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Also need to take into account the rate of improvement Eric Gordon showed. That said Wins Produced is still being used? :/
There are so many shit stats floating around these days. PER, WP, RAPM(absolutely horrible unless you've got years of +/- numbers).
Also you never want to compare Eric Gordon to the average shooting guard, because at worst those stats tell us he is average at everything every shooting guard can do which is still extremely valuable. Checking his stats in a median value would tell us much more where he lies in relation to everyone else (which is still high).
That said I only think the Clippers gave up too much because it was Eric Gordon + a ton of assets, not because Eric Gordon is anywhere close to the level of Chris Paul. I also found it astonishing the author is still trumping on about tall players(Centers) being more valuable than point guards because of supply, but fails to understand that skill set trumps all. Height is irrelevant if you can't impact the game in multiple ways. Miami, Chicago, Dallas, OKC - the final 4 teams all got far with their perimeter players being major components to success. You'd think after 30 years of watching perimeter players like MJ, Bird, Magic, Wade, Lebron, Kobe, Iverson, and PFs with range and passing ability like Duncan and KG dominate the league people would get it. Only terrible GMs and Andrew Bynum think height = winnning when that hasn't been the case for ages now.
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@Ace I want to kiss you on the mouth
Concerning Wins Produced. I think I just have a problem with all of these stats swinging the regression hammer all around. Given all that data, analysts are just looking for coeffients to fit. But with so many variables, there must be dozens upon dozens of coeffient sets that fit the problem. And the fluid and team-oriented nature of basketball makes it even harder to control. I think this is why the Statistical Basketball or ABR community has all these things like PER and WP and WS and adjusted +/-.
In baseball, there is so much extreme control due to batter and pitcher that we can draw out OBP, BABIP, FIP etc etc. So even if you hate WAR or wOBA, most people have a similar understanding of player value.
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Ohhhh so excited to see my beloved Celts crush Melo/Amare on opening day. XFingers
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@Ace. Exactly what I was thinking...
the problem with the Clippers trade is that it seems their whole package was a little too much for the non-existent bidding war. Unless the Warriors offered Curry, they didn't really have anyone that might offer a better package than them, yet they still managed to give up everything NO asked for.
There is a skill involved in owners/GMs knowing when to play hardball and when to jump on the best offer you will get while it is still there, and the Clippers seemed to miss on this one.
No doubt Clippers won with paul though, he is the best player in the trade and brings a winning attitude to a team on the rise.
Also you never want to compare Eric Gordon to the average shooting guard, because at worst those stats tell us he is average at everything every shooting guard can do which is still extremely valuable. Checking his stats in a median value would tell us much more where he lies in relation to everyone else (which is still high).
brought a smile to my face btw, right on!
I also found it astonishing the author is still trumping on about tall players(Centers) being more valuable than point guards because of supply, but fails to understand that skill set trumps all. Height is irrelevant if you can't impact the game in multiple ways. Miami, Chicago, Dallas, OKC - the final 4 teams all got far with their perimeter players being major components to success. You'd think after 30 years of watching perimeter players like MJ, Bird, Magic, Wade, Lebron, Kobe, Iverson, and PFs with range and passing ability like Duncan and KG dominate the league people would get it. Only terrible GMs and Andrew Bynum think height = winnning when that hasn't been the case for ages now.
Yup again. I agree with you but I can also see what the author was trying to get at. He is saying (I would think) that centers are more valuable at present times because of the lack of supply of centers. We have both agreed that Howard is the best center in the league, yet his skill can't really be compared to some previous great centers. Even so, he is the only real center at this time that a championship team would be looking to build around, which kind of proves his point.
But even so, your statement is correct. height is irrelevant without the skills, which is prob why more teams are interested in trading for the Lakers' 30-year-old Gasol than the 24-year-old Bynum  .
edit:clarity
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I'm still not sold on Bynum either. I don't understand how he keeps getting overrated to the point of being a top 5, and even TOP 3 Center in the league. Boggles my mind.
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Big market, big exposure I guess.
When centers like Gasol, Bogut and Howard exist, he can never be top 3, as long as Camby and Duncan don't retire, he won't be top 5 :p. But all of those come from small-med markets.
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Ya, like last year I would have argued that he was a top 5 center in terms of potential upside but I mean that can't really be said anymore lol. Nor would I agree with it anymore really. Too many question marks with him.
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Clippers gonna be so fun to watch!
