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Dark Souls - Prepare to Die (PC) - Page 83

Forum Index > General Games
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Fyrewolf
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1533 Posts
September 24 2012 14:41 GMT
#1641
On September 24 2012 23:33 Animzor wrote:
Ok, so apparently being human and having 11 humanity + covetous gold serpent ring completely stops humanity from dropping ...

When I was hollow I usually got 1 humanity every second run I made to the 5 rats in the Depths, now with 410 item discovery, I haven't gotten anything in over 20 runs. This is fucked.

Edit: I suicided to become hollow and instantly found 1 humanity.


The dlc area chasm of the abyss is infinitely better for humanity farming. Instead of 1 every second run, you'll get 15+ humanities per single run and 6-7 double humanities. Farming 99 humanities takes less than an hour.
"This is not Warcraft in space" "It's much more...... Sophisticated" "I KNOW IT'S NOT 3D!!!"
Animzor
Profile Joined March 2011
Sweden2154 Posts
September 24 2012 14:47 GMT
#1642
On September 24 2012 23:41 Fyrewolf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2012 23:33 Animzor wrote:
Ok, so apparently being human and having 11 humanity + covetous gold serpent ring completely stops humanity from dropping ...

When I was hollow I usually got 1 humanity every second run I made to the 5 rats in the Depths, now with 410 item discovery, I haven't gotten anything in over 20 runs. This is fucked.

Edit: I suicided to become hollow and instantly found 1 humanity.


The dlc area chasm of the abyss is infinitely better for humanity farming. Instead of 1 every second run, you'll get 15+ humanities per single run and 6-7 double humanities. Farming 99 humanities takes less than an hour.


Thanks, I haven't killed Artorias yet, but I'll start working on that right away.
crms
Profile Joined February 2010
United States11933 Posts
September 24 2012 17:02 GMT
#1643
On September 23 2012 13:01 beachbeachy wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +


check this out if you're new ^^

i actually dont recommend that video if you're new until youre ready to start a 2nd character. I'm glad as a former DS newb I never saw this. These tricks and items would make the game trivial for so long.
http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png | Fighting games are great
Kemy
Profile Joined November 2010
105 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-24 21:53:53
September 24 2012 21:52 GMT
#1644
On September 24 2012 07:41 Fyrewolf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2012 05:06 Kemy wrote:
Hey guys,

I stuck with the game and I'm ~25 hours in (played pretty much the whole weekend). So far, I completed the "story" up to and incl. Anor Londo.

I'm wearing a +15 Zweihander with the stamina regen shield on my back. Armor is what looked the best and was light enough to let me fast roll. Now my question:

Stats currently (planned)

30 Vit (30)
35 End (35 or 40)
27 Str (27)
25 Dex (40)

I want to go into magic after that mostly for buffs and enhancing spells not so much for spelldamage. What would you suggest to go? faith or int? Can I have the same spell multiple times slotted to use it more often?

Is there a downside to not using armor pieces to lose weight?

Would appreciate if someone could give me some advice on these questions.

Thanks a lot in advance


If you want buffing spells and not spelldamage, faith is usually better. There are far more better utility miracles than sorceries. 30 faith is a good amount to use the buffs, tranquil walk of peace, vow of silence, great magic barrier, and forces. One question I have though is why you want to go past 25 dex, the only reason to is for more dmg on dex scaling weapons. You can already wield all weapons, and buffing and most utility spells do not cast faster with dex, nor will the extra dex make a huge difference in cast speed anymore anyway. You could drop a few for more vit, which still has pretty strong gains from 30-40(23ish per lvl), or more str to 2-hand big weapons/more dmg. It will require a couple playthroughs if you want multiple copies of the good spells though(I'd recommend stopping at 16 or 19 attunement), the best buffs show up only once.


The Zweihander scales C with both dex and str. Therefore 27 str/40 dex is pretty much all you can get in terms of dmg (610 AR) from that weapon.

