EPTUFC 141: Lesnar vs Overeem - Page 27
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Arkless
Canada1547 Posts
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Arkless
Canada1547 Posts
On December 31 2011 15:45 inamorato wrote: Beat someone in wrestling half your size? I'm assuming this is a personal reference, because anyone with actual wrestling experience knows that 10 or 15 pounds is enough to tip the scale, especially if you're wrestling someone with the same or better skills and techniques. The bottom line is Lesnar never truly had a career in MMA. He is 2-1, which by my standards doesn't convey a consistent or good fighter. He isn't clean, technical, and he struggles to show athleticism. For being a Collegiate D1 Heavyweight National Champion and a multiple All American wrestler he doesn't show it. If you look at his tapes from 2000 you can see that he was a lot more coordinated. It is the same scenario as the Wanderlei, you put on all that weight, the years pile on and you lose all your grace. The way Velasquez humiliated Lesnar he should have considered retirement at that junction because he would have saved himself the humiliation. If you want to truly bring a wrestler into UFC or any type of MMA and say HERE is what a wrestler can do (Same concept as Boxing, they bring in Old Head James Toney or other washed up bums to get humiliated) bring in someone of Cael Sanderson's caliber in their prime. 2-1? What? You mean 5-2? Wanderlei fat? What? He just dropped down to MW and is a natural LHW. He lost all his grace because he has been ina a gajillion wars. I don't think you know what you're talking about. Comparing Toney to Lesnar is a joke. | ||
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Joedaddy
United States1948 Posts
On December 31 2011 14:22 Enki wrote: Lesnar is just terrible, he won't last in the UFC. Lesnar is far from terrible. The man was on top of the mountain and then he had 2 life saving surgeries. I can't remember the name of the disease but it was a stomach problem that was life threatening if not surgically treated. It's actually amazing that he is even able to get back in the octagon at that level and a testament to his character. Bottom line is that Brock hasn't looked the same since his first surgery. Don't talk shit on the guy because of it... | ||
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Suvorov
294 Posts
On December 31 2011 16:24 Trizz wrote: Did anyone happen to catch that Gina dancing gif? What do you mean? | ||
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Suvorov
294 Posts
On December 31 2011 15:36 hugedong wrote: http://www.vipbox.tv/watch/25386/1/dream-nye-2011-live-stream-online.html dream is on right now http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight_For_Japan:_Genki_Desu_Ka_Omisoka_2011 not working for me | ||
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Suvorov
294 Posts
http://goandwatch.tv/stream1.php | ||
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Joedaddy
United States1948 Posts
On December 31 2011 16:54 Suvorov wrote: If you want to watch the fedor fight, this is the only working stream i found: http://goandwatch.tv/stream1.php I checked it out and it looks way shady. Says I need to download something to view the stream. T.T; | ||
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Talack
Canada2742 Posts
On December 31 2011 16:34 Tien wrote: Obvious troll is obvious. You can't achieve what Brock has achieved by not caring. As much as I don't like Brock, I won't disrespect him. The man gave it his all and I respect him for that. Give it his all? Do you look into his training methods? his attitude towards the sport? Did you look into his fights at all? He abused the fact that the other HW's were not as big as him back when he started. He was given a terrible first opponent then given randy couture who weighed a good 60 pounds less than him for a title fight. Randy did damn good against him considering that even but he couldn't compete with a man that big. He was hand fed the title to capitilze on his fame as a WWE star. Then he fought frank mir in which he did the exact same thing. Rushed at him and used his weight/size to bowl him over then sat on him. Next fight he won because shane carwin decided to give it all ontop of him and instead of calling the fight like they should have carwin punched himself out then lesnar laid ontop of him. Next he fights someone who was 40 pounds lighter than him but was an actual fighter. Someone who actually trains (you ever seen lesnar's training? he has 3 fighters that are "good old friends" and they do not train anything specific for the fights. he litterally just stays in shape and abuses his size) and he got EMBARASSED by cain velasquez. Hell in the training camp for cain pat barry (his main training partner) said that he was disapointed