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Denmark4783 Posts
On April 05 2016 23:57 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2016 23:48 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 23:34 -Archangel- wrote:On April 05 2016 23:16 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 22:13 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2016 21:49 Thax wrote:On April 05 2016 17:33 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well if Minsc making jokes about gamergate is what you want in a Baldurs Gate game then go for it.
Personally im sick of SJWs ruining everything they touch.This one gets thrown to the curb with the new ghostbusters movie for me. Anything that pisses of goobergoobers is a win to me, no matter how poorly written. You trolls get worked up over the most ridiculous shit, then throw a tantrum when called out on it, yet somehow "SJW" are ruining things. Uhu. The lack of self-awareness is staggering. “SJW, ruining video games by forcing trans characters into a world filled with elves and dragons.” I, too, am enjoying the fake internet outrage and the fear of the SJW bogyman here to force their political agenda on video games. Mind you, its not like games were devoid of politics if they don't have trans characters, but never mind that. You have got to stop this ridiculous reductio ad absurdum way of spamming these forums. Keep it in the US politics thread where it apparently belongs. The criticisms of the trans cleric is not the presence of said person, it is the shitty characterwriting of said person (which multiple trans people (hurr durr on the internet everyone can be a trans) have pointed out as well). So what? Show me another game where people make such big problem because of one not good enough conversation that does not involve LGBT? You don't have it? You don't say. How unexpected. I am not part of LGBT community and don't really care what happens in that world (I consider myself neutral on the whole issue) but acting like this shitshow that happened around this expansion is just about bad writing is insulting to any intelligent person. EDIT: I'm going to ignore Plansix from now on. If you haven't played the game and don't understand the nostalgia of the BG-series (which as was mentioned above has actually always been rather ambiguous about the whole gender/sexuality-theme) then you really don't understand what is going on. A trans character is more than welcome in the universe. That might be your opinion and that is great, but there are a lot of people making noise that trans characters shouldn't be in the game at all. Or at least that seems to be a lot of the focus with the review bombing on steam. I am sure that isn't reflective of the majority BG fans, but it is a thing that is happening.
Aren't you usually the one so busy telling everyone not to judge by the loud minority?
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On April 05 2016 23:59 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2016 23:57 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2016 23:48 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 23:34 -Archangel- wrote:On April 05 2016 23:16 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 22:13 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2016 21:49 Thax wrote:On April 05 2016 17:33 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well if Minsc making jokes about gamergate is what you want in a Baldurs Gate game then go for it.
Personally im sick of SJWs ruining everything they touch.This one gets thrown to the curb with the new ghostbusters movie for me. Anything that pisses of goobergoobers is a win to me, no matter how poorly written. You trolls get worked up over the most ridiculous shit, then throw a tantrum when called out on it, yet somehow "SJW" are ruining things. Uhu. The lack of self-awareness is staggering. “SJW, ruining video games by forcing trans characters into a world filled with elves and dragons.” I, too, am enjoying the fake internet outrage and the fear of the SJW bogyman here to force their political agenda on video games. Mind you, its not like games were devoid of politics if they don't have trans characters, but never mind that. You have got to stop this ridiculous reductio ad absurdum way of spamming these forums. Keep it in the US politics thread where it apparently belongs. The criticisms of the trans cleric is not the presence of said person, it is the shitty characterwriting of said person (which multiple trans people (hurr durr on the internet everyone can be a trans) have pointed out as well). So what? Show me another game where people make such big problem because of one not good enough conversation that does not involve LGBT? You don't have it? You don't say. How unexpected. I am not part of LGBT community and don't really care what happens in that world (I consider myself neutral on the whole issue) but acting like this shitshow that happened around this expansion is just about bad writing is insulting to any intelligent person. EDIT: I'm going to ignore Plansix from now on. If you haven't played the game and don't understand the nostalgia of the BG-series (which as was mentioned above has actually always been rather ambiguous about the whole gender/sexuality-theme) then you really don't understand what is going on. A trans character is more than welcome in the universe. That might be your opinion and that is great, but there are a lot of people making noise that trans characters shouldn't be in the game at all. Or at least that seems to be a lot of the focus with the review bombing on steam. I am sure that isn't reflective of the majority BG fans, but it is a thing that is happening. Aren't you usually the one so busy telling everyone not to judge by the loud minority?
Yes, but I am not judging all fans. I am specifically mocking the people who are angry that a trans character is in their game featuring dragons. Those people exist and they are loud. They are loud when Bioware made Dragon Age 3 and they are loud again.
I loved the old BG games, though I don't think I could go back to that interface(plus I have so much to play).
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Denmark4783 Posts
In that case I must have misunderstood you which I'll gladly apologize for my part in, but it seemed that you were mocking all criticism of this expansion - criticism of which it is so plenty deserving and the trans character is rightfully a part of.