I think I will stil go for int since the weapon buffs seem to be pretty much equal with 30 int/faith and int looks more fun overall.

going for

30vit
27str
40dex
43end to get <25% load
14att
32int

which just happens to be exactly the "magic" SL 125.

even though i don't care that much about pvp but will most likely join the light covenant and help people if there is still need at this SL. I still have to finish the first playthrough though (just killed the crystal dragon).
gruff
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden2276 Posts
September 24 2012 22:08 GMT
#1645
Next to the bonfire in the undead parish (the one near the blacksmith) there's a bridge over to a big gate where it sits an npc and just hums (don't remember exactly what he says). Is there something you can do there? I think I've seen people where similar armor to the npc. Can you kill him or is there a way to open the gate or something?
Kemy
Profile Joined November 2010
105 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-24 22:18:43
September 24 2012 22:16 GMT
#1646
On September 25 2012 07:08 gruff wrote:
Next to the bonfire in the undead parish (the one near the blacksmith) there's a bridge over to a big gate where it sits an npc and just hums (don't remember exactly what he says). Is there something you can do there? I think I've seen people where similar armor to the npc. Can you kill him or is there a way to open the gate or something?


You can't do anything there at this point in the story.

The gate opens after you rang the second bell. You don't need to kill him since you won't get his armor but only a mediocre ring (which you will get anyways if you complete his storyline). And killing npcs in general is a bad idea since you will get invaded more often and other npcs may turn hostile too (if i remember correctly)
Wedge
Profile Joined March 2008
Canada580 Posts
September 24 2012 22:22 GMT
#1647
Just got this game as a gift from a friend, haven't played it yet, but I always remember hearing all the hype about it on PS3, so I'm definitely eager to give it a shot.
FlamingForce
Profile Joined September 2011
Netherlands701 Posts
September 24 2012 22:56 GMT
#1648
On September 25 2012 07:22 Wedge wrote:
Just got this game as a gift from a friend, haven't played it yet, but I always remember hearing all the hype about it on PS3, so I'm definitely eager to give it a shot.


Just remember to learn from your mistakes, never blame the game no matter how rediculous it may seem and keep trying ^^

Also, Dark Souls is actually helping me with my homework at the moment, didn't think I'd ever see the day I could combine homework and gaming but there's something very motivating about just putting my summon sign down next to the gargoyles with my new char here and helping whoever summons me with the fight, gets me some humanity, decent souls and the occasional sunlight medal and while I'm waiting for a summon I just do my homework, occasionally looking at my screen.

Coincidentally, I'm studying Japanese.
gruff
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden2276 Posts
September 24 2012 23:31 GMT
#1649
On September 25 2012 07:16 Kemy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 07:08 gruff wrote:
Next to the bonfire in the undead parish (the one near the blacksmith) there's a bridge over to a big gate where it sits an npc and just hums (don't remember exactly what he says). Is there something you can do there? I think I've seen people where similar armor to the npc. Can you kill him or is there a way to open the gate or something?


You can't do anything there at this point in the story.

The gate opens after you rang the second bell. You don't need to kill him since you won't get his armor but only a mediocre ring (which you will get anyways if you complete his storyline). And killing npcs in general is a bad idea since you will get invaded more often and other npcs may turn hostile too (if i remember correctly)


Thanks, it was just bugging me that I was missing something since it was so close to the bonfire. I'll just go on with dying to the capra demon instead.
Fyrewolf
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1533 Posts
September 25 2012 00:47 GMT
#1650
On September 25 2012 06:52 Kemy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2012 07:41 Fyrewolf wrote:
On September 24 2012 05:06 Kemy wrote:
Hey guys,

I stuck with the game and I'm ~25 hours in (played pretty much the whole weekend). So far, I completed the "story" up to and incl. Anor Londo.

I'm wearing a +15 Zweihander with the stamina regen shield on my back. Armor is what looked the best and was light enough to let me fast roll. Now my question:

Stats currently (planned)

30 Vit (30)
35 End (35 or 40)
27 Str (27)
25 Dex (40)

I want to go into magic after that mostly for buffs and enhancing spells not so much for spelldamage. What would you suggest to go? faith or int? Can I have the same spell multiple times slotted to use it more often?

Is there a downside to not using armor pieces to lose weight?

Would appreciate if someone could give me some advice on these questions.