that lesnar "did not let them hit him in the head during training". That alone speaks volumes about how little brock was truly giving into this. Next, leading up to fights Dana White was getting mad that his #1 draw would spend half his training time off hunting in the wilderness. I wonder how much time other fighters, who are fighting for a living and not collecting pay-cheques off their previous fame, spend at their homes. Hell lesnar doesn't even seek out additional training partners or gyms like the other fighters do. he goes home to his ranch and has fighters come to him to train. He DOES NOT put in 1/2 the effort others do and it showed the moment he fought someone who had skill. Attitude: "This is what i love, this is where i belong" this is what he said after he beat randy. That all of a sudden after doing the WWE and trying out football (failed laughably) that he had found his calling. Oh I'm sorry after 2 losses that you "lost your calling". That alone to me says he was never taking this seriously. Point being, this guy was just here to make money off his previous fame and his natural gift of athelticisim. He was never serious about being a fighter, and that truly shows in the way he quits whenever punched in the head. I'm glad he's finnaly gone, the man who was ranked #1 a few months ago got completly shut down by the first couple fighters with skill he fought. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
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ColdLava
Canada1673 Posts
On December 31 2011 17:03 Diamond wrote: Watching the Volkmann interview with Ariel, I was at a bar so I could not hear, what did he say after his fight? He called out Frankie Edgar and then he stated that he'd like to give Obama a 'glassectomy' which is where you insert a window into someone's stomach so you can see when they have their head up their ass or something like that. In other words, Volkmann is weird as fuck lol | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On December 31 2011 17:09 ColdLava wrote: He called out Frankie Edgar and then he stated that he'd like to give Obama a 'glassectomy' which is where you insert a window into someone's stomach so you can see when they have their head up their ass or something like that. In before another Secret Service visit lol...... In other words, Volkmann is weird as fuck lol He is a strange one for sure. | ||
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Dr.Lettuce
United Kingdom663 Posts
On December 31 2011 17:02 Talack wrote: Give it his all? Do you look into his training methods? his attitude towards the sport? Did you look into his fights at all? He abused the fact that the other HW's were not as big as him back when he started. He was given a terrible first opponent then given randy couture who weighed a good 60 pounds less than him for a title fight. Randy did damn good against him considering that even but he couldn't compete with a man that big. He was hand fed the title to capitilze on his fame as a WWE star. Then he fought frank mir in which he did the exact same thing. Rushed at him and used his weight/size to bowl him over then sat on him. Next fight he won because shane carwin decided to give it all ontop of him and instead of calling the fight like they should have carwin punched himself out then lesnar laid ontop of him. Next he fights someone who was 40 pounds lighter than him but was an actual fighter. Someone who actually trains (you ever seen lesnar's training? he has 3 fighters that are "good old friends" and they do not train anything specific for the fights. he litterally just stays in shape and abuses his size) and he got EMBARASSED by cain velasquez. Hell in the training camp for cain pat barry (his main training partner) said that he was disapointed that lesnar "did not let them hit him in the head during training". That alone speaks volumes about how little brock was truly giving into this. Next, leading up to fights Dana White was getting mad that his #1 draw would spend half his training time off hunting in the wilderness. I wonder how much time other fighters, who are fighting for a living and not collecting pay-cheques off their previous fame, spend at their homes. Hell lesnar doesn't even seek out additional training partners or gyms like the other fighters do. he goes home to his ranch and has fighters come to him to train. He DOES NOT put in 1/2 the effort others do and it showed the moment he fought someone who had skill. Attitude: "This is what i love, this is where i belong" this is what he said after he beat randy. That all of a sudden after doing the WWE and trying out football (failed laughably) that he had found his calling. Oh I'm sorry after 2 losses that you "lost your calling". That alone to me says he was never taking this seriously. Point being, this guy was just here