Since it's getting close to fight day and since I want to collect people's opinions I present to you:
My apologies in advance, I mean no disrespect to the other fights on the main card, which I will get to in a minute, but let me start off with the main attraction.
A lot of people have discussed this bout using wrestler vs striker arguments. I submit this to you: Brock has not fought any true strikers at HW. Alistair has not fought any true wrestlers at HW. Please respect the word TRUE and take it to mean someone "highly" decorated and/or with that particular skill as their primary basis. If we can agree on this statement then let me say this, for both these men this is a perfect test. For Brock, it's a test of "has my striking evolved and can I face JDS" for Overeem it's "Is my wrestling good enough and can I take on a Valasquez if I get through JDS". For me, this is precisely what makes this fight so perfect. It's two men almost (please note the almost) untested against their respective types. Lots of questions and lots of things will get answered in this fight. Is JDS same as Overeem? No. Is Brock same as Valasquez? No. They don't have to be, it's a test. Yes, there are differences in fight styles between JDS/Reem Brock/Cain but today these two fighters are going to the trial, not the final exam.
If you look at the fight records of both fighters, it becomes obvious at Reem has:great submissions - particularly his guillotine - and great standup. What is not reflected in this record is his K-1 WGP stuff. If you haven't seen K-1 Reem this is the only "real" fight he had during the GP:
I think most of you (assuming you clicked on this thread because you follow the UFC) know by now that Brock's primary mode is: try to get the fight to the ground by any means necessary and unleash ground'n'pound. This is usually done by simply overpowering his opponents with his hulking physique and athleticism. He might not be graceful, he might not be technical, but he gets it to the ground eventually.
Now that the introduction is over my prediction.
Prediction : Brock gets a takedown in the first. Alistair doesn't panick, it goes to second round. Second round, both men starting to get tired, Brocks takedowns no longer working, round ends with not too much action. Third round, Alistair comes out swinging, brock goes to the ground, Alistair wins via TKO.
The rest of the card includes :
Donald Cerrone (17-3, 4-0 UFC) vs. Nate Diaz (14-7, 9-5 UFC)
If you havent seen it:
Both men are good. Diaz a bit better on the ground, but Cerrone has him in the striking department. This is going to be boxing (Diaz) vs Muay Thai (Cerrone) and I doubt it will go to the ground. Pumped for this fight after the staredown.
Cerrone Twitter response to staredown: "“I’m not getting paid to fight today. I get paid on Friday when it counts. Let’s see if he’s brave enough to swat my hat off on Friday.... Today, I acted like a professional. Friday, I’m gonna make ‘em pay."
Diaz: “He was just trying to walk forward on me and, y’know, trying to get the jump on me, so whatever. He shouldn’t have walked that close, put his stupid-ass cowboy hat all up on me. I wasn’t trying to be a bully or anything, but he shouldn’t have done that.”
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say Nate Diaz wins... PSYCHE!!! Can't stop the cowboy. Cerrone by decision or TKO 3rd.
Jon Fitch (23-3-1, 13-1-1 UFC) vs. Johny Hendricks (11-1, 6-1 UFC)
I'm sorry but I just can't get excited for a John Fitch fight. This is going to be wrestler against wrestler. I don't know what else to say. Jon Fitch wins by "better positioning".
Vladimir Matyushenko (26-5, 7-3 UFC) vs. Alexander Gustafsson (12-1, 4-1 UFC)
Interesting fight. Vlad's only lost in the last 5 fights is to Jon Jones, the eventual champion. We might actually see his wrestling come out in this one, but then again Gustafsson might get flash KO'ed. (I hope flash KO to offset Fitch/Hendricks... sorry John). Vlad wins.
Nam Phan (17-9, 1-2 UFC) vs. Jim Hettes (9-0, 1-0 UFC)
Nam Phan's cardio and standup vs Hettes judo throws. Hailing from Gracie NEPA Hettes is being billed as the next big thing. Nam Phan will be a true test. Phan wins I think.
However, as stated, I do want you opinions and there is one fight I am interested in (can you tell):
On December 29 2011 13:04 Balfazar wrote: You must have had to search for awhile to find a picture of The Reem that bad, I beseech you to replace it with this one:
Hahahahah, I did it purposely. He was an awkward bastard in pride and that's how I will always think of him! Doesn't mean I don't love the guy... Ubereem for president of the world!
I've got lesnar winning this fight. Brock can take down anyone and overeem wont be any different. Once he lays on top of overeem I just dont see how he can get back up and overeem's cardio will be shot from grappling. The only way Overeem wins is getting the ko at the beginning of the first or second round before he gets taken down. The fight obv wont goto a third round because these guys are superheavyweights.
I'm more excited about the diaz vs ceronne fight. Its going to be a fucking war.
Overall its a great main card (minus the snoozefest fitch fight).
Maybe now that Fitch is wrestling a very high caliber wrestler (Hendricks won 2 (1 really) national titles in college) he won't be able to sit on his opponent for 15 minutes. Probably will though. Hopefully Diaz vs. Cerrone will make up for it though.
I think it's really hard to say what will happen when Brock and Overeem enter the ring together. There's too many factors. It's hard to predict that match up. I wanna lean towards Overeem in a way but Brock is some kinda beast that I wouldn't doubt.
Lot's of good fights on this card too, I like phan, diaz, riddle, and kim. Maybe fitch will be interesting? Who knows.
The Reem Cerrone Fitch (although really, who gives a fuck) Vlad Hettes
I'm calling it like that. And the Fitch fight is going to be boring as hell. I have respect for the grinders, I don't have respect for the grinders that lay and hug it out for the better part of 10 minutes in a 15 minute fight. I know for a fact that when this fight comes on every single person that comes over to watch the PPV will get up and will go to take a piss or get some more booze. I would honestly rather watch paint dry.
Hard to call due to so many variables, I can only say Im hyped to watch this fight card tomorrow night. Great OP btw, really enjoyed the analysis and such.
But yeah, lol @ that stare down between Diaz and Cerrone lololol going be some fiesty'ness in that!
Brock, i always have high hopes for, guy is A BEAST proven being 3 inches shorter yet 9lbs heavier, he trains like a monster and battles like one. Yet i belive his chin still is his weak point after his last encounter, and his win previous to that.
I have high hopes for them both, think Overeem is favorite though.
OP I have to massively disagree with your breakdown on Brock. The guy does NOT set up his take downs with punches. Brocks takedowns are sloppy, he gets by on pure strength. He shoots for high doubles and usually just runs through them in to the cage/floor. I am not impressed with Brocks takedown technique considering the level he wrestled with at NCAA.
His TD on Cain was sloppy, he landed poorly and failed to base properly and tried to pass straight away - Cain popped straight back up. His shot on Carwin was against a badly gassed opponent - and even so.. that was a horrific shot. Brock is shooting high with his head in peoples chests... for anyone well versed in MMA this had advantages and disadvantages in terms of placement and how you land. Brock isn't doing this to avoid knees or guillotines, he's doing this because he can't set up his TD's with strikes effectively so he can't drop down and really power through his opponents unafraid of guillotines etc.
His TD on Couture wasn't a clean shot- it was like I said. Drove through him in to the cage and picked him up. (Bearing in mind the weight difference between those 2 on that night was the same as that between Couture and Penn... interesting) Additionally Couture stuffed the initial single or double I can't remember.
His fight ending TD against Mir was given to him by a jumping knee from the clinch. His first shot on Mir in their second fight in the first round was ok to be honest. Not great, but it resulted in a small scramble (iirc) but his top game sealed it. Plus Mirs wrestling has always been his weak point. All in all... I think Brock has the most overrated wrestling considering his credentials in all of MMA, at least the HW division.
He has not transitioned them well to MMA, his strength is carrying him alone in terms of his shot. That's not to say his top game isn't good. His top game is up there with Fitches and GSP.
Brock does not have the striking ability to flow in to TDs (for example Rashad/GSP) and I believe it's going to cost him this fight convincingly.
He doesn't set them up, he telegraphs them badly. But hey- it's worked for him so far. But please please please take out of your OP that Brock sets up his shots with punches. He doesn't and I keep seeing people saying this and honestly it's making me want to tear my hair out.
*Edit* Brock wants to set up his TD's with punches, but he can't. Yet.
I don't see how your Janitor vs Mauler breakdown makes much sense, Gustafsson is the better striker than Matyushenko by any metric and he has height on his side. To me, this fight is going to be about whether or not Matyushenko can get the fight to the ground, if he can then he will win and if he can't then he will lose.
anyone got any thoughts on dream's NYE 2011 event?
HW bout: Fedor Emelianenko vs. Satoshi Ishii LW title match: Shinya Aoki vs. Satoru Kitaoka FW title match: Hiroyuki Takaya vs. Takeshi "Lion" Inoue Mixed rules bout: Yuichiro Nagashima vs. Katsunori Kikuno WW bout: Hayato "Mach" Sakurai vs. Ryo Chonan FW bout: Tatsuya Kawajiri vs. Kazuyuki Miyata 115lbs bout: Megumi Fujii vs. Karla Benitez BWGP Semi Finals: Bibiano Fernandes vs. Rodolfo Marques Diniz BWGP Semi Finals: Antonio Banuelos vs. Masakazu Imanari BWGP Reserve bout: Hideo Tokoro vs. Yusup Saadulaev
theres some k-1 and prowrestling matches mixed in there randomly as well
Fedor vs Ishii: Huge mismatch. I'm not sure why Ishii and his management accepted this fight but it's near unwinnable for him IMO. Fedor by decision or late KO.
Aoki vs Kitaoka: Antonio Carvalho who has trained in the past with both fighters stated that Kitaoka destroys Aoki when they grapple. However, Aoki has been working his striking in singapore for the past year or so, so I expect him to follow a game plan similar to the one he used against shaolin. Kitaoka is monsterous in the first round but he fades heavily in the later rounds. Aoki by decision.
Takaya vs Lion Inoue: I don't know a lot about Inoue except that he hits hard. Takaya always brings it so it should be a good fight.
Nagashima vs Kikuno: Nagashima is the cosplaying (cross dressing) kick boxer that knocked Aoki out last year in a hilarious turn of events. Kikuno was a Japanese prospect who has dropped off the radar recently. I had a lot of hopes for Kikuno, however nowadays he has abandoned the sanchin stance and crescent kicks that brought about his prior success in favor of a bizarre hands by his waist style that gets him outstruck by everyone. If he tries it again against Nagashima I'm expecting vicious knockout.
Mach vs Chonan: Mach is riding a 4 fight losing streak in the twilight of his career at the wrong weight class. As much experience as he has, I can't imagine him beating Chonan (granted I haven't seen a lot of chonan since his ufc run).
Kawajiri vs Miyata: Two of the best Japanese wrestlers. Kawajiri looked incredible submitting Hellboy. Miyata looked just as good suplexing Uno and Lion all over the ring. I expect Kawajiri to try to keep this one standing.
Thoughts on the BWGP: I don't know much about Banuelos other than he defeated a gun shy Tokoro in the quarter finals. For his sake I hope he brings a lot of respect for Imanari otherwise he's not leaving the ring walking. I don't know who Bibiano's opponent is at all, and Bibiano looks good against anyone other than Takaya. I'm expecting a Bibiano vs Imanari rematch in the finals. Hopefully it's not a total snoozefest like the first fight was.
Sakurai should also beat Chonan assuming he doesn't come in with a stupid game plan.
I recon Ishii will last longer than most presume... Fedors fight against Monson showed a smarter yet much more reserved and tentative approach to MMA. I suspect the Ishii fight is to really just provide Fedor with more time to implement and get used to this style of fighting. I'm expecting a clear UD or late tko/ko.
Tbh this card doesn't interest me. I've slowly moved away from Japanese MMA, and that's really sad for me to admit. I grew up watching Pride/Shooto etc.
I expect Aoki will catch him a sub pretty early on. Kitaoka has always had a very awkward sense of grappling and I believe a guy like Aoki is tailor made to catch him in an easy lock. If I had to pick I'd say a heel hook. Praying for an aokiplata though!
Diniz is legit but Bibiano should steam roll him in a round or two with some seriously slick foot work. Agreed abou tthe Imanari rematch.
On December 29 2011 20:52 Blondinbengt wrote: I don't see how your Janitor vs Mauler breakdown makes much sense, Gustafsson is the better striker than Matyushenko by any metric and he has height on his side. To me, this fight is going to be about whether or not Matyushenko can get the fight to the ground, if he can then he will win and if he can't then he will lose.
I don';t know how you interpreted what I wrote but that's exactly what I wrote. Vlad will try to get this fight to the ground at ALL costs.. hence the reference to Fitch... that is, if Vlad gets the fight to the ground we risk two L'n'P fights back to back. Although, having said that, Fitch is going to have a hard time against Hendricks. I'm actually looking forward to a phenomenal wrestling match and, like I said in my post, Vlad is going to win with wrestling but I'm hoping for a Flash KO.
P.S. After re-reading what I wrote, I think I might have been a bit too "jovially subtle" and I can understand how you misunderstood me thinking Vlad is gonna get a KO standing. However, I agree with you. Vlad will take this to the ground quicker than an A380 after takeoff.
On December 29 2011 20:19 Dr.Lettuce wrote: OP I have to massively disagree with your breakdown on Brock. The guy does NOT set up his take downs with punches. Brocks takedowns are sloppy, he gets by on pure strength. He shoots for high doubles and usually just runs through them in to the cage/floor. I am not impressed with Brocks takedown technique considering the level he wrestled with at NCAA.
His TD on Cain was sloppy, he landed poorly and failed to base properly and tried to pass straight away - Cain popped straight back up. His shot on Carwin was against a badly gassed opponent - and even so.. that was a horrific shot. Brock is shooting high with his head in peoples chests... for anyone well versed in MMA this had advantages and disadvantages in terms of placement and how you land. Brock isn't doing this to avoid knees or guillotines, he's doing this because he can't set up his TD's with strikes effectively so he can't drop down and really power through his opponents unafraid of guillotines etc.
His TD on Couture wasn't a clean shot- it was like I said. Drove through him in to the cage and picked him up. (Bearing in mind the weight difference between those 2 on that night was the same as that between Couture and Penn... interesting) Additionally Couture stuffed the initial single or double I can't remember.
