qualms continuing to maintain those servers. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On April 12 2016 03:26 TheYango wrote: I think you're vastly overestimating the cost necessary to set up and maintain a vanilla WoW server. If it took millions of dollars to set up, Nostalrius would never have gotten off the ground, since they very clearly don't have an operating budget on the order of millions of dollars, and unlike Blizzard don't have the original source code. Go back and read my original post on the subject, it explains why it's a lot more expensive for Blizzard than for some modders. | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
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Klowney
Sweden277 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 12 2016 03:28 deth2munkies wrote: Go back and read my original post on the subject, it explains why it's a lot more expensive for Blizzard than for some modders. I did and I already responded: On April 12 2016 01:52 TheYango wrote: I've seen this argument before and I think it's bogus. There's no obligation for Blizzard to do anything to clean up Vanilla WoW like a modern game. They continue to maintain the servers for their other legacy titles without any of this stuff. Anyone who'd be interested in playing vanilla WoW knows what they're getting into, and there's not any requirement for Blizzard to do any of this supporting work for the product to satisfy these potential customers. None of the things you say they "have" to do are things that anyone interested in vanilla WoW cares about or expects. | ||
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