to make money off his previous fame and his natural gift of athelticisim. He was never serious about being a fighter, and that truly shows in the way he quits whenever punched in the head. I'm glad he's finnaly gone, the man who was ranked #1 a few months ago got completly shut down by the first couple fighters with skill he fought. Doing this for money? Why the fuck would you move to the UFC, when the WWE payroll far far exceeds anything the UFC can pay. Additionally you have to actually get in the octagon and compete against world class MMA fighters. He used to love the money and lifestyle in the WWE it brought him. Recently and you can tell from his interviews he doesn't care for that any more. He drives a shitty 4 by 4 truck. Is that what you drive when you are an image conscious greedy man as you portray him? The answer is no. Brock is an alpha male, no doubt. However he is competitive to the very core. That's why he did it. Of course he puts in more than 1/2 the effort others do. You remember that guy Mir? Same weight as Brock (round abouts since he bulked up) the guy who just fucking snapped Big Nogs arm in a slick kimura? Yeah... Brock dominated him... on the ground. How long did Brock train MMA up till that point? A few years. Could you have repeated that feat? Could many people? No... Brock showed fantastic recovery in the Carwin fight and the ability to scramble half guard while eating bombs? Shows me someone that really did take this seriously. Additionally if as you say it was all a farce for a pay day- why did he enter for round 2 against Carwin? He would have let it end. Mazagati/Yamasaki - forgot which ref it was that time let it continue. Best call of his career. Brock Lesnar did more in less time than any other MMA fighter (that I can think of) in less time. Yes he used his size and weight it helped with basing and his TD's and gave him that lethal top game he had. So what if he used his natural advantages? You'd have to be some sort of idiot not to. What did you want him to do? Cut 30 pounds at fight at LHW? When he fought Randy there was a distinct weight advantage but firstly so what? The HW division was thin as shit. It still is the least talent filled division. Randy accepted the fight- he beat big guys like Gonzaga before. Brock clipped him and Tko'd him - legitimately. He just got offered a HW belt fight early- sure it was early I won't disagree. But what were you honestly expecting? Brock to say no? Agree to fight at a catch-weight of 230 or something? He took the fight and won convincingly. His 2 'embarassing losses'. Lets see you take a few shots from Cain. After Cain rocked him he needed 41 strikes (iirc) to finish him. That includes knees and G+P. If you are in the sport for a pay day- you don't take that much punishment. You drop and turtle and lose instantly after 4-5 punches. Overeem- different kind of power. Again- lets see you recover from diverticulitis (colon operation) and then take a few Overeem knees to the body and a left liver kick from the most powerful striker in all of MMA. *Edit* A guy on a forum I visit just typed this and it really sums up my feelings about the end of the Brock fight. "I don't think you get what a liver shot feels like. A liver shot is not so much a body shot as a "HOLY **** MY INSIDES ARE EXPLODING" shot. It's probably the single most painful spot you can get hit in on your body (genitals included). You liver is also literally a sack of poison. All the bad shit Brock eats, all the beer and the grease and whatever the hell else he's eating. All of that is filter through his liver. That liver is like a sponge, if you squeeze it (or kick it) it literally explodes toxins back into your blood stream. When this happens your nervous system goes into a sort of shock, your body locks up and you feel the most intense pain you can possible feel. That's not to mention that there are no hard ribs protecting that soft, fleshy sponge full of nerves either. That's why we've seen so many good fighters get KTFO with a shot to the liver. Shit, look at Bas Rutten's entire career. He made a living off of (literally) exploding livers." This is the HW division- this divison sees more stoppages than any other division. Heavier guys exponentially hit harder but there abilities to absorb punishment don't increase at the same rate with it. Not everyone is blessed with a Nelson/Nog/Hunt (of old) granite chin. Overeem, Carwin and Cain all have serious KO power. These guys can break bones and cause internal bleeding. Brock took it and fought them. All in all, Brock wanted to be the best. And he stood up and fought some of the worlds best at the time. Everyone doubted him before he began and he beat and fought legit top 10's for most of his stellar yet extremely short career. He didn't have to. If you look at his interviews he always motioned to