His fight ending TD against Mir was given to him by a jumping knee from the clinch. His first shot on Mir in their second fight in the first round was ok to be honest. Not great, but it resulted in a small scramble (iirc) but his top game sealed it. Plus Mirs wrestling has always been his weak point. All in all... I think Brock has the most overrated wrestling considering his credentials in all of MMA, at least the HW division.
He has not transitioned them well to MMA, his strength is carrying him alone in terms of his shot. That's not to say his top game isn't good. His top game is up there with Fitches and GSP.
Brock does not have the striking ability to flow in to TDs (for example Rashad/GSP) and I believe it's going to cost him this fight convincingly.
He doesn't set them up, he telegraphs them badly. But hey- it's worked for him so far. But please please please take out of your OP that Brock sets up his shots with punches. He doesn't and I keep seeing people saying this and honestly it's making me want to tear my hair out.
*Edit* Brock wants to set up his TD's with punches, but he can't. Yet.
Relax. I can understand your outrage but whether he accomplishes it or not that's what he tries. I can be biased and say "Brock goes in for the power double leg with no setup" but then I'd get Brock fanboys arguing with me. I completely agree with you although I was trying to be sensitive. His style is G'n'P. I have edited post with something that will please you.
Chonan by flying scissor heel hook. Failing that, he's screwed. Fedor will win. Even against a 60%Fedor, Ishii is in for a hard fight. Aoki to win as well. Not too familiar with the other fighters. I have to admit, like Dr. Lettuce I grew up watching Pride and K-1 (never got into Shooto). It's a shame UFC stole all the fighters I had any emotional connection to (first by acquiring Pride then by acquiring Strikeforce).
LOL AT ROGAN AHHAHAHAHAH
In before, "I looked into their eyes during the weigh-ins..."
On December 29 2011 20:19 Dr.Lettuce wrote: OP I have to massively disagree with your breakdown on Brock. The guy does NOT set up his take downs with punches. Brocks takedowns are sloppy, he gets by on pure strength. He shoots for high doubles and usually just runs through them in to the cage/floor. I am not impressed with Brocks takedown technique considering the level he wrestled with at NCAA.
His TD on Cain was sloppy, he landed poorly and failed to base properly and tried to pass straight away - Cain popped straight back up. His shot on Carwin was against a badly gassed opponent - and even so.. that was a horrific shot. Brock is shooting high with his head in peoples chests... for anyone well versed in MMA this had advantages and disadvantages in terms of placement and how you land. Brock isn't doing this to avoid knees or guillotines, he's doing this because he can't set up his TD's with strikes effectively so he can't drop down and really power through his opponents unafraid of guillotines etc.
His TD on Couture wasn't a clean shot- it was like I said. Drove through him in to the cage and picked him up. (Bearing in mind the weight difference between those 2 on that night was the same as that between Couture and Penn... interesting) Additionally Couture stuffed the initial single or double I can't remember.
His fight ending TD against Mir was given to him by a jumping knee from the clinch. His first shot on Mir in their second fight in the first round was ok to be honest. Not great, but it resulted in a small scramble (iirc) but his top game sealed it. Plus Mirs wrestling has always been his weak point. All in all... I think Brock has the most overrated wrestling considering his credentials in all of MMA, at least the HW division.
He has not transitioned them well to MMA, his strength is carrying him alone in terms of his shot. That's not to say his top game isn't good. His top game is up there with Fitches and GSP.
Brock does not have the striking ability to flow in to TDs (for example Rashad/GSP) and I believe it's going to cost him this fight convincingly.
He doesn't set them up, he telegraphs them badly. But hey- it's worked for him so far. But please please please take out of your OP that Brock sets up his shots with punches. He doesn't and I keep seeing people saying this and honestly it's making me want to tear my hair out.
*Edit* Brock wants to set up his TD's with punches, but he can't. Yet.
Relax. I can understand your outrage but whether he accomplishes it or not that's what he tries. I can be biased and say "Brock goes in for the power double leg with no setup" but then I'd get Brock fanboys arguing with me. I completely agree with you although I was trying to be sensitive. His style is G'n'P. I have edited post with something that will please you.
Thanks!
It was honestly nothing personal, I've just been reading people saying everywhere.
'Brock sets up his takedowns with punches'
This is the classic 'striker vs wrestler/grappler' that would be something like Manhoef vs Maia.
It's making me go insane. Even the UFC promos are using this and it's making a lot of other people just quote it...
I just had to vent. Was honestly nothing personal at all man. Thank you for the OP and your write up.
Overeem is not a classic striker. He's a k-1 world champ admittedly he had one of the easiest runs to a K-1 title in the history of the sport. Tyrone sprong is good- not world class. Saki had a broken arm/hand before the fight and had to fight Overeem with it. Then in the finals he fought Aerts who had just had a fucking war with Schilt and was basically unable to get to the ring by him self.
Overeem has legit submission wins over black belts (Belfort I'm looking at you) that immediately makes him not a pure striker as he has some knowledge of grappling. IIRC he has more submission wins than KO's. That makes Overeem a more well rounded fighter than Brock. Overeem can grapple better than Brock can strike. That's not to say Brock can't land a right cross and finish it (given Alistairs suspect chin from the past). Anyone at HW can. Especially after watching Overeems fight with Werdum, Brock may try a bumrush approach and land/fake a big punch then shoot (Similar to Rashad/Rampage opening gameplan) as no one is expecting him to stand with Overeem. He shouldn't try and just stand that would be stupid, not because Overeem is that good imo, but because Brock is that rubbish at pure striking.
We all saw how scared Overeem was to go to the floor with Werdum (not that any of us blame him) but his game plan was appauling and his footwork and lateral movement wasn't great - and he ended up eating some pretty nice punches from Werdum in exchanges. A k-1 world champ should not be eating punches from a below average HW striker. His reflexes alone should have been enough to deal with anything striking wise Werdum threw. This is why I believe Alistair is one of the most overrated strikers of recent time. Can you honestly see other K-1 elite guy eating shots like that? I fail to see Werdum landing a single punch on Badr Hari etc. Even with the threat of a TD.
Now I know people are going to claim that he couldn't freely exchange because he was worried about being taken down (which changes your stance, ability to throw combos, keep your hands lower etc etc) but... behind all of that, Werdums takedowns were garbage (bent back, telegraphed, not set up...etc) and Alistair still should have been able to land much better than he did. Werdum won like 30% of striking exchanges.
Overeem is going to be pretty poor off his back I imagine, if the fight gets there. I imagine it will at some point. I see Overeem turtling up and just attempting to push off or hip escape. I don't see him catching Brock in a sub. As from what I have seen from Brocks top game is that it's very polished and tight. His weight and basing are arguably the best in the division and the way he keeps his hips low and chest low in his opponents is fantastic. Now this I suspect is his game plan. To out cardio Overeem. No one likes being on the bottom, especially beneath a guy like Brock. It tires you out incredibly fast. We've all heard that Brock has super cardio... he doesn't. He might have good cardio for a HW. But no HW can push a decent pace for 5 rounds, period.
I suspect Brocks cardio will be better than Overeems. His game plan will be to shoot, maybe not even pass much, just rabbit punch and stay active enough to take Overeems breath away and make him gas. Maybe for a round or two before really starting to pass and punch through for the finish. I see no other way Brock can win, aside from some sort of Arm Triangle surprise or some shit.
Clinching is where I think this fight will be decided. If it stays standing Overeem wins, ground Brock wins. I believe it's that simple. NO THAT IS NOT THE SAME AS STRIKER VS GRAPPLER. I'm pretty sure Brocks shot will result in him stacking Overeem in to the fence. What happens there will be big. Overeem is a kick boxing man, not a Muay Thai man. His Muay Thai plum and knees from the clinch are not that good. That's not to say his knees aren't good. They are vicious. But none of them were thrown with his back against a fence. That''s huge as he can't set his back foot for the power (Fujita, Texeira). However, Brock notoriously keeps his head high, and in the middle. Which is asking for a knee or uppercut - Alistairs second favorite punch. He wants to avoid this. Since Overeem has put on the mass and moved to HW he doesn't throw head kicks any more. I question whether he can deliver a powerful knee to Brocks chin at that height.
Can Brock stay dominant enough in the clinch, or secure a TD from the clinch? I suspect he can. However I recon Overeem will be able to turtle effectively. However I also suspect Brock will get sloppy and probably eat a hard shot during one of these attempts that will see Overeem tko him.
Brock wants to smother Overeem. I am positive that is his gameplan. I just think that Brock will eat a hard shot at some point in the 1st/2nd round and go in to survival mode. If Overeem can sprawl/stuff a TD early on- the confidence it will give him will be fight deciding. He'll realize he can stuff it and open up more. Brock will realize he's going to have difficulty taking him down and will probably be in for a long night.
One factor that not many people seem to be mentioning is cardio. This could get ugly/embarassing by the 3rd round if neither guy gets finished.
It is worth noting Overem has had a terrible camp. Mother got cancer, bounced around USA/Holland. Left x-treme couture. He's left golden glory. I have no idea who the fuck he trains with now. He brought in... what's his name eurgh... a wrestling guy (white dude, curly hair) is this supposed to equate to Brocks power/shot? Hmmm... I think Brock has a better chance at winning this than I previously thought.
Uhm, pretty sure Cain could push a decent pace for 5 rounds. Not that he's ever been in a 5 round fight [edit: I meant "a fight that has gone 5 rounds"], but he's never shown signs of slowing down in 3 rounds.
On December 30 2011 18:09 Mortality wrote: Uhm, pretty sure Cain could push a decent pace for 5 rounds. Not that he's ever been in a 5 round fight [edit: I meant "a fight that has gone 5 rounds"], but he's never shown signs of slowing down in 3 rounds.
But besides Cain you are right.
Ah that is a fair point, I hadn't considered Cain. Even so- I don't think he could push a good pace for 5 rounds in a back and forth fight. His longer fights have been all dominant by him. Never seen him have a grueling clinch war or be on his back. Which is only credit to his wrestling credentials.
God, Nate Diaz is such a tool... they were running a preview today where they interviewed the big four and told some backstory, and there was a bit where Cerrone walked up to Diaz just to say hello, back before he knew they were even going to fight, and Nate just swats his hand and tells him off.
I mean, I always knew Diaz was a bit of a tool, it just amazes me that he reinforces this EVERY time I actually see him get some press.
That said, he has some of the most amazing jiu jitsu in the business, and I LOVE watching him fight. It's tough to bet against him, because he's always surprising and his submissions are always such a threat, but he's been spotty lately, and I don't think he'll pull it off against Cerrone. Cerrone just seems like the real deal; the guy's an athlete, he's MADE for fighting, and he's been on a tear lately.
Brock/Reem should be a good one! Brock needs to fight smart and not as reckless as before if he wants to win, he needs to get Alistair down and keep him there but that's easier said than done. Overeem's got so many tools though, obviously his superior striking and vicious knees, Brock also needs to watch out for that nasty guillotine or big hook against the cage or going for a TD. Gotta give the edge to Overeem but wouldn't be overly surprised if Brock got the w.
I don't have that much time right now to write out my thoughts very clearly, but this is a fight where both fighters have clear areas of strengths so it really could go either way. Dr.Lettuce even though you have given a technical breakdown on why Lesnar's wrestling is overrated (and rightfully so in my opinion), you can't ignore how fast he is for his size, and considering how Overeem has never even faced a good wrestler before (has he even faced a wrestler at all?), I think the speed of Brock's shot will surprise Overeem heavily and Overeem will not be able to time his strikes the way he wants to. That being said clearly Overeem has the ability to end the fight EXTREMELY quickly if he does figure out his timing, but if you think about it, Carwin, Cain, and Couture have all had experience with people with really good shots, and that helped them immensely. Look at how Herring reacted against Lesnar's speed, it wasn't good, and I can easily see Overeem falling into that same trap. Sorry that was a bit shallow but that's the way I see it at the moment ;o Overeem's striking game relies heavily on timing (which he IS very good at) as he does not have great footwork or great speed
Lesnar is massively overrated. He's promoted as the cream of the crop in the HW div but when I look at his skillset he's just a middle of the pack HW imho. A lot has already been said by Dr Lettuce about Lesnar's wrestling technique which is rather poor for a NCAA div1 guy but I might add that he has the most atrocious standup in the entire UFC.
He gets things done almost on pure strengh and athleticism but against Overeem this won't enough. Anything can happen in MMA but I give Overeem 80% chance of winning this.
Now, I don't know much about this here UFC, but I do know that Brock Lesnar is in a match. Seeing as Brock Lesnar was someone I watched and enjoyed in the WWE, I'll cheer for him here. Love that guy.
Hey guys I remember someone linking a forum for HD sports/UFC stream for a previous UFC event. It was much cheaper than ufc.tv stream; something like $1 for a day pass or $50 for a year. Does anyone still have the url for that site? Thanks.
During the Machida fight there was a website that had the fight, does anyone know of any sites that will have this one? I'm in Canada for the new year, and really wanna watch the fight.
UFC prelims on Facebook start in ~40 minutes if I am correct.
For streams: Follow @freefights on twitter.
Edit: The above twitter link I got from r/MMA. I have no experience with it. But the streams will most likely be pasted in here by some other TL Members.
If I had a dollar for every time a girl gave me that look when I stepped up...
I'm really on the fence about paying for this card. Lesnar just hasn't impressed me much in the last couple of fights I've seen of him. I don't know how much of it was the stomach (?) problems he was having.
On December 31 2011 09:33 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: $600 on Overeem at -132.5 $115 Volkman -230 $340 Nunes -225
Still considering betting Gustafsson at -325 and hoping Cerrones line gets a little better near the end and bet small on him as well.
Nice picks, don't have a lot of money to spend (Poor student...) But have bet 10 Euro's on Overeem. I had to bet on the guy who lived 1 kilometer from my house
I picked Gamburyan to win by getting inside and using power punches to bully Nunes around, and using his judo to keep upright, but considering how good and well rounded Nunes is, I'm regretting that pick I think
On December 31 2011 09:39 ColdLava wrote: Gamburyan vs Nunes on ;o
I picked Gamburyan to win by getting inside and using power punches to bully Nunes around, and using his judo to keep upright, but considering how good and well rounded Nunes is, I'm regretting that pick I think
This was a very hard fight for me to pick. I think it just depends if Manny can get inside or not. Otherwise Nunes will win the fight. I picked Nunes for that reason. He is great at staying at the outside.
