• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:51
CEST 22:51
KST 05:51
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview4[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)5Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview5
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 18-25): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League4Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double0Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview Weekly Cups (May 18-25): MaxPax wins doubles herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 527 Hell Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 526 Rubber and Glue Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
Pros React To: ASL S21 Finals BW General Discussion Very long shot - StarCraft x A7X video Pros React to: TvT Masterclass in FlaSh vs Light vespene.gg — BW replays in browser
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Dating: How's your luck? European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development streaming software
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Customization Drives Loyalty…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3531 users

Total War: Rome II - Page 70

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 68 69 70 71 72 104 Next
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14137 Posts
September 11 2013 14:50 GMT
#1381
On September 11 2013 23:25 TSORG wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2013 09:06 rezoacken wrote:
On September 11 2013 08:54 TSORG wrote:
seems like theyre definitely are going into the direction of console release.

it all points to that,

arcade style fast battles with capture the flag instead of tactical set ups.
more special actions and less focus on formations etc
pov camera and already experimenting with fps style control of siege equipment (so units will no doubt follow)
more streamlined and stripped campaign.
less buildings in the tech tree
system optimization, aka a good pc is no longer needed.


Sorry but as much as I am disapointed by this release I really don't buy that explanation some try to put forward. The game is poorly polished and many features are missing or bad. For both consoles and PC.

It isn't a Diablo 3 where everything was working smoothly but some stuff where designed with a console port, gamepad in mind, (like the 6 skills thing); it's a poorly optimized/polished game with lots of bugs, period.


i didnt mean this particular game, but rather near future tw releases. but who knows.

As soon as darthmod comes out all the problems in the game ends.

They really should hire darth vader. He clearly knows more about good game design then all of CA.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
FliedLice
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany7494 Posts
September 11 2013 15:01 GMT
#1382
On September 11 2013 23:50 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2013 23:25 TSORG wrote:
On September 11 2013 09:06 rezoacken wrote:
On September 11 2013 08:54 TSORG wrote:
seems like theyre definitely are going into the direction of console release.

it all points to that,

arcade style fast battles with capture the flag instead of tactical set ups.
more special actions and less focus on formations etc
pov camera and already experimenting with fps style control of siege equipment (so units will no doubt follow)
more streamlined and stripped campaign.
less buildings in the tech tree
system optimization, aka a good pc is no longer needed.


Sorry but as much as I am disapointed by this release I really don't buy that explanation some try to put forward. The game is poorly polished and many features are missing or bad. For both consoles and PC.

It isn't a Diablo 3 where everything was working smoothly but some stuff where designed with a console port, gamepad in mind, (like the 6 skills thing); it's a poorly optimized/polished game with lots of bugs, period.


i didnt mean this particular game, but rather near future tw releases. but who knows.

As soon as darthmod comes out all the problems in the game ends.

They really should hire darth vader. He clearly knows more about good game design then all of CA.


Didn't he retire from modding Total War games?

I think I remember some PC Gamer article.
Kevmeister @ Dota2
Otolia
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
France5805 Posts
September 11 2013 15:11 GMT
#1383
On September 11 2013 23:50 Sermokala wrote:They really should hire darth vader. He clearly knows more about good game design then all of CA.

Darth_Mod was never the best mod out there, it was just a well rounded Battle and Campaign AI. Empire, Napoleon and Shogun were pretty limited in regards to mod because CA didn't released any to help the modders nor did they want to. And in that sense, mods for Medieval II and Rome were immensely more interesting than any mods for the following games.

My personal favorites Deus Lo Vult, Stainless Steel and Europa Barbarorum are far more complete than anything Darth ever made. Besides, the fellow is working on its personal game or so I've heard.

Right now, Radious is doing some small AI adjustement so you can enjoy vanilla with bleeding your eyes out.
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
September 11 2013 15:23 GMT
#1384
On September 11 2013 22:52 Zuxo wrote:
Yeah I don't understand this day 1 DLC. Like I can understand if it is a unit skin or something. But to have something gameplay related purposely removed from the game at launch is such a dick move, yet still people buy it at launch. No wonder the gaming industry has declined so much in quality when developers can release broken games and people still buy it.