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refs delaying end of preseason game by checking video replay .. lol
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how good you guys think kyrie irving is gonna be in the league in the coming future?
sometimes its hard to gauge how good a player is gonna be in the league, regardless of how good they were in college. theres so many cases of really good players in college that end up losing their shine once they hit the league
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Wow, Jeff Green is out for the entire season, he has to undergo heart surgery :\
http://www.nba.com/2011/news/12/17/celtics-green.ap/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2
Hope he'll be able to return to the NBA!
On December 18 2011 03:02 BlueRoyaL wrote:
how good you guys think kyrie irving is gonna be in the league in the coming future?
sometimes its hard to gauge how good a player is gonna be in the league, regardless of how good they were in college. theres so many cases of really good players in college that end up losing their shine once they hit the league
I think he'll do well, he's probably gonna take the ROTY and have a good season with the Cavs. Given how bad the state of that team was he's going to get a ton of playing time and a lot of things to do, which will lead to him having a nice statline and everything that comes with it.
He'll probably stay the "stand-out" player in Cleveland for the next couple of years, unless they tank hard this season and get a high pick for the 2012 draft :p
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knicks running amare-melo-chandler, pretty scary
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United States22883 Posts
On December 18 2011 04:17 a176 wrote:
knicks running amare-melo-chandler, pretty scary
It'll be exciting on offense, but one great defensive center doesn't make up for defensive deficiencies at the other positions and D'antonio definitely won't be able to coach it. Plus their bench is miserable.
Assuming no injuries, it's like a conference semifinals team. Maybe conference finals team, at best.
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conference wise, boston would be only the team they would have to worry about as far as defense is concerned -_-
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On December 18 2011 04:33 a176 wrote:
conference wise, boston would be only the team they would have to worry about as far as defense is concerned -_-
Uhm.. what? Pardon me, if I've misunderstood, but did you mean divisions? Or did you mean the entire Eastern Conference (because both Miami & Chicago played better defense than Boston last season)?
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On December 18 2011 05:31 VENDIZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2011 04:33 a176 wrote:
conference wise, boston would be only the team they would have to worry about as far as defense is concerned -_- Uhm.. what? Pardon me, if I've misunderstood, but did you mean divisions? Or did you mean the entire Eastern Conference (because both Miami & Chicago played better defense than Boston last season)?
yea sry division :p
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On December 18 2011 04:29 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2011 04:17 a176 wrote:
knicks running amare-melo-chandler, pretty scary It'll be exciting on offense, but one great defensive center doesn't make up for defensive deficiencies at the other positions and D'antonio definitely won't be able to coach it. Plus their bench is miserable. Assuming no injuries, it's like a conference semifinals team. Maybe conference finals team, at best.
He also doesn't have the PG or the shooters to really succeed in his offense...plus he's going to run amare into the ground with this shortened schedule.
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im excited to watch the kings, even though its still a preseason game
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On December 18 2011 11:16 KOFgokuon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2011 04:29 Jibba wrote:On December 18 2011 04:17 a176 wrote:
knicks running amare-melo-chandler, pretty scary It'll be exciting on offense, but one great defensive center doesn't make up for defensive deficiencies at the other positions and D'antonio definitely won't be able to coach it. Plus their bench is miserable. Assuming no injuries, it's like a conference semifinals team. Maybe conference finals team, at best. He also doesn't have the PG or the shooters to really succeed in his offense...plus he's going to run amare into the ground with this shortened schedule.
But David Berri says Landry Fields is the most productive player in the league!
But yeah, they really need a ball handler in that offense and I don't really see one.
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On December 18 2011 12:43 slyboogie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2011 11:16 KOFgokuon wrote:On December 18 2011 04:29 Jibba wrote:On December 18 2011 04:17 a176 wrote:
knicks running amare-melo-chandler, pretty scary It'll be exciting on offense, but one great defensive center doesn't make up for defensive deficiencies at the other positions and D'antonio definitely won't be able to coach it. Plus their bench is miserable. Assuming no injuries, it's like a conference semifinals team. Maybe conference finals team, at best. He also doesn't have the PG or the shooters to really succeed in his offense...plus he's going to run amare into the ground with this shortened schedule. But David Berri says Landry Fields is the most productive player in the league! But yeah, they really need a ball handler in that offense and I don't really see one.
Perhaps Baron Davis will show up in NYC in the near future (given he goes down in salary)?
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EPT
