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On November 29 2017 18:33 PoulsenB wrote:
I hope they fix the HRE in the patch 1.24 because I'm 140 years into my Castille-into-Spain campaign and the emperor hadn't once demanded the return of unlawful territory (a known bug with CoC) or went to war to enforce religious unity (dunno if a known bug, but weird nonetheless). As a result almost all of the HRE converted to Protestant or Reformed and then in the league war Catholics got crushed (I stayed out of it because I don't like to get mixed up in the HRE stuff if I'm not a part of it). I can't remember seeing something like that before CoC.
I can't remember a patch when the ai emperor knew how to get the HRE going. It's always reducing the gains and just doing random ai stuff. I've seen the catholics lose the league war several times, I would guess it's about 70-30 for catholics in my unrepresentative experience. However, staying out of it is the best option for huge gains. The league war rips apart so many alliances, it's the perfect time to strike.
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I mean the AI Emperor is pretty ass, but I can't remember them not once going to war to enforce religious unity once the reformation starts... but maybe my popup settings were fucked up again and I didn't see it xd
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I think making EU balanced is wrong.
EU should be historical, not balanced. A strong military like France an Ottoman should be able to easily destroy other nations in land wars. Their only weakness should be weakness that they showed historically.
Buffing african nations nations and nerfing the historical strongest does nothing for the gsme. What's the achievement of beating ottos if they are weak? Or a WC with a sub-saharian nation if they were bought to the same level?
When you perform something that goes a lot against what seemed possible historically it should feel like a miracle. And lots of planning that old kings couldn't have going well. You already have cheats compared to historical leaders, you don't need balance.
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On November 29 2017 20:06 nimbim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2017 18:33 PoulsenB wrote:
I hope they fix the HRE in the patch 1.24 because I'm 140 years into my Castille-into-Spain campaign and the emperor hadn't once demanded the return of unlawful territory (a known bug with CoC) or went to war to enforce religious unity (dunno if a known bug, but weird nonetheless). As a result almost all of the HRE converted to Protestant or Reformed and then in the league war Catholics got crushed (I stayed out of it because I don't like to get mixed up in the HRE stuff if I'm not a part of it). I can't remember seeing something like that before CoC. I can't remember a patch when the ai emperor knew how to get the HRE going. It's always reducing the gains and just doing random ai stuff. I've seen the catholics lose the league war several times, I would guess it's about 70-30 for catholics in my unrepresentative experience. However, staying out of it is the best option for huge gains. The league war rips apart so many alliances, it's the perfect time to strike.
I had this happen too, austria willingly converted to protestant and bohemia formed the holy roman empire by decision
never seen that in my life
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On November 30 2017 08:57 TMG26 wrote:
I think making EU balanced is wrong.
EU should be historical, not balanced. A strong military like France an Ottoman should be able to easily destroy other nations in land wars. Their only weakness should be weakness that they showed historically.
Buffing african nations nations and nerfing the historical strongest does nothing for the gsme. What's the achievement of beating ottos if they are weak? Or a WC with a sub-saharian nation if they were bought to the same level?
When you perform something that goes a lot against what seemed possible historically it should feel like a miracle. And lots of planning that old kings couldn't have going well. You already have cheats compared to historical leaders, you don't need balance.
I agree but unfortunately this seems like an outdated view to the rest of the player base. History aside I don't like the nerf since I learned a lot from playing the Ottoman start but now they're easily boxed in after 20-30 years.
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I dont think many EU players want countries equal strenght. They just want game fair. And sometimes it just feel so ridiculous that You cant believe Your eyes.
I just lost 60k vs 20k battle as Aragon vs France. I am salty. Equal tech 5, 100% discipline both sides. No terrain bonuses. No ideas. Equal shock on generals.
Yeah i know that You are not supposed to fight vs France or Otto early. I just thought 3v1 in numbers is enough. I was wrong. I have enough for some time.
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On December 01 2017 07:28 Silvanel wrote:
I dont think many EU players want countries equal strenght. They just want game fair. And sometimes it just feel so ridiculous that You cant believe Your eyes.
I just lost 60k vs 20k battle as Aragon vs France. I am salty. Equal tech 5, 100% discipline both sides. No terrain bonuses. No ideas. Equal shock on generals.
Yeah i know that You are not supposed to fight vs France or Otto early. I just thought 3v1 in numbers is enough. I was wrong. I have enough for some time.
