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On April 07 2016 00:08 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2016 23:53 Plansix wrote:On April 06 2016 23:19 Thax wrote:On April 05 2016 23:57 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 23:55 -Archangel- wrote:On April 05 2016 23:48 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 23:34 -Archangel- wrote:On April 05 2016 23:16 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 22:13 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2016 21:49 Thax wrote:
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Anything that pisses of goobergoobers is a win to me, no matter how poorly written. You trolls get worked up over the most ridiculous shit, then throw a tantrum when called out on it, yet somehow "SJW" are ruining things. Uhu. The lack of self-awareness is staggering. “SJW, ruining video games by forcing trans characters into a world filled with elves and dragons.” I, too, am enjoying the fake internet outrage and the fear of the SJW bogyman here to force their political agenda on video games. Mind you, its not like games were devoid of politics if they don't have trans characters, but never mind that. You have got to stop this ridiculous reductio ad absurdum way of spamming these forums. Keep it in the US politics thread where it apparently belongs. The criticisms of the trans cleric is not the presence of said person, it is the shitty characterwriting of said person (which multiple trans people (hurr durr on the internet everyone can be a trans) have pointed out as well). So what? Show me another game where people make such big problem because of one not good enough conversation that does not involve LGBT? You don't have it? You don't say. How unexpected. I am not part of LGBT community and don't really care what happens in that world (I consider myself neutral on the whole issue) but acting like this shitshow that happened around this expansion is just about bad writing is insulting to any intelligent person. If you want to argue, how about you let me present my arguments and focus on presenting yours? People complain about bad writing all the time - likely because very often games are poorly written (or have a bad story but are well written). Take the shitstorm following ME:3 and their ending. Shit, take Starcraft 2 on these very forums and the shitshow we saw after all of the 3 expansions complaining about the story. The third time it was kept to a dull roar because most had come to expect a shitty story which might explain why you don't remember it. There is a reason why Half Life 3 has not been produced yet and it is not because they are afraid of it not selling, but because it can ONLY disappoint. The shitshow that is happening around this expansion is akin to what happened with the new trilogy of Star Wars (1-3) compared to the originals (4-6). There is a lot of nostalgia surrounding the BG-series and this expansion is buggy, poorly written, and failed to live up to the hype. This shitshow is literally no different than any of the above mentioned - except that this time a trans character is in the midst of it because the trans cleric is the best and most obvious example of how shit the writing is. EDIT: I'm going to ignore Plansix from now on. If you haven't played the game and don't understand the nostalgia of the BG-series (which as was mentioned above has actually always been rather ambiguous about the whole gender/sexuality-theme) then you really don't understand what is going on. A trans character is more than welcome in the universe. You didn't present what I asked. Read again please and come back when you got a real example. On April 05 2016 23:48 Ghostcom wrote:
This shitshow is literally no different than any of the above mentioned - except that this time a trans character is in the midst of it because the trans cleric is the best and most obvious example of how shit the writing is. You're either dishonest or staggeringly naive. This whole shitstorm would never have gone down like this if it wasn't about a trans character. The writing of the new content of the Enhanced Editions of BG1&2 has always been of contentious quality, but it has never before led to such a wide scale organised bombing of the review scores across every relevant website with each and every negative review just happening to be composed of the same checklist of arguments, slightly rephrased. It's basic goobergoober MO that happens everytime they get worked up over "SJW" things i.e. people not being homophobic, sexist assholes in media. Its is weird, because poorly written characters have existed in many games on mass. The fact this one is getting such special attention is baffling since it is just a back story to a minor character. On a side note: Our Lord and Savior, Ed Greenwood had some stuff to say about all of this: https://www.facebook.com/TheEdVerse/?fref=nfI am saddened by what I hear of the current kerfluffle raging about Siege of Dragonspear and the trans character Amber Scott designed and included in it.
Folks, the Realms have ALWAYS had characters (mortals and deities) who crossdressed, changed gender (and not just to sneak past guards in an adventure, by way of shapeshifting magic or illusions), were actively bisexual, and openly gay. How underscored this was by TSR and later Wizards varied over time, and was always softpedaled, because D&D wasn't a sex game, and we generally don't rub the reader's nose in sex unless there's a good in-story reason for it.
But even deities have changed gender, sometimes for good, and the servants of deities (Elminster, in ELMINSTER: THE MAKING OF A MAGE) have sometimes been forced by the deity to "spend time as the other" to learn what life is like.
So it has always been there, and is an integral part of the Realms. With that said, I've never met a gamer yet who doesn't tinker with every adventure to "make it their own" at their own gaming table, so if trans, LGBT, or sexual matters at all don't suit your tastes and needs in your gaming sessions, leave it out or change it.