On December 31 2011 09:39 ColdLava wrote: Gamburyan vs Nunes on ;o
I picked Gamburyan to win by getting inside and using power punches to bully Nunes around, and using his judo to keep upright, but considering how good and well rounded Nunes is, I'm regretting that pick I think
This was a very hard fight for me to pick. I think it just depends if Manny can get inside or not. Otherwise Nunes will win the fight. I picked Nunes for that reason. He is great at staying at the outside.
On December 31 2011 09:39 ColdLava wrote: Gamburyan vs Nunes on ;o
I picked Gamburyan to win by getting inside and using power punches to bully Nunes around, and using his judo to keep upright, but considering how good and well rounded Nunes is, I'm regretting that pick I think
This was a very hard fight for me to pick. I think it just depends if Manny can get inside or not. Otherwise Nunes will win the fight. I picked Nunes for that reason. He is great at staying at the outside.
Yeah :O Judging from the first round, definitely.
I am surprised that Manny gets him to the ground and to the cage so easily. I know he is strong for such a small man... But expected Nunes to be stronger.
Does this main card start at 9PM EST like usual? Seems like shit is REALLY far behind atm. Prelims are supposed ot be in 5 mins yet there's still two more Facebook fights?n
On December 31 2011 09:55 Diamond wrote: Does this main card start at 9PM EST like usual? Seems like shit is REALLY far behind atm. Prelims are supposed ot be in 5 mins yet there's still two more Facebook fights?n
It starts at 10pm.
29/28 for Nunes. Can see 1 judge scoring it 30/27 if he likes the striking of Nunes more in the 2nd round.
Well if the judges have a single clue about kicks this should be a win for Nunes. Unfortunately it has been proven too many times that they don't, so fingers crossed here.
On December 31 2011 09:58 Lord_J wrote: Seems like a straightforward 29-28 for Nunes. Could even be 30-27; Rogan's reaction to that punch really exaggerated.
I don't really see how you give Nunes that second round lol. I thought it was pretty clearly 29-28. Good fight!
3rd straight loss for Manny Gamburyan. Might get cut after this loss... But he fought great opponents. Aldo, Tyson Griffin and Nunes. Hopefully he will get another shot, I like to watch him fight.
On December 31 2011 10:00 Baituri wrote: 3rd straight loss for Manny Gamburyan. Might get cut after this loss... But he fought great opponents. Aldo, Tyson Griffin and Nunes. Hopefully he will get another shot, I like to watch him fight.
I doubt it with now an overall UFC record of 2-5. Might be a good fit for Strikeforce.
On December 31 2011 10:00 Diamond wrote: I always feel like Ed Soares interviews are wrong.
Why was Diego showing the number 2 so much but nothing of it in the translation?
Can't take Soares interviews for granted the guy is a walking PR machine. Letting a manager who is known for changing wording of translations continue to translate on air is so unprofessional. Why can MLG hire translators for Koreans but UFC isn't able to find good objective ring translators for all their fighters? And yay for first bet of the night.
On December 31 2011 10:00 Baituri wrote: 3rd straight loss for Manny Gamburian. Might get cut after this loss... But he fought great opponents. Aldo, Tyson and Nunes. Hopefully he will get another shot, I like to watch him fight.
I think Manny should fight Cole Escovido for a "who gets fired" fight.
On December 31 2011 10:00 Diamond wrote: I always feel like Ed Soares interviews are wrong.
Why was Diego showing the number 2 so much but nothing of it in the translation?
Can't take Soares interviews for granted the guy is a walking PR machine. Letting a manager who is known for changing wording of translations continue to translate on air is so unprofessional. Why can MLG hire translators for Koreans but UFC isn't able to find good objective ring translators for all their fighters? And yay for first bet of the night.
Yea it's something that's REALLY starting to bother me. Ugh.
Soares is by and far the worst offender of it though, and some of their staff (Bravo) speak fluent Portuguese, get him out of there.
On December 31 2011 09:33 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: $600 on Overeem at -132.5 $115 Volkman -230 $340 Nunes -225
Still considering betting Gustafsson at -325 and hoping Cerrones line gets a little better near the end and bet small on him as well.
If there are prop bets on your site, take Jon Fitch by decision. I use bodog and it gave me 1.77 odds(not sure what the american version odds are). Best value on the card.
Never been impressed with Stun Gun or Korean Zombie. They fight cans mostly so UFC can get a fan base in Korea. Stun Gun will be gassed by the start of the 2nd if it goes that far.
On December 31 2011 10:37 Instigata wrote: Never been impressed with Stun Gun or Korean Zombie. They fight cans mostly so UFC can get a fan base in Korea. Stun Gun will be gassed by the start of the 2nd if it goes that far.
stun gun is an amazing fighter who doesn't get the respect his due.
On December 31 2011 10:37 Instigata wrote: Never been impressed with Stun Gun or Korean Zombie. They fight cans mostly so UFC can get a fan base in Korea. Stun Gun will be gassed by the start of the 2nd if it goes that far.
stun gun is an amazing fighter who doesn't get the respect his due.
I bet on Stungun so I obviously think he isn't bad, but Instigata is right. The moment Dong fights a fighter of equal skill he may lose because he has near zero chance of winning round three due to his cardio, and will have trouble with the pace in round two.
On December 31 2011 10:37 Instigata wrote: Never been impressed with Stun Gun or Korean Zombie. They fight cans mostly so UFC can get a fan base in Korea. Stun Gun will be gassed by the start of the 2nd if it goes that far.
stun gun is an amazing fighter who doesn't get the respect his due.
I bet on Stungun so I obviously think he isn't bad, but Instigata is right. The moment Dong fights a fighter of equal skill he may lose because he has near zero chance of winning round three due to his cardio, and will have trouble with the pace in round two.
I agree, but in this fight his stamina is looking stable at the very least.
On December 31 2011 10:37 Instigata wrote: Never been impressed with Stun Gun or Korean Zombie. They fight cans mostly so UFC can get a fan base in Korea. Stun Gun will be gassed by the start of the 2nd if it goes that far.
stun gun is an amazing fighter who doesn't get the respect his due.
Korean zombie is also pretty good. Look at the first war against Garcia, the 1st twister in UFC history against Garcia and the 7 second KO against Hominick. I don't know how you can not be impressed with him this year.
On December 31 2011 10:37 Instigata wrote: Never been impressed with Stun Gun or Korean Zombie. They fight cans mostly so UFC can get a fan base in Korea. Stun Gun will be gassed by the start of the 2nd if it goes that far.
stun gun is an amazing fighter who doesn't get the respect his due.
I bet on Stungun so I obviously think he isn't bad, but Instigata is right. The moment Dong fights a fighter of equal skill he may lose because he has near zero chance of winning round three due to his cardio, and will have trouble with the pace in round two.
I agree, but in this fight his stamina is looking stable at the very least.
It's because of the opponent, you can still see him slow down way more than he should be. More than any top guy at 170 would.
On December 31 2011 10:37 Instigata wrote: Never been impressed with Stun Gun or Korean Zombie. They fight cans mostly so UFC can get a fan base in Korea. Stun Gun will be gassed by the start of the 2nd if it goes that far.
stun gun is an amazing fighter who doesn't get the respect his due.
I bet on Stungun so I obviously think he isn't bad, but Instigata is right. The moment Dong fights a fighter of equal skill he may lose because he has near zero chance of winning round three due to his cardio, and will have trouble with the pace in round two.
I agree, but in this fight his stamina is looking stable at the very least.
It's because of the opponent, you can still see him slow down way more than he should be.
Absolutely, I'm not saying he has turned into a marathon runner, just saying it doesn't look as horrific as it has before, although the opponent obviously isn't the best.
On December 31 2011 10:56 omgbnetsux wrote: I have wasted entirely too long trying to get UFC on Xbox Live working. Thank god for the Facebook prelims in the mean time.
Well fuck, I hope it works by the time the main card rolls around. My UFC viewing depends on it!
The poor translator had this awesome look of dread on his face halfway through that speech as he realized there was no way he was going to be able to remember everything.
On December 31 2011 10:56 omgbnetsux wrote: I have wasted entirely too long trying to get UFC on Xbox Live working. Thank god for the Facebook prelims in the mean time.
Well fuck, I hope it works by the time the main card rolls around. My UFC viewing depends on it!
Not looking good. I think I'm going to have to hunt down a stream - can't justify $55 for the wife and I.
On December 31 2011 10:37 Instigata wrote: Never been impressed with Stun Gun or Korean Zombie. They fight cans mostly so UFC can get a fan base in Korea. Stun Gun will be gassed by the start of the 2nd if it goes that far.
stun gun is an amazing fighter who doesn't get the respect his due.
Korean zombie is also pretty good. Look at the first war against Garcia, the 1st twister in UFC history against Garcia and the 7 second KO against Hominick. I don't know how you can not be impressed with him this year.
It is probably just the fan in me talking...
I like both Koreans as well but they just fight cans mostly so I don't think much of them as top fighters. Garcia is 15-8 and Hominick is 20-10. Zombie has a lot of losses vs terrible journeymen. Stun Gun got smashed by Condit, the first decent fighter he faced. I think they are just hoping some Korean is half decent to gain a market in Korea the same way they always bring over star Japanese fighters (who end up getting worked over). At least the UFC is trying though.
On December 31 2011 10:37 Instigata wrote: Never been impressed with Stun Gun or Korean Zombie. They fight cans mostly so UFC can get a fan base in Korea. Stun Gun will be gassed by the start of the 2nd if it goes that far.
stun gun is an amazing fighter who doesn't get the respect his due.
Korean zombie is also pretty good. Look at the first war against Garcia, the 1st twister in UFC history against Garcia and the 7 second KO against Hominick. I don't know how you can not be impressed with him this year.
It is probably just the fan in me talking...
I like both Koreans as well but they just fight cans mostly so I don't think much of them as top fighters. Garcia is 15-8 and Hominick is 20-10. Zombie has a lot of losses vs terrible journeymen. Stun Gun got smashed by Condit, the first decent fighter he faced. I think they are just hoping some Korean is half decent to gain a market in Korea the same way they always bring over star Japanese fighters (who end up getting worked over). At least the UFC is trying though.
On December 31 2011 11:23 Baituri wrote: Come on... I can't stand it when someone like Castillio just does nothing... At least try to do something instead of sitting on someones legs...
More judges should start giving out draws. Make people win a round instead of sitting on top and thinking they win.
On December 31 2011 11:23 Baituri wrote: Come on... I can't stand it when someone like Castillio just does nothing... At least try to do something instead of sitting on someones legs...
Honestly what I find frustrating is that Njokuani has struggled with ground fighters before, but has shown virtually no improvement in terms of how he deals with them. Against fighters that stand with him he does great though.
On December 31 2011 11:23 Baituri wrote: Come on... I can't stand it when someone like Castillio just does nothing... At least try to do something instead of sitting on someones legs...
Honestly what I find frustrating is that Njokuani has struggled with ground fighters before, but has shown virtually no improvement in terms of how he deals with them. Against fighters that stand with him he does great though.
I do think he looked a little better today. But by far not good enough to fight against strong wrestlers. I just can't stand fighters that don't do anything when they have an opportunity and rather lie on them for another minute because it is safer
On December 31 2011 11:23 Baituri wrote: Come on... I can't stand it when someone like Castillio just does nothing... At least try to do something instead of sitting on someones legs...
Castillio looked like he literally was outclassed strength-wise when dealing with Njokuani. Can't really blame him for looking like he was unable to even pull Njokuani off the cage..
I think Brock is over rated. He has been just used to being bigger and stronger than most guys. I wasn't suprised when he showed no respect to Cain but was really suprised when Cain was rocking him being much lighter than him. I think Overeem is gonna go JDS on Brock.
10-8 but he looked so tired in the middle of the round. No idea how Nam survived that and came out looking the fresher of the two. He still has a shot in this.
On December 31 2011 12:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Impressive stuff! This kids GNP is vicious and his subs and wrestling are really good.
Those releases he used are very hard to do in the middle of a cat fight. People clap when the big boys do it but I think your a fan, its rare to see it so cleanly done.
hhmmm interesting next bout, matyushenko vs gustaffson. i got gustaffson, havent been paying to much attention to MMA as of late, so does anyone have momentum going into this fight?
Judo is going to be something more people will have to learn, especially since so many guys like to try hug it out against the cage wall. And someone promote that fucking kid to a Brown Belt in BJJ. He might not have finished the fight, but one hell of a good performance.
On December 31 2011 12:41 Sceptor87 wrote: Called it.
Judo is going to be something more people will have to learn, especially since so many guys like to try hug it out against the cage wall. And someone promote that fucking kid to a Brown Belt in BJJ. He might not have finished the fight, but one hell of a good performance.
There's just too few high level judoka in MMA. Hip tosses are sort of rare, but Karo Parisyan was probably one of the best judoka to carry it over in MMA. I think Dong Hyun Kim too but I forget if he really used his judo as of late (he seems to be more of a wrestler now).
But that kid did great, he needs to get promoted to brown belt after that performance absolute domination of a veteran BJJ black belt.
On December 31 2011 12:39 rebuffering wrote: hhmmm interesting next bout, matyushenko vs gustaffson. i got gustaffson, havent been paying to much attention to MMA as of late, so does anyone have momentum going into this fight?
Both fighters do. Vlad has won 4/5 with only 1 loss against Jon Jones.
Alexander has won 4/5 with only loss to Phil Davis.
Vlad is a wrestler, Alexander is a striker. Notice Alexander's only loss (UFC) is to a wrestler.
So, this is pretty much a test for Vlad to see if he can beat a good striker and for Alexander can he beat a good wrestler.
For both men, this is a test to enter the top 5 and go on a 2-3 fight run for the challengers spot.
On December 31 2011 12:41 Sceptor87 wrote: Called it.
Judo is going to be something more people will have to learn, especially since so many guys like to try hug it out against the cage wall. And someone promote that fucking kid to a Brown Belt in BJJ. He might not have finished the fight, but one hell of a good performance.