I mean i just lost a game where with 3x the ottomans numbers austria/hungary/poland/lithuania still lost
fair game
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In my game it's 1621 and Ottos already have over 200k troops, plus they are starting to blob quite a bit in all directions. Which sucks because I wanted to form the Roman Empire and they hold like over a half of the land I need for it.
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I personally dont have problem with late game Otto or France or anyone for that matter. Its the early game thats the problem.
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Any tips on quickly dismantling a big opponent like the Ottos?
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On December 01 2017 07:28 Silvanel wrote:
I dont think many EU players want countries equal strenght. They just want game fair. And sometimes it just feel so ridiculous that You cant believe Your eyes.
I just lost 60k vs 20k battle as Aragon vs France. I am salty. Equal tech 5, 100% discipline both sides. No terrain bonuses. No ideas. Equal shock on generals.
Yeah i know that You are not supposed to fight vs France or Otto early. I just thought 3v1 in numbers is enough. I was wrong. I have enough for some time.
Gotta watch the rolls. Early on combat width is fairly low. France was probably able to fill the complete width. If they roll sth. ridiculous like 9:0 in the first shock phase their superior morale will completely destroy you and morale damage carries over even to the units that are not fighting. By the time your superior numbers come to the front lines they're already low on morale.
When combat width is so low you gotta split the army and send in the reinforcements manually (and staggered obviously).
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On December 01 2017 18:36 PoulsenB wrote:
Any tips on quickly dismantling a big opponent like the Ottos?
Only works on the Ottos:
1. Ally everyone and their mother.
2. no CB Byzantium, occupy them
3. wait for Otto to declare on Byz (might have to delay capturing constantinople to bait Otto into pulling the trigger)
4. vassalize Byz, get dragged into defensive war against Otto
5. call everyone and their mothers into the war
6. stomp otto
7. take land off otto using byz coring range
8. profit
If you want to completely wipe out Otto you can try building spy network on the balkan nations that otto tends to guarantee
and immediately claim and declare as soon as possible (make sure Otto is willing to join). This way you can either take another 50% off otto or white peace him out for a 5 year truce (as opposed to the 15 year one you'd have else).
If you know how to pull off island traps you can easily crush otto too.
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Quickly? Not really. Occupying and waiting for rebels to break up country doesnt work well with Otto since they regain manpower so quickly.
I would say the most important thing is to chose correct casus belli and time to strike. Dont chose Imperialism/HUmilation if You cant take Constatinopole. If You fight holy war dont split Your stacks too much and risk wipes. Be sure to be at least on par with mil tech, have decent gens. Activate Your mil policies, have correct advisor (discipline or morale). Dont siege too many forts at once. Choose battle ground (terrain) wisely. Wars with Otto are usually long, especialy if You want to get high score. Its good to have active spy in Otto at start of war.
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On December 01 2017 18:49 nothingmuch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 18:36 PoulsenB wrote:
Any tips on quickly dismantling a big opponent like the Ottos? Only works on the Ottos: 1. Ally everyone and their mother. 2. no CB Byzantium, occupy them 3. wait for Otto to declare on Byz (might have to delay capturing constantinople to bait Otto into pulling the trigger) 4. vassalize Byz, get dragged into defensive war against Otto 5. call everyone any their mothers into the war 6. stomp otto 7. take land off otto using byz coring range 8. profit
Nice stuff, thanks. How about dealing with them in mid to lategame?
On December 01 2017 18:55 Silvanel wrote:
Quickly? Not really. Occupying and waiting for rebels to break up country doesnt work well with Otto since they regain manpower so quickly.
I would say the most important thing is to chose correct casus belli and time to strike. Dont chose Imperialism/HUmilation if You cant take Constatinopole. If You fight holy war dont split Your stacks too much and risk wipes. Be sure to be at least on par with mil tech, have decent gens. Activate Your mil policies, have correct advisor (discipline or morale). Dont siege too many forts at once. Choose battle ground (terrain) wisely. Wars with Otto are usually long, especialy if You want to get high score. Its good to have active spy in Otto at start of war.