becoming champion again. He didn't really dwindle on other aspects of MMA. He wanted to be the best - for him self. He did far less media work for the UFC than literally every other fighter except the Diaz brothers. Brock was in this for real- for him self. He joined imo the worlds toughest sport at the age of 30. That will eternally get my respect. I think his heart was in this Overeem fight more than ever. He knew he was going to exit and I believe he's the kind of person that really desperately wanted to go out on a win and have one last crack at the title. Hes 35, he knows he can't put his body through that kind of torture - especially after 2 major operations. I personally liked watching Brock compete- and I admired his reason for doing so. Brock rocked. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
I think it's okay that he retired at this point. I think he learned that this wasn't his passion, that he was only doing this to win. | ||
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ColdLava
Canada1673 Posts
On December 31 2011 18:07 Itsmedudeman wrote: I respect Brock as an athlete and I think he trained really hard during his career, BUT I have to say that his last fights were just downright embarrassing. He did beat Mir, and he did beat Carwin, but seriously wtf is up with him just crumbling and going into fetile position when things don't go his way? Imo, he can't handle MMA. Not the effort, but dealing with the pain, and I could hardly see him ever having enough heart and will to not submit the way machida and nog do. This wasn't the career for him, and I think it was just a competitive outlet. He was always a wrestler, and none of that ever changed while he worked on MMA. I think it's okay that he retired at this point. I think he learned that this wasn't his passion, that he was only doing this to win. He could clearly handle MMA as he beat a lot of top guys... You have a very close minded approach to this sport :/ I will say though that I do think he became a little less passionate as he kept going (but that's judging more by how his interviews went and how much time he started taking off after fights) but I'm sure his illnesses had a lot to do with that. Retiring clearly proves that point but he did a LOT for this sport's popularity in a really short time. | ||
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Balfazar
Australia483 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0AExh.jpg) The Reem can now add retiring Lesnar to his long list of accomplishments, next stop the UFC HW title. Reem's all round striking game with his knees and kicks makes him the heavy favourite for me over Dos Santos who is primarily a boxer. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On December 31 2011 18:12 ColdLava wrote: He could clearly handle MMA as he beat a lot of top guys... You have a very close minded approach to this sport :/ I will say though that I do think he became a little less passionate as he kept going (but that's judging more by how his interviews went and how much time he started taking off after fights) but I'm sure his illnesses had a lot to do with that. Retiring clearly proves that point but he did a LOT for this sport's popularity in a really short time. I'm saying HE couldn't handle getting beat up. Jesus, just watch his fights. He came back and won against Carwin after his illness, fucking CARWIN. But still, even in that win he curled up into a ball as soon as he took some shots. That and some people heard him say "no no" when Cain started punching him verbally tapping out, and the fact he doesn't take shots to the face in camp? Wtf? NO ONE IN MMA does that. I've NEVER seen anyone in MMA go fetile and look like they've lost all of their fighting spirit after they take a shot to the face with no attempt whatsoever to get back into the fight. Did a lot for the sport's popularity? What? UFC was huge before brock came here, and it's fighters like Cain, Overeem, and JDS that are making HW a big thing right now. | ||
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Asha
United Kingdom38220 Posts
How lovely, basically walked through him to do it too ^^ | ||
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Insomniac22
United States907 Posts
man cerrone got dominated  | ||
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ColdLava
Canada1673 Posts
On December 31 2011 18:48 Insomniac22 wrote: never again am i picking against a diaz man cerrone got dominated HEY, that fitch fight wasn't such a "bonerkiller" this time was it?  | ||
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Insomniac22
United States907 Posts
On December 31 2011 18:53 ColdLava wrote: HEY, that fitch fight wasn't such a "bonerkiller" this time was it? absolutely not I was so happy fitch got knocked out lol | ||
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