NBA Offseason 2012 - Page 59

Jerubaal

United States7684 Posts

July 24 2012 19:55 GMT

#1161

I don't think you can say definitively that Lin had a harder time getting into the league because he's Asian. There are lots of good college players who never make it and scouting isn't perfect. Neitzel and Paulus must feel pretty bummed at never making it. There certainly seems to be some race politics, especially with blacks, but I don't know if that affects the largely white GMs.

There are some subtle racial categories in basketball with the way some people talk about white and black players, as if black players didn't have a high basketball IQ or white players weren't athletic.

Holcan

Canada2593 Posts

July 24 2012 20:27 GMT

#1162

I never said he didn't face racism, I'm aware there are plenty of people throwing derogatory terms around. but you saying that ncaa, and ultimately nba, scouts excluded him simply because of his race, is quite immature. perhaps he actually had glaring holes in his game, like his defense, or he was in flawed coaching dynamics for his style, like gsw running him in double pg lineups. perhaps lin actually worked on those holes. needless to say, if he wasn't 1) asian, and 2) a pg under mike dantoni, he would still be nothing more than your standard backup pg. certainly those two factors helped him greatly in over exaggerating his market worth.

by claiming the racism card, you are actually taking away from lins accomplishments, he didn't bypass all these hurdles despite being asian, he passed the hurdles while being asian. if being asian means that much to you you should be taking pride in latter, not resentment in the former.

I hope lin is a fine player, but he will certainly never be on par with kyrie irving, or even john wall, which your link suggests.

rei

United States3594 Posts

July 24 2012 20:55 GMT

#1163

gogo usa vs spain espn!

TieN.nS)

United States2131 Posts

July 24 2012 21:19 GMT

#1164

I only took offense with the notion that Lin's race actually helped him when, as I think I've clearly demonstrated, it has not and it is only helping him now because he had the ridiculous fortune of 1) being inserted into the starting lineup as a fourth string point guard due to injuries to the rest of NY's PGs the same week he was going to be cut and 2) played like a damn all-star when he finally got his chance. As I believe the consensus is that while he may not end up being an all-star in the league, he's definitively shown that he can be a useful point guard, there is absolutely no good reason for him to be as overlooked as he was. His race helped him become the #2 selling jersey, but without Linsanity happening he wouldn't even be in the league anymore and I hope that that's something you can acknowledge.

I'm sure nobody in this thread will have any desire to read Claire Jean Kim's essay on The Racial Triangulation of Asian Americans, but I'll post it anyway. I feel that this is what Devin Gordon was trying to get at with his GQ article. Hopefully the idea is less offensive to you in academic form if you (unlikely, I wouldn't if someone just linked this to me on the Internet haha) read it here.

TieN.nS)

United States2131 Posts

July 24 2012 21:23 GMT

#1165

On July 25 2012 05:55 rei wrote:
gogo usa vs spain espn!

Thanks for the heads-up, hope USA shows a little more life than they did against Argentina. @_@

edit: whoo USA USA USA

rei

United States3594 Posts

July 25 2012 00:13 GMT

#1166

melo looked so damn good vs spain, he's not a ball stopper if the ball always ends up inside the basket after he touches it.

QTIP.

United States2113 Posts

July 25 2012 00:13 GMT

#1167

Knicks get Ronnie Brewer for the Veteran's Minimum ($1.4 M).

Wow. In a summer of bad deals, this is the only one that can legitimately be considered a steal at this point.

seiferoth10

3362 Posts

July 25 2012 01:28 GMT

#1168

Anybody else think the ads on the jerseys of European teams (particularly the ones scrimmaging against the US in pre-Olympics) an eyesore? Some of them even omit the player name for a giant ad, is this what it'll be like in the NBA?

RowdierBob

Australia13293 Posts

July 25 2012 02:00 GMT

#1169

On July 25 2012 01:30 MassHysteria wrote:

Show nested quote +

There are definitely what-ifs but I think you are missing the point somewhat in which he means that there are significant what-ifs in tanking as well, if not more (his points on the odds are great, I will not repeat them). Plus, he gave a few advantages in the present time by not tanking (still in playoff hunt, have younger players who are still developing -lawson, gallinari-, and you never know how far they can go in the playoffs with the help of injuries and luck.) There are always what-ifs when discussing strategy though.

You said "if they could nab a star they'd be an instant contender" and obviously that is what they want themselves as Karl was quoted in the piece. The difference is they are going with a different philosphy than the teams who choose to bottom out because they can't nab a star. When there are too many teams looking to bottom-out and there are elite teams which you know are contenders a tier above you for the next 4-5 years, sometimes a new approach could be worth it. Is the article saying this is going to pay off? Not at all. Lowe isn't even arguing this is a good idea, it is more of a wait-and-see how it turns out approach, which is what is really interesting of this to me: The next few years for DEN.

If there was ever a time to try the kind of approach which the article suggests Denver is trying, then this would the right time. With the CBA changes to the league, a lot of teams will be looking to unload players that they know they will not be able to resign or can't afford anymore (to resign a younger player, etc) and DEN is trying to smeagle a way into those conversations. It has yet to work or happen and there are definite questions but I am interested to see where this approach takes them compared to other teams. An "experiment" sort of lol.

As for eliminating the max contract, the problem is that the CBA functions as a whole. So to change max contracts, makes it so that everything in the CBA has to be revisited and changed so that it fits this new system. The most basic example of this example is that eliminating max contracts would then lead to no salary caps. No one wants to be the guy to sign Kobe for 40-45million annually and only have 30 million left to spend b/c of the salary cap. It is not as simple as changing just one aspect of the CBA b/c it all fits together. Side-note: I actually think this CBA will do a good job for people wanting "parity". People are expecting results too quickly though after the CBA though and saying it didn't work, when the effects aren't really fully seen until ~5 years later.

All good points... But I think the underlying issue of that article was how much life sucks for irrelevant small market NBA franchises. You only have to look at the example of Denver. They have a competitive team that realistically is no chance of contending (Gallo and Lawson aren't going to get much better, sorry).

I think the sad reality is they can either go down the Denver/Milwaukee/Indy route of compiling good-but-not-great assets and grind out a first/second round appearance each year without ever being a really serious contender; or they can take their chances in the lottery and dream large (and hope they can do something positive in the 7 years they'll have a franchise player for).

I take your points about the CBA, but I'm speaking very hypothetically. If there were no max contracts it would actually allow small market teams to be a realistic chance of signing big name FAs. If Kobe or Lebron were really worth their 40-50 mill then there's no way a team could afford to team them with say Wade/Bosh or D12. It would be a great way to spread the talent across the NBA IMO.

It's great to see super teams go against eachother in the Playoffs, but it's also terrible to have an NBA where the vast majority of franchises really don't matter. I admire Denver for trying something different but it's just another way of defining NBA purgatory as a small franchise for me.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

July 25 2012 03:52 GMT

#1170

Miami is a small market team also though

Jerubaal

United States7684 Posts

July 25 2012 03:57 GMT

#1171

'Small market' seems like a misleading term. Miami is the 6th most valuable franchise, is in a great location and (for the moment) players are flocking there. Spurs are also #9, though obviously they lack other advantages.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

July 25 2012 04:37 GMT

#1172

Valuable because LeBron James is there. Market-size wide they aren't even a top 10 team. Houston is a bigger market than they are.

rei

United States3594 Posts

July 25 2012 04:44 GMT

#1173

today's game vs Spain could serve as a statement game about how melo can be effective without isolation. There was no ball holding, every time he touches the ball it goes into the basket within 2 seconds. It's all about if his teammate can get him ez looks.