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NBA Offseason 2012 - Page 59

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Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
July 24 2012 19:55 GMT
#1161
I don't think you can say definitively that Lin had a harder time getting into the league because he's Asian. There are lots of good college players who never make it and scouting isn't perfect. Neitzel and Paulus must feel pretty bummed at never making it. There certainly seems to be some race politics, especially with blacks, but I don't know if that affects the largely white GMs.

There are some subtle racial categories in basketball with the way some people talk about white and black players, as if black players didn't have a high basketball IQ or white players weren't athletic.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Holcan
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2593 Posts
July 24 2012 20:27 GMT
#1162
I never said he didn't face racism, I'm aware there are plenty of people throwing derogatory terms around. but you saying that ncaa, and ultimately nba, scouts excluded him simply because of his race, is quite immature. perhaps he actually had glaring holes in his game, like his defense, or he was in flawed coaching dynamics for his style, like gsw running him in double pg lineups. perhaps lin actually worked on those holes. needless to say, if he wasn't 1) asian, and 2) a pg under mike dantoni, he would still be nothing more than your standard backup pg. certainly those two factors helped him greatly in over exaggerating his market worth.

by claiming the racism card, you are actually taking away from lins accomplishments, he didn't bypass all these hurdles despite being asian, he passed the hurdles while being asian. if being asian means that much to you you should be taking pride in latter, not resentment in the former.

I hope lin is a fine player, but he will certainly never be on par with kyrie irving, or even john wall, which your link suggests.
Reference The Inadvertant Joey, Strong talented orchastrasted intelligent character.
rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
July 24 2012 20:55 GMT
#1163
gogo usa vs spain espn!
GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
TieN.nS)
Profile Joined August 2003
United States2131 Posts
July 24 2012 21:19 GMT
#1164
I only took offense with the notion that Lin's race actually helped him when, as I think I've clearly demonstrated, it has not and it is only helping him now because he had the ridiculous fortune of 1) being inserted into the starting lineup as a fourth string point guard due to injuries to the rest of NY's PGs the same week he was going to be cut and 2) played like a damn all-star when he finally got his chance. As I believe the consensus is that while he may not end up being an all-star in the league, he's definitively shown that he can be a useful point guard, there is absolutely no good reason for him to be as overlooked as he was. His race helped him become the #2 selling jersey, but without Linsanity happening he wouldn't even be in the league anymore and I hope that that's something you can acknowledge.

I'm sure nobody in this thread will have any desire to read Claire Jean Kim's essay on The Racial Triangulation of Asian Americans, but I'll post it anyway. I feel that this is what Devin Gordon was trying to get at with his GQ article. Hopefully the idea is less offensive to you in academic form if you (unlikely, I wouldn't if someone just linked this to me on the Internet haha) read it here.
TieN.nS)
Profile Joined August 2003
United States2131 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-24 22:27:52
July 24 2012 21:23 GMT
#1165
On July 25 2012 05:55 rei wrote:
gogo usa vs spain espn!


Thanks for the heads-up, hope USA shows a little more life than they did against Argentina. @_@

edit: whoo USA USA USA
rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
July 25 2012 00:13 GMT
#1166
melo looked so damn good vs spain, he's not a ball stopper if the ball always ends up inside the basket after he touches it.
GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
QTIP.
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2113 Posts
July 25 2012 00:13 GMT
#1167
Knicks get Ronnie Brewer for the Veteran's Minimum ($1.4 M).

Wow. In a summer of bad deals, this is the only one that can legitimately be considered a steal at this point.
"Trash Micro but Win. Its Marin." - Min Chul
seiferoth10
Profile Joined May 2010
3362 Posts
July 25 2012 01:28 GMT
#1168
Anybody else think the ads on the jerseys of European teams (particularly the ones scrimmaging against the US in pre-Olympics) an eyesore? Some of them even omit the player name for a giant ad, is this what it'll be like in the NBA?
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13007 Posts
July 25 2012 02:00 GMT
#1169
On July 25 2012 01:30 MassHysteria wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 24 2012 22:21 RowdierBob wrote:
On July 24 2012 03:36 MassHysteria wrote:
A pretty interesting look into not going the "bottom out/tank" approach by using the Nuggets as an example in the coming years. http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/07/23/denver-nuggets-offseason/?sct=nba_t12_a0


Pretty flaky article. Too many "what-ifs" in there to really take it seriously. Denver's a competitive team, but that's about it. Fact is they were a better team with Melo on the roster. They got good value on him before he left but it was a lateral move at best for the team. If they could nab a star they'd be an instant contender but fact is they're nowhere near bad enough to draft one via the lotto and if they did happen to land one via trade they'd have to gut many of their best assets.

Unfortunate fact in the NBA is unglamourous small market teams don't get stars unless it's via the draft.

Contrary to popular belief, I actually do hate tanking and it's rampant spread in the NBA. But until the system changes, it's the only way for some teams to get the stars they need to win.