Day 1 DLC is a lure to get people to buy it before they realize it's actually going to be garbage for the next 6 months and they should have just saved their money for the inevitable steam sale. In the case of Rome 2 it worked flawlessly
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14137 Posts
September 11 2013 15:44 GMT
#1385
On September 12 2013 00:01 FliedLice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2013 23:50 Sermokala wrote:
On September 11 2013 23:25 TSORG wrote:
On September 11 2013 09:06 rezoacken wrote:
On September 11 2013 08:54 TSORG wrote:
seems like theyre definitely are going into the direction of console release.

it all points to that,

arcade style fast battles with capture the flag instead of tactical set ups.
more special actions and less focus on formations etc
pov camera and already experimenting with fps style control of siege equipment (so units will no doubt follow)
more streamlined and stripped campaign.
less buildings in the tech tree
system optimization, aka a good pc is no longer needed.


Sorry but as much as I am disapointed by this release I really don't buy that explanation some try to put forward. The game is poorly polished and many features are missing or bad. For both consoles and PC.

It isn't a Diablo 3 where everything was working smoothly but some stuff where designed with a console port, gamepad in mind, (like the 6 skills thing); it's a poorly optimized/polished game with lots of bugs, period.


i didnt mean this particular game, but rather near future tw releases. but who knows.

As soon as darthmod comes out all the problems in the game ends.

They really should hire darth vader. He clearly knows more about good game design then all of CA.


Didn't he retire from modding Total War games?

I think I remember some PC Gamer article.

He retiered yeah after CA wouldn't even hire him on as a game tester beacuse he "had no experience". but then he came back after beacuse he still liked the game.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
aXa
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
France748 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-11 16:01:34
September 11 2013 15:52 GMT
#1386
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/09/21/darthmod-creator-retires/

Indeed

Edit: Words from Darth Vader himself on TWcenter in september 2012:

I know, I do not have an "original" approach to modding, as you call it, but with this last reply, I am certainly out of Total War modding for good. Fair well, and you better do not mess up RTW2 gameplay because I think most of the modders will not be able to help you out.


Edit2: Found on TWcenter

http://s2.postimg.org/4np198gop/Untitled_2.png
BliptiX
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada324 Posts
September 11 2013 15:54 GMT
#1387
You are currently unable to play the multiplayer campaign with a friend if only one of you have the DLC and are using the DLC factions. I wasted a few hours figuring out what was a simple google search since I thought it may have been the mods I was using being incompatible.

SCkad
Profile Joined March 2012
Scotland97 Posts
September 11 2013 18:22 GMT
#1388
Ok i have a question, since everyone hates the capture point system, how would you try and deal with the "can't catch the last unit until the time runs out" exploit?

i personally don't see a feasible alternative
To hell with it
daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
September 11 2013 18:37 GMT
#1389
When is that even a problem? When it's 1 unit vs 1 unit and the other is faster. Solution, don't fight with just 1 unit?

If you have 2 or more, you can eventually drive the AI into a corner and engage it.
aXa
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
France748 Posts
September 11 2013 18:39 GMT
#1390
On September 12 2013 03:37 daemir wrote:
When is that even a problem? When it's 1 unit vs 1 unit and the other is faster. Solution, don't fight with just 1 unit?

If you have 2 or more, you can eventually drive the AI into a corner and engage it.


It's the other way around. The human player run with 1 cav and AI never catch up.
rezoacken
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2719 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-11 19:01:04
September 11 2013 18:56 GMT
#1391
On September 11 2013 22:22 Godwrath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2013 21:08 Sayle wrote:
I went back to play some Shogun 2 with Darthmod and I have to say, I'm enjoying it a lot more than Rome 2. It's a real shame.

Shogun 2 at release was also quite a mess, and the corrupted saves bug annoyed the crap out of me.

I am using the "don't preorder and don't buy on release day" if i am not 100% the game is what i want. I just called some of those who travel the seven seas and tested it. I will buy it when it is on a better shape and a better price, because i know in a
year or a bit more, the game will be amazing. But i am fucking tired of games that get out for sale on a obvious unfinished state.


Shogun 2 at release had some performance issue and bugs but it was WAY MORE polished than Rome 2, there's not even a debate there; Shogun 2 was probably the best CA release ever, in its vanilla state, in my opinion. I used to thought to myself: "CA learned from their mistakes and start releasing (almost) finished material now". Guess I was wrong, Rome 2 will take weeks of patchs to be in an acceptable states (if ever).

The real downfall of Shogun 2 and why many dont like it is that the scope of the game is very limited (and modability not being great doesn't help), but most of it was better than other CA releases. Rome 2 was supposed to be just as good as Shogun but with the added grand scope of ancient Europe. But they seriously failed.


On September 12 2013 00:11 Otolia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2013 23:50 Sermokala wrote:They really should hire darth vader. He clearly knows more about good game design then all of CA.