There's just too few high level judoka in MMA. Hip tosses are sort of rare, but Karo Parisyan was probably one of the best judoka to carry it over in MMA. I think Dong Hyun Kim too but I forget if he really used his judo as of late (he seems to be more of a wrestler now).
But that kid did great, he needs to get promoted to brown belt after that performance absolute domination of a veteran BJJ black belt.
Shame too. You think about how many times Judo would help in a clinch or against the cage with underhooks and it's kind of weird not seeing it more. The main person right now that I can think of with real name behind her is Ronda Rousey, but nobody knows about her really since she's a woman and in StrikeForce. The chick is a bronze medalist in the 2008 Olympics and is fucking people up left and right with armbar after armbar, and you just don't hear much about it.
I hope Karo comes back in one form or another. Addiction is a hell of a thing though.
On December 31 2011 12:49 Instigata wrote: Wow this guy is a LHW? Why do they call Jones, Bones? JBJ gonna be champ for awhile if these are the size of guys he fights.
If that's a referral to them being small Gustafsson is 6'5.
On December 31 2011 12:49 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Now I feel dirty for making such a small bet
Naz what's your record like? Are you winning more bets then you are losing?
4/4 today and at a profit over ~500 bets lifetime. Not a huge profit (although most here would consider it a lot) but still learning more about successful betting with every event.
On December 31 2011 12:41 Sceptor87 wrote: Called it.
Judo is going to be something more people will have to learn, especially since so many guys like to try hug it out against the cage wall. And someone promote that fucking kid to a Brown Belt in BJJ. He might not have finished the fight, but one hell of a good performance.
There's just too few high level judoka in MMA. Hip tosses are sort of rare, but Karo Parisyan was probably one of the best judoka to carry it over in MMA. I think Dong Hyun Kim too but I forget if he really used his judo as of late (he seems to be more of a wrestler now).
But that kid did great, he needs to get promoted to brown belt after that performance absolute domination of a veteran BJJ black belt.
Shame too. You think about how many times Judo would help in a clinch or against the cage with underhooks and it's kind of weird not seeing it more. The main person right now that I can think of with real name behind her is Ronda Rousey, but nobody knows about her really since she's a woman and in StrikeForce. The chick is a bronze medalist in the 2008 Olympics and is fucking people up left and right with armbar after armbar, and you just don't hear much about it.
I hope Karo comes back in one form or another. Addiction is a hell of a thing though.
Ishii's a world class judoka too and tbh I haven't seen any of his recent fights. You figure with an Olympic Gold Medalist in Judo competing in MMA he'd be doing some great throws and trips, but as I said I haven't seen much of his recent work. He is fighting Fedor later though who while not as an accomplished Judoka his Sambo background should make it a very interesting clinch grappling situation. I feel bad for Karo, he had the skills but yea that drug addiction messed his career up good.
Id probably make tons of money betting on single fights but i get SUPER greedy and do robins and parlays. Bites me in the ass everytime. However I'm one fight away from cashing in on my robin and two fights away from winning my 8 fight parlay. Let's keep this going!
On December 31 2011 12:50 Synwave wrote: Well egg on my face. I dont know what to say but...glad I didnt bet
Actually on rewatch he was totally defending. The only shit that happened was backhead hits. He had all of 2 hits on his side, while defended. While defended his head never rocked. Yay ref.
hmm i think this be a boring fight lol or, it will be standup all the way, and may be interesting. but i dont remember the last time fitch has had an entertaining fight.
Maybe Fitch wants to make a statement for a new title run and actually tries to get a finish this time :D Unlikely but you can always hope. Sad day for Maddy but Gus is pretty cool too so its not so bad
He has a lovely beard I don't know why, but I am actually excited for this fight >.> Have the feeling Fitch wants another shot at the title now GSP is out.
Edit: Can anyone see the UFC giving Shogun Rua next for Gustaffson?
Gogo Fitch. The guy is so good I don't care if he isn't an entertainer. 14-1-1 or something in the UFC is champion status worthy yet he only gets shit, it's insane. It's nice to see finishes but in the end I consider this a sport and Fitch wins and shows tons of heart. Nothing but respect for the guy.
On December 31 2011 12:58 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Gogo Fitch. The guy is so good I don't care if he isn't an entertainer. 14-1-1 or something in the UFC is champion status worthy yet he only gets shit, it's insane. GL
I shouldn't say this but its a given that the big rig wins.
On December 31 2011 12:51 yoshi245 wrote:Ishii's a world class judoka too and tbh I haven't seen any of his recent fights. You figure with an Olympic Gold Medalist in Judo competing in MMA he'd be doing some great throws and trips, but as I said I haven't seen much of his recent work. He is fighting Fedor later though who while not as an accomplished Judoka his Sambo background should make it a very interesting clinch grappling situation. I feel bad for Karo, he had the skills but yea that drug addiction messed his career up good.
Oh shit that's right, DREAM is putting on a NYE thing too. Ishii might do decent enough though. I might actually have to check that out though.
And that was quick, lol. So far I'm doing pretty shitty tonight.
<3 Hendricks. The blanket finally got stopped. Really tired of Fitch's 3round snorefests. I consider this a late but very satisfying Christmas present.
On December 31 2011 13:03 kuresuti wrote: Does Lesnar vs Overeem come up faster when this happens, or do they have set times? Never watched UFC before
Sometimes they throw in a pre-lim fight to squeeze out some time for the next fighters to prep to walk out. You usually know when this happens because the people just suddenly appear in the octagon a second before the fight begins instead of walking out.
On December 31 2011 13:04 ToT)OjKa( wrote: They replaying the whole of this fight?
Yea, I don't undetstand why they starting to going back the old way of running the event. Starting one hour later, and show replays of long fights if the card finishing up so quickly. Not a smart move.
The next fighters probably needed a bit more time but I suppose they should always be ready by the ring of the bell for the fight before theirs in the case of those pre-1min KOs.
On December 31 2011 13:03 kuresuti wrote: Does Lesnar vs Overeem come up faster when this happens, or do they have set times? Never watched UFC before
Sometimes they throw in a pre-lim fight to squeeze out some time for the next fighters to prep to walk out. You usually know when this happens because the people just suddenly appear in the octagon a second before thr fight begins instead of walking out.
So are there any matches in before Allistar vs Lesnar except for this played fight or not? Because i believe those cowboys still need to fight and I want to go sleep it is 5 o clock :S
On December 31 2011 13:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Why did the cutman cut a lock from Hendricks beard.....?
Hey FA! Haven't seen you in these threads for a while. I know you're an avid MMA follower.
I've been meaning to ask you for a while... I think there was a Shootokan or Kyokushin (can't remember which) kumite video that you posted a while while back. Would you be able to link me to that again?
I feel a bit bad for Gustafsson though, 5 wins in the UFC with 100% finishes and no bonuses, and with the Hendricks KO there's no way he's getting one tonight.
On December 31 2011 13:24 unknown.sam wrote: absolutely no chance for fitch at getting another title shot. boo hoo
plenty of shots he is young, there are other more impressive concepts than the ufc but even given thats the only one...plenty of chance
Jon got caught but I'm pretty sure he's the superior fighter between those two.
That being said, The UFC does not want to promote that kind of fighter that hasn't finished a fight in 5 years and is incredibly infamous for being the most boring fighter in the entire UFC. If he hadn't recieved a title shot already and after 8(?) wins in a row outside of GSP spanking him like a bad child I doubt there is much more he can do to get a title shot outside of demolishing someone that is top-10.
I'm rooting for Cerrone just because Diaz comes across as a young Tito, too obnoxious and cocky IMO. I get that it's part of his personality and may be what gets him fans but eh I don't like the type and always hope they get beat up pretty good.
On December 31 2011 13:24 unknown.sam wrote: absolutely no chance for fitch at getting another title shot. boo hoo
plenty of shots he is young, there are other more impressive concepts than the ufc but even given thats the only one...plenty of chance
Jon got caught but I'm pretty sure he's the superior fighter between those two.
That being said, The UFC does not want to promote that kind of fighter that hasn't finished a fight in 5 years and is incredibly infamous for being the most boring fighter in the entire UFC. If he hadn't recieved a title shot already and after 8(?) wins in a row outside of GSP spanking him like a bad child I doubt there is much more he can do to get a title shot outside of demolishing someone that is top-10.
Ok lets watch the next one. I think your smart but too conspiricacy.
On December 31 2011 13:24 unknown.sam wrote: absolutely no chance for fitch at getting another title shot. boo hoo
plenty of shots he is young, there are other more impressive concepts than the ufc but even given thats the only one...plenty of chance
Jon got caught but I'm pretty sure he's the superior fighter between those two.
That being said, The UFC does not want to promote that kind of fighter that hasn't finished a fight in 5 years and is incredibly infamous for being the most boring fighter in the entire UFC. If he hadn't recieved a title shot already and after 8(?) wins in a row outside of GSP spanking him like a bad child I doubt there is much more he can do to get a title shot outside of demolishing someone that is top-10.
He will serve his purpose in acting as a litmus test to Joe Silva for wrestling and heart. I doubt he can go down in weight like, say, Kenny as he's already pretty skinny at 170. I also don't see Fitch moving up to 185 because he won't be able to impose his will and use his range to escape or close distance at will against strikers like he does at 170.
On December 31 2011 13:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Why did the cutman cut a lock from Hendricks beard.....?
Hey FA! Haven't seen you in these threads for a while. I know you're an avid MMA follower.
I've been meaning to ask you for a while... I think there was a Shootokan or Kyokushin (can't remember which) kumite video that you posted a while while back. Would you be able to link me to that again?
Havent really been following int he past year >.<
I think I know which one you are talking about... but I think it was maaaaaaybe this?
It's like his training partners didn't actually throw punches against him so he has no clue what to do as they smash his face repeatedly. Quite annoying when you want to root for the guy.
On December 31 2011 13:47 rebuffering wrote: am i the only one who thinks this fight is terrible? entertaining sure. but my god, this sloppy shit .
I agree. Watching this is the equivalent of 5 year olds playing soccer and just mindlessly kicking the ball around, except the MMA version. So sloppy, no technique in striking whatsoever.
i duno about him being young. he's like 33, that's getting up there in age (for most fighters) especially in the realm of combat sports as far as winning is concerned.
it's been over 3 years since he last fought for ufc gold and despite his unbeaten streak he still hasn't gotten a shot (obviously because of the draw against bj).
with this loss it pushes him back down the ladder. if he can go on a 5 fight win streak, 3+ years unbeaten streak and still not earn a rematch, i don't see why history wouldn't repeat itself unless every other top contender gets injured or something.
Watch Diaz much closer. Both him and his brother have great technique. Hardly anyone uses their boxing combos, and incorporate body work as much they do.
Umm, both of them are world class when it comes to striking and wrestling, but I think these "clash of styles" bouts are some of the absolute worst in terms of entertainment. Someone gets dominated one way or the other, and it makes for very boring fights. I can't say for sure who will come out on top, but I'd be surprised if it was worth the hype.
Yea was wondering about it at first (re: why Broomstick didn't follow after sweep) but Diaz is much better on the ground and Cowboy is... well I don't know what the hell he was in that fight aside from useless.
On December 31 2011 13:51 DrSeRRoD wrote: Sweep until he falls Step away happy Eat 40 punches to the face Repeat
Yeah it sure is funny how rogan wanted to make it sound as if there was even a competition.
I feel bad for Joe and Mike trying to hype the fight up; it was terrible.
yeah all sorts of thing are terrible, I dont need you here saying shit removing what was brilliant boxing because your clueless
umm brilliant boxing?? im sorry, that was not brilliant boxing, that was someone who knew how to box, punching someone who has no head movement, or foot movement, not to to mention he only checked like 1 kick that cerronne through. his boxing was OK imo.
On December 31 2011 13:57 acrimoneyius wrote: "They delivered on what we expected to be...fight of the night"
Mike Goldberg is such a dumbass sometimes.
I can understand that it wasn't your thing. But Diaz really fought awesome. Also remember we are not the primary focus for the UFC, the people who know a little more... UFC tries to sell, and 2 guys punching the shit out of each other (Or rather Diaz punching the shit out of Ceronne) is what the casual fans want to see.
On December 31 2011 13:51 DrSeRRoD wrote: Sweep until he falls Step away happy Eat 40 punches to the face Repeat
Yeah it sure is funny how rogan wanted to make it sound as if there was even a competition.
I feel bad for Joe and Mike trying to hype the fight up; it was terrible.
yeah all sorts of thing are terrible, I dont need you here saying shit removing what was brilliant boxing because your clueless
Brilliant boxing? I'm not sure I'm the clueless one if you're making claim like that.
I boxed. Im not too worried what you lot think. We've all met you in the bar, we ignore your shit.
funny, i also boxed, and did jujitsu/kickboxing/wrestling for 2 years a peice, obviously we have different opinions, but im tired of people saying shit like "the diaz have brilliant boxing", cuz they dont, they are decent boxers in a sport where no one actually knows how to properly box, so they get made to look brilliant.
Also, i do find Gina very attractive for some reason....hmm, although the movie will probably be crap.
On December 31 2011 14:03 sprd wrote: Too bad they keep trying to sell Gina when the only thing shes done of any relevance is get beat up by Cyborg like 2 years ago :/
They keep saying shes coming back.. But so far nope
brock doesnt stand a chance. his so called wrestling is no match vs the reem's ground... and as it was proven before, brock cant stand toe to toe vs pure strikers... I mean getting unloaded by the Sweet chin music is something but mmma is too rough for poor brock.
call Mcmahon for your old job while you can Brock youre too soft.
On December 31 2011 13:51 DrSeRRoD wrote: Sweep until he falls Step away happy Eat 40 punches to the face Repeat
Yeah it sure is funny how rogan wanted to make it sound as if there was even a competition.
I feel bad for Joe and Mike trying to hype the fight up; it was terrible.
yeah all sorts of thing are terrible, I dont need you here saying shit removing what was brilliant boxing because your clueless
Brilliant boxing? I'm not sure I'm the clueless one if you're making claim like that.