Thanks a lot in advance


If you want buffing spells and not spelldamage, faith is usually better. There are far more better utility miracles than sorceries. 30 faith is a good amount to use the buffs, tranquil walk of peace, vow of silence, great magic barrier, and forces. One question I have though is why you want to go past 25 dex, the only reason to is for more dmg on dex scaling weapons. You can already wield all weapons, and buffing and most utility spells do not cast faster with dex, nor will the extra dex make a huge difference in cast speed anymore anyway. You could drop a few for more vit, which still has pretty strong gains from 30-40(23ish per lvl), or more str to 2-hand big weapons/more dmg. It will require a couple playthroughs if you want multiple copies of the good spells though(I'd recommend stopping at 16 or 19 attunement), the best buffs show up only once.


The Zweihander scales C with both dex and str. Therefore 27 str/40 dex is pretty much all you can get in terms of dmg (610 AR) from that weapon.

I think I will stil go for int since the weapon buffs seem to be pretty much equal with 30 int/faith and int looks more fun overall.

going for

30vit
27str
40dex
43end to get <25% load
14att
32int

which just happens to be exactly the "magic" SL 125.

even though i don't care that much about pvp but will most likely join the light covenant and help people if there is still need at this SL. I still have to finish the first playthrough though (just killed the crystal dragon).


Really, that's it? Going 40 dex just for a c scaling weapon is kind of a waste, unless you want a backup dex weapon, but do whatever you want. I also think sorceries are more fun than miracles too, even if miracles are more useful for utility. Just so you know though if you are going to be using tin crystalization catalyst with your 32 int for min/maxing, it only allows one cast of crystal magic weapon per att slot, so you have to make it count when you use it. Sunlight covenent is fun, and in later playthroughs you can pretty much help anyone in any area since people don't usually level up farther.
"This is not Warcraft in space" "It's much more...... Sophisticated" "I KNOW IT'S NOT 3D!!!"
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-25 01:55:15
September 25 2012 00:54 GMT
#1651
I went 40 dex with Uchigatana and a weapon buff and this build is pretty nuts.

The weapon itself is just so well balanced. Long range thrust attacks, nice slash attack. Two handing it is a nice boost in damage.

Also I am below 25 percent load so I can use the ninja flip ring.

That ring alone has trivialized boss fights.
twitch.tv/medrea
Animzor
Profile Joined March 2011
Sweden2154 Posts
September 25 2012 07:34 GMT
#1652
On September 24 2012 23:41 Fyrewolf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2012 23:33 Animzor wrote:
Ok, so apparently being human and having 11 humanity + covetous gold serpent ring completely stops humanity from dropping ...

When I was hollow I usually got 1 humanity every second run I made to the 5 rats in the Depths, now with 410 item discovery, I haven't gotten anything in over 20 runs. This is fucked.

Edit: I suicided to become hollow and instantly found 1 humanity.


The dlc area chasm of the abyss is infinitely better for humanity farming. Instead of 1 every second run, you'll get 15+ humanities per single run and 6-7 double humanities. Farming 99 humanities takes less than an hour.


Is there any way to earn souls quickly?
ToT)OjKa(
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Korea (South)2437 Posts
September 25 2012 08:09 GMT
#1653
On September 25 2012 16:34 Animzor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2012 23:41 Fyrewolf wrote:
On September 24 2012 23:33 Animzor wrote:
Ok, so apparently being human and having 11 humanity + covetous gold serpent ring completely stops humanity from dropping ...

When I was hollow I usually got 1 humanity every second run I made to the 5 rats in the Depths, now with 410 item discovery, I haven't gotten anything in over 20 runs. This is fucked.

Edit: I suicided to become hollow and instantly found 1 humanity.


The dlc area chasm of the abyss is infinitely better for humanity farming. Instead of 1 every second run, you'll get 15+ humanities per single run and 6-7 double humanities. Farming 99 humanities takes less than an hour.