But D&D has half-orcs, and half-dragons, and half-elves, and has magic items that specifically change gender, right there in the rules. Surely, if you can handle the basic notion of cross-SPECIES sex, having a full variety of gender roles should be something that doesn't blow your mind. If it's not for you, that's fine. I hate wearing certain shades of yellow. But I don't scream and yell at someone I see wearing those shades of yellow, and call them names, and threaten things. My right to dislike yellow applies to me; it doesn't extend to others. Because somehow, through an incredible oversight on the part of the universe that still hasn't been rectified, no one made me a god. (I'm still crushed.)
And another thing: I have always felt HONOURED to have met, worked with, and enjoyed the work of so many talented women in all of my professional fields (library work has traditionally been dominated by females, gaming hasn't, and fiction-writing was male-dominated when I was young, but has steadily shifted throughout my lifetime). Does Paul Jaquays becoming Jennell Jaquays rob his, now her, artwork or game design or prose of one iota of its richness and the enjoyment it gives me? NO! And how by the Nine flaming Hells does one human being made happier by being the gender they prefer to be lessen my own security, or happiness, or make my life the less?
Sheesh.
The world has REAL problems, people. Telling someone else how to behave in bed (or dress, or what jobs they can hold down) isn't one of them. Or shouldn't be. Look, if you're actually insisting on having a conversation about this you have to look at the actual facts of the case. "So what if it's badly written?" is not a valid argument when you're dealing with a character specifically inserted to fit a social agenda AND badly represents that social agenda making it incredibly jarring in context. It has nothing to do with whether or not trans people could exist in DnD (they obviously can), whether or not they should (they should), but it has everything to do with this character being designed not to represent an actual trans person, but as a token character meant to satisfy a social checklist and generate controversy. And that's not me making that argument, that's the woman who WROTE THE CHARACTER outright saying that. Look, saying it wouldn't be as big a deal if the character weren't trans dodges the point. The only reason the character is trans is because that's the new social issue at the forefront of American society, not just on the internet, and the writer wanted to pick at that nerve. Again, it's not just the bigots that hate the character, it's the trans people themselves and pretty much everyone in between. And serious people aren't advocating for the removal of the character, they're just advocating for people to not buy a game from a developer that sacrifices story and immersion for hamfisted pushing of social issues. Bottom line: It's getting a reaction because the writer wanted it to get a reaction.
Judging from what you say the author and the company wanted and the reaction it has received the author has done a splendid job. Sounds like achieved what it set out to do.
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For people thinking we believe they are objecting about this LGBT content because of "bad writing". This guy nails it:
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/740818/#Comment_740818
And just to add, with reference to critiquing the quality of writing in Siege of Dragonspear, I shall repost an observation I made on another thread about my current no-reload run of BGEE. (I am now in the city itself, if anyone is interested, and going strong!)
In my current no-reload run of BGEE I broke into a womans house in the middle of the night by forcing the door open (I know, I'm not proud of my actions). The woman's immeadiate reaction was to tell me to keep the noise down. I then proceeded to ask the woman whether she had any information on the mines. Her response wasn't to call the guards, or scream at me to get out, or to beg for her life, but instead to tell this well armed bunch of adventurers and killers that men have been dissapearing from the mines, and that her husband works their but hasn't been home for weeks.
Now, I know its a game. I know its not real. But when confronted by a bunch of well armed burglars who have broken into my house in the middle of the night, I know what my first thought/reaction would be. And it wouldn't be to ask them to keep the nosie down, and then have a conversation about my husband/wife's workplace.
Is this an example of bad writing? Has the forum been inundated by posts over the last few days that this example of bad writing needs removing. That it needs to be rewritten. That it breaks people's immersion in the game? That it ruins their overall enjoyment of BGEE and warrants a score of 0 out of 10 for the whole game on so many game review sites?
Anyway, as I said when I posted this observation earlier, I didn't dwell on the incident, took the ring back and she was happy. Job done!
Actually, and what I didn't admit earlier, was that I had already cleared out the mines and had the ring in my possession, and I smashed down that poor woman's door to trigger the quest and then immeadiately give her the ring. It was still job done though!
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On April 07 2016 04:06 -Archangel- wrote:For people thinking we believe they are objecting about this LGBT content because of "bad writing". This guy nails it: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/740818/#Comment_740818Show nested quote +And just to add, with reference to critiquing the quality of writing in Siege of Dragonspear, I shall repost an observation I made on another thread about my current no-reload run of BGEE. (I am now in the city itself, if anyone is interested, and going strong!)
In my current no-reload run of BGEE I broke into a womans house in the middle of the night by forcing the door open (I know, I'm not proud of my actions). The woman's immeadiate reaction was to tell me to keep the noise down. I then proceeded to ask the woman whether she had any information on the mines. Her response wasn't to call the guards, or scream at me to get out, or to beg for her life, but instead to tell this well armed bunch of adventurers and killers that men have been dissapearing from the mines, and that her husband works their but hasn't been home for weeks.
Now, I know its a game. I know its not real. But when confronted by a bunch of well armed burglars who have broken into my house in the middle of the night, I know what my first thought/reaction would be. And it wouldn't be to ask them to keep the nosie down, and then have a conversation about my husband/wife's workplace.
