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On April 08 2016 05:33 Plansix wrote:
The problem that their “social agenda” is just another players “normal”. For someone who is gay, being a gay character in a view game is normal. Being around characters is normal.
So when people ask for “no social agendas or politics” they are asking for the game to be designed in a way that makes them most comfortable. That the content doesn’t speak to them, so it someone pushing something on them.
I don't think its like that, i really doubt the majority of the people that complain feel uncomfortable with gay or trans characters.
I was one of the few people that only recently bought BG series, i never had the pleasure of playing it as i was growing up like many did, the people that did do have a special connection with the game because they played it so much and have so many good memories of it.
For example the games i played growing up would be something like the FF series, lets take FFX for example, i love that game as much as the BG fans love BG. Now lets say for example Square Enix remade FFX and they changed my favourite character Auron, for arguements sake, they made him gay. Now do i have a problem with gay people? no of course not, one of my closest friends is gay, but would i have a problem with Square Enix changing his character just to fit a certain Social Agenda? Maybe, at least i understand why there is such a uproar over SoD.
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On April 08 2016 05:40 Reaps wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 05:33 Plansix wrote:
The problem that their “social agenda” is just another players “normal”. For someone who is gay, being a gay character in a view game is normal. Being around characters is normal.
So when people ask for “no social agendas or politics” they are asking for the game to be designed in a way that makes them most comfortable. That the content doesn’t speak to them, so it someone pushing something on them. I don't think its like that, i really doubt the majority of the people that complain feel uncomfortable with gay or trans characters. I was one of the few people that only recently bought BG series, i never had the pleasure of playing it as i was growing up like many did, the people that did do have a special connection with the game because they played it so much and have so many good memories of it. For example the games i played growing up would be something like the FF series, lets take FFX for example, i love that game as much as the BG fans love BG. Now lets say for example Square Enix remade FFX and they changed my favourite character, for arguements sake, they made him gay. Now do i have a problem with gay people? no of course not, one of my closest friends is gay, but would i have a problem with Square Enix changing his character just to fit a certain Social Agenda? Maybe, at least i understand why there is such a uproar over SoD.
Sorry, I don’t see it. No character was changed, it is a new character. I don’t see the issue or an agenda being pushed. I find all of the arguments about "agendas" to be very lack luster in general. They find their roots in conservative outcries about the "LGBT agenda" and those arguments were and still are bad.
And the argument about scoring points is sort of silly, because if they remove the character or don’t have it, they are just trying to score points with a different group of people.
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The dev's themselves admitted it was for a social agenda, was an interview on Kotaku i believe.
And as for scoring points, they could just make games how most dev's do, to be as much fun as possible. There doesn't need to be a group of people they aim it at.
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On April 08 2016 05:50 Reaps wrote:
The dev's themselves admitted it was for a social agenda, was an interview on Kotaku i believe.
And as for scoring points, they could just make games how most dev's do, to be as much fun as possible. There doesn't need to be a group of people they aim it at.
What if they thought the game would be more fun for trans people if they were represented in the game?
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On April 08 2016 05:52 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 05:50 Reaps wrote:
The dev's themselves admitted it was for a social agenda, was an interview on Kotaku i believe.
And as for scoring points, they could just make games how most dev's do, to be as much fun as possible. There doesn't need to be a group of people they aim it at. What if they thought the game would be more fun for trans people if they were represented in the game?
What was stopping trans people enjoying BG games beforehand?
It's not like the actual trans people that have played the game even like the character.
Here is an example of a transgender women's feelings of the whole thing.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/228280/discussions/0/371918937272938521/
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Beamdog handled this whole situation quite bad, but at least they admit their mistakes in the end. I hope they get their shit together and make some quality stuff.
Haven't had played SoD yet, only content I really enjoyed was Neera's story and thats probably because her personality is aligned with her class. On the whole most of Beamdog's new content seemed out of place.(meeting with rashad/dorn, hexxat's dialogue)
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On April 08 2016 05:54 Reaps wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 05:52 Plansix wrote:On April 08 2016 05:50 Reaps wrote:
The dev's themselves admitted it was for a social agenda, was an interview on Kotaku i believe.
And as for scoring points, they could just make games how most dev's do, to be as much fun as possible. There doesn't need to be a group of people they aim it at. What if they thought the game would be more fun for trans people if they were represented in the game? What was stopping trans people enjoying BG games beforehand? It's not like the actual trans people that have played the game even like the character. Here is an example of a transgender women's feelings of the whole thing. http://steamcommunity.com/app/228280/discussions/0/371918937272938521/
I know several trans women who felt it the character was great, if we are going to play the “Find said minority person to agree with me, therefore I win internet argument.”
