EPTone reason why I really prefer pve realm is skipping the gankfest that is 30-40
WoW vanilla brainstorm - Page 18
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Meavis
Netherlands1300 Posts
one reason why I really prefer pve realm is skipping the gankfest that is 30-40 | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On October 18 2015 05:24 Meavis wrote: bit similar to pvp launch in terms of pop, but spawn rates seem slightly better. one reason why I really prefer pve realm is skipping the gankfest that is 30-40 yeah it sucks to pvp more than doing quests especially when playing with someone not fond of pvp, looks pretty cool. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
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Ryndika
1489 Posts
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Uranium
United States1077 Posts
Database: https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?npc=7428 Boss logs: https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?boss-kill=282292#bosskills_players:0 3 1 Armory: http://armory.twinstar.cz/character-sheet.xml?r=Kronos&cn=Apestoso | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
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Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
https://en.nostalrius.org/ | ||
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Gullis
Sweden740 Posts
But yeah I feel you, at first I thought it was just nostalgia telling me old wow was better but when you hit lvl 12-13 you could feel the old addiction creeping back. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
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Trozz
Canada3455 Posts
It was inevitable. IP is OP. | ||
zere
Germany1287 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
https://www.change.org/p/mike-morhaime-legacy-server-among-world-of-warcraft-community Kaelaris tweeting: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Q4UrW8k.jpg) https://twitter.com/intent/retweet?tweet_id=719448508420526080 Here is Blizzard's answer (yet): Big things going on in WoW community. This bad decision gonna cost Blizz and their upcoming Legion, ppl unsubbing. | ||
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valaki
Hungary2476 Posts
On the other hand, it's completely despicable and petty. Since the start of WoW, hundreds or even thousands of private servers existed, many with thousands of players. A lot of them were straight up P2W, as you got free epics when you bought credits and such. Some of them even hosted tournaments with thousands of $ prize money. Blizzard never cared, because in my opinion, they knew that their original product is better and bug free (it was, pretty much) and many people like me got bored with the bugs and went to the live servers and many people who did vice-versa got bored of the game and wouldn't pay the monthly payment anyway, so they played on private servers. Now the question is given, why now, and why Nostalrius? Personally, I only played for like a few days at the server because I don't have much free time anymore, despite Vanilla being my favourite content in WoW, but I had a really fun time with many people running around in the world, always finding groups for instances and such. I can see how it launched with an already awesome 6k player base which doubled in a year (and by players, I mean online players at a time, not "active" plaíyers, which were much more than 10-15k). Nostalrius was completely F2P with no buy-in option, as far as I know. It was 1x rate, meaning as close to retail servers as possible. 10-15k online players rivaled even the most popular retail WoW servers, but I think it's easily worth more than 2 High pop servers. Nostalrius players were not a potential playerbase at all, because Vanilla is long gone, and these players wanted to play Vanilla exclusively. I think most of these players WERE once active WoW subscribers but got bored of the game or didn't find the direction of the game satisfying or just wanted to relive their 10+ years old cherished Wow memories from Vanilla. There were and still are lots of naysaysers who say Vanilla is gone and the current Wow is better because it's not tedious as hell and it's just Nostalgia. The player numbers however prove otherwise. I don't know the intentions behind Blizzard's actions, but I'd like to think that they got salty. They stopped reporting the number of active subscribers since their last report, but everyone can guess that it's still declining. I don't think the x thousand active players mattered much to Blizzard, since during the years, I think millions of players tried private servers. I'd really like to think that someone at Blizzard got jealous/angry when seeing these many thousand players having genuine fun while playing a game which Blizzard has long forgotten. That a private server, after 12 years got them so mad, that they needed a lawsuit to get it cancelled, while they haven't bothered with Molten or Arena tournament a few years ago when they had even more active players than Nostalrius. Because this justifies my decision to never give another cent to Blizzard, ever. And this has been going on for 9 years. Make no mistake, I still play and love their games. Warcraft 3, Diablo 2 and Brood War of course and I occasionally play some at Wrath or BC private servers, but their past-Activision merge portfolio? Not a chance. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