Is this an example of bad writing? Has the forum been inundated by posts over the last few days that this example of bad writing needs removing. That it needs to be rewritten. That it breaks people's immersion in the game? That it ruins their overall enjoyment of BGEE and warrants a score of 0 out of 10 for the whole game on so many game review sites?
Anyway, as I said when I posted this observation earlier, I didn't dwell on the incident, took the ring back and she was happy. Job done!
Actually, and what I didn't admit earlier, was that I had already cleared out the mines and had the ring in my possession, and I smashed down that poor woman's door to trigger the quest and then immeadiately give her the ring. It was still job done though!
So an example of a 16+ year game engine being buggy and handling triggers poorly is your best evidence for why any critique of a 2016 released expansion which was touted as BG 2.0 yet had a poorly written antagonist, a much more linear gameplay than the original series, violated well-established characters and lore, and on top of that created a character whose entire purpose is to be trans must be due to trans-phobia...
Seriously, it must be possible to offer valid critique of games - even of those that are self-proclaimed progressive and inclusive.
EDIT: Also, the original BG was released on 6 discs with one of the most ambitious open world settings of it's time. To expect such an engine (although updated for EE edition) to handle triggers to every potential permutation of decisions in such a game is incredibly optimistic at best.
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This has nothing to do with triggers. The quests was just designed and characters as lore dumps and quest givers. Some other characters in BG1 do scream at you for entering and telling you to leave or they will call guards.
This one is just a poorly written character that the game was full of. But now another badly written one, everyone screams about while pretending it is not about LGBT. Yea right.
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On April 07 2016 05:53 -Archangel- wrote:
This has nothing to do with triggers. The quests was just designed and characters as lore dumps and quest givers. Some other characters in BG1 do scream at you for entering and telling you to leave or they will call guards.
This one is just a poorly written character that the game was full of. But now another badly written one, everyone screams about while pretending it is not about LGBT. Yea right.
The other characters were scripted to scream at you for entering and telling you to leave or they will call guards. This one character which was part of a quest was obviously scripted to, you know, fulfill her role in the quest. That a 16+ years old engine fails to give her different dialog depending on how someone entered her house and the timing of it is not so much due to lazy writing as it is the software limits and the fact that the game was incredibly ambitious in what it did.
EDIT: You do realize I'm not saying no one is complaining merely because they dislike having a trans cleric right? I'm certain there are a couple of idiots out there doing exactly that, but to treat all the critique that has been raised against the game as falling in this category is flat out wrong. The vast majority of the criticism the game has received has been entirely warranted.
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The grand tradition of breaking into people’s houses and waking them up to complete quests must continue until the end of video games. We cannot change this fundamental part of the RPG experience.
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On April 07 2016 06:14 Plansix wrote:
The grand tradition of breaking into people’s houses and waking them up to complete quests must continue until the end of video games. We cannot change this fundamental part of the RPG experience.
Did this comment in any way make sense to yourself? Or was it just a continuation of the grand tradition of you making moronic reductionist comments in an attempt to sabotage every single thread on TL?
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It's just Plansix being Plansix 
As for as the complaints go i do think the majority of them is the Social Agenda thing, and yea i agree that some of the people might be using bad writing or bugs as an excuse (although these are legit complaints in their own right). It doesn't bother me enough to not buy the game but i think anyone complaining about politics and agenda's in video games is justified and i respect there opinion 100%.
The alternative would be to ignore it completely like some people would want you to, but then what would the video games industry be like in some years time if it continues. It's a shame Beamdog learned a harsh lesson from this but i hope other dev's take note of it.
Video games are supposed to be fun, keep your bs out of them, thanks.
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Is online glitchy?
I can't play this with a friend.
We just... can't connect. /;
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On April 07 2016 06:20 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2016 06:14 Plansix wrote:
The grand tradition of breaking into people’s houses and waking them up to complete quests must continue until the end of video games. We cannot change this fundamental part of the RPG experience. Did this comment in any way make sense to yourself? Or was it just a continuation of the grand tradition of you making moronic reductionist comments in an attempt to sabotage every single thread on TL?
Man, you are one humorless person, aren’t you? Almost every open ended RPG from BG to Skyrim has allowed us to break into people homes for the sole reason of completing quests. We get arrested for non-quest givers houses, but not quest givers. Which is fucking hilarious if you stop and think about it; that all these games put in this effort to create homes and people with jobs to live in them. But when it’s a quest giver, they all default to “Fuck it you can break into their house to move the quest line forward. I don’t have time to program that shit.”
I expect is amazing, comical tradition to continue for another 10 years of development.
And Beamdog responded:
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/51161/beamdog-statement-on-siege-of-dragonspear/
TLDR: We are keeping trans characters in our game because we, as a group, want them. We will work on the writing.
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On April 07 2016 06:48 Trozz wrote:
Is online glitchy?
I can't play this with a friend.
We just... can't connect. /;
Yes not working properly/if at all at the moment. One of the legit bugs i just mentioned.
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Glad it's not just me.
There's at least hope for a patch.