Even better stuff, thanks 
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On December 01 2017 18:56 PoulsenB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 18:49 nothingmuch wrote:On December 01 2017 18:36 PoulsenB wrote:
Any tips on quickly dismantling a big opponent like the Ottos? Only works on the Ottos: 1. Ally everyone and their mother. 2. no CB Byzantium, occupy them 3. wait for Otto to declare on Byz (might have to delay capturing constantinople to bait Otto into pulling the trigger) 4. vassalize Byz, get dragged into defensive war against Otto 5. call everyone any their mothers into the war 6. stomp otto 7. take land off otto using byz coring range 8. profit Nice stuff, thanks. How about dealing with them in mid to lategame?
They're not that strong in lategame- their units are only op in early/mid and their janissary events turn bad once they're past 1650. Frankly you should be big enough to kick their ass in lategame.
Midgame it's a question of who you're playing as- Christians have the option of getting allies that hate/can handle Otto, everyone else is pretty screwed (the next nation to the east or south that poses a threat to Otto in the mid game is Ming, lol). If Otto hasn't taken all the land connected islands in the Mediterranean you can island trap them if your Navy is strong enough.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
If you don't aim for WC, but just for breaking Ottos/France/some other Big Bad, choosing appropriate idea groups can really help. When fighting mid-lategame, you generally want to be able to field at least double the combat width of troops, preferably 1.5 times that. At that point, the amount of troops you can field becomes way less important.
Generally the most powerful idea combo for breaking large nations is Offensive, Quality, Economic, Innovative. Run all 4 policies during the war. Overall you get insane amount of bonuses like +15% discipline, +30% inf combat ability, +20% cannon combat ability and 30% siege speed. True, you miss out on some of the strongest perks like Admin, Diplo, Influence or Exploration, but if whatever you want to achieve is going to require just breaking a massive superpower in the mid-lategame, I recommend you try out this combo. It's fun stackwiping 30k+ Ottomen in combat.
Another way is to get tech 15 something like 10 years ahead of time. That can allow you to break a superpower in half too. +1 Base morale is just an insane bonus at that point in time.
Army Professionalism as a mechanic probably helps a lot too. I managed to get 90% army proff at about 1570, which is far ahead of all AIs. Didn't even drill that much, as I was on a constant warpath (2K development Ramazan).
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I'm playing as Spain and I'm the biggest Great Power in the world in 1621, so I'll just need to catch up with my force limit, manpower, and wait for mil tech 19 (wiki says it's the one where Anatolian units become worse than Western ones); I have Quality ideas and am currently working on Offensive ideas as well. I have a strong Commonwealth as an ally so it should be doable. Thank you guys for all your tips
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On December 01 2017 06:25 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2017 08:57 TMG26 wrote:
I think making EU balanced is wrong.
EU should be historical, not balanced. A strong military like France an Ottoman should be able to easily destroy other nations in land wars. Their only weakness should be weakness that they showed historically.
Buffing african nations nations and nerfing the historical strongest does nothing for the gsme. What's the achievement of beating ottos if they are weak? Or a WC with a sub-saharian nation if they were bought to the same level?
When you perform something that goes a lot against what seemed possible historically it should feel like a miracle. And lots of planning that old kings couldn't have going well. You already have cheats compared to historical leaders, you don't need balance. I agree but unfortunately this seems like an outdated view to the rest of the player base. History aside I don't like the nerf since I learned a lot from playing the Ottoman start but now they're easily boxed in after 20-30 years.
To be completely honest my most memorable games in HOI4 has been games where I've played with historical focuses off. So in the end, i want something between historical accuracy and "anything can happen".
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
While it's true that your units have more pips past mil tech 19, the pips on your units matter surprisingly little. If I understand it correctly, having 1 more pip in every category has the equal effect of... having 1 more fire and 1 more shock pip on your general. Which is quite underwhelming.
Meanwhile, something as quiet and enigmatic as +0.80 shock on cavalry has a massive effect, at least early on. Going from 1.2 shock to 2.0 just straight up increases the damage your cav deals in shock phase by 80%. The biggest advantage from mil tech difference come first in extra morale, second in tactics, third in the extra multipliers like +1.0 fire for artillery, and least importantly in unit types. Which is kind of disappointing, because upgrading into a new unit type feels like it should be a big advantage, when it's not.
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Does anyone know which diplomatic reputation Denmark will look at when I declare on Lithuania? Poland is senior partner in the union with Lithuania. When I want to declare on Poland, Denmark seems to dishonor their alliance with Poland, but if I want to declare on Lithuania, it seems like they will honor the alliance. Which one is it?
+ Show Spoiler [1.2 MB] +
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/ZcNzdmX.jpg)