EDIT: It seems I have participated equally to mess up the thread for which I as stated apologise. The function to hide posters is part of TL+
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Oh god, Plansix comes to ruin the BG thread after ruining the politics thread. Is there someway I can ignore him / not see his posts?
EDIT: oh look, 3 people have ignored him in last 2 pages.
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On April 06 2016 00:07 Ghostcom wrote:
In that case I must have misunderstood you which I'll gladly apologize for my part in, but it seemed that you were mocking all criticism of this expansion - criticism of which it is so plenty deserving and the trans character is rightfully a part of.
I am sure it has flaws. I think the loud, but small group of people freaking out about a trans character existing are doing a real disservice to any real discussion about the expansion's short comings. Its one of the problems with video games criticism now, its hard to cut through the loudest screams to get to the meat of what might be the problem. And often what holds a game back isn’t the thing people are talking about. Look at this case, its not that the character is trans, its that she is one note and shallow. So people don’t want her gone, they wanted her to be better, with more depth.
Edit: Its ok, we can all mess up threads together. We are far from perfect.
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On April 05 2016 23:57 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2016 23:55 -Archangel- wrote:On April 05 2016 23:48 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 23:34 -Archangel- wrote:On April 05 2016 23:16 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 22:13 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2016 21:49 Thax wrote:On April 05 2016 17:33 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well if Minsc making jokes about gamergate is what you want in a Baldurs Gate game then go for it.
Personally im sick of SJWs ruining everything they touch.This one gets thrown to the curb with the new ghostbusters movie for me. Anything that pisses of goobergoobers is a win to me, no matter how poorly written. You trolls get worked up over the most ridiculous shit, then throw a tantrum when called out on it, yet somehow "SJW" are ruining things. Uhu. The lack of self-awareness is staggering. “SJW, ruining video games by forcing trans characters into a world filled with elves and dragons.” I, too, am enjoying the fake internet outrage and the fear of the SJW bogyman here to force their political agenda on video games. Mind you, its not like games were devoid of politics if they don't have trans characters, but never mind that. You have got to stop this ridiculous reductio ad absurdum way of spamming these forums. Keep it in the US politics thread where it apparently belongs. The criticisms of the trans cleric is not the presence of said person, it is the shitty characterwriting of said person (which multiple trans people (hurr durr on the internet everyone can be a trans) have pointed out as well). So what? Show me another game where people make such big problem because of one not good enough conversation that does not involve LGBT? You don't have it? You don't say. How unexpected. I am not part of LGBT community and don't really care what happens in that world (I consider myself neutral on the whole issue) but acting like this shitshow that happened around this expansion is just about bad writing is insulting to any intelligent person. If you want to argue, how about you let me present my arguments and focus on presenting yours? People complain about bad writing all the time - likely because very often games are poorly written (or have a bad story but are well written). Take the shitstorm following ME:3 and their ending. Shit, take Starcraft 2 on these very forums and the shitshow we saw after all of the 3 expansions complaining about the story. The third time it was kept to a dull roar because most had come to expect a shitty story which might explain why you don't remember it. There is a reason why Half Life 3 has not been produced yet and it is not because they are afraid of it not selling, but because it can ONLY disappoint. The shitshow that is happening around this expansion is akin to what happened with the new trilogy of Star Wars (1-3) compared to the originals (4-6). There is a lot of nostalgia surrounding the BG-series and this expansion is buggy, poorly written, and failed to live up to the hype. This shitshow is literally no different than any of the above mentioned - except that this time a trans character is in the midst of it because the trans cleric is the best and most obvious example of how shit the writing is. EDIT: I'm going to ignore Plansix from now on. If you haven't played the game and don't understand the nostalgia of the BG-series (which as was mentioned above has actually always been rather ambiguous about the whole gender/sexuality-theme) then you really don't understand what is going on. A trans character is more than welcome in the universe. You didn't present what I asked. Read again please and come back when you got a real example. Show nested quote +On April 05 2016 23:48 Ghostcom wrote:
This shitshow is literally no different than any of the above mentioned - except that this time a trans character is in the midst of it because the trans cleric is the best and most obvious example of how shit the writing is.
And still nothing. And you got salty where I used intelligence word in my original post. Goodbye until you get some.
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Anyways for people that are thinking about playing or buying this, I am playing it and game has 0.1% of LGBT stuff and the rest is good old BG and everything (good and bad) that comes with that.
Don't let people with agendas lie to you and get you to miss what is otherwise a good and fun game .