And I am going to throw it back at you, why the people complaining just enjoy the game with a trans person in it?
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We have already been through this multiple times. I dont like using the term "SJW's" i think its silly, but the complainers don't like the fact they are trying to change another thing in media, whether its video games or movies, at least that's what i gather from most of the complaints. The character in question is also poorly written with the devs again admitting that it could be better.
Like i said, ask the people that are truly complaining, because i'm busy enjoying the game, trans or not, i don't care. They can probably give you a better answer.
Just don't use the whole sexist / racist bullshit insults untill you actually have proof of them being actual sexists or racists. This is why i replied to thax in the first place, but i have gone on too long already.
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Thax is talking about the knuckle draggers who do hate trans people and don't want them in video games. Those are the same people who copy past reviews to bomb a game that does things they don't like. And send hate filled emails or death threats to a developer who changes the reload time on a sniper rifle. Of course those are a minority, but they exist, they make a lot of noise and they are hard for the developers to ignore.
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Sure those kind of people will always exist, i just don't think there as many as some people try to make out.
But there we will just have to agree to disagree.
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Denmark4783 Posts
On April 08 2016 05:43 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 05:40 Reaps wrote:On April 08 2016 05:33 Plansix wrote:
The problem that their “social agenda” is just another players “normal”. For someone who is gay, being a gay character in a view game is normal. Being around characters is normal.
So when people ask for “no social agendas or politics” they are asking for the game to be designed in a way that makes them most comfortable. That the content doesn’t speak to them, so it someone pushing something on them. I don't think its like that, i really doubt the majority of the people that complain feel uncomfortable with gay or trans characters. I was one of the few people that only recently bought BG series, i never had the pleasure of playing it as i was growing up like many did, the people that did do have a special connection with the game because they played it so much and have so many good memories of it. For example the games i played growing up would be something like the FF series, lets take FFX for example, i love that game as much as the BG fans love BG. Now lets say for example Square Enix remade FFX and they changed my favourite character, for arguements sake, they made him gay. Now do i have a problem with gay people? no of course not, one of my closest friends is gay, but would i have a problem with Square Enix changing his character just to fit a certain Social Agenda? Maybe, at least i understand why there is such a uproar over SoD. Sorry, I don’t see it. No character was changed, it is a new character. I don’t see the issue or an agenda being pushed. I find all of the arguments about "agendas" to be very lack luster in general. They find their roots in conservative outcries about the "LGBT agenda" and those arguments were and still are bad. And the argument about scoring points is sort of silly, because if they remove the character or don’t have it, they are just trying to score points with a different group of people.
This is downright wrong. They changed Safena rather drastically. Again, the cleric is just the most tangible example of piss poor writing hence she is the one highlighted by most. They made multiple other violations of the BG lore/universe.
EDIT: I think it is time you preface every single post of yours in this thread with "I HAVEN'T PLAYED THE GAME AND I DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT I TALK ABOUT".
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On April 08 2016 06:34 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 05:43 Plansix wrote:On April 08 2016 05:40 Reaps wrote:On April 08 2016 05:33 Plansix wrote:
The problem that their “social agenda” is just another players “normal”. For someone who is gay, being a gay character in a view game is normal. Being around characters is normal.
So when people ask for “no social agendas or politics” they are asking for the game to be designed in a way that makes them most comfortable. That the content doesn’t speak to them, so it someone pushing something on them. I don't think its like that, i really doubt the majority of the people that complain feel uncomfortable with gay or trans characters. I was one of the few people that only recently bought BG series, i never had the pleasure of playing it as i was growing up like many did, the people that did do have a special connection with the game because they played it so much and have so many good memories of it. For example the games i played growing up would be something like the FF series, lets take FFX for example, i love that game as much as the BG fans love BG. Now lets say for example Square Enix remade FFX and they changed my favourite character, for arguements sake, they made him gay. Now do i have a problem with gay people? no of course not, one of my closest friends is gay, but would i have a problem with Square Enix changing his character just to fit a certain Social Agenda? Maybe, at least i understand why there is such a uproar over SoD. Sorry, I don’t see it. No character was changed, it is a new character. I don’t see the issue or an agenda being pushed. I find all of the arguments about "agendas" to be very lack luster in general. They find their roots in conservative outcries about the "LGBT agenda" and those arguments were and still are bad. And the argument about scoring points is sort of silly, because if they remove the character or don’t have it, they are just trying to score points with a different group of people. This is downright wrong. They changed Safena rather drastically. Again, the cleric is just the most tangible example of piss poor writing hence she is the one highlighted by most. They made multiple other violations of the BG lore/universe.