I boxed. Im not too worried what you lot think. We've all met you in the bar, we ignore your shit.
funny, i also boxed, and did jujitsu/kickboxing/wrestling for 2 years a peice, obviously we have different opinions, but im tired of people saying shit like "the diaz have brilliant boxing", cuz they dont, they are decent boxers in a sport where no one actually knows how to properly box, so they get made to look brilliant.
Also, i do find Gina very attractive for some reason....hmm, although the movie will probably be crap.
There is no proper response but to quote you. Your ignorance is basically underlined so I will just leave it as such. You know because "no one knows how to properly box so they look brilliant" Yay you are soooo educated.
On December 31 2011 14:06 rebuffering wrote: if this goes to round 2, i will be surprised, also if they dont gas out after one round, i will also be susprised.
On December 31 2011 13:51 DrSeRRoD wrote: Sweep until he falls Step away happy Eat 40 punches to the face Repeat
Yeah it sure is funny how rogan wanted to make it sound as if there was even a competition.
I feel bad for Joe and Mike trying to hype the fight up; it was terrible.
yeah all sorts of thing are terrible, I dont need you here saying shit removing what was brilliant boxing because your clueless
Brilliant boxing? I'm not sure I'm the clueless one if you're making claim like that.
I boxed. Im not too worried what you lot think. We've all met you in the bar, we ignore your shit.
funny, i also boxed, and did jujitsu/kickboxing/wrestling for 2 years a peice, obviously we have different opinions, but im tired of people saying shit like "the diaz have brilliant boxing", cuz they dont, they are decent boxers in a sport where no one actually knows how to properly box, so they get made to look brilliant.
Also, i do find Gina very attractive for some reason....hmm, although the movie will probably be crap.
There is no proper response but to quote you. Your ignorance is basically underlined so I will just leave it as such. You know because "no one knows how to properly box so they look brilliant" Yay you are soooo educated.
Hey man im just explaining why i think its wrong to call Diaz's brilliant boxers. im no genius, so if im an idiot, sorry to waste your time lol. enjoy the big boys fighting.
On December 31 2011 14:06 rebuffering wrote: if this goes to round 2, i will be surprised, also if they dont gas out after one round, i will also be susprised.
Read: covering all my bets no matter what
Who are you betting on anyways? i got allistar based purely on experience lol, not to mention ive always hated brock
watch basically any nick diaz fight, it looks exactly the same. It's the diaz bros style, it's very hard to stop. Even for ppl with really good boxing like kj noons, daley, penn etc. and he didnt go to the ground because diaz has really good jitz.
I hope they tested the octagon's strength because when over 500 pounds combined clutters into the fence as brock goes for a power double leg the whole thing might just break and fall apart!
On December 31 2011 14:10 MaZza[KIS] wrote: I hope they tested the octagon's strength because when over 500 pounds combined clutters into the fence as brock goes for a power double leg the whole thing might just break and fall apart!
Never go back and watch PRIDE then, good times, watching people fly through the ropes on takedown attempts
On December 31 2011 14:06 rebuffering wrote: if this goes to round 2, i will be surprised, also if they dont gas out after one round, i will also be susprised.
Read: covering all my bets no matter what
Who are you betting on anyways? i got allistar based purely on experience lol, not to mention ive always hated brock
On December 31 2011 14:10 MaZza[KIS] wrote: I hope they tested the octagon's strength because when over 500 pounds combined clutters into the fence as brock goes for a power double leg the whole thing might just break and fall apart!
Never go back and watch PRIDE then, good times, watching people fly through the ropes on takedown attempts
Didn't Coleman go flying through the ropes with someone?
I love PRIDE because of that exact reason. Wrestling wasn't as prevalent because of the ropes. In the UFC the cage makes it too easy for wrestlers... but that's an argument for another day... lets not go into that now!
Did he just throw that fight? There was a very delayed reaction to that kick. On top of that, he never even tried to take him down, which is what he's best at. I dunno...
On December 31 2011 14:13 MaZza[KIS] wrote: Joe Rogan get off Brock's nuts you're making me want to throw up!
Brock's strength is just ridiculous and his speed for his size is just... O.O. And if you get under him, you're just finished.
The problem is, Brock can't take the strikes. Rogan seems to be thinking like "oh, that's just the diverticulitis." It's not. Bas Rutten has criticized that Brock doesn't allow himself to take hits during training. You've got to take hits to toughen up.
Pretty sick how that one knee sank in like a foot deep into Lesnar's body lol. The guy looks so soft I wonder if he does any workouts that boxers do designed to protect their body and internal organs.
On December 31 2011 14:22 Devolved wrote: Did he just throw that fight? There was a very delayed reaction to that kick. On top of that, he never even tried to take him down, which is what he's best at. I dunno...
Well getting hit in the body usually takes a second for the full feeling to hit you lol people whove been hit hard in the stomach area will know that
On December 31 2011 14:22 Devolved wrote: Did he just throw that fight? There was a very delayed reaction to that kick. On top of that, he never even tried to take him down, which is what he's best at. I dunno...
It's a pretty standard reaction to a liver shot ko
On December 31 2011 14:22 Devolved wrote: Did he just throw that fight? There was a very delayed reaction to that kick. On top of that, he never even tried to take him down, which is what he's best at. I dunno...
Liver shots usually look like "delayed reactions" due to the time it takes for the pain to kick in.
I feel for Lesnar though, he's really struggled with his illness and I respect him for showing us all he's got. No need to disrespect him, Ubereem was just much better.
On December 31 2011 14:22 Devolved wrote: Did he just throw that fight? There was a very delayed reaction to that kick. On top of that, he never even tried to take him down, which is what he's best at. I dunno...
It happens when you get your liver hurt. The reaction always takes a second or so but you have very little chance to recover from that.
On December 31 2011 14:23 Slow Motion wrote: Pretty sick how that one knee sank in like a foot deep into Lesnar's body lol. The guy looks so soft I wonder if he does any workouts that boxers do designed to protect their body and internal organs.
He does insane workouts in all areas... honestly the guy is an athletic beast.... it's just that, LITERALLY, no one in the world punches or kicks like Overeem. He has muscles and he knows how to use them. No one would have kicked brock or kneed him to the body like Alistair. Brock looked surprised if anything.
Ohhhh I'm so rubbing it into all of my co-workers' faces, they all rooted for Lesnar. Respectable run in the UFC though, but it seems once people figured him out he couldn't win anymore. Plus the illness really seems to have taken a toll, regardless of what the countdown hyped about him being in better shape than ever before.
A liver shot is a punch, kick, or knee strike to the right side of the ribcage that damages the liver. Blunt force to the liver can be excruciatingly painful, and an especially effective shot will incapacitate a person. Thus, in combat sport, liver shots have produced technical knockouts (TKOs). Bas Rutten popularized both the term "liver shot" and the use of this tactic in mixed martial arts.
Wiki quote.
It just takes a second or so for it to kick in as the live starts to bleed and your body starts shutting down.
I've had surgery on my abdomen as well. It takes A WHILE for your core muscles to come back to full strength. I was working out 4 times a week with a personal trainer for over 6 months before i even felt remotely close back to normal.
And the muscles have never felt right since that, and this was minor surgery compared to what brock had done.
On December 31 2011 14:25 HuK wrote: wow retire.... TT i never want to retire in sc2 the same way
I love it when athletes retire with the timing Brock just used. The guy is an ex champion and a monster beast and there is a realization that he can never beat any of the top three guys anymore. He'd have to stick around as a gatekeeper who little to no chance of ever being a champion again. It hurts to see champions go down that road and I really appreciate it when they retire the moment they can't be champions anymore.
On December 31 2011 13:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Why did the cutman cut a lock from Hendricks beard.....?
Hey FA! Haven't seen you in these threads for a while. I know you're an avid MMA follower.
I've been meaning to ask you for a while... I think there was a Shootokan or Kyokushin (can't remember which) kumite video that you posted a while while back. Would you be able to link me to that again?
Those knees would probably kill a normal guy. If you checked the replay when he gets a knee on the body at his liver it sinks so deep, hurts just watching.
On December 31 2011 14:25 HuK wrote: wow retire.... TT i never want to retire in sc2 the same way
I love it when athletes retire with the timing Brock just used. The guy is an ex champion and a monster beast and there is a realization that he can never beat any of the top three guys anymore. He'd have to stick around as a gatekeeper who little to no chance of ever being a champion again. It hurts to see champions go down that road and I really appreciate it when they retire the moment they can't be champions anymore.
yea but he walked into the fight with that mindset, at least think it over after wards and decide how well you can do and whether or not you could improve. dont go into the fight thinking "well if i lose im too tired and ill just quit "
You have to visualize success, and not already have your contingency plan lined up in case things do not go your way. Positivity breeds more positive energy.
And the NYE dream card... Is on HDnet live... and takes place from 1am-10am EST x.x
On December 31 2011 14:25 HuK wrote: wow retire.... TT i never want to retire in sc2 the same way
I love it when athletes retire with the timing Brock just used. The guy is an ex champion and a monster beast and there is a realization that he can never beat any of the top three guys anymore. He'd have to stick around as a gatekeeper who little to no chance of ever being a champion again. It hurts to see champions go down that road and I really appreciate it when they retire the moment they can't be champions anymore.
yea but he walked into the fight with that mindset, at least think it over after wards and decide how well you can do and whether or not you could improve. dont go into the fight thinking "well if i lose im too tired and ill just quit "
I dunno I don't agree with that. I do think you can think about your career in such a manner in MMA/boxing and I consider it a positive. The way top fighters stick around way longer than they should because they don't think about their careers like that hurts to see sometimes.
The way Lesnar had lost to Velasquez already showed that he had very little chance of ever beating him again, but beating Overeem (somehow) would definitely have indicated he could have beaten JDS (similar fighter to Overeem). If he can't beat Overeem he basically has no obvious way of getting to the title again, and that could be predicted before the fight happened.
On December 31 2011 14:25 HuK wrote: wow retire.... TT i never want to retire in sc2 the same way
I love it when athletes retire with the timing Brock just used. The guy is an ex champion and a monster beast and there is a realization that he can never beat any of the top three guys anymore. He'd have to stick around as a gatekeeper who little to no chance of ever being a champion again. It hurts to see champions go down that road and I really appreciate it when they retire the moment they can't be champions anymore.
yea but he walked into the fight with that mindset, at least think it over after wards and decide how well you can do and whether or not you could improve. dont go into the fight thinking "well if i lose im too tired and ill just quit "
I dunno I don't agree with that. I do think you can think about your career in such a manner in MMA/boxing and I consider it a positive. The way top fighters stick around way longer than they should because they don't think about their careers like that hurts to see sometimes.
ok how about when you can beat some1 in wrestling 1/2 your size you can come back and talk to me about fighting
On December 31 2011 14:25 HuK wrote: wow retire.... TT i never want to retire in sc2 the same way
I love it when athletes retire with the timing Brock just used. The guy is an ex champion and a monster beast and there is a realization that he can never beat any of the top three guys anymore. He'd have to stick around as a gatekeeper who little to no chance of ever being a champion again. It hurts to see champions go down that road and I really appreciate it when they retire the moment they can't be champions anymore.
I think a lot of people would of thought the same with Boxer when he wasn't showing results, but look at him now he's back in Code S.
Although I think MMA is too different of a sport to compare I dunno if I would consider a starcraft pro an athlete. Different subject ^^
At first I hated Brock Lesnar due to his manners and annoying fans. Now I'm sad to see him go. He always got in the cage ready to fight and give it his all. I hope he has a good future in whatever he does.
On December 31 2011 14:25 HuK wrote: wow retire.... TT i never want to retire in sc2 the same way
I love it when athletes retire with the timing Brock just used. The guy is an ex champion and a monster beast and there is a realization that he can never beat any of the top three guys anymore. He'd have to stick around as a gatekeeper who little to no chance of ever being a champion again. It hurts to see champions go down that road and I really appreciate it when they retire the moment they can't be champions anymore.
yea but he walked into the fight with that mindset, at least think it over after wards and decide how well you can do and whether or not you could improve. dont go into the fight thinking "well if i lose im too tired and ill just quit "
Why wait till after the fight?
He ' thought about it ' and was serious enough to make a promise to his wife and kids. As a former champ in wrestling and UFC he prolly trained as hard as possible, also from his speech it was obvious he was aiming for the title again. If he knew he was giving it his all in his training, its fair to set retirement as a condition based on the loss on the way to the championship.
On December 31 2011 14:25 HuK wrote: wow retire.... TT i never want to retire in sc2 the same way
I love it when athletes retire with the timing Brock just used. The guy is an ex champion and a monster beast and there is a realization that he can never beat any of the top three guys anymore. He'd have to stick around as a gatekeeper who little to no chance of ever being a champion again. It hurts to see champions go down that road and I really appreciate it when they retire the moment they can't be champions anymore.
I think a lot of people would of thought the same with Boxer when he wasn't showing results, but look at him now he's back in Code S.
Although I think MMA is too different of a sport to compare I dunno if I would consider a starcraft pro an athlete. Different subject ^^
I am looking forward to JDS Vs. Overeem though!!
Boxer is the face of starcraft and all starcraft pros look up to him.
Why would you even make an analogy like this to Brock lesnar lol...
On December 31 2011 14:25 HuK wrote: wow retire.... TT i never want to retire in sc2 the same way
I love it when athletes retire with the timing Brock just used. The guy is an ex champion and a monster beast and there is a realization that he can never beat any of the top three guys anymore. He'd have to stick around as a gatekeeper who little to no chance of ever being a champion again. It hurts to see champions go down that road and I really appreciate it when they retire the moment they can't be champions anymore.
I think a lot of people would of thought the same with Boxer when he wasn't showing results, but look at him now he's back in Code S.
Although I think MMA is too different of a sport to compare I dunno if I would consider a starcraft pro an athlete. Different subject ^^
I am looking forward to JDS Vs. Overeem though!!
People don't change skill levels in MMA the way they do in Starcraft, genetic gifts are a HUGE determining factor in terms of whether someone will be successful in MMA or not, and while you can say that genetics matter in SC, it's just not the same.
Not to mention that losing in MMA is actually often dangerous, as losing can come with brain damage and long term damage to your body in general. Not good, I'd rather have someone retire the way Lesnar did than someone like Chuck Liddell did who took knockout after knockout and surely has a lot of brain damage.