tl;dr - Blizzard has to shut down these servers or it's bad for them legally, your nostalgia goggles are blinding you to how bad Vanilla is by today's standards, and Blizzard will never, ever make money on doing this because of high startup and maintenance costs. 1) To defend their IP, Blizzard has to take these servers down. If they don't, then eventually people can start asserting reliance defenses against them if they do eventually try to shut them down. It's basically the legal equivalent of, "Well you let THEM do it, so why can't I?" and that's an actual thing in law. This is a vast oversimplification, but suffice it to say that if Blizzard doesn't take action, it's very bad for them under copyright law. "But aren't there a lot of other private servers Blizzard knows about?" Sure, but they don't have all the information they need to mount an airtight case against them, it actually requires a ton of research, time, and money to establish a case even for something that seems as obvious as running a private server. They can't possibly shut them all down, so they have to choose their targets carefully as to not overextend. That won't weigh against them in court the way simply ignoring them altogether or tacitly acknowledging their legitimacy will. 2) Building an official Vanilla/BC/Wrath/Cata server would take millions and millions of dollars to start and upkeep. I'm not going to pretend to fully understand how game coding works, but even I know enough to know that Blizzard has drastically changed not only their in-game files, but the server architecture running WoW and all their other games. That means in order to make a server on a previous expansion, they'd have to completely re-do everything about how those games connect to the Blizzard servers in addition to acquiring new servers to host them on, relocalizing everything (WoW wasn't in anywhere near as many countries then as it is now), and establishing a support network to monitor customer support, constantly update, and fix bugs. All of that is on top of doing exactly what the private server guys have been doing and reverse-engineering the files, because it's likely they don't have all the Vanilla files archived anywhere because that's typically not what game companies do. The upkeep of hiring additional staff specifically to deal with those servers alone makes it not worth it for them, as it's different enough as to be basically a different game from WoW now, so you'd need an entirely dedicated staff for each expansion's servers. Even if they charged standard sub rates, these servers would be money-losers. Combine that with the fact that WoW subs as a whole are on the decline and there's really no reason for them to throw this much risk into a title that's starting to wane after 11 years. 3) Everything you loved about Vanilla is gone and never coming back. The reason why Vanilla WoW was so good at the time was that it took the best parts of existing MMOs like Everquest and Star Wars Galaxies, threw them into a world that we loved (Warcraft), and made it a unique experience by having questing drive the story and progression. Going back to it now is just going back to a worse version of a game that we've been playing for 11 years. All the luster is gone, the newness has been outdone by countless titles since and WoW itself. All of the systems of questing, class balance, raid difficulty, etc, are all inferior to pretty much every other game on the market today and even WoW itself. The best things about Vanilla WoW were exploring the world, finding new stuff for the first time, and doing cool lore related things with characters that you'd seen in other games. Now, the world has been explored to death, there's nothing left to find with WoWhead and countless other online tools, and we've gotten so used to lore characters that we barely flinch when they show up. Going back in time and playing the game as it was doesn't fix any of that. It may be nostalgic for a while, but when you hit max level and start to remember how painful it used to be just to grind enough to be useful in raids and how simplistic and conceptually easy the bosses were back then, you'll quit pretty quickly. And you won't be alone, while those servers have a pretty consistently high population, there's massive turnover. People are coming in and out all the time, and the vast majority don't hit max level unless there's some mechanism in the server to boost XP or buy 60s. That ties back into the fact that Blizzard won't be able to make money on these servers, because you have to cut that big number down to the number of people who'd actually pay for it (since it's F2P), then cut it again by those that will stay month after month to cover the maintenance costs. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
Stop telling people what the want/don't want, because chances are the people who have been playing nostalrius for months probably know just how much they enjoy vanilla, and don't need someone writing paragraphs of shit about nostalgia. 2) Building an official Vanilla/BC/Wrath/Cata server would take millions and millions of dollars to start and upkeep. I'm not going to pretend to fully understand how game coding works these two sentences in consecutive order are funny.Just by the way, subs are on the decline because the game is complete shit. This was a horrible decision, and if a group of 20 or so people can put together a private server with a stable population probably larger then most high pop current servers, then I'd be willing to put money that blizzard could re-discover some old files. | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