Hope that gets sorted.
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Sucks to see all this drama around this beloved franchise. I won't be getting this game until after I play through Dark Souls 3 a few times (doing that game at launch with its community seems a tad more beneficial). Until I see all of this in the context of the game I won't be able to decide for myself how inappropriate, or otherwise, the changes are.
I am certainly apprehensive at changing character attitudes though. The LGBT thing seems more whatever, but that all depends on how the character is done I suppose. They are removing the gamergate line it seems, so I won't have to put up with that at least.
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On April 06 2016 23:37 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2016 23:19 Thax wrote:On April 05 2016 23:57 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 23:55 -Archangel- wrote:On April 05 2016 23:48 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 23:34 -Archangel- wrote:On April 05 2016 23:16 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 22:13 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2016 21:49 Thax wrote:On April 05 2016 17:33 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well if Minsc making jokes about gamergate is what you want in a Baldurs Gate game then go for it.
Personally im sick of SJWs ruining everything they touch.This one gets thrown to the curb with the new ghostbusters movie for me. Anything that pisses of goobergoobers is a win to me, no matter how poorly written. You trolls get worked up over the most ridiculous shit, then throw a tantrum when called out on it, yet somehow "SJW" are ruining things. Uhu. The lack of self-awareness is staggering. “SJW, ruining video games by forcing trans characters into a world filled with elves and dragons.” I, too, am enjoying the fake internet outrage and the fear of the SJW bogyman here to force their political agenda on video games. Mind you, its not like games were devoid of politics if they don't have trans characters, but never mind that. You have got to stop this ridiculous reductio ad absurdum way of spamming these forums. Keep it in the US politics thread where it apparently belongs. The criticisms of the trans cleric is not the presence of said person, it is the shitty characterwriting of said person (which multiple trans people (hurr durr on the internet everyone can be a trans) have pointed out as well). So what? Show me another game where people make such big problem because of one not good enough conversation that does not involve LGBT? You don't have it? You don't say. How unexpected. I am not part of LGBT community and don't really care what happens in that world (I consider myself neutral on the whole issue) but acting like this shitshow that happened around this expansion is just about bad writing is insulting to any intelligent person. If you want to argue, how about you let me present my arguments and focus on presenting yours? People complain about bad writing all the time - likely because very often games are poorly written (or have a bad story but are well written). Take the shitstorm following ME:3 and their ending. Shit, take Starcraft 2 on these very forums and the shitshow we saw after all of the 3 expansions complaining about the story. The third time it was kept to a dull roar because most had come to expect a shitty story which might explain why you don't remember it. There is a reason why Half Life 3 has not been produced yet and it is not because they are afraid of it not selling, but because it can ONLY disappoint. The shitshow that is happening around this expansion is akin to what happened with the new trilogy of Star Wars (1-3) compared to the originals (4-6). There is a lot of nostalgia surrounding the BG-series and this expansion is buggy, poorly written, and failed to live up to the hype. This shitshow is literally no different than any of the above mentioned - except that this time a trans character is in the midst of it because the trans cleric is the best and most obvious example of how shit the writing is. EDIT: I'm going to ignore Plansix from now on. If you haven't played the game and don't understand the nostalgia of the BG-series (which as was mentioned above has actually always been rather ambiguous about the whole gender/sexuality-theme) then you really don't understand what is going on. A trans character is more than welcome in the universe. You didn't present what I asked. Read again please and come back when you got a real example. On April 05 2016 23:48 Ghostcom wrote:
This shitshow is literally no different than any of the above mentioned - except that this time a trans character is in the midst of it because the trans cleric is the best and most obvious example of how shit the writing is. You're either dishonest or staggeringly naive. This whole shitstorm would never have gone down like this if it wasn't about a trans character. The writing of the new content of the Enhanced Editions of BG1&2 has always been of contentious quality, but it has never before led to such a wide scale organised bombing of the review scores across every relevant website with each and every negative review just happening to be composed of the same checklist of arguments, slightly rephrased. It's basic goobergoober MO that happens everytime they get worked up over "SJW" things i.e. people not being homophobic, sexist assholes in media. If you read the negative reviews, some of the most scathing ones are from trans people, which kind of blows your theory out of the water. The issue is that her dialogue is basically, "HI, I AM A TRANS CHARACTER, I DO TRANS THINGS, YOU SHOULDN'T HATE ME BECAUSE I'M TRANS", which makes her the worst kind of token character. It's beyond bad writing, it's offensive to the source material. The writer even said the only reason that she put the character in was to push a social agenda and she didn't care that the dialogue was "fake or forced" (her words not mine). If you want references, look up my previous post and go through the articles and GoG reviews.
You're not getting it. It's exactly 1 line from 1 character in an entire game with hundreds of thousands of lines from hundreds of characters. It could be the fucking worst offense to inclusive writing in the history of poor writing, and it still wouldn't justify the ridiculous overreaction you're seeing on every site with user reviews and coments on the net.