On December 31 2011 14:25 HuK wrote: wow retire.... TT i never want to retire in sc2 the same way
I love it when athletes retire with the timing Brock just used. The guy is an ex champion and a monster beast and there is a realization that he can never beat any of the top three guys anymore. He'd have to stick around as a gatekeeper who little to no chance of ever being a champion again. It hurts to see champions go down that road and I really appreciate it when they retire the moment they can't be champions anymore.
yea but he walked into the fight with that mindset, at least think it over after wards and decide how well you can do and whether or not you could improve. dont go into the fight thinking "well if i lose im too tired and ill just quit "
MMA is a different kind of sport man. It's just extremely taxing physically on your body and you have to train months for just 1 fight. Brock is rich and has other means of making money, he was just hoping to use his size advantage and raw power to stay at the top and its clear the new level of HW talent has pushed him aside. Its hard for people to quit MMA because they miss the feeling of getting that KO and their hand raised, guys like Chuck Liddell pretty much could've retired a long time ago but decided to stay and they got continually beaten and KO'd when their time was pretty much over. It takes real courage/strength to retire the way brock did.
On December 31 2011 14:25 HuK wrote: wow retire.... TT i never want to retire in sc2 the same way
I love it when athletes retire with the timing Brock just used. The guy is an ex champion and a monster beast and there is a realization that he can never beat any of the top three guys anymore. He'd have to stick around as a gatekeeper who little to no chance of ever being a champion again. It hurts to see champions go down that road and I really appreciate it when they retire the moment they can't be champions anymore.
yea but he walked into the fight with that mindset, at least think it over after wards and decide how well you can do and whether or not you could improve. dont go into the fight thinking "well if i lose im too tired and ill just quit "
MMA is a different kind of sport man. It's just extremely taxing physically on your body and you have to train months for just 1 fight. Brock is rich and has other means of making money, he was just hoping to use his size advantage and raw power to stay at the top and its clear the new level of HW talent has pushed him aside. Its hard for people to quit MMA because they miss the feeling of getting that KO and their hand raised, guys like Chuck Liddell pretty much could've retired a long time ago but decided to stay and they got continually beaten and KO'd when their time was pretty much over. It takes real courage/strength to retire the way brock did.
I don't know if it was courage on Brock's part lol, he had shown signs of not wanting to be in MMA, and he wasn't one of those guys who would be in the gym 24/7 like Georges St Pierre or Frankie Edgar, Lesnar would only be in the gym when he knew a fight was coming up I'm pretty sure.
On December 31 2011 14:25 HuK wrote: wow retire.... TT i never want to retire in sc2 the same way
I love it when athletes retire with the timing Brock just used. The guy is an ex champion and a monster beast and there is a realization that he can never beat any of the top three guys anymore. He'd have to stick around as a gatekeeper who little to no chance of ever being a champion again. It hurts to see champions go down that road and I really appreciate it when they retire the moment they can't be champions anymore.
yea but he walked into the fight with that mindset, at least think it over after wards and decide how well you can do and whether or not you could improve. dont go into the fight thinking "well if i lose im too tired and ill just quit "
MMA is a different kind of sport man. It's just extremely taxing physically on your body and you have to train months for just 1 fight. Brock is rich and has other means of making money, he was just hoping to use his size advantage and raw power to stay at the top and its clear the new level of HW talent has pushed him aside. Its hard for people to quit MMA because they miss the feeling of getting that KO and their hand raised, guys like Chuck Liddell pretty much could've retired a long time ago but decided to stay and they got continually beaten and KO'd when their time was pretty much over. It takes real courage/strength to retire the way brock did.
I don't know if it was courage on Brock's part lol, he had shown signs of not wanting to be in MMA, and he wasn't one of those guys who would be in the gym 24/7 like Georges St Pierre or Frankie Edgar, Lesnar would only be in the gym when he knew a fight was coming up I'm pretty sure.
Brock was frustrated, he knows he has so much physical potential but there are guys who are extremely experienced in their mma backgrounds than he is. I think Brock knows he can still hang in the sport, perhaps become a HW gatekeeper, I still think hes one of the best in the HW division. So yeah, I do think its a bit of gigantic step to say you will retire. I also think its for the better, Brock has only 3 losses and 5 big wins on paper, 2 of those losses were to top guys, so he's leaving in good standing IMO.
Also I don't think you realize how mentally/physically taxing it is training for a fight, whether or not he's a 24/7er, its clear hes a hard worker in the gym and if that isn't enough, then its safe to consider your options as far as fighting in the future goes.
He gave it his all and it wasn't enough, he realized that and walked away. Anyone dragging on that has never given it their all. Yes I know that's a generalization but you haven't if you rip on someone that tries and say..oh well, I tried, I honestly tried. You, the ripping human, have never obviously tried till your muscles ripped.
That is basically the end of the argument. Either you have and you get it, or you haven't and you don't. I don't see the debate here.
Kinda have to agree with Huk about his retiring. If you go into anything in the wrong frame of mind where you're thinking that if you lose it's over then you've already lost half the battle. There's a mental side and a physical side to everything, especially athletic. And there have been good people that go into a fight already defeated before it starts. Should they retire before putting themselves in further harm and danger, like Chuck Liddell? Yes. But everything should be approached as if it's just another step unlike it's the final step.
And I know.
I do hope he takes care of his family though. He seems to care about them more than anything else and maybe it was the right choice. It's just the frame of mind that gets me. He was probably already defeated before he got in the cage.
On December 31 2011 15:04 Sceptor87 wrote: Kinda have to agree with Huk about his retiring. If you go into anything in the wrong frame of mind where you're thinking that if you lose it's over then you've already lost half the battle. There's a mental side and a physical side to everything, especially athletic. And there have been good people that go into a fight already defeated before it starts. Should they retire before putting themselves in further harm and danger, like Chuck Liddell? Yes. But everything should be approached as if it's just another step unlike it's the final step.
And I know.
I do hope he takes care of his family though. He seems to care about them more than anything else and maybe it was the right choice. It's just the frame of mind that gets me. He was probably already defeated before he got in the cage.
Because obviously you know...a lot about his family.
there's goes the ufc's cash cow. sad to see brock lose, but at least he stayed true to himself in that he realized he wasn't really going to really challenge for the title.
Reem just has way too much practical fight knowledge. Brock is a good athlete, good wrestler, but he really hasn't been able to FIGHT a lot. He can muscle the jits, but when he comes up against other wrestlers as good as him or people that won't let him take it to the ground he is completely out of his element.
Then, take the illness and surgery he had....it honestly takes way longer to recover from that stuff then he took. Throw him in there with somebody as credentialed as 'reem and thats basically throwing him to the sharks. Brock did pretty good all things considered, but I agree it was time for him to get out of the UFC.
On December 31 2011 15:06 unknown.sam wrote: there's goes the ufc's cash cow. sad to see brock lose, but at least he stayed true to himself in that he realized he wasn't really going to really challenge for the title.
The super fast title shot was a 2 edged sword for the UFC. He got up there so fast and always had to fight really good guys and after the Carwin and Cain fight it was pretty clear that he would not really stay a top 5 guy for long. But they had to feed him strong opponents because of his status. Now his last 3 fights looked really bad (he did get the win on Carwin but Carwin beat himself) and there is nothing to gain for him in taking another fight.
On December 31 2011 14:25 HuK wrote: wow retire.... TT i never want to retire in sc2 the same way
I love it when athletes retire with the timing Brock just used. The guy is an ex champion and a monster beast and there is a realization that he can never beat any of the top three guys anymore. He'd have to stick around as a gatekeeper who little to no chance of ever being a champion again. It hurts to see champions go down that road and I really appreciate it when they retire the moment they can't be champions anymore.
yea but he walked into the fight with that mindset, at least think it over after wards and decide how well you can do and whether or not you could improve. dont go into the fight thinking "well if i lose im too tired and ill just quit "
I dunno I don't agree with that. I do think you can think about your career in such a manner in MMA/boxing and I consider it a positive. The way top fighters stick around way longer than they should because they don't think about their careers like that hurts to see sometimes.
ok how about when you can beat some1 in wrestling 1/2 your size you can come back and talk to me about fighting
Beat someone in wrestling half your size? I'm assuming this is a personal reference, because anyone with actual wrestling experience knows that 10 or 15 pounds is enough to tip the scale, especially if you're wrestling someone with the same or better skills and techniques.
The bottom line is Lesnar never truly had a career in MMA. He is 2-1, which by my standards doesn't convey a consistent or good fighter. He isn't clean, technical, and he struggles to show athleticism. For being a Collegiate D1 Heavyweight National Champion and a multiple All American wrestler he doesn't show it. If you look at his tapes from 2000 you can see that he was a lot more coordinated.
It is the same scenario as the Wanderlei, you put on all that weight, the years pile on and you lose all your grace.
The way Velasquez humiliated Lesnar he should have considered retirement at that junction because he would have saved himself the humiliation.
If you want to truly bring a wrestler into UFC or any type of MMA and say HERE is what a wrestler can do (Same concept as Boxing, they bring in Old Head James Toney or other washed up bums to get humiliated) bring in someone of Cael Sanderson's caliber in their prime.
On December 31 2011 14:25 HuK wrote: wow retire.... TT i never want to retire in sc2 the same way
I love it when athletes retire with the timing Brock just used. The guy is an ex champion and a monster beast and there is a realization that he can never beat any of the top three guys anymore. He'd have to stick around as a gatekeeper who little to no chance of ever being a champion again. It hurts to see champions go down that road and I really appreciate it when they retire the moment they can't be champions anymore.
yea but he walked into the fight with that mindset, at least think it over after wards and decide how well you can do and whether or not you could improve. dont go into the fight thinking "well if i lose im too tired and ill just quit "
No this is not true.
Brock knew if this was his last fight he would give it his all. He trained very hard for this fight, no doubt about it. If he didn't win there isn't a point to continue at 35 years old. He won't stick around if he knows he can't win.
He was just completely outclassed by overeem. Overeem had too many offensive weapons to use against Lesnar.
On December 31 2011 15:04 Sceptor87 wrote: Kinda have to agree with Huk about his retiring. If you go into anything in the wrong frame of mind where you're thinking that if you lose it's over then you've already lost half the battle. There's a mental side and a physical side to everything, especially athletic. And there have been good people that go into a fight already defeated before it starts. Should they retire before putting themselves in further harm and danger, like Chuck Liddell? Yes. But everything should be approached as if it's just another step unlike it's the final step.
And I know.
I do hope he takes care of his family though. He seems to care about them more than anything else and maybe it was the right choice. It's just the frame of mind that gets me. He was probably already defeated before he got in the cage.
Because obviously you know...a lot about his family.
Well he retired for them, obviously he cares about them. Any REAL man would care about their family, you nitwit. You're being a real Negative Nancy. A major Debby Downer. What's wrong? I'm listening.
Well actually I'm not, I just want you to shut up and turn that frown upside-down. Thanks.
On December 31 2011 14:25 HuK wrote: wow retire.... TT i never want to retire in sc2 the same way
I love it when athletes retire with the timing Brock just used. The guy is an ex champion and a monster beast and there is a realization that he can never beat any of the top three guys anymore. He'd have to stick around as a gatekeeper who little to no chance of ever being a champion again. It hurts to see champions go down that road and I really appreciate it when they retire the moment they can't be champions anymore.
yea but he walked into the fight with that mindset, at least think it over after wards and decide how well you can do and whether or not you could improve. dont go into the fight thinking "well if i lose im too tired and ill just quit "
No this is not true.
Brock knew if this was his last fight he would give it his all. He trained very hard for this fight, no doubt about it. If he didn't win there isn't a point to continue at 35 years old. He won't stick around if he knows he can't win.
He was just completely outclassed by overeem. Overeem had too many offensive weapons to use against Lesnar.
Yeah, I think he wanted that title shot. He just couldn't protect himself from the assault to the body that Alistair gave him.
On December 31 2011 14:25 HuK wrote: wow retire.... TT i never want to retire in sc2 the same way
I love it when athletes retire with the timing Brock just used. The guy is an ex champion and a monster beast and there is a realization that he can never beat any of the top three guys anymore. He'd have to stick around as a gatekeeper who little to no chance of ever being a champion again. It hurts to see champions go down that road and I really appreciate it when they retire the moment they can't be champions anymore.
yea but he walked into the fight with that mindset, at least think it over after wards and decide how well you can do and whether or not you could improve. dont go into the fight thinking "well if i lose im too tired and ill just quit "
No this is not true.
Brock knew if this was his last fight he would give it his all. He trained very hard for this fight, no doubt about it. If he didn't win there isn't a point to continue at 35 years old. He won't stick around if he knows he can't win.
He was just completely outclassed by overeem. Overeem had too many offensive weapons to use against Lesnar.
Brock gets 400,000 to show, 400,000 to win and i think it's 6% of PPV sales, he makes over 2,000,000 a fight, that is not including the millions he's getting from indorsements ethier. He never cared about fighting in the UFC it was another paycheque for him. Just like his stunt in the WWE, just like his football carear and just like his future carear of w/e he gets into. The man is trolling us all! He was HAND FED opponents to get his name big so that the UFC could capitilize on 1) his size and 2) his fame from the WWE. I'm glad the guy that used to be ranked #1 just because the UFC forced it down people's throats is gone and the dignity of the sport can come back.
On December 31 2011 14:25 HuK wrote: wow retire.... TT i never want to retire in sc2 the same way
I love it when athletes retire with the timing Brock just used. The guy is an ex champion and a monster beast and there is a realization that he can never beat any of the top three guys anymore. He'd have to stick around as a gatekeeper who little to no chance of ever being a champion again. It hurts to see champions go down that road and I really appreciate it when they retire the moment they can't be champions anymore.
yea but he walked into the fight with that mindset, at least think it over after wards and decide how well you can do and whether or not you could improve. dont go into the fight thinking "well if i lose im too tired and ill just quit "
I dunno I don't agree with that. I do think you can think about your career in such a manner in MMA/boxing and I consider it a positive. The way top fighters stick around way longer than they should because they don't think about their careers like that hurts to see sometimes.
ok how about when you can beat some1 in wrestling 1/2 your size you can come back and talk to me about fighting
wow that went from civil disagreement to irrelevant outburst in no time at all.