Darth_Mod was never the best mod out there, it was just a well rounded Battle and Campaign AI. Empire, Napoleon and Shogun were pretty limited in regards to mod because CA didn't released any to help the modders nor did they want to. And in that sense, mods for Medieval II and Rome were immensely more interesting than any mods for the following games.

My personal favorites Deus Lo Vult, Stainless Steel and Europa Barbarorum are far more complete than anything Darth ever made. Besides, the fellow is working on its personal game or so I've heard.

Right now, Radious is doing some small AI adjustement so you can enjoy vanilla with bleeding your eyes out.


Yeah but the mod you cite are major overhaul. The strength of Darth Mods where that they were mainly balance mod, not changing the game too much from vanilla but trying to make it more fun/balanced.

On September 12 2013 03:22 SCkad wrote:
Ok i have a question, since everyone hates the capture point system, how would you try and deal with the "can't catch the last unit until the time runs out" exploit?

i personally don't see a feasible alternative


I understand the exploit and have used it once in my life but really how is that even an issue if some people want to have long ass lame battles where you move your general in circle for 15min ?
I certainly don't give a crap about other people exploiting a solo game rofl.

If that's an issue in MP, just put the flag there.
Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
RolleMcKnolle
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany1054 Posts
September 11 2013 19:00 GMT
#1392
then implement a mechanic of no unit deaths in x amount of time -> draw. meaning no one loses any units in the retreat and the defender withdraws from that place on campaign map or something like that. Its not that hard to think of something.
TigerKarl
Profile Joined November 2010
1757 Posts
September 11 2013 19:00 GMT
#1393
Radious will likely fill the gap that Darthmod leaves behind.
daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
September 11 2013 20:04 GMT
#1394
On September 12 2013 03:39 aXa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 12 2013 03:37 daemir wrote:
When is that even a problem? When it's 1 unit vs 1 unit and the other is faster. Solution, don't fight with just 1 unit?

If you have 2 or more, you can eventually drive the AI into a corner and engage it.


It's the other way around. The human player run with 1 cav and AI never catch up.


Well, don't abuse it? From what I've seen and read, you hardly need to cheese to kill this AI :D
Jindo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1305 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-11 20:50:58
September 11 2013 20:49 GMT
#1395
On September 12 2013 03:22 SCkad wrote:
Ok i have a question, since everyone hates the capture point system, how would you try and deal with the "can't catch the last unit until the time runs out" exploit?

i personally don't see a feasible alternative

Yes some BM dicks online likes to run their skirmishers around the map until the timer runs out. Perhaps they can make the flag appear when a sizable portion of the enemy force had been killed?

But the AI just can't use the feature properly, sometimes they'll put some of their most powerful unit away from the frontline to guard flags that I have no intention of recapturing, sometimes they'll just charge the flag with no tactic whatsoever.
AI charging flag at 3:00
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9852 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-11 21:07:14
September 11 2013 21:06 GMT
#1396
proposal:
If a unit hasn't been killed in 15 minutes the flag appears
RIP Meatloaf <3
rezoacken
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2719 Posts
September 11 2013 21:21 GMT
#1397
Hi everyone,

We’ve just put up a hotfix that significantly improves campaign map frame-rate on a variety of hardware combinations that were getting frame rates less than 15 fps. It took us until Monday to get a case of this happening in the studio, but it was a very simple fix, so we’ve decided to put it out as a single issue patch. This bug was introduced very late in the process, but we absolutely should have found and fixed it before release.

This release has obviously not gone as planned for some people, and I want to apologise to everyone out there who had issues with the game, whether they were hardware issues or disappointment in the performance of game features. We obviously don’t plan to release a game with any bugs, performance and AI issues. How this has happened is something we’re beginning to post mortem in detail now.

Fortunately, the same tech that gave us the rope to work on the game right up to release lets us keep working on it after it’s out, and the flaws in the game are mostly just bugs, not structural defects. We can and will get the game to where we wanted it to be for everyone.

The top priority is stability and performance – both frame rates in battle and campaign, and end of turn times and loading times. Then gameplay spoilers – AI flaws and exploits, balancing tweaks and the level of challenge on higher difficulties. Then minor bugs, lesser features that really didn’t pan out, UI improvements, and longer term adjustments to features and systems that could be better. Because there are a lot of us working in parallel there will be a mixture of different priority fixes in each patch. Much of this work would be part of the usual planned improvements we would make to our games post-launch anyway, but we are aware that they have now taken on extra significance and importance.