I wasn't talking about that character or any other beyond the trans character and the specific negative response based solely on the face that the character is trans. Not the "bad" writing. You are arguing against a point I did not make.
Edit: Can I not post in the overwatch thread because I'm not in the beta? Is this how it works now?
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Kind of my fault, i should of mentioned i was talking about Safena character when making the FFX comparison.
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On April 06 2016 15:28 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2016 08:01 chaos021 wrote:
Well damn. I was hoping SoD was going to be THE expansion that brought me back into the Baldur's Gate fold, but if the bugs and writing are that bad, I'll continue with what I have now. I just wonder how anyone could possibly screw this up this badly. Bugs are not that bad and writing is mostly good. Only a very few cases of LGBT exist if that bothers you. And those parts are also not written bad if LGBT content does not bother you.
Well I see an overwhelming number of complaints about the actual story stuffs (like beyond transcleric whatevers) and game-/mod-breaking bugs all over. If the story is written poorly, I don't want to experience that. It will forever taint what the series is to me. If it's just people all up in arms about a trangendered person (in a game where one of the first items you run across is a sex-changing belt), then I don't think it's offensive unless it just sticks out in a bad way. Likewise, if even half of the amount of bugs listed actually exist, then that's just poor organization or execution on their part, which also makes me leery of buying anything else from them.
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The the belt of gender change is one of the great items of first edition D&D. Back when detect magic just told you if something was magic or not and you just tried it on. Almost as good as the deck of many things.
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On April 08 2016 06:45 chaos021 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2016 15:28 -Archangel- wrote:On April 06 2016 08:01 chaos021 wrote:
Well damn. I was hoping SoD was going to be THE expansion that brought me back into the Baldur's Gate fold, but if the bugs and writing are that bad, I'll continue with what I have now. I just wonder how anyone could possibly screw this up this badly. Bugs are not that bad and writing is mostly good. Only a very few cases of LGBT exist if that bothers you. And those parts are also not written bad if LGBT content does not bother you. Well I see an overwhelming number of complaints about the actual story stuffs (like beyond transcleric whatevers) and game-/mod-breaking bugs all over. If the story is written poorly, I don't want to experience that. It will forever taint what the series is to me. If it's just people all up in arms about a trangendered person (in a game where one of the first items you run across is a sex-changing belt), then I don't think it's offensive unless it just sticks out in a bad way. Likewise, if even half of the amount of bugs listed actually exist, then that's just poor organization or execution on their part, which also makes me leery of buying anything else from them.
I think biggest bugs are around MP, but there are some others. Much bigger companies release with bigger bugs.
Xcom2 and Xcom1 both released with serious problems. So did Fo4 or last Batman and so on.
If bugs bother you wait for a patch or two, it is not like they plan to not fix the bugs.
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On April 08 2016 06:50 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 06:45 chaos021 wrote:On April 06 2016 15:28 -Archangel- wrote:On April 06 2016 08:01 chaos021 wrote:
Well damn. I was hoping SoD was going to be THE expansion that brought me back into the Baldur's Gate fold, but if the bugs and writing are that bad, I'll continue with what I have now. I just wonder how anyone could possibly screw this up this badly. Bugs are not that bad and writing is mostly good. Only a very few cases of LGBT exist if that bothers you. And those parts are also not written bad if LGBT content does not bother you. Well I see an overwhelming number of complaints about the actual story stuffs (like beyond transcleric whatevers) and game-/mod-breaking bugs all over. If the story is written poorly, I don't want to experience that. It will forever taint what the series is to me. If it's just people all up in arms about a trangendered person (in a game where one of the first items you run across is a sex-changing belt), then I don't think it's offensive unless it just sticks out in a bad way. Likewise, if even half of the amount of bugs listed actually exist, then that's just poor organization or execution on their part, which also makes me leery of buying anything else from them. I think biggest bugs are around MP, but there are some others. Much bigger companies release with bigger bugs. Xcom2 and Xcom1 both released with serious problems. So did Fo4 or last Batman and so on. If bugs bother you wait for a patch or two, it is not like they plan to not fix the bugs.
You say that, but Firaxis is known to be craptacular about doing just that.
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Denmark4783 Posts
On April 08 2016 06:37 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 06:34 Ghostcom wrote:On April 08 2016 05:43 Plansix wrote:On April 08 2016 05:40 Reaps wrote:On April 08 2016 05:33 Plansix wrote:
The problem that their “social agenda” is just another players “normal”. For someone who is gay, being a gay character in a view game is normal. Being around characters is normal.