Is there any way to earn souls quickly?


getting invaded and winning is a good way
OjKa OjKa OjKa!
Kemy
Profile Joined November 2010
105 Posts
September 25 2012 08:19 GMT
#1654
On September 25 2012 09:47 Fyrewolf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 06:52 Kemy wrote:
On September 24 2012 07:41 Fyrewolf wrote:
On September 24 2012 05:06 Kemy wrote:
Hey guys,

I stuck with the game and I'm ~25 hours in (played pretty much the whole weekend). So far, I completed the "story" up to and incl. Anor Londo.

I'm wearing a +15 Zweihander with the stamina regen shield on my back. Armor is what looked the best and was light enough to let me fast roll. Now my question:

Stats currently (planned)

30 Vit (30)
35 End (35 or 40)
27 Str (27)
25 Dex (40)

I want to go into magic after that mostly for buffs and enhancing spells not so much for spelldamage. What would you suggest to go? faith or int? Can I have the same spell multiple times slotted to use it more often?

Is there a downside to not using armor pieces to lose weight?

Would appreciate if someone could give me some advice on these questions.

Thanks a lot in advance


If you want buffing spells and not spelldamage, faith is usually better. There are far more better utility miracles than sorceries. 30 faith is a good amount to use the buffs, tranquil walk of peace, vow of silence, great magic barrier, and forces. One question I have though is why you want to go past 25 dex, the only reason to is for more dmg on dex scaling weapons. You can already wield all weapons, and buffing and most utility spells do not cast faster with dex, nor will the extra dex make a huge difference in cast speed anymore anyway. You could drop a few for more vit, which still has pretty strong gains from 30-40(23ish per lvl), or more str to 2-hand big weapons/more dmg. It will require a couple playthroughs if you want multiple copies of the good spells though(I'd recommend stopping at 16 or 19 attunement), the best buffs show up only once.


The Zweihander scales C with both dex and str. Therefore 27 str/40 dex is pretty much all you can get in terms of dmg (610 AR) from that weapon.

I think I will stil go for int since the weapon buffs seem to be pretty much equal with 30 int/faith and int looks more fun overall.

going for

30vit
27str
40dex
43end to get <25% load
14att
32int

which just happens to be exactly the "magic" SL 125.

even though i don't care that much about pvp but will most likely join the light covenant and help people if there is still need at this SL. I still have to finish the first playthrough though (just killed the crystal dragon).


Really, that's it? Going 40 dex just for a c scaling weapon is kind of a waste, unless you want a backup dex weapon, but do whatever you want. I also think sorceries are more fun than miracles too, even if miracles are more useful for utility. Just so you know though if you are going to be using tin crystalization catalyst with your 32 int for min/maxing, it only allows one cast of crystal magic weapon per att slot, so you have to make it count when you use it. Sunlight covenent is fun, and in later playthroughs you can pretty much help anyone in any area since people don't usually level up farther.


I agree that 40 dex doesn't do that much (+23 AR compared to 30 dex) but I really like the Zweihander and vit just doesn't seem necessary. As long as you don't get 1shotted by an attack the additional hp are negligible compared to your hp pool with up to 20 estus flasks. I know that tin crystalization catalyst comes at a disadvantage.

One more question: is it possible to wear twice the same ring i.e. double havels or double ring of favor and protection?
Odoakar
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia1837 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-25 09:10:28
September 25 2012 09:09 GMT
#1655
I think you can't. Didn't try it, but I remember reading about it.

Does anyone know is these lvl recommendation apply to PTD edition? I'm lvl 32 at Anor Londo, and can't invade anyone nor see anyones summon sign, so I'm guessing I'm too low a level

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k589/vlahka/DarkSouls-Co-opguide.jpg
BadgerBadger8264
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands409 Posts
September 25 2012 09:51 GMT
#1656
On September 25 2012 16:34 Animzor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2012 23:41 Fyrewolf wrote:
On September 24 2012 23:33 Animzor wrote:
Ok, so apparently being human and having 11 humanity + covetous gold serpent ring completely stops humanity from dropping ...

When I was hollow I usually got 1 humanity every second run I made to the 5 rats in the Depths, now with 410 item discovery, I haven't gotten anything in over 20 runs. This is fucked.

Edit: I suicided to become hollow and instantly found 1 humanity.