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Denmark4783 Posts
On April 06 2016 00:19 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2016 23:57 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 23:55 -Archangel- wrote:On April 05 2016 23:48 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 23:34 -Archangel- wrote:On April 05 2016 23:16 Ghostcom wrote:On April 05 2016 22:13 Plansix wrote:On April 05 2016 21:49 Thax wrote:On April 05 2016 17:33 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well if Minsc making jokes about gamergate is what you want in a Baldurs Gate game then go for it.
Personally im sick of SJWs ruining everything they touch.This one gets thrown to the curb with the new ghostbusters movie for me. Anything that pisses of goobergoobers is a win to me, no matter how poorly written. You trolls get worked up over the most ridiculous shit, then throw a tantrum when called out on it, yet somehow "SJW" are ruining things. Uhu. The lack of self-awareness is staggering. “SJW, ruining video games by forcing trans characters into a world filled with elves and dragons.” I, too, am enjoying the fake internet outrage and the fear of the SJW bogyman here to force their political agenda on video games. Mind you, its not like games were devoid of politics if they don't have trans characters, but never mind that. You have got to stop this ridiculous reductio ad absurdum way of spamming these forums. Keep it in the US politics thread where it apparently belongs. The criticisms of the trans cleric is not the presence of said person, it is the shitty characterwriting of said person (which multiple trans people (hurr durr on the internet everyone can be a trans) have pointed out as well). So what? Show me another game where people make such big problem because of one not good enough conversation that does not involve LGBT? You don't have it? You don't say. How unexpected. I am not part of LGBT community and don't really care what happens in that world (I consider myself neutral on the whole issue) but acting like this shitshow that happened around this expansion is just about bad writing is insulting to any intelligent person. If you want to argue, how about you let me present my arguments and focus on presenting yours? People complain about bad writing all the time - likely because very often games are poorly written (or have a bad story but are well written). Take the shitstorm following ME:3 and their ending. Shit, take Starcraft 2 on these very forums and the shitshow we saw after all of the 3 expansions complaining about the story. The third time it was kept to a dull roar because most had come to expect a shitty story which might explain why you don't remember it. There is a reason why Half Life 3 has not been produced yet and it is not because they are afraid of it not selling, but because it can ONLY disappoint. The shitshow that is happening around this expansion is akin to what happened with the new trilogy of Star Wars (1-3) compared to the originals (4-6). There is a lot of nostalgia surrounding the BG-series and this expansion is buggy, poorly written, and failed to live up to the hype. This shitshow is literally no different than any of the above mentioned - except that this time a trans character is in the midst of it because the trans cleric is the best and most obvious example of how shit the writing is. EDIT: I'm going to ignore Plansix from now on. If you haven't played the game and don't understand the nostalgia of the BG-series (which as was mentioned above has actually always been rather ambiguous about the whole gender/sexuality-theme) then you really don't understand what is going on. A trans character is more than welcome in the universe. You didn't present what I asked. Read again please and come back when you got a real example. On April 05 2016 23:48 Ghostcom wrote:
This shitshow is literally no different than any of the above mentioned - except that this time a trans character is in the midst of it because the trans cleric is the best and most obvious example of how shit the writing is. And still nothing. And you got salty where I used intelligence word in my original post. Goodbye until you get some.
Thanks for the laugh
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On April 06 2016 00:21 -Archangel- wrote:
Anyways for people that are thinking about playing or buying this, I am playing it and game has 0.1% of LGBT stuff and the rest is good old BG and everything (good and bad) that comes with that.
Don't let people with agendas lie to you and get you to miss what is otherwise a good and fun game .
I don't care about the presence or non-presence of LGBT stuff, I've just seen people from both sides of the SJW split saying the writing was fucking awful (for vastly different reasons). Any opinion on that?
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On April 06 2016 01:00 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2016 00:21 -Archangel- wrote:
Anyways for people that are thinking about playing or buying this, I am playing it and game has 0.1% of LGBT stuff and the rest is good old BG and everything (good and bad) that comes with that.
Don't let people with agendas lie to you and get you to miss what is otherwise a good and fun game . I don't care about the presence or non-presence of LGBT stuff, I've just seen people from both sides of the SJW split saying the writing was fucking awful (for vastly different reasons). Any opinion on that?
If you compare it to PST, it is not good. If you compare it to Bg1 and parts of Bg2 it is up to par.
It is better than PoE as it does not have endless expositions or those useless backer NPCs with their pointless stories.
Note I have not yet finished the game. But what I seen has been of about equal quality so for now I have no reason to think the rest of the game will take a nosedive. But I play BG games mostly for combat and D&D mechanics and those are not only same but improved as these guys went out of the way to modify every encounter to be a bit different depending on what difficulty you play on (both enemies you meet and their AI).
I did run into a weak minor quest and a joke NPC that has made some people mad (mostly those that were already bashing it because of LGBT stuff and were looking for any excuse to bash it more).