Unless I'm mistaken, you guys were talking about career choices and not how well you guys personally can fight. I don't see how his fighting ability has anything to do with the discussion at hand
On December 31 2011 14:25 HuK wrote: wow retire.... TT i never want to retire in sc2 the same way
I love it when athletes retire with the timing Brock just used. The guy is an ex champion and a monster beast and there is a realization that he can never beat any of the top three guys anymore. He'd have to stick around as a gatekeeper who little to no chance of ever being a champion again. It hurts to see champions go down that road and I really appreciate it when they retire the moment they can't be champions anymore.
yea but he walked into the fight with that mindset, at least think it over after wards and decide how well you can do and whether or not you could improve. dont go into the fight thinking "well if i lose im too tired and ill just quit "
No this is not true.
Brock knew if this was his last fight he would give it his all. He trained very hard for this fight, no doubt about it. If he didn't win there isn't a point to continue at 35 years old. He won't stick around if he knows he can't win.
He was just completely outclassed by overeem. Overeem had too many offensive weapons to use against Lesnar.
Brock gets 400,000 to show, 400,000 to win and i think it's 6% of PPV sales, he makes over 2,000,000 a fight, that is not including the millions he's getting from indorsements ethier. He never cared about fighting in the UFC it was another paycheque for him. Just like his stunt in the WWE, just like his football carear and just like his future carear of w/e he gets into. The man is trolling us all! He was HAND FED opponents to get his name big so that the UFC could capitilize on 1) his size and 2) his fame from the WWE. I'm glad the guy that used to be ranked #1 just because the UFC forced it down people's throats is gone and the dignity of the sport can come back.
Obvious troll is obvious.
You can't achieve what Brock has achieved by not caring.
As much as I don't like Brock, I won't disrespect him. The man gave it his all and I respect him for that.
On December 31 2011 14:25 HuK wrote: wow retire.... TT i never want to retire in sc2 the same way
I love it when athletes retire with the timing Brock just used. The guy is an ex champion and a monster beast and there is a realization that he can never beat any of the top three guys anymore. He'd have to stick around as a gatekeeper who little to no chance of ever being a champion again. It hurts to see champions go down that road and I really appreciate it when they retire the moment they can't be champions anymore.
yea but he walked into the fight with that mindset, at least think it over after wards and decide how well you can do and whether or not you could improve. dont go into the fight thinking "well if i lose im too tired and ill just quit "
I dunno I don't agree with that. I do think you can think about your career in such a manner in MMA/boxing and I consider it a positive. The way top fighters stick around way longer than they should because they don't think about their careers like that hurts to see sometimes.
ok how about when you can beat some1 in wrestling 1/2 your size you can come back and talk to me about fighting
Beat someone in wrestling half your size? I'm assuming this is a personal reference, because anyone with actual wrestling experience knows that 10 or 15 pounds is enough to tip the scale, especially if you're wrestling someone with the same or better skills and techniques.
The bottom line is Lesnar never truly had a career in MMA. He is 2-1, which by my standards doesn't convey a consistent or good fighter. He isn't clean, technical, and he struggles to show athleticism. For being a Collegiate D1 Heavyweight National Champion and a multiple All American wrestler he doesn't show it. If you look at his tapes from 2000 you can see that he was a lot more coordinated.
It is the same scenario as the Wanderlei, you put on all that weight, the years pile on and you lose all your grace.
The way Velasquez humiliated Lesnar he should have considered retirement at that junction because he would have saved himself the humiliation.
If you want to truly bring a wrestler into UFC or any type of MMA and say HERE is what a wrestler can do (Same concept as Boxing, they bring in Old Head James Toney or other washed up bums to get humiliated) bring in someone of Cael Sanderson's caliber in their prime.
2-1? What? You mean 5-2? Wanderlei fat? What? He just dropped down to MW and is a natural LHW. He lost all his grace because he has been ina a gajillion wars. I don't think you know what you're talking about. Comparing Toney to Lesnar is a joke.
On December 31 2011 14:22 Enki wrote: Lesnar is just terrible, he won't last in the UFC.
Lesnar is far from terrible. The man was on top of the mountain and then he had 2 life saving surgeries. I can't remember the name of the disease but it was a stomach problem that was life threatening if not surgically treated. It's actually amazing that he is even able to get back in the octagon at that level and a testament to his character.
Bottom line is that Brock hasn't looked the same since his first surgery. Don't talk shit on the guy because of it...
On December 31 2011 14:25 HuK wrote: wow retire.... TT i never want to retire in sc2 the same way
I love it when athletes retire with the timing Brock just used. The guy is an ex champion and a monster beast and there is a realization that he can never beat any of the top three guys anymore. He'd have to stick around as a gatekeeper who little to no chance of ever being a champion again. It hurts to see champions go down that road and I really appreciate it when they retire the moment they can't be champions anymore.
yea but he walked into the fight with that mindset, at least think it over after wards and decide how well you can do and whether or not you could improve. dont go into the fight thinking "well if i lose im too tired and ill just quit "
No this is not true.
Brock knew if this was his last fight he would give it his all. He trained very hard for this fight, no doubt about it. If he didn't win there isn't a point to continue at 35 years old. He won't stick around if he knows he can't win.
He was just completely outclassed by overeem. Overeem had too many offensive weapons to use against Lesnar.
Brock gets 400,000 to show, 400,000 to win and i think it's 6% of PPV sales, he makes over 2,000,000 a fight, that is not including the millions he's getting from indorsements ethier. He never cared about fighting in the UFC it was another paycheque for him. Just like his stunt in the WWE, just like his football carear and just like his future carear of w/e he gets into. The man is trolling us all! He was HAND FED opponents to get his name big so that the UFC could capitilize on 1) his size and 2) his fame from the WWE. I'm glad the guy that used to be ranked #1 just because the UFC forced it down people's throats is gone and the dignity of the sport can come back.
Obvious troll is obvious.
You can't achieve what Brock has achieved by not caring.
As much as I don't like Brock, I won't disrespect him. The man gave it his all and I respect him for that.
Give it his all? Do you look into his training methods? his attitude towards the sport? Did you look into his fights at all?
He abused the fact that the other HW's were not as big as him back when he started. He was given a terrible first opponent then given randy couture who weighed a good 60 pounds less than him for a title fight. Randy did damn good against him considering that even but he couldn't compete with a man that big. He was hand fed the title to capitilze on his fame as a WWE star. Then he fought frank mir in which he did the exact same thing. Rushed at him and used his weight/size to bowl him over then sat on him. Next fight he won because shane carwin decided to give it all ontop of him and instead of calling the fight like they should have carwin punched himself out then lesnar laid ontop of him.
Next he fights someone who was 40 pounds lighter than him but was an actual fighter. Someone who actually trains (you ever seen lesnar's training? he has 3 fighters that are "good old friends" and they do not train anything specific for the fights. he litterally just stays in shape and abuses his size) and he got EMBARASSED by cain velasquez. Hell in the training camp for cain pat barry (his main training partner) said that he was disapointed that lesnar "did not let them hit him in the head during training". That alone speaks volumes about how little brock was truly giving into this.
Next, leading up to fights Dana White was getting mad that his #1 draw would spend half his training time off hunting in the wilderness. I wonder how much time other fighters, who are fighting for a living and not collecting pay-cheques off their previous fame, spend at their homes. Hell lesnar doesn't even seek out additional training partners or gyms like the other fighters do. he goes home to his ranch and has fighters come to him to train. He DOES NOT put in 1/2 the effort others do and it showed the moment he fought someone who had skill.
Attitude: "This is what i love, this is where i belong" this is what he said after he beat randy. That all of a sudden after doing the WWE and trying out football (failed laughably) that he had found his calling. Oh I'm sorry after 2 losses that you "lost your calling". That alone to me says he was never taking this seriously.
Point being, this guy was just here to make money off his previous fame and his natural gift of athelticisim. He was never serious about being a fighter, and that truly shows in the way he quits whenever punched in the head. I'm glad he's finnaly gone, the man who was ranked #1 a few months ago got completly shut down by the first couple fighters with skill he fought.
On December 31 2011 17:03 Diamond wrote: Watching the Volkmann interview with Ariel, I was at a bar so I could not hear, what did he say after his fight?
He called out Frankie Edgar and then he stated that he'd like to give Obama a 'glassectomy' which is where you insert a window into someone's stomach so you can see when they have their head up their ass or something like that.
On December 31 2011 17:03 Diamond wrote: Watching the Volkmann interview with Ariel, I was at a bar so I could not hear, what did he say after his fight?
He called out Frankie Edgar and then he stated that he'd like to give Obama a 'glassectomy' which is where you insert a window into someone's stomach so you can see when they have their head up their ass or something like that.
On December 31 2011 14:25 HuK wrote: wow retire.... TT i never want to retire in sc2 the same way
I love it when athletes retire with the timing Brock just used. The guy is an ex champion and a monster beast and there is a realization that he can never beat any of the top three guys anymore. He'd have to stick around as a gatekeeper who little to no chance of ever being a champion again. It hurts to see champions go down that road and I really appreciate it when they retire the moment they can't be champions anymore.
yea but he walked into the fight with that mindset, at least think it over after wards and decide how well you can do and whether or not you could improve. dont go into the fight thinking "well if i lose im too tired and ill just quit "
No this is not true.
Brock knew if this was his last fight he would give it his all. He trained very hard for this fight, no doubt about it. If he didn't win there isn't a point to continue at 35 years old. He won't stick around if he knows he can't win.
He was just completely outclassed by overeem. Overeem had too many offensive weapons to use against Lesnar.
Brock gets 400,000 to show, 400,000 to win and i think it's 6% of PPV sales, he makes over 2,000,000 a fight, that is not including the millions he's getting from indorsements ethier. He never cared about fighting in the UFC it was another paycheque for him. Just like his stunt in the WWE, just like his football carear and just like his future carear of w/e he gets into. The man is trolling us all! He was HAND FED opponents to get his name big so that the UFC could capitilize on 1) his size and 2) his fame from the WWE. I'm glad the guy that used to be ranked #1 just because the UFC forced it down people's throats is gone and the dignity of the sport can come back.
Obvious troll is obvious.
You can't achieve what Brock has achieved by not caring.
As much as I don't like Brock, I won't disrespect him. The man gave it his all and I respect him for that.
Give it his all? Do you look into his training methods? his attitude towards the sport? Did you look into his fights at all?
He abused the fact that the other HW's were not as big as him back when he started. He was given a terrible first opponent then given randy couture who weighed a good 60 pounds less than him for a title fight. Randy did damn good against him considering that even but he couldn't compete with a man that big. He was hand fed the title to capitilze on his fame as a WWE star. Then he fought frank mir in which he did the exact same thing. Rushed at him and used his weight/size to bowl him over then sat on him. Next fight he won because shane carwin decided to give it all ontop of him and instead of calling the fight like they should have carwin punched himself out then lesnar laid ontop of him.
Next he fights someone who was 40 pounds lighter than him but was an actual fighter. Someone who actually trains (you ever seen lesnar's training? he has 3 fighters that are "good old friends" and they do not train anything specific for the fights. he litterally just stays in shape and abuses his size) and he got EMBARASSED by cain velasquez. Hell in the training camp for cain pat barry (his main training partner) said that he was disapointed that lesnar "did not let them hit him in the head during training". That alone speaks volumes about how little brock was truly giving into this.
Next, leading up to fights Dana White was getting mad that his #1 draw would spend half his training time off hunting in the wilderness. I wonder how much time other fighters, who are fighting for a living and not collecting pay-cheques off their previous fame, spend at their homes. Hell lesnar doesn't even seek out additional training partners or gyms like the other fighters do. he goes home to his ranch and has fighters come to him to train. He DOES NOT put in 1/2 the effort others do and it showed the moment he fought someone who had skill.
Attitude: "This is what i love, this is where i belong" this is what he said after he beat randy. That all of a sudden after doing the WWE and trying out football (failed laughably) that he had found his calling. Oh I'm sorry after 2 losses that you "lost your calling". That alone to me says he was never taking this seriously.
Point being, this guy was just here to make money off his previous fame and his natural gift of athelticisim. He was never serious about being a fighter, and that truly shows in the way he quits whenever punched in the head. I'm glad he's finnaly gone, the man who was ranked #1 a few months ago got completly shut down by the first couple fighters with skill he fought.
Doing this for money? Why the fuck would you move to the UFC, when the WWE payroll far far exceeds anything the UFC can pay. Additionally you have to actually get in the octagon and compete against world class MMA fighters.
He used to love the money and lifestyle in the WWE it brought him. Recently and you can tell from his interviews he doesn't care for that any more. He drives a shitty 4 by 4 truck. Is that what you drive when you are an image conscious greedy man as you portray him? The answer is no.
Brock is an alpha male, no doubt. However he is competitive to the very core. That's why he did it. Of course he puts in more than 1/2 the effort others do. You remember that guy Mir? Same weight as Brock (round abouts since he bulked up) the guy who just fucking snapped Big Nogs arm in a slick kimura? Yeah... Brock dominated him... on the ground. How long did Brock train MMA up till that point? A few years. Could you have repeated that feat? Could many people?
No... Brock showed fantastic recovery in the Carwin fight and the ability to scramble half guard while eating bombs? Shows me someone that really did take this seriously. Additionally if as you say it was all a farce for a pay day- why did he enter for round 2 against Carwin? He would have let it end. Mazagati/Yamasaki - forgot which ref it was that time let it continue. Best call of his career.
Brock Lesnar did more in less time than any other MMA fighter (that I can think of) in less time.
Yes he used his size and weight it helped with basing and his TD's and gave him that lethal top game he had. So what if he used his natural advantages? You'd have to be some sort of idiot not to. What did you want him to do? Cut 30 pounds at fight at LHW?
When he fought Randy there was a distinct weight advantage but firstly so what? The HW division was thin as shit. It still is the least talent filled division. Randy accepted the fight- he beat big guys like Gonzaga before. Brock clipped him and Tko'd him - legitimately. He just got offered a HW belt fight early- sure it was early I won't disagree. But what were you honestly expecting? Brock to say no? Agree to fight at a catch-weight of 230 or something? He took the fight and won convincingly.