The dlc area chasm of the abyss is infinitely better for humanity farming. Instead of 1 every second run, you'll get 15+ humanities per single run and 6-7 double humanities. Farming 99 humanities takes less than an hour.


Is there any way to earn souls quickly?


In the painted world you can farm souls by killing the phalanx, they give a large amount of souls and are quite easy to kill. I recommend equipping the Covetous Silver Serpent Ring (for extra souls) and using the Fire Tempest or Fire Storm pyromancies to quickly kill a large amount of them. It should net you about 500k souls an hour if you do it right, and about 1000k in NG+
Kemy
Profile Joined November 2010
105 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-25 11:50:50
September 25 2012 11:20 GMT
#1657
Just encountered the most depressing boss in the game as a pure melee build: Titanite Demon in Lost Izalith

Basically no way to kill him because he just pushes you off the bridge with his tail/weapon if you try to block his attacks and circle him and he does not get stunned by my attacks which results in almost 100% retaliations if I strike him with my 2hander from the front.. great -.-

edit: finally did it.. recovery animation of the jump attack seems to be faster than just R2 an i get away after hitting him without taking too much dmg. Lured him to the end of the bridge so he wouldnt jump anymore and attack when he casted. Yay!
Fyrewolf
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1533 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-25 15:17:13
September 25 2012 15:16 GMT
#1658
On September 25 2012 16:34 Animzor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2012 23:41 Fyrewolf wrote:
On September 24 2012 23:33 Animzor wrote:
Ok, so apparently being human and having 11 humanity + covetous gold serpent ring completely stops humanity from dropping ...

When I was hollow I usually got 1 humanity every second run I made to the 5 rats in the Depths, now with 410 item discovery, I haven't gotten anything in over 20 runs. This is fucked.

Edit: I suicided to become hollow and instantly found 1 humanity.


The dlc area chasm of the abyss is infinitely better for humanity farming. Instead of 1 every second run, you'll get 15+ humanities per single run and 6-7 double humanities. Farming 99 humanities takes less than an hour.


Is there any way to earn souls quickly?


There's a bunch of PvE areas for souls, but PvP is by far the best for farming souls. Also just going to new game + is extremely helpful, enemies drop 5-10x as many souls there. Just forest covenant hunter farming gives you over 50k-64k in new game +. For PvE farming, the covetous silver serpent ring and the symbol of avarice stack to give you 144% souls(stacks with overkill too, but anything you can overkill isn't worth farming), but it's only good for PvE or right after you kill a boss quickly in the time before you get the souls because of the health drain.
"This is not Warcraft in space" "It's much more...... Sophisticated" "I KNOW IT'S NOT 3D!!!"
Fyrewolf
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1533 Posts
September 25 2012 15:40 GMT
#1659
On September 25 2012 20:20 Kemy wrote:
Just encountered the most depressing boss in the game as a pure melee build: Titanite Demon in Lost Izalith

Basically no way to kill him because he just pushes you off the bridge with his tail/weapon if you try to block his attacks and circle him and he does not get stunned by my attacks which results in almost 100% retaliations if I strike him with my 2hander from the front.. great -.-

edit: finally did it.. recovery animation of the jump attack seems to be faster than just R2 an i get away after hitting him without taking too much dmg. Lured him to the end of the bridge so he wouldnt jump anymore and attack when he casted. Yay!