And I have read reviews, on GoG, and other places, and forum posts and whatever and, duh, of course there's valid criticism there from people with real grievances. Mostly its the usual cut and paste comment spam and review bombing directed from some neckbeard subforum or another.
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On April 06 2016 23:49 chocorush wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2016 23:19 Thax wrote:On April 05 2016 23:57 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 23:55 -Archangel- wrote:On April 05 2016 23:48 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 23:34 -Archangel- wrote:On April 05 2016 23:16 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 22:13 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2016 21:49 Thax wrote:On April 05 2016 17:33 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well if Minsc making jokes about gamergate is what you want in a Baldurs Gate game then go for it.
Personally im sick of SJWs ruining everything they touch.This one gets thrown to the curb with the new ghostbusters movie for me. Anything that pisses of goobergoobers is a win to me, no matter how poorly written. You trolls get worked up over the most ridiculous shit, then throw a tantrum when called out on it, yet somehow "SJW" are ruining things. Uhu. The lack of self-awareness is staggering. “SJW, ruining video games by forcing trans characters into a world filled with elves and dragons.” I, too, am enjoying the fake internet outrage and the fear of the SJW bogyman here to force their political agenda on video games. Mind you, its not like games were devoid of politics if they don't have trans characters, but never mind that. You have got to stop this ridiculous reductio ad absurdum way of spamming these forums. Keep it in the US politics thread where it apparently belongs. The criticisms of the trans cleric is not the presence of said person, it is the shitty characterwriting of said person (which multiple trans people (hurr durr on the internet everyone can be a trans) have pointed out as well). So what? Show me another game where people make such big problem because of one not good enough conversation that does not involve LGBT? You don't have it? You don't say. How unexpected. I am not part of LGBT community and don't really care what happens in that world (I consider myself neutral on the whole issue) but acting like this shitshow that happened around this expansion is just about bad writing is insulting to any intelligent person. If you want to argue, how about you let me present my arguments and focus on presenting yours? People complain about bad writing all the time - likely because very often games are poorly written (or have a bad story but are well written). Take the shitstorm following ME:3 and their ending. Shit, take Starcraft 2 on these very forums and the shitshow we saw after all of the 3 expansions complaining about the story. The third time it was kept to a dull roar because most had come to expect a shitty story which might explain why you don't remember it. There is a reason why Half Life 3 has not been produced yet and it is not because they are afraid of it not selling, but because it can ONLY disappoint. The shitshow that is happening around this expansion is akin to what happened with the new trilogy of Star Wars (1-3) compared to the originals (4-6). There is a lot of nostalgia surrounding the BG-series and this expansion is buggy, poorly written, and failed to live up to the hype. This shitshow is literally no different than any of the above mentioned - except that this time a trans character is in the midst of it because the trans cleric is the best and most obvious example of how shit the writing is. EDIT: I'm going to ignore Plansix from now on. If you haven't played the game and don't understand the nostalgia of the BG-series (which as was mentioned above has actually always been rather ambiguous about the whole gender/sexuality-theme) then you really don't understand what is going on. A trans character is more than welcome in the universe. You didn't present what I asked. Read again please and come back when you got a real example. On April 05 2016 23:48 Ghostcom wrote:
This shitshow is literally no different than any of the above mentioned - except that this time a trans character is in the midst of it because the trans cleric is the best and most obvious example of how shit the writing is. You're either dishonest or staggeringly naive. This whole shitstorm would never have gone down like this if it wasn't about a trans character. The writing of the new content of the Enhanced Editions of BG1&2 has always been of contentious quality, but it has never before led to such a wide scale organised bombing of the review scores across every relevant website with each and every negative review just happening to be composed of the same checklist of arguments, slightly rephrased. It's basic goobergoober MO that happens everytime they get worked up over "SJW" things i.e. people not being homophobic, sexist assholes in media. Are you implying that everyone here who doesn't like the state of the game is doing it because of gamergate? That's a pretty bold claim, and a strange one because the people who keep up bringing up gamergate specifically are on your side of the argument.
Good thing I never made any such claim then. I'm "implying" that the way the backlash against this game has blown up is being driven by goobergoobers* getting all worked up in a tizzy again by everything that might conceivably be perceived as "SJW" aka someone not being a raging homophobic/sexist/transphobic asshole. I'm also "implying" that you're either a dishonest person or a naive person if you claim that all this backlash has nothing to do with the inclusion of a trans character, when it is the common issue brought up in goodly chunk of the negative, suspiciously similarly phrased "reviews" that just sprouted up all suspiciously around the same time a suspiciously short time after the game's release. Not to mention the youtube rants from the usual angry nerds and comments on the more enlightened subforums in places such as reddit and 4chan.
Compare it too the ridiculous "Rey is a Mary Sue!" thing that was doing the rounds after The Force Awakens came out. It is true? Yes. So, that makes it a valid criticism right? Especially one which we should repeat ad nauseam in Youtube comments and mention at least once in every suspiciously similarly worded review we'll be spamming onto Imdb on other places right? No. You know why? Here's a short, but most certainly not definitive, list of some Mary Sue characters in popular movies that for some mysterious reason didn't sprout a mass condemnation of their Mary Sue-ism: Superman, Batman, Iron Man, Captain America-man, Luke Skywalker-man, Rambo-man, Conan-man ... I think you get the idea.