His 2 'embarassing losses'. Lets see you take a few shots from Cain. After Cain rocked him he needed 41 strikes (iirc) to finish him. That includes knees and G+P. If you are in the sport for a pay day- you don't take that much punishment. You drop and turtle and lose instantly after 4-5 punches.
Overeem- different kind of power. Again- lets see you recover from diverticulitis (colon operation) and then take a few Overeem knees to the body and a left liver kick from the most powerful striker in all of MMA.
*Edit* A guy on a forum I visit just typed this and it really sums up my feelings about the end of the Brock fight.
"I don't think you get what a liver shot feels like. A liver shot is not so much a body shot as a "HOLY **** MY INSIDES ARE EXPLODING" shot. It's probably the single most painful spot you can get hit in on your body (genitals included). You liver is also literally a sack of poison. All the bad shit Brock eats, all the beer and the grease and whatever the hell else he's eating. All of that is filter through his liver. That liver is like a sponge, if you squeeze it (or kick it) it literally explodes toxins back into your blood stream. When this happens your nervous system goes into a sort of shock, your body locks up and you feel the most intense pain you can possible feel. That's not to mention that there are no hard ribs protecting that soft, fleshy sponge full of nerves either. That's why we've seen so many good fighters get KTFO with a shot to the liver. Shit, look at Bas Rutten's entire career. He made a living off of (literally) exploding livers."
This is the HW division- this divison sees more stoppages than any other division. Heavier guys exponentially hit harder but there abilities to absorb punishment don't increase at the same rate with it. Not everyone is blessed with a Nelson/Nog/Hunt (of old) granite chin. Overeem, Carwin and Cain all have serious KO power. These guys can break bones and cause internal bleeding. Brock took it and fought them.
All in all, Brock wanted to be the best. And he stood up and fought some of the worlds best at the time. Everyone doubted him before he began and he beat and fought legit top 10's for most of his stellar yet extremely short career. He didn't have to. If you look at his interviews he always motioned to becoming champion again. He didn't really dwindle on other aspects of MMA. He wanted to be the best - for him self. He did far less media work for the UFC than literally every other fighter except the Diaz brothers. Brock was in this for real- for him self. He joined imo the worlds toughest sport at the age of 30. That will eternally get my respect. I think his heart was in this Overeem fight more than ever. He knew he was going to exit and I believe he's the kind of person that really desperately wanted to go out on a win and have one last crack at the title. Hes 35, he knows he can't put his body through that kind of torture - especially after 2 major operations.
I personally liked watching Brock compete- and I admired his reason for doing so. Brock rocked.
I respect Brock as an athlete and I think he trained really hard during his career, BUT I have to say that his last fights were just downright embarrassing. He did beat Mir, and he did beat Carwin, but seriously wtf is up with him just crumbling and going into fetile position when things don't go his way? Imo, he can't handle MMA. Not the effort, but dealing with the pain, and I could hardly see him ever having enough heart and will to not submit the way machida and nog do. This wasn't the career for him, and I think it was just a competitive outlet. He was always a wrestler, and none of that ever changed while he worked on MMA.
I think it's okay that he retired at this point. I think he learned that this wasn't his passion, that he was only doing this to win.
On December 31 2011 18:07 Itsmedudeman wrote: I respect Brock as an athlete and I think he trained really hard during his career, BUT I have to say that his last fights were just downright embarrassing. He did beat Mir, and he did beat Carwin, but seriously wtf is up with him just crumbling and going into fetile position when things don't go his way? Imo, he can't handle MMA. Not the effort, but dealing with the pain, and I could hardly see him ever having enough heart and will to not submit the way machida and nog do. This wasn't the career for him, and I think it was just a competitive outlet. He was always a wrestler, and none of that ever changed while he worked on MMA.
I think it's okay that he retired at this point. I think he learned that this wasn't his passion, that he was only doing this to win.
He could clearly handle MMA as he beat a lot of top guys... You have a very close minded approach to this sport :/ I will say though that I do think he became a little less passionate as he kept going (but that's judging more by how his interviews went and how much time he started taking off after fights) but I'm sure his illnesses had a lot to do with that. Retiring clearly proves that point but he did a LOT for this sport's popularity in a really short time.
The Reem can now add retiring Lesnar to his long list of accomplishments, next stop the UFC HW title. Reem's all round striking game with his knees and kicks makes him the heavy favourite for me over Dos Santos who is primarily a boxer.
On December 31 2011 18:07 Itsmedudeman wrote: I respect Brock as an athlete and I think he trained really hard during his career, BUT I have to say that his last fights were just downright embarrassing. He did beat Mir, and he did beat Carwin, but seriously wtf is up with him just crumbling and going into fetile position when things don't go his way? Imo, he can't handle MMA. Not the effort, but dealing with the pain, and I could hardly see him ever having enough heart and will to not submit the way machida and nog do. This wasn't the career for him, and I think it was just a competitive outlet. He was always a wrestler, and none of that ever changed while he worked on MMA.
I think it's okay that he retired at this point. I think he learned that this wasn't his passion, that he was only doing this to win.
He could clearly handle MMA as he beat a lot of top guys... You have a very close minded approach to this sport :/ I will say though that I do think he became a little less passionate as he kept going (but that's judging more by how his interviews went and how much time he started taking off after fights) but I'm sure his illnesses had a lot to do with that. Retiring clearly proves that point but he did a LOT for this sport's popularity in a really short time.
I'm saying HE couldn't handle getting beat up. Jesus, just watch his fights. He came back and won against Carwin after his illness, fucking CARWIN. But still, even in that win he curled up into a ball as soon as he took some shots. That and some people heard him say "no no" when Cain started punching him verbally tapping out, and the fact he doesn't take shots to the face in camp? Wtf? NO ONE IN MMA does that. I've NEVER seen anyone in MMA go fetile and look like they've lost all of their fighting spirit after they take a shot to the face with no attempt whatsoever to get back into the fight.
Did a lot for the sport's popularity? What? UFC was huge before brock came here, and it's fighters like Cain, Overeem, and JDS that are making HW a big thing right now.
Overeem vs Lesnar went as expected Brock had no chance to land a take down against someone equally strong. The problem for Brock is that he only has brute strength but he cannot endure punishment so even brute mode is often unavailable and against a guy like Overeem he will get hit. I kinda wanna see him against Mir again because he is much the same regarding how much punishment he can absorb.
JDS vs Overeem is a cool fight though I have no clue who's winning that one.
I really liked the stoppage Fich was out. Johny Hendricks has three "... of the night" awards and decent opponents behind him. I foresee a bright future for me watching him fight and I think he might continue doing well. Learned my lesson counting him out against Fitch.
He was a late, late cut. That's hardly failed miserably considering he made it through training camp, and two rounds of cuts. Thats far more then the vast majority of people make it even after intending to go into football.
On January 01 2012 11:01 Mortality wrote: Brock was cut from football for starting fights is what I've heard. IIRC he also sacked a QB during a scrimmage, which is a nono.
Nate blew me away in the Takanori Gomi match.. and this match wow, sooo good! Really happy to see the ubereem landing some uberknees! Can't wait for the Reem vs JDS ! Will be good!
On January 01 2012 11:01 Mortality wrote: Brock was cut from football for starting fights is what I've heard. IIRC he also sacked a QB during a scrimmage, which is a nono.
Sounds like a bunch of BS to me. Source?
Yeah, I wouldn't believe everything you hear. Unless he can come up with a reliable source I doubt that ever happened lmao.
Anyway, very happy with how all the fights went down. Great card overall.
On December 31 2011 13:57 acrimoneyius wrote: "They delivered on what we expected to be...fight of the night"
Mike Goldberg is such a dumbass sometimes.
I can understand that it wasn't your thing. But Diaz really fought awesome. Also remember we are not the primary focus for the UFC, the people who know a little more... UFC tries to sell, and 2 guys punching the shit out of each other (Or rather Diaz punching the shit out of Ceronne) is what the casual fans want to see.
On January 01 2012 11:01 Mortality wrote: Brock was cut from football for starting fights is what I've heard. IIRC he also sacked a QB during a scrimmage, which is a nono.
Wrong and wrong. He was cut cause he didn't take instruction as well as some other people, and being brand new at football the object is not always get the QB.
And it was a pre-season game, which is hardly a random scrimmage. Hardly a nono.
Just watched the fight between Alistair and Brock. All I saw was Alistair hitting Brock where he had his surgery. I know someone that after he had his apendics removed @ ~40 years had to not lift any weights for like 6 months, or else he'd be in pain. And I mean 3 kilograms or so.
Edit: clearly a mismatch, Alistair dominated him way too much.
On January 02 2012 21:10 Mondieu wrote: Just watched the fight between Alistair and Brock. All I saw was Alistair hitting Brock where he had his surgery. I know someone that after he had his apendics removed @ ~40 years had to not lift any weights for like 6 months, or else he'd be in pain. And I mean 3 kilograms or so.
Edit: clearly a mismatch, Alistair dominated him way too much.
On January 02 2012 21:10 Mondieu wrote: Just watched the fight between Alistair and Brock. All I saw was Alistair hitting Brock where he had his surgery. I know someone that after he had his apendics removed @ ~40 years had to not lift any weights for like 6 months, or else he'd be in pain. And I mean 3 kilograms or so.
Edit: clearly a mismatch, Alistair dominated him way too much.
Would you say Hendricks vs Fitch was a mismatch ?
It could honestly be the case that Brock post-surgery is nothing compared to what he was pre. Surgery like that might not only weaken and drain him physically but also remove any psychological strength he had.
Despite the hype, after the performances against Carwin and Cain, you really would have to say that Overeem was mismatched against him...or at least just the harshest and least winnable opponent Lesnar could have fought. Brock should have gone up against a lower ranked HW at least twice or three times, but not like that would have been great anyway. I think, post-surgery, he was probably destined to quit and on the way out, sadly enough.
On December 31 2011 13:57 acrimoneyius wrote: "They delivered on what we expected to be...fight of the night"
Mike Goldberg is such a dumbass sometimes.
I can understand that it wasn't your thing. But Diaz really fought awesome. Also remember we are not the primary focus for the UFC, the people who know a little more... UFC tries to sell, and 2 guys punching the shit out of each other (Or rather Diaz punching the shit out of Ceronne) is what the casual fans want to see.
Doing this for money? Why the fuck would you move to the UFC, when the WWE payroll far far exceeds anything the UFC can pay. Additionally you have to actually get in the octagon and compete against world class MMA fighters.
He used to love the money and lifestyle in the WWE it brought him. Recently and you can tell from his interviews he doesn't care for that any more. He drives a shitty 4 by 4 truck. Is that what you drive when you are an image conscious greedy man as you portray him? The answer is no.
the only way the WWE "far far exceeds anything the UFC can pay" is if you are on the road 52 weeks a year working a grueling schedule.
you know the kind of schedule Owen Hart, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, and Rick Rude endured.
how are they doing with their tonnes of cash these days any how?
just watched the fight, those kind of kicks cand cause organ rupture coming from overeem, i was kind of shocked to hear he came back to fighting after complicated surgery.
loved the diaz vs cowboy fight, that cowboy ate up so many knuckles
Brock was entertaining. He was somewhere between a freakshow and a legitimate competitor in a weight class that doesn't require a tremendous amount of skill to have some success at. Compared to other horrible publicity stunts like James Toney and Kimbo I think his career was ultimately positive for MMA.
I seriously wonder if the UFC will pick up Bobby Lashley now, despite how hilariously awful he is. Or maybe Batista, wasn't he going to fight in SF? I don't think they are above it anymore. Who knows, maybe next TUF will be Lashley vs Batista. These are the types of MMA sins Takada died for on NYE
Doing this for money? Why the fuck would you move to the UFC, when the WWE payroll far far exceeds anything the UFC can pay. Additionally you have to actually get in the octagon and compete against world class MMA fighters.
He used to love the money and lifestyle in the WWE it brought him. Recently and you can tell from his interviews he doesn't care for that any more. He drives a shitty 4 by 4 truck. Is that what you drive when you are an image conscious greedy man as you portray him? The answer is no.
the only way the WWE "far far exceeds anything the UFC can pay" is if you are on the road 52 weeks a year working a grueling schedule.
you know the kind of schedule Owen Hart, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, and Rick Rude endured.
how are they doing with their tonnes of cash these days any how?
That's not the case. Brock didn't love the lifestyle; he was in it for the money as he was pushed right from the start based off his look/frame and NCAA background. Everything Vince looks for in a wrestler.
There are very and I mean very few wrestlers on their roster that make shitloads of money. Same with the UFC. If you aren't a top guy and maintain your status you have zero leverage and won't make a whole lot of money in the UFC. It's the nature of both businesses. Both will take a major toll on your body especially if your one of the top dogs. That's why they receive the bank. A Legends contract in the WWE certainly has its benefits though.
Alistair Overeem: Suspended until Feb. 14; no contest until Jan. 30 for cuts on right eye
Brock Lesnar: Must have abdominal injury cleared by a doctor or no contest until June 28
Nate Diaz: Must be cleared by an ophthalmologist or no contest until June 28; minimum suspension, no contest until Jan. 30; no contact until Jan. 21 for right eye injury
Donald Cerrone: Suspended until Feb. 14; no contact until Jan. 30 for cut on lower lip
Jon Fitch: Suspended until Feb.29; no contest until Feb. 14
Alexander Gustafsson: Suspended until Jan. 30; no contact until Jan. 21 for right tibia contusion
Vladimir Matyushenko: Must have left knee cleared by an orthopedic doctor or no contest until June 28; minimum suspension, no contest until Feb. 14; no contact until Jan. 30
Nam Phan: Suspended until Feb. 29; no contact until Feb. 14 for cut on right eyebrow
Junior Assuncao: Suspended until Jan. 30; no contact until Jan. 21 for cut on right cheek
Dong Hyun Kim: Suspended until Jan. 30; no contact until Jan. 21 for left foot contusion
Diego Nunes: Suspended until Feb. 14; no contact until Jan. 30 for cut on left eye
Manny Gamburyan: Must have right shoulder x-rayed and cleared by an orthopedic doctor or no contest until June 28; minimum suspension, no contest until Jan. 30; no contact until Jan. 21
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.mmaconvert.com/wp-content/uploads/post-images/ufc_141_poster.jpg)
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