We have a major improvement to end of turn times in the pipeline, along with around 100 fixes in the next patch. We have another 100 or so fixes already being tested for the patch after that. At this point the limiting factor on getting issues fixed in patches is not our ability to fix issues, it’s our ability to test them and guarantee that we don’t repeat past mistakes by putting a patch out that breaks something new. We’ll also be putting each patch up as a beta you can opt in to before releasing it. It’s our aim to continue patching more or less weekly until all the bugs are dealt with.

Then we can start the kind of dialogue we always want to be having with the community – which new features you like, which you don’t like, which deleted features from previous games you really miss and so on. That’s a good conversation to be having, and since it’s our intention not to fall in to the trap of just re-skinning the previous game each time, it’s one that hopefully you’ll be having for years to come.

Lastly, I’m hoping we can fundamentally treat our releases differently in the future. Long open betas are the way things are going, and while that model hasn’t been compatible with the way Total War has been built to date, that could be the way forward.

Mike Simpson
Creative Director
Creative Assembly


http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/89314-Second-statement-from-CA-on-Rome-II-s-release-(11-Sep-2013
Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
September 11 2013 21:36 GMT
#1398
They just need to play the parts on Angry Joe's video about the AI on loop for 24 hours to the devs responsible for it.
Arevall
Profile Joined February 2010
Sweden1133 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-11 22:15:22
September 11 2013 22:01 GMT
#1399
That dev statement definitely make it sound like they just forgot having a beta stage of the game.

Edit: Maybe they'll drop an AI DLC in a week or two, haha.
SCkad
Profile Joined March 2012
Scotland97 Posts
September 11 2013 23:28 GMT
#1400
On September 12 2013 03:37 daemir wrote:
When is that even a problem? When it's 1 unit vs 1 unit and the other is faster. Solution, don't fight with just 1 unit?

If you have 2 or more, you can eventually drive the AI into a corner and engage it.

3 legionary cohorts against 3 illyrian mercenaries in rome 1 on hilly terrain, they all run away, after that its a matter of patience and not wanting to sit through the amount of time it takes to drive them back into the edge of the map

On September 12 2013 04:00 RolleMcKnolle wrote:
then implement a mechanic of no unit deaths in x amount of time -> draw. meaning no one loses any units in the retreat and the defender withdraws from that place on campaign map or something like that. Its not that hard to think of something.


assuming it doesn't apply during siege battles where you spend the first couple of minutes battering down the walls? i dunno i really hate the idea of making draws, but thats just me.

personally i think if your going to have a Flag, then you absolutely MUST let the defender choose where to deploy it. i am not about to sit on my ass at the bottom of a hill to defend a flag when i could have been deployed at the top of the damn hill at the beginning and had a huge tactical edge
To hell with it
Prev 1 68 69 70 71 72 104 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 9m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 490
SteadfastSC 126
UpATreeSC 115
ProTech85
JuggernautJason65
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 2507
Mini 197
Dewaltoss 130
firebathero 120
soO 15
NaDa 7
Dota 2
monkeys_forever11
Counter-Strike
fl0m1716
Pyrionflax169
Coldzera 0
Other Games
tarik_tv3939
Grubby3936
Liquid`RaSZi1670
Dendi629
B2W.Neo384
mouzStarbuck327
FrodaN242
C9.Mang0228
RotterdaM159
Mew2King109
ArmadaUGS101
ViBE38
ZombieGrub37
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL250
Other Games
BasetradeTV209
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 19
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie1619
• Scarra1442
• WagamamaTV361
• Shiphtur187
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
3h 9m
GSL
12h 39m
Maru vs SHIN
Zoun vs Rogue
WardiTV Spring Champion…
15h 9m
SKillous vs Strange
Lambo vs Strange
Ryung vs Strange
Lambo vs Ryung
Ryung vs SKillous
Lambo vs SKillous
OSC
22h 9m
Replay Cast
1d 3h
Maestros of the Game
1d 16h
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Lambo vs SHIN
Solar vs Rogue
herO vs Clem
Maestros of the Game
2 days
IPSL
2 days
ZZZero vs WorsT
Julia vs eOnzErG
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Maestros of the Game
3 days
IPSL
3 days
Dragon vs Artosis
dxtr13 vs Hawk
BSL
3 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
5 days
Maestros of the Game
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Maestros of the Game
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 21
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

2026 KK StarCraft Pro League
BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: King of Kings
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
Bounty Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.