Edit: HAHAHAHA. I went and watched the Rogue One trailer just after posting this, and it's happening again! I'm so cracking up.
*note: goobergoober is my catch all phrase including actual goobergoobers, but also other assorted youtube and twitter trolls who get horrifically upset about the fact that Star Wars has a female jedi now, black people can be potus, your videogames might contain gender issues and dude Shepherd kisses other dudes. on. the. mouth.
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On April 07 2016 05:59 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2016 05:53 -Archangel- wrote:
This has nothing to do with triggers. The quests was just designed and characters as lore dumps and quest givers. Some other characters in BG1 do scream at you for entering and telling you to leave or they will call guards.
This one is just a poorly written character that the game was full of. But now another badly written one, everyone screams about while pretending it is not about LGBT. Yea right. The other characters were scripted to scream at you for entering and telling you to leave or they will call guards. This one character which was part of a quest was obviously scripted to, you know, fulfill her role in the quest. That a 16+ years old engine fails to give her different dialog depending on how someone entered her house and the timing of it is not so much due to lazy writing as it is the software limits and the fact that the game was incredibly ambitious in what it did. EDIT: You do realize I'm not saying no one is complaining merely because they dislike having a trans cleric right? I'm certain there are a couple of idiots out there doing exactly that, but to treat all the critique that has been raised against the game as falling in this category is flat out wrong. The vast majority of the criticism the game has received has been entirely warranted.
Of the first 5 reviews on GoG, 3 openly mention "political or social issues" or "tone" or however they try to mask it. It has 33 pages of reviews, which is *a lot* for a game that has been out this short, and a goodly chunk of those are like that. Come on dude.
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On April 08 2016 04:55 Thax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2016 23:49 chocorush wrote:On April 06 2016 23:19 Thax wrote:On April 05 2016 23:57 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 23:55 -Archangel- wrote:On April 05 2016 23:48 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 23:34 -Archangel- wrote:On April 05 2016 23:16 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 22:13 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2016 21:49 Thax wrote:
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Anything that pisses of goobergoobers is a win to me, no matter how poorly written. You trolls get worked up over the most ridiculous shit, then throw a tantrum when called out on it, yet somehow "SJW" are ruining things. Uhu. The lack of self-awareness is staggering. “SJW, ruining video games by forcing trans characters into a world filled with elves and dragons.” I, too, am enjoying the fake internet outrage and the fear of the SJW bogyman here to force their political agenda on video games. Mind you, its not like games were devoid of politics if they don't have trans characters, but never mind that. You have got to stop this ridiculous reductio ad absurdum way of spamming these forums. Keep it in the US politics thread where it apparently belongs. The criticisms of the trans cleric is not the presence of said person, it is the shitty characterwriting of said person (which multiple trans people (hurr durr on the internet everyone can be a trans) have pointed out as well). So what? Show me another game where people make such big problem because of one not good enough conversation that does not involve LGBT? You don't have it? You don't say. How unexpected. I am not part of LGBT community and don't really care what happens in that world (I consider myself neutral on the whole issue) but acting like this shitshow that happened around this expansion is just about bad writing is insulting to any intelligent person. If you want to argue, how about you let me present my arguments and focus on presenting yours? People complain about bad writing all the time - likely because very often games are poorly written (or have a bad story but are well written). Take the shitstorm following ME:3 and their ending. Shit, take Starcraft 2 on these very forums and the shitshow we saw after all of the 3 expansions complaining about the story. The third time it was kept to a dull roar because most had come to expect a shitty story which might explain why you don't remember it. There is a reason why Half Life 3 has not been produced yet and it is not because they are afraid of it not selling, but because it can ONLY disappoint. The shitshow that is happening around this expansion is akin to what happened with the new trilogy of Star Wars (1-3) compared to the originals (4-6). There is a lot of nostalgia surrounding the BG-series and this expansion is buggy, poorly written, and failed to live up to the hype. This shitshow is literally no different than any of the above mentioned - except that this time a trans character is in the midst of it because the trans cleric is the best and most obvious example of how shit the writing is. EDIT: I'm going to ignore Plansix from now on. If you haven't played the game and don't understand the nostalgia of the BG-series (which as was mentioned above has actually always been rather ambiguous about the whole gender/sexuality-theme) then you really don't understand what is going on. A trans character is more than welcome in the universe. You didn't present what I asked. Read again please and come back when you got a real example. On April 05 2016 23:48 Ghostcom wrote:
This shitshow is literally no different than any of the above mentioned - except that this time a trans character is in the midst of it because the trans cleric is the best and most obvious example of how shit the writing is. You're either dishonest or staggeringly naive. This whole shitstorm would never have gone down like this if it wasn't about a trans character. The writing of the new content of the Enhanced Editions of BG1&2 has always been of contentious quality, but it has never before led to such a wide scale organised bombing of the review scores across every relevant website with each and every negative review just happening to be composed of the same checklist of arguments, slightly rephrased. It's basic goobergoober MO that happens everytime they get worked up over "SJW" things i.e. people not being homophobic, sexist assholes in media. Are you implying that everyone here who doesn't like the state of the game is doing it because of gamergate? That's a pretty bold claim, and a strange one because the people who keep up bringing up gamergate specifically are on your side of the argument. getting all worked up in a tizzy again by everything that might conceivably be perceived as "SJW" aka someone not being a raging homophobic/sexist/transphobic asshole. .