Most trash fights we have now are more interesting than most boss fights in tier1 and 2. Lot of the difficulty came with tackling the shitty raid UI, imagine modern raid tools ported to vanilla content. Yea, it would be no challenge at all. And someone would do it, there'd be a WeakAuras vanilla version and someone would make a bossmod support as well and there you go, that one or 2 abilities the bosses had back then on a huge timer wouldn't hold a candle to first trash pull in HFC at this time. Oh and 40 man raid size, yuck. Good luck keeping up with recruiting to keep raiding with that. Not to mention there was 0 catch up mechanics. If you were raiding tier 2 or 2.5 and had to recruit someone, you needed to recruit someone with existing gear. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On April 11 2016 23:40 bo1b wrote: Other business fields must be salty about how strongly the modern gaming community comes to the defence of shitty games. Stop telling people what the want/don't want, because chances are the people who have been playing nostalrius for months probably know just how much they enjoy vanilla, and don't need someone writing paragraphs of shit about nostalgia. these two sentences in consecutive order are funny. Just by the way, subs are on the decline because the game is complete shit. This was a horrible decision, and if a group of 20 or so people can put together a private server with a stable population probably larger then most high pop current servers, then I'd be willing to put money that blizzard could re-discover some old files. You don't have to fully understand game coding to know that it'd be a massive undertaking. Subs are on the decline because of a combination of the game being old and not measuring up to newer games in terms of graphical fidelity and gameplay and the fact that the sub-based MMO is a dying genre as a whole with the rise of F2P and B2P. I already told you why the other things you say in this post are incorrect and/or dumb, but here it is again for those who couldn't be bothered to read. The actual number of people on the server is deceptively high because of a combination of high turnover (the people that play typically don't play for long) and it being F2P. They don't have the code because that's not how video game companies work, and the 20 people running the server have a much tinier job than Blizzard would if they made the server. | ||
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Andre
Slovenia3523 Posts
On April 11 2016 23:40 daemir wrote: Vanilla was fun because we didn't know wtf we were doing. Now we would know everything we're doing. The consumable grind back then was several leagues harsher than now, let's remember that vanilla didn't really limit you in consumables used in combat aside from their cooldowns and if memory doesn't completely fail me, you could run a flask + elixirs at the same time on top of using potions on cooldown and things like whipper root tubers (have fun farming THOSE, ha!). Elixirs would fade on death. Most trash fights we have now are more interesting than most boss fights in tier1 and 2. Lot of the difficulty came with tackling the shitty raid UI, imagine modern raid tools ported to vanilla content. Yea, it would be no challenge at all. And someone would do it, there'd be a WeakAuras vanilla version and someone would make a bossmod support as well and there you go, that one or 2 abilities the bosses had back then on a huge timer wouldn't hold a candle to first trash pull in HFC at this time. Oh and 40 man raid size, yuck. Good luck keeping up with recruiting to keep raiding with that. Not to mention there was 0 catch up mechanics. If you were raiding tier 2 or 2.5 and had to recruit someone, you needed to recruit someone with existing gear. You're partially correct. Even back then people used CTframe? I think it was called, it had a lot of nifty features which eased the raiding experience. There was also "wow alkhazam" or something like that, I can't remember anymore, it was basically the vanilla version of wowhead. Most people were very noob though, and that's why it made the experience so interesting. But it wasn't just that, no LFG, no flying mounts, reliance on other people for certain travel(mages/warlocks/engineers), quests generallly being harder and requiring groups, etc. These things added to the "community" feeling and the experience of an actual WORLD, I think these two things are the most important I miss from vanilla. The shitty UI and systems were shitty, and when you look at them individually you don't see many benefits to having them in the game but together they basically "forced" you to be part of the community. I know that after early TBC the community aspect of the servers was gone. In vanilla I'd know most of the players by name and you'd have like 10-20 people on the server who everyone relied on for crafting certain things etc. Also, you had douchebags, people nobody liked etc. Reputation actually meant something. The actual number of people on the server is deceptively high because of a combination of high turnover (the people that play typically don't play for long) and it being F2P. They don't have the code because that's not how video game companies work, and the 20 people running the server have a much tinier job than Blizzard would if they made the server. A lot of people don't play on these servers because they're private as well, take that into account as well. Also I doubt blizzard trashed their old versions of wow, EQ1 is much older than WoW and it still has private servers running based on those original ones. Also, I don't think the people had an easy job. Most of the scripting, they had to do on their own. Just look at every private server, there's so many bugs and glitches around it barely resembles anything blizzard ever rolled out. This server was quite the exception. | ||
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malcram
2752 Posts
2) Building an official Vanilla/BC/Wrath/Cata server would take millions and millions of dollars to start and upkeep. I'm not going to pretend to fully understand how game coding works why couldn't blizzard have just said "we like what you've done, you've done a bloody good job. we'd like to officially own Nostalrius. we give you full autonomy, but we reserve the right to take you down at any moment. You (nostalrius) be transparent (regarding money/server costs whatever) with us and we don't mess with you." | ||
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Andre
Slovenia3523 Posts
I do wonder why blizzard just doesn't host like 2-3 servers, and see what happens. If a small comunity emerges let it stay, I mean blizzard has always been known for supporting their older titles far beyond the call of duty. | ||
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