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I too, would juste laugh at the situation if Beamdog wasn't such a small company... I probably would not go as far as to say they're gonna bankrupt but I would imagine they're genuinely worried for the state of their finances right now... Which is sad for all potential future BG content.
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On April 06 2016 02:23 Merany wrote:
I too, would juste laugh at the situation if Beamdog wasn't such a small company... I probably would not go as far as to say they're gonna bankrupt but I would imagine they're genuinely worried for the state of their finances right now... Which is sad for all potential future BG content.
Sadly, steamspy doesn't track DLC and expansions, but BGEE and BG2EE sold pretty damn well. Have they said something about their financial situation being in danger?
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I'm not terribly concerned. Beamdog hasn't impressed me. The enhanced editions are good but that's mainly because the original games are good. The new content they add tends to be buggy and is OK at best. cRPG may be niche but it's not dead and plenty of other people are making actual new games for it.
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I would just like to say that I think it's reasonable to be upset (even if only on a small level) that a trans character was put into the game, if you believe that the motivation to do so is more of a gimmick than it is to actually increase the quality of the game.
And as an effect of that I think it's reasonable for a person to stand against it (or anything else they think is wrong), based on principle.
I also think it's a fair opinion to not give a shit, and then furthermore I also think it's a fair opinion to be happy a trans character is introduced to the game - for whatever personal reason you may have. I think lots of different opinions regarding this stuff are fair and reasonable.
So we can share our opinions, and not be upset at each other, because more than one opinion is fine and It would be pretty hard (impossible) to say who is more right because our opinions are personal and subjective.
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Alright so I read up on this and have come to the conclusion that Beamdog are just fucking idiots. They're basically using a beloved franchise to bait gamers by pushing social agendas that we're very much split on and trying to cash in on the controversy. Apparently the game is quite buggy and the excerpts I've seen from the writing (admittedly probably the worst parts) are absolutely cringeworthy. Not gonna pick this up.
Sources:
+ Show Spoiler +
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Wow, I have time to kill so I actually read through all that.
This one is a pretty terrible failure huh. Was iplay.nettles being literal when he said that "Minsc made jokes about gamergate"? I thought he was being facetious. But after reading the articles/reviews I am not too sure, lol
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On April 06 2016 06:36 travis wrote:
Wow, I have time to kill so I actually read through all that.
This one is a pretty terrible failure huh. Was iplay.nettles being literal when he said that "Minsc made jokes about gamergate"? I thought he was being facetious. But after reading the articles/reviews I am not too sure, lol
There is a joke "its about ethics in...." the game. Its not a great joke, but it exists. I am sure someone could find the energy to be upset about its existence.
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On April 06 2016 06:36 travis wrote:
Wow, I have time to kill so I actually read through all that.
This one is a pretty terrible failure huh. Was iplay.nettles being literal when he said that "Minsc made jokes about gamergate"? I thought he was being facetious. But after reading the articles/reviews I am not too sure, lol
Apparently the line is something like "It's all about ethics in adventuring" or something like that.
Found it:
+ Show Spoiler +“Really it’s all about ethics in heroic adventuring”
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Well, it doesn't really take any energy to be against something you think is wrong. And if it does, then I think that it would be virtuous to find the energy to take any sort of stand against it.
If you don't care about that being in the game, or if you think it was a fun or good thing to have in the game - then that's cool. But if your argument is that other people shouldn't care because "it's not really a big deal", then that's a horrible argument. But you should know that. Small bad things are still bad.
edit:
regarding the line, I don't even get it. Is that like a joke, or what? Are they making fun of themselves?
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On April 06 2016 06:44 travis wrote:
Well, it doesn't really take any energy to be against something you think is wrong. And if it does, then I think that it would be virtuous to find the energy to take any sort of stand against it.
If you don't care about that being in the game, or if you think it was a fun or good thing to have in the game - then that's cool. But if your argument is that other people shouldn't care because "it's not really a big deal", then that's a horrible argument. But you should know that. Small bad things are still bad.
edit:
regarding the line, I don't even get it. Is that like a joke, or what? Are they making fun of themselves?
The phrase "its about ethics in game journalism" is a phrase that was associated with Gamergate when they would get up in arms about something. No matter what thing they latched onto, no matter how far removed from any real ethical concern, it was always "its about ethics in game journalism". As someone who deals with ethics in the very real and legal sense, it was beyond comical because the stuff they would latch onto was hilarious. They made flow charts to rival the people who think the moon landing was faked and rated different journalists on how "ethical" they were, based on a metric created by them.
It was used to often and so pervasively for all topics that it became a meme for any board-line consistency theory about video games, that was expected to end in "Really its all about ethics in game journalism". Its became a joke used by people who couldn't care less about which games journalist is corrupt because they had a beer with a developer once, because that is how interviews work.
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EPT