Probably the most stereotypical liberal comment i have seen in a long time, im curious if you actually understand what you just said.
Today i learned that anyone that dislikes putting social agenda's in video games is a "raging" homophobic/sexist/tansphobic and lets put racist aswell because why not? that seems the logic your going for here.
Amazing how upset you get over this that you feel the need to embarrass yourself like that, what a moronic comment
The irony is that its people like you that are escalating the whole situation in the first place
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On April 08 2016 05:12 Reaps wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 04:55 Thax wrote:On April 06 2016 23:49 chocorush wrote:On April 06 2016 23:19 Thax wrote:On April 05 2016 23:57 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 23:55 -Archangel- wrote:On April 05 2016 23:48 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 23:34 -Archangel- wrote:On April 05 2016 23:16 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 22:13 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
“SJW, ruining video games by forcing trans characters into a world filled with elves and dragons.”
I, too, am enjoying the fake internet outrage and the fear of the SJW bogyman here to force their political agenda on video games. Mind you, its not like games were devoid of politics if they don't have trans characters, but never mind that. You have got to stop this ridiculous reductio ad absurdum way of spamming these forums. Keep it in the US politics thread where it apparently belongs. The criticisms of the trans cleric is not the presence of said person, it is the shitty characterwriting of said person (which multiple trans people (hurr durr on the internet everyone can be a trans) have pointed out as well). So what? Show me another game where people make such big problem because of one not good enough conversation that does not involve LGBT? You don't have it? You don't say. How unexpected. I am not part of LGBT community and don't really care what happens in that world (I consider myself neutral on the whole issue) but acting like this shitshow that happened around this expansion is just about bad writing is insulting to any intelligent person. If you want to argue, how about you let me present my arguments and focus on presenting yours? People complain about bad writing all the time - likely because very often games are poorly written (or have a bad story but are well written). Take the shitstorm following ME:3 and their ending. Shit, take Starcraft 2 on these very forums and the shitshow we saw after all of the 3 expansions complaining about the story. The third time it was kept to a dull roar because most had come to expect a shitty story which might explain why you don't remember it. There is a reason why Half Life 3 has not been produced yet and it is not because they are afraid of it not selling, but because it can ONLY disappoint. The shitshow that is happening around this expansion is akin to what happened with the new trilogy of Star Wars (1-3) compared to the originals (4-6). There is a lot of nostalgia surrounding the BG-series and this expansion is buggy, poorly written, and failed to live up to the hype. This shitshow is literally no different than any of the above mentioned - except that this time a trans character is in the midst of it because the trans cleric is the best and most obvious example of how shit the writing is. EDIT: I'm going to ignore Plansix from now on. If you haven't played the game and don't understand the nostalgia of the BG-series (which as was mentioned above has actually always been rather ambiguous about the whole gender/sexuality-theme) then you really don't understand what is going on. A trans character is more than welcome in the universe. You didn't present what I asked. Read again please and come back when you got a real example. On April 05 2016 23:48 Ghostcom wrote:
This shitshow is literally no different than any of the above mentioned - except that this time a trans character is in the midst of it because the trans cleric is the best and most obvious example of how shit the writing is. You're either dishonest or staggeringly naive. This whole shitstorm would never have gone down like this if it wasn't about a trans character. The writing of the new content of the Enhanced Editions of BG1&2 has always been of contentious quality, but it has never before led to such a wide scale organised bombing of the review scores across every relevant website with each and every negative review just happening to be composed of the same checklist of arguments, slightly rephrased. It's basic goobergoober MO that happens everytime they get worked up over "SJW" things i.e. people not being homophobic, sexist assholes in media. Are you implying that everyone here who doesn't like the state of the game is doing it because of gamergate? That's a pretty bold claim, and a strange one because the people who keep up bringing up gamergate specifically are on your side of the argument. getting all worked up in a tizzy again by everything that might conceivably be perceived as "SJW" aka someone not being a raging homophobic/sexist/transphobic asshole. . Probably the most stereotypical liberal comment i have seen in a long time, im curious if you actually understand what you just said. Today i learned that anyone that dislikes putting social agenda's in video games is a "raging" homophobic/sexist/tansphobic and lets put racist aswell because why not? that seems the logic your going for here. Amazing how upset you get over this that you feel the need to embarrass yourself like that, what a moronic comment The irony is that its people like you that is escalating the whole situation in the first place
I actually thought I did put racist in there. Must've skipped it.