So when people ask for “no social agendas or politics” they are asking for the game to be designed in a way that makes them most comfortable. That the content doesn’t speak to them, so it someone pushing something on them. I don't think its like that, i really doubt the majority of the people that complain feel uncomfortable with gay or trans characters. I was one of the few people that only recently bought BG series, i never had the pleasure of playing it as i was growing up like many did, the people that did do have a special connection with the game because they played it so much and have so many good memories of it. For example the games i played growing up would be something like the FF series, lets take FFX for example, i love that game as much as the BG fans love BG. Now lets say for example Square Enix remade FFX and they changed my favourite character, for arguements sake, they made him gay. Now do i have a problem with gay people? no of course not, one of my closest friends is gay, but would i have a problem with Square Enix changing his character just to fit a certain Social Agenda? Maybe, at least i understand why there is such a uproar over SoD. Sorry, I don’t see it. No character was changed, it is a new character. I don’t see the issue or an agenda being pushed. I find all of the arguments about "agendas" to be very lack luster in general. They find their roots in conservative outcries about the "LGBT agenda" and those arguments were and still are bad. And the argument about scoring points is sort of silly, because if they remove the character or don’t have it, they are just trying to score points with a different group of people. This is downright wrong. They changed Safena rather drastically. Again, the cleric is just the most tangible example of piss poor writing hence she is the one highlighted by most. They made multiple other violations of the BG lore/universe. I wasn't talking about that character or any other beyond the trans character and the specific negative response based solely on the face that the character is trans. Not the "bad" writing. You are arguing against a point I did not make. Edit: Can I not post in the overwatch thread because I'm not in the beta? Is this how it works now?
On April 08 2016 05:43 Plansix wrote:
Sorry, I don’t see it. No character was changed, it is a new character. I don’t see the issue or an agenda being pushed.
Safena was changed to push the same agenda - the writers also specifically stated this in an interview. When you say no character was changed to push an agenda (on which basis you dismissed reaps) you are obviously wrong and you would have known had you played the game.
You are obviously more than welcome to comment both here and in the Overwatch thread - but when you repeatedly make false (edit: the word I'm actually looking for is "erreneous" isn't it?) statements, expect to be called out on it and perhaps consider informing yourself a tad bit more.
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Denmark4783 Posts
On April 08 2016 07:01 chaos021 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 06:50 -Archangel- wrote:On April 08 2016 06:45 chaos021 wrote:On April 06 2016 15:28 -Archangel- wrote:On April 06 2016 08:01 chaos021 wrote:
Well damn. I was hoping SoD was going to be THE expansion that brought me back into the Baldur's Gate fold, but if the bugs and writing are that bad, I'll continue with what I have now. I just wonder how anyone could possibly screw this up this badly. Bugs are not that bad and writing is mostly good. Only a very few cases of LGBT exist if that bothers you. And those parts are also not written bad if LGBT content does not bother you. Well I see an overwhelming number of complaints about the actual story stuffs (like beyond transcleric whatevers) and game-/mod-breaking bugs all over. If the story is written poorly, I don't want to experience that. It will forever taint what the series is to me. If it's just people all up in arms about a trangendered person (in a game where one of the first items you run across is a sex-changing belt), then I don't think it's offensive unless it just sticks out in a bad way. Likewise, if even half of the amount of bugs listed actually exist, then that's just poor organization or execution on their part, which also makes me leery of buying anything else from them. I think biggest bugs are around MP, but there are some others. Much bigger companies release with bigger bugs. Xcom2 and Xcom1 both released with serious problems. So did Fo4 or last Batman and so on. If bugs bother you wait for a patch or two, it is not like they plan to not fix the bugs. You say that, but Firaxis is known to be craptacular about doing just that.
I think there are a lot of bugs - and every (more or less) mod is broken. Multiplayer might as well not exist, but you can at least play solo. I think the story is pretty poorly written, but I will say that big parts of the game feels fairly good and BG'esque if you are able to not think too hard about what is going on and up front accept that e.g. Safena is not going to be who she used to at all (and imo she stands now as a weaker character and more of a disempowered than empowered woman which is the exact opposite of what they wanted to achieve).
That said the game is "fine" - I would probably give it a honest review of 2-3 out of 5 as the bugs pretty severely detract imo and it does not deliver what was promised.
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Yeah, she changed Safana because she was "sexist".She called the original BG sexist too.BG1 characters were varied, Safana was manipulative, using her charms to get what she wanted.
Not really what i would describe as sexist but i fear that future female representation of women in RPGs will be based more around Shar-teel at the expense of characterisations like Safana or naive women like Aerie in BG2.Only strong, independent women will be allowed...Hows that for "diversity"?
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EPT