You just have to be careful around them, but they aren't too hard, even that one. Getting pushed off the bridge shouldn't be a big issue if you keep him in the center and circle him, maybe switch to eagle shield/other greatshield if you have to. I actually try to stay as close as possible literally touching him, usually circling towards the right blocking attacks(you can let go of block for a second after blocking to gain some stamina back and then start blocking again), and only do one, maybe two attacks at a time to make sure he doesn't suddenly jump attack, which I always dodge(to the left or right with this one, though usually back otherwise). I generally only attack after he does his attacks also, just to be extra sure he doesn't jump with no warning while I'm attacking, then just go back to circling (as close as possible) until he does a move again. His three swipe combo usually only hits with the first one, sometimes the second, but he seems to stop turning for the third if he does it so it's a good place to sneak a hit in. His long reach swipe has a long recovery, as does his reach up and slow downswipe, so also good places to sneak hits in. His only dangerous move is the jump attack since it has no startup, does a lot of damage, and can sometimes hit your head even while blocking. I prefer using melee to kill them because it's easier for me to avoid their attacks since my attacks come out and recover faster than spells so I'm less vulnerable.
"This is not Warcraft in space" "It's much more...... Sophisticated" "I KNOW IT'S NOT 3D!!!"
Fyrewolf
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1533 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-25 15:46:32
September 25 2012 15:45 GMT
#1660
On September 25 2012 17:19 Kemy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 09:47 Fyrewolf wrote:
On September 25 2012 06:52 Kemy wrote:
On September 24 2012 07:41 Fyrewolf wrote:
On September 24 2012 05:06 Kemy wrote:
Hey guys,

I stuck with the game and I'm ~25 hours in (played pretty much the whole weekend). So far, I completed the "story" up to and incl. Anor Londo.

I'm wearing a +15 Zweihander with the stamina regen shield on my back. Armor is what looked the best and was light enough to let me fast roll. Now my question:

Stats currently (planned)

30 Vit (30)
35 End (35 or 40)
27 Str (27)
25 Dex (40)

I want to go into magic after that mostly for buffs and enhancing spells not so much for spelldamage. What would you suggest to go? faith or int? Can I have the same spell multiple times slotted to use it more often?

Is there a downside to not using armor pieces to lose weight?

Would appreciate if someone could give me some advice on these questions.

Thanks a lot in advance


If you want buffing spells and not spelldamage, faith is usually better. There are far more better utility miracles than sorceries. 30 faith is a good amount to use the buffs, tranquil walk of peace, vow of silence, great magic barrier, and forces. One question I have though is why you want to go past 25 dex, the only reason to is for more dmg on dex scaling weapons. You can already wield all weapons, and buffing and most utility spells do not cast faster with dex, nor will the extra dex make a huge difference in cast speed anymore anyway. You could drop a few for more vit, which still has pretty strong gains from 30-40(23ish per lvl), or more str to 2-hand big weapons/more dmg. It will require a couple playthroughs if you want multiple copies of the good spells though(I'd recommend stopping at 16 or 19 attunement), the best buffs show up only once.


The Zweihander scales C with both dex and str. Therefore 27 str/40 dex is pretty much all you can get in terms of dmg (610 AR) from that weapon.

I think I will stil go for int since the weapon buffs seem to be pretty much equal with 30 int/faith and int looks more fun overall.

going for

30vit
27str
40dex
43end to get <25% load
14att
32int

which just happens to be exactly the "magic" SL 125.

even though i don't care that much about pvp but will most likely join the light covenant and help people if there is still need at this SL. I still have to finish the first playthrough though (just killed the crystal dragon).


Really, that's it? Going 40 dex just for a c scaling weapon is kind of a waste, unless you want a backup dex weapon, but do whatever you want. I also think sorceries are more fun than miracles too, even if miracles are more useful for utility. Just so you know though if you are going to be using tin crystalization catalyst with your 32 int for min/maxing, it only allows one cast of crystal magic weapon per att slot, so you have to make it count when you use it. Sunlight covenent is fun, and in later playthroughs you can pretty much help anyone in any area since people don't usually level up farther.


I agree that 40 dex doesn't do that much (+23 AR compared to 30 dex) but I really like the Zweihander and vit just doesn't seem necessary. As long as you don't get 1shotted by an attack the additional hp are negligible compared to your hp pool with up to 20 estus flasks. I know that tin crystalization catalyst comes at a disadvantage.

One more question: is it possible to wear twice the same ring i.e. double havels or double ring of favor and protection?


Nope, can't wear duplicate rings. If you plan on doing PvP with that char(where using estus leaves you very vulnerable and more often than not kills you), I'd highly recommend more health over a paltry 15 more damage(after defense), but you can always make a new char for PvP anyway.
"This is not Warcraft in space" "It's much more...... Sophisticated" "I KNOW IT'S NOT 3D!!!"
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