Which brings me to another point. I was having a chat with someone the other day about how the NBA could go a long way to reducing tanking: eliminate max contracts. Keep the cap the way it is but eliminate max contracts so we can see what stars are really worth on the open market.

Anyone else think it would even things up a lot in the NBA?

There are definitely what-ifs but I think you are missing the point somewhat in which he means that there are significant what-ifs in tanking as well, if not more (his points on the odds are great, I will not repeat them). Plus, he gave a few advantages in the present time by not tanking (still in playoff hunt, have younger players who are still developing -lawson, gallinari-, and you never know how far they can go in the playoffs with the help of injuries and luck.) There are always what-ifs when discussing strategy though.

You said "if they could nab a star they'd be an instant contender" and obviously that is what they want themselves as Karl was quoted in the piece. The difference is they are going with a different philosphy than the teams who choose to bottom out because they can't nab a star. When there are too many teams looking to bottom-out and there are elite teams which you know are contenders a tier above you for the next 4-5 years, sometimes a new approach could be worth it. Is the article saying this is going to pay off? Not at all. Lowe isn't even arguing this is a good idea, it is more of a wait-and-see how it turns out approach, which is what is really interesting of this to me: The next few years for DEN.

If there was ever a time to try the kind of approach which the article suggests Denver is trying, then this would the right time. With the CBA changes to the league, a lot of teams will be looking to unload players that they know they will not be able to resign or can't afford anymore (to resign a younger player, etc) and DEN is trying to smeagle a way into those conversations. It has yet to work or happen and there are definite questions but I am interested to see where this approach takes them compared to other teams. An "experiment" sort of lol.

As for eliminating the max contract, the problem is that the CBA functions as a whole. So to change max contracts, makes it so that everything in the CBA has to be revisited and changed so that it fits this new system. The most basic example of this example is that eliminating max contracts would then lead to no salary caps. No one wants to be the guy to sign Kobe for 40-45million annually and only have 30 million left to spend b/c of the salary cap. It is not as simple as changing just one aspect of the CBA b/c it all fits together. Side-note: I actually think this CBA will do a good job for people wanting "parity". People are expecting results too quickly though after the CBA though and saying it didn't work, when the effects aren't really fully seen until ~5 years later.


All good points... But I think the underlying issue of that article was how much life sucks for irrelevant small market NBA franchises. You only have to look at the example of Denver. They have a competitive team that realistically is no chance of contending (Gallo and Lawson aren't going to get much better, sorry).

I think the sad reality is they can either go down the Denver/Milwaukee/Indy route of compiling good-but-not-great assets and grind out a first/second round appearance each year without ever being a really serious contender; or they can take their chances in the lottery and dream large (and hope they can do something positive in the 7 years they'll have a franchise player for).

I take your points about the CBA, but I'm speaking very hypothetically. If there were no max contracts it would actually allow small market teams to be a realistic chance of signing big name FAs. If Kobe or Lebron were really worth their 40-50 mill then there's no way a team could afford to team them with say Wade/Bosh or D12. It would be a great way to spread the talent across the NBA IMO.

It's great to see super teams go against eachother in the Playoffs, but it's also terrible to have an NBA where the vast majority of franchises really don't matter. I admire Denver for trying something different but it's just another way of defining NBA purgatory as a small franchise for me.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
July 25 2012 03:52 GMT
#1170
Miami is a small market team also though
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
July 25 2012 03:57 GMT
#1171
'Small market' seems like a misleading term. Miami is the 6th most valuable franchise, is in a great location and (for the moment) players are flocking there. Spurs are also #9, though obviously they lack other advantages.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
July 25 2012 04:37 GMT
#1172
Valuable because LeBron James is there. Market-size wide they aren't even a top 10 team. Houston is a bigger market than they are.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
July 25 2012 04:44 GMT
#1173
today's game vs Spain could serve as a statement game about how melo can be effective without isolation. There was no ball holding, every time he touches the ball it goes into the basket within 2 seconds. It's all about if his teammate can get him ez looks.
GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
July 25 2012 04:55 GMT
#1174
Ok, then, I retract my statement.

I reinsert 'location' and 'collusion' as Miami's advantages.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11767 Posts
July 25 2012 05:34 GMT
#1175
On a more amusing note:
[image loading]
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
Doraemon
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Australia14949 Posts
July 25 2012 06:27 GMT
#1176
i chuckled at the pic
Do yourself a favour and just STFU
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
July 25 2012 07:50 GMT
#1177
epic pic
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16071 Posts
July 25 2012 08:35 GMT
#1178
Stephen Jackson WOULD be really into theoretical physics.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
MassHysteria
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3678 Posts
July 25 2012 09:25 GMT
#1179
So great!
"Just ban all the J's...even jinklejoes" --unnamed source
Klogon
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
MURICA15980 Posts
July 25 2012 10:53 GMT
#1180
Yeah that picture is seriously one of the best creations ever hahaha
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