So, why, exactly, then do you have a problem with a gay person being in your video game when you have no problem with gay people? Honestly I'd love the get a proper answer to this.
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On April 08 2016 05:15 Thax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 05:12 Reaps wrote:On April 08 2016 04:55 Thax wrote:On April 06 2016 23:49 chocorush wrote:On April 06 2016 23:19 Thax wrote:On April 05 2016 23:57 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 23:55 -Archangel- wrote:On April 05 2016 23:48 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 23:34 -Archangel- wrote:On April 05 2016 23:16 Ghostcom wrote:
[quote]
You have got to stop this ridiculous reductio ad absurdum way of spamming these forums. Keep it in the US politics thread where it apparently belongs. The criticisms of the trans cleric is not the presence of said person, it is the shitty characterwriting of said person (which multiple trans people (hurr durr on the internet everyone can be a trans) have pointed out as well). So what? Show me another game where people make such big problem because of one not good enough conversation that does not involve LGBT? You don't have it? You don't say. How unexpected. I am not part of LGBT community and don't really care what happens in that world (I consider myself neutral on the whole issue) but acting like this shitshow that happened around this expansion is just about bad writing is insulting to any intelligent person. If you want to argue, how about you let me present my arguments and focus on presenting yours? People complain about bad writing all the time - likely because very often games are poorly written (or have a bad story but are well written). Take the shitstorm following ME:3 and their ending. Shit, take Starcraft 2 on these very forums and the shitshow we saw after all of the 3 expansions complaining about the story. The third time it was kept to a dull roar because most had come to expect a shitty story which might explain why you don't remember it. There is a reason why Half Life 3 has not been produced yet and it is not because they are afraid of it not selling, but because it can ONLY disappoint. The shitshow that is happening around this expansion is akin to what happened with the new trilogy of Star Wars (1-3) compared to the originals (4-6). There is a lot of nostalgia surrounding the BG-series and this expansion is buggy, poorly written, and failed to live up to the hype. This shitshow is literally no different than any of the above mentioned - except that this time a trans character is in the midst of it because the trans cleric is the best and most obvious example of how shit the writing is. EDIT: I'm going to ignore Plansix from now on. If you haven't played the game and don't understand the nostalgia of the BG-series (which as was mentioned above has actually always been rather ambiguous about the whole gender/sexuality-theme) then you really don't understand what is going on. A trans character is more than welcome in the universe. You didn't present what I asked. Read again please and come back when you got a real example. On April 05 2016 23:48 Ghostcom wrote:
This shitshow is literally no different than any of the above mentioned - except that this time a trans character is in the midst of it because the trans cleric is the best and most obvious example of how shit the writing is. You're either dishonest or staggeringly naive. This whole shitstorm would never have gone down like this if it wasn't about a trans character. The writing of the new content of the Enhanced Editions of BG1&2 has always been of contentious quality, but it has never before led to such a wide scale organised bombing of the review scores across every relevant website with each and every negative review just happening to be composed of the same checklist of arguments, slightly rephrased. It's basic goobergoober MO that happens everytime they get worked up over "SJW" things i.e. people not being homophobic, sexist assholes in media. Are you implying that everyone here who doesn't like the state of the game is doing it because of gamergate? That's a pretty bold claim, and a strange one because the people who keep up bringing up gamergate specifically are on your side of the argument. getting all worked up in a tizzy again by everything that might conceivably be perceived as "SJW" aka someone not being a raging homophobic/sexist/transphobic asshole. . Probably the most stereotypical liberal comment i have seen in a long time, im curious if you actually understand what you just said. Today i learned that anyone that dislikes putting social agenda's in video games is a "raging" homophobic/sexist/tansphobic and lets put racist aswell because why not? that seems the logic your going for here. Amazing how upset you get over this that you feel the need to embarrass yourself like that, what a moronic comment The irony is that its people like you that is escalating the whole situation in the first place I actually thought I did put racist in there. Must've skipped it. So, why, exactly, then do you have a problem with a gay person being in your video game when you have no problem with gay people? Honestly I'd love the get a proper answer to this.
As i said before, me personally i have no problem with it, it doesn't bother me. I bought the game already. As for the people that are complaining about it, they don't want any social agenda's or politics in their video games, and i dont see whats wrong with that. Video games are supposed to be fun, its most likely just the "principle" of it. You'd have to ask some of them, but calling them racists or whatever else you mentioned makes you look worse than any of the kids crying about "SJW's"
It's not the fact they added a gay or trans person, its the fact they added it to try and score points with a certain group.
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The problem that their “social agenda” is just another players “normal”. For someone who is gay, being a gay character in a view game is normal. Being around characters is normal.
So when people ask for “no social agendas or politics” they are asking for the game to be designed in a way that makes them most comfortable. That the content doesn’t speak to them, so it someone pushing something on them